So let's make the letter about "cheating" so that whatever slim chance there was of Blizzard actually addressing it will be completely gone or replaced with stupid examples of actions taken by blizz against exploits and other irrelevant stuff. I think people need to get over their ego and i'm not talking about streamers only...
Sarcasm wins all debates right? It doesn't have to be aimed at "cheating" but the problems lay within the parameters of 'third-party software'. So the letter these 26 pillars of the community wrote could be written in that direction. It's not, because most of the signatories are third-party software users. Blizzard could even make an arguement that a website that times CoE is considered to be TPS. Not likely, but the arguement could be made, which would basically wipe the leaderboards completely.
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I have to say though, while they haven't addressed the botting issue as quickly as we'd all hope, fixing and punishing those involved in the Hellfire exploit shows they care. Acting as though it's irrelevant is childish. It was within thier power to do. Which logically speaks to the fact that they don't have a final solution to the bot problem. Would you prefer random bans to people who play more than 8 hours a day?
It doesn't make sense to include Thud in this letter because as you said, almost if not all of the people who signed the letter actually use Thud (Including me, back when i used to play D3). It's too good to give up on while still not breaking the game imo. It's very different from botting, it's more like a reaction to Blizzard's horrible hard-coded UI implementation in D3. The lack of modding support is just really bad and the fact that people have Thud to compensate that is actually a good thing in my view. If Blizzard just works on a better minimap to include things like champion / elite packs that you have already encountered, then they could also make it so you can't read the minimap portion of the game off of the client's memory somehow... I think if Thud didn't have the maphack then it would have been more legit and awesome but the fact that it has some sort of a maphack makes its validity go down by quite a bit.
This letter is about botting and botting is what the people who signed the letter, think that is the worst thing that is happening to the game. I'm glad so many people care about this issue and come to voice their opinion but i really don't understand why you have to disagree with something just because it doesn't fulfill your expectations by 100%... I think we as players in general are a bit spoiled and this attitude of all or nothing is actually pretty bad for us because i think that if this letter would have gained more support and less criticism because people are not satisfied with the fact that it doesn't address other things (that are unrelated imo, thud is unrelated to botting and is not the main issue here), then it would have had more chances at actually creating a change or forcing Blizzard to react, possibly in a bit of a more rushed manner (rushed doesn't have to be bad, just mobilizing resources to a certain direction).
It's hard for people especially mods on this forum to please everyone. It's also hard to argue with 20 different people when it's one mod versus dozens of newcomers or old timers that are all arguing the same points over and over, often without reading what the mods have had to say in previous posts. It's also really stupid in my opinion how some people are offended by the claim that whoever is opposed to this letter is probably a botter because it's just a logical assumption and really, what did you expect? I think people need to lay off a bit and try to focus on the main issue here and that is the fact that D3 is turning into a complete bot fest and if you don't think it's true then i think you are either fooling yourself or just unaware of the magnitude of the problem.
TL:DR: I botted, i used Thud / D3helper whatever and i am in favor of all of those being limited and completely removed but some features of Thud need to stay until Blizzard implements UI modding support. Botting is the main issue here and diverting the focus from the main issue towards lesser issues like Thud is effectively a disservice to the community as a whole because expecting Thud to become "illegal" is simply unrealistic according to what we have seen in the past, and that does not apply to botting therefore this letter receives my (humble ) endorsement.
thud is cheating. flat out. you saying it provides features that shouldve been there is like a botter saying blizzard shouldve allowed innate automated playing and looting. like...what??? what are you even thinking?? cheaters saying the cheat is acceptable EXCEPT FOR THE MAPHACK PORTION because it shouldve been there? wow...just wow.
I didn't read everything, because everyone is repeating their opinion and not staying on target.
D3 is a game, that generates money. Money, which will only be generated, if people are playing it.
--> Will the majority of the actual player base quit the game because some enthusiastic players are botting? No. Will they cry about it? Yes.
--> Will the majority of the actual player base (including botters) quit, when blizzard decides to do smth against botters? Yes. Will a lot of innocent players be negatively affected by blizzards actions? Yes. Does Blizzard want to earn a lot of money? Yes.
Whatever you guys think, no matter how many words are written in this thread and how many of you wish for botters to be banned:
Blizzard is not going to harm their business. Botters will always be there. That's how it works now.
blizzard doesnt earn money on a per player basis. diablo isnt a subscription based game. they earn money from people buying the game not playing it. banning all bots would actually INCREASE their business as a portion of the botters would buy more copies (gaby for example).
thud is cheating. flat out. you saying it provides features that shouldve been there is like a botter saying blizzard shouldve allowed innate automated playing and looting. like...what??? what are you even thinking?? cheaters saying the cheat is acceptable EXCEPT FOR THE MAPHACK PORTION because it shouldve been there? wow...just wow.
Amen brother. Amen.
The logic from the THUD supporters in this thread is simply astounding. "THUD is everything the DIablo 3 HUD should have been." Well, it isn't and THUD is software from a third party, so hmmmmm, why did that REALLY get left out of the letter. I wonder....
I could probably start off by insulting everyone, pointing out their hypocrisy.
Telling people that they are the ones that are stupid and wrong.
But I won't, because that won't get us anywhere.
So I have been on the site and around the community for a while, hiding in the shadows.
Been playing Diablo since the since the first times I tried it out at my friends house way back in the days of yore.
Seeing how the games have morphed and evolved with their communities while mostly minding my own buisness and having fun.
And there are many ways that a person can enjoy their time with these games.
My friends don't enjoy the game the same way I do, they all play for a different reason.
Because somewhere in this game there is something that speaks to us all.
But some of you have seem to have forgotten something fundamental.
It's just a game. That you hopefully play in the way that makes it enjoyable to you.
So do the botters. They are not here to ruin your game, they have their own varied reasons to play the way they do.
The real problem is that with leaderboards Blizz tried to make the game competitive.
But this system is imperfect in so many ways, it mainly rewards how many hours you put into the game.
The playing field is unbalanced between many factors because of this, any player that plays less than another player is at an inherent disadvantage.
No matter how their respective skill levels pan out. This of course tilts the basic playing field in favor of anyone who plays the game for a living.
They are a limited bunch, and this is great for them. They know thair competition and they can battle it out for rank 1 one without too many upsets.
But with bots, anyone can wipe away that playtime advantage and unfortunatly introduce their own level imbalances. This is great for anyone willing to take the risk. If we banned every player who uses a bot today we would just fuck over a bunch of players that have nothing to do with the situation
and make sure that anyone who can spend their days playing is the one that wins by default.
Why are we not asking for more? Why are not telling Blizzard that they should improve the game instead of crying out for them to ruin the enjoyment of others? It makes no sense. Why don't we act progressive instead and ask for a better system where everyone can enjoy themselves?
In the end, a more balanced playingfield will make the game a lot better. And more people can foces on becoming better players in order to compete on the leaderboards. I mean, you don't usually compare someone driving a car to someone who runs by foot. But neither do we say that you can't drive a car because some people think it's lazy. Do most drivers use their car to ruin the days of pedestrians? Doubt it.
So how about we ask for a system the incentivises becoming more skilled at the game rather than just grinding for numerical advantages.
The good players should be crying out for this instead of pressing their time advantage to it's extremes. If they truly are great at this game then they have nothing to fear. Sadly it seems that they do fear increased levels of competition when they cannot rely on their hours of gear and paragon grinding. But hey, prove me wrong! Ask blizzard to cap paragons when entering a ranked Grift, to treat all stat rolls as if maxed. Perhaps even have a couple of standard handmade maps with separate leaderboards. Make it different. Cut away the bullshit from the competition and let people run unranked Grifts as we know them today with unlimited power levels to see how far the system can pushed.
If everyone can start competing after a few hours of play time the cream will still rise to the top and we will see new great players emerging to compete and have a great time. But hey that's just one suggestion, there are probably hundreds more thet we can come up with.
If you really care about the game, don't go after people who play it the way they enjoy it. Ask Blizzard make a it a better game where more people can go to have their fun. And really, if someone who doesn't do anything against you. Why would you care how they play the game? Well I know why, but that's a whole different story.
Thank you for your time!
And no I have not botted in any Diablo.
/Eckshale
kumbaya my friend. kumbaya.
because diablo as a series has always been about the grind. that's inherent.
you're right, everyone deserves to get their fun out of the game. but everyone who plays agreed to the eula/tos. so they should be punished for breaking it. also, some people find their fun by climbing the leaderboards. dont they deserve to do so fairly? if you're against banning botters because they deserve to have fun that way, then blizz would have to create some kind of botting-allowed server or botting-allowed leaderboards for season and non-season. this and making the game not grind-dependent are way too drastic of a change, so were left with ban all cheaters.
I'm totally not saying that I personally think everyone on the leaderboards is a bot either. Sorry if it came across like that. Again, tbh I don't really pay all that much attention to the leaderboards.
But from what I'm hearing, I'd assume at least "some" are. And even some does kinda suck. Totally not trying to point the finger at everyone or anyone in particular, just saying that I agree botting/using whatever kinda cheat is lame and that something should be done about it and that I believe that Blizzard will eventually get around to it.
I'm pretty sure the peeps on the leaderboards are doing waaay better than 65. It seems like 75+ is the sorta stuff that gets you on leaderboards. At least that's what it seems from the videos I see. If it means anything, I meant 65 on 4 man multiplayer. Solo just about 55-57ish.
It is true that turbo hud should become standard d3 hud. The point is
that if anyone (every d3 player) used turbohub the game would be better experience for everyone.
False, this is a common subjective statement that only voices your personal opinion.
D3 do not support any modifications for a reason, regardless of UI limitations D3 has a very simple gameplay.
Wether its called addons it WoW, or cheats in Diablo3 they are all tools of convenience, their main purpose is to make certain aspects simpler.
Unlike WoW Diablo 3 does not need an enhanced UI or a number of 3.rd party apps to be good or simple enough for anyone.
It is more important to keep it restricted and equal for all to maintain some integrity around the competetive goals of leaderboards&seasons.
It is true that turbo hud should become standard d3 hud. The point is
that if anyone (every d3 player) used turbohub the game would be better experience for everyone.
False, this is a common subjective statement that only voices your personal opinion.
D3 do not support any modifications for a reason, regardless of UI limitations D3 has a very simple gameplay.
Wether its called addons it WoW, or cheats in Diablo3 they are all tools of convenience, their main purpose is to make certain aspects simpler.
Unlike WoW Diablo 3 does not need an enhanced UI or a number of 3.rd party apps to be good or simple enough for anyone.
It is more important to keep it restricted and equal for all to maintain some integrity around the competetive goals of leaderboards&seasons.
thanks now i dont have to respond to that false, false statement. i agree.
Yeah. Bcs why should I not beat Federer at tennis. I mean, this sport is so stupid It rewards him for putting more time in it. Damn stupid sport. Giving me equal chance to beat anyone no matter how much they practiced is what is perfect about chess. or any sport...
This isn't relevant. If you put as much time into tennis as Federer did, but he used steroids, then it would be comparable.
Yeah its cheating bcs of the rules and because it give you an advantage over players that do not use it. However it is not even similar to botting. It is true that turbo hud should become standard d3 hud. The point is that if anyone (every d3 player) used turbohub the game would be better experience for everyone.
Conclusion : Improved HUD makes the game better,
Bots : make the game worse.
Both are cheats. One should not be if blizzard did their job right. It should be normal d3 hud.
Your statement contradicts itself. If it's cheating and against the rules, then how would everybody using it make the game better? In the same point, how does botting not follow the same logical steps? (If everybody was botting, that levels the playing field for everybody), Agreed the UI could use an upgrade, but, to the point where I never take a wrong turn, I never stop to fight an elite pack long enough to figure out if I want to skip it? By that logic, the reverse is also possible, if everybody didn't use it (every d3 player) then it would improve the game. See how that works?
There are, at this time, soooo many fundamental things wrong with this game. They have made the game into what appears to be a huge invitation to botters/cheaters. We can't all act like this is the only game where botting happens, or where people use 3rd party programs or add-ons for an advantage, right?
A major issue here is that a leaderboard was introduced to the game. And people who want to compete/stay on top have to play near 24 hours a day or bot. Because of the stat advantage of high paragons (people argue about the stats not being huge but to each their own), and the pretty much requirement to play in a full group 100% of the time with it being 100% optimized. My guess is that they wanted to make group play have an appeal, but made it the ONLY way to play the game to stay competitive unless you bot/hack/cheat.
Blizzard has evolved the game into a mindless paragon grind being the endgame. I usually play the first few weeks then I'm done every season because loot is too easily obtained (again this is just my opinion, and we all have one), and then once you have your set together there is NOTHING TO DO except endless paragon grind for those stats. So, in order to get all those paragon levels up there for those stats, you must play non-stop, in a full group, optimized for max xp all the time (or hack/bot/exploit/cheat). Until they make the game more of a level playing field, leaderboards are a complete joke. There has to be more of a constant in my opinion. Take away the NEED or INCENTIVE to bot/cheat. If there is no advantage to hitting paragon 4000000 in a season then people wouldn't care about reaching it. Paragon cap? Random captcha upon entering a rift? I don't know right off the top of my head, and I don't work for Blizzard but SOMETHING needs to change. I feel like I've been in a multiple-year beta with this game.
When I play a game, I like to see re-playability. After a few weeks of obtaining pretty much all the gear needed to play the only viable spec the class has to offer, I see no reason to playing a season after that. (Unless you want those endless paragons......yay)
People may cry or whine about how vanilla was, but it was the best state of the game in my opinion. Early on, the market hadn't yet been flooded with gear onto the horrible auction house setup. Hardcore wasn't full of bots grinding hard content to obtain higher item level gear because it wasn't easy mode endless paragon grinding. People rage/whine quit the game because they couldn't get past the act1-2, 2-3/4 wall. But, there was that feel of progression, difficulty, accomplishment when you could make your way through to Diablo on inferno difficulty and the encounter was epic feeling. Today, gear rains from the sky and you get blood shards to gamble with to fulfill peoples' instant gratification, and then...everything in the game is insta-killed up to and including all of the Torment levels.
As far as turbohud, they need to make a decision about what is and isn't allowed. It does give an advantage over those who do not use it. Just like multi-boxing gives advantages over people who don't. With leaderboards, ya kinda need to have some constants in place. If someone is multi-boxing, they get the well-known, overpowered party xp buff, way more loot etc. etc. How is that even close to not being an advantage? How is it not an advantage that people using Turbohud can see things that people who don't use it out of fear of being banned, can't?
Been away for a bit and there are some varied reactions so far. Here's my severe tirade.
Blizzard needs to seriously consider integrating botting and thud into their software. Then there will be absolutely no need to invest time or resources to ensure integrity when everyone has the same tos approved tools at their disposal. Also it would behoove them to have an extraterritorial legalese document that allows them to appropriate any tool that arguably has an effect on gameplay. SweetFX? It would perpetually evolve into this hideous amalgamation of chode and detritus. Ever reducing the need for slavish input. Think Akira. I, for one, can not wait... Alternatively, Blizzard can punch some people really hard. Make it painful and public. But keep it classy. Borderline draconian. Don't stop at botting though. If the message is indifference can't truly expect something else in return.
And wasn't one of the selling points of "always online", the integrity? Or was it community? Serious question. I'd rather have modding, with botting and thud rather than only the latter two... Too self-righteous?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"We", "Everyone" - Argumentum ad populum. "You people" - Argumentum ad hominem. "Your dumb" - Contractionem absum.
This thread is hilarious. Ban botters and they will come back. Botting is free. Seasons wipe everything. They will just come back next season.
Any microscopic edge that can be obtained will be obtained by those who wish to compete. No matter what. "Cheating" can never be fixed ever. It comes with the territory when 'competition' is involved. Someone will ALWAYS find a way. You don't have to like it, but alas, that is the world we live in.
Is that why you didn't sign? At least if you're going to cheat, you're not hypocritical about it, right? Though speaking out about using TPS, when you're using TPS, kinda defeats the purpose. Many quotes have included, "I cheat because I have to, I cheat because everybody else does, I cheat because it's too good. I cheat because I'll never get caught, I cheat because your breath smells like kitty litter." All ridiculous claims, none of which are substantiated. People seem to think that by making these claims, that they are somehow crusaders of a cause. That thier cheating is justified. Something is lost in this ideal that two wrongs make 3 rights, and 2 lefts, why not? If we're just making it up as we go along... Why not go the full forty?
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Though you've provided snapshotted proof of others cheating, there are plenty of snapshots of you doing so as well. Glass house... Stones... Throwing...
The letter is still about giving someone “the automated control of a character in a Game”. And you seem trying to justify botting just because its also a violation to the EULA like Thud. But thats a poor point. If two guys spent 5 years in prison; one for raping a kid and the other for a bank robbery, are they the same scum because they both spent 5 years in prison? I'd say no.
Please be clearer on your reference. Convicted Felon is a Convicted Felon, and those who sympathize are considered a vulnerable sector. Your logic can also apply to the idea that, because a man robbed a bank, he is willing to break the law given the opportunity. As such, he can be treated the same as your first example, because he is willing to break the rules, what rules is he going to break? If you don't abide by the law, you make a choice. Choices have consequences.
I never said we are 100 % legit or that none of use uses turbohud. I actually said that more than 9 out of 10 top players does use it. Which indirectly means that there is over 90 % chance that anyone I play with also uses it.
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I chose to not sign the letter, because yes, I do use TurboHUD and who am I to justify if TurboHUD is more or less against the EULA than botting. I think it's wrong to say: "Hey, you can use this but not this". I think, even if you play like gabynator 16 hours a day and bot last 8, if you were told not to use TurboHUD you'd have less chance of getting top ranks than the other way around. I think TurboHUD is at least as powerfull as botting. But I think its a necessity, since the in-game UI is so crap that you can't see more than half of your buffs.
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I have nothing against people using TurboHUD, it's rather stupid if they don't and wanna have a chance being competitive.
"More than 9 out of 10" is 10. Unless we're slicing people. Again, all you've stated is "Yes, I cheat, but I cheat because <it's justified>." You can insert any excuse you want, but the idea is that you feel it's justified to do so. In your final statement you've added to that, saying that you condone cheating because everybody else is cheating. Great logic there, why don't we just drop the cause, and edit the EULA to omit botting/hacking/TPS and just go crazy? Why not change the base damage of a 180% weapon damage skill to a 5000% weapon damage skill, and then sell it for others viewing pleasure? Your imagery about winning the tour de france isn't even close.... So I'd edit it; Trying to win the Tour de France without blood doping while everybody else is. Cheating is cheating.
Why do ppl even bother about THud, those who complain about it have never ever pushed leaderboards and even if they will, they won't have success.
Thud is 100% needed if you srsly want to compete, even if you don't want to, you simply HAVE to because everyone else is using it (speaking about top ranks on leaderboards) and the advantage you get from using it is simply too big.
Botting is sth. different tho, lol @ that Redx guy, that was hilarious.
Sorry, but now I have to rip this apart too.
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So the logic is that the people on the leaderboards use it, anybody who wants to be serious about leaderboards, has to use it? Can I just say that this faulty logic can be applied to all forms of cheating, thus making any and all discussions about it pointless. However, the opposite logic is that if nobody used it, it wouldn't be required. What seems more legit?
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The "Clan Leader" video is just proof that you don't have to intellegent to bot, and also shows how much botters don't care about being caught. Without a swift response from Blizzard, this will just fixate this issue until it does.
If people wanna waste their lives cheating in a video game let them. What are you going to do tomorrow? The same thing you've done the past two months. Pretty sad actually.
Just shows how desolate their lives are to have such desires when there is such little reward.
Wtf are you talking about
I said, if you want to compete, you are forced to use it, which is undeniably true.
Then, as you mentioned, if nobody uses it, its not required anymore to compete obviously since everyone uses the same resources then.
Idk what you're on about
Also, yes, it applies to pretty much all forms of cheating. Some have more, some have less impact on competition tho. Thud has a pretty high impact
I'm really sure how you don't understand if you just reiterated what I said. So you're either defending the use of THUD by stating that it's required because even just 1 person on the leaderboards uses it, or you're stating that THUD is okay, but botting isn't. Which isn't logical at all. Literally that defense expands towards all forms of cheating, so you literally cannot defend THUD without defending botting as well. Which is why this letter has sparked such debate, because you also can't attack botting without attacking THUD either.
blizzard doesnt earn money on a per player basis. diablo isnt a subscription based game. they earn money from people buying the game not playing it. banning all bots would actually INCREASE their business as a portion of the botters would buy more copies (gaby for example).
Amen brother. Amen.
The logic from the THUD supporters in this thread is simply astounding. "THUD is everything the DIablo 3 HUD should have been." Well, it isn't and THUD is software from a third party, so hmmmmm, why did that REALLY get left out of the letter. I wonder....
because diablo as a series has always been about the grind. that's inherent.
you're right, everyone deserves to get their fun out of the game. but everyone who plays agreed to the eula/tos. so they should be punished for breaking it. also, some people find their fun by climbing the leaderboards. dont they deserve to do so fairly? if you're against banning botters because they deserve to have fun that way, then blizz would have to create some kind of botting-allowed server or botting-allowed leaderboards for season and non-season. this and making the game not grind-dependent are way too drastic of a change, so were left with ban all cheaters.
Guide to quoting:
1. Hit quote
2. Hit [BB] to the upper right of the text box. This avoids the unintuitive, rather impossible to handle default editor.
3. Make liberal use of the delete-key to shorten the quote to the points that you refer to.
Thanks.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450
I'm totally not saying that I personally think everyone on the leaderboards is a bot either. Sorry if it came across like that. Again, tbh I don't really pay all that much attention to the leaderboards.
But from what I'm hearing, I'd assume at least "some" are. And even some does kinda suck. Totally not trying to point the finger at everyone or anyone in particular, just saying that I agree botting/using whatever kinda cheat is lame and that something should be done about it and that I believe that Blizzard will eventually get around to it.
I'm pretty sure the peeps on the leaderboards are doing waaay better than 65. It seems like 75+ is the sorta stuff that gets you on leaderboards. At least that's what it seems from the videos I see. If it means anything, I meant 65 on 4 man multiplayer. Solo just about 55-57ish.
False, this is a common subjective statement that only voices your personal opinion.
D3 do not support any modifications for a reason, regardless of UI limitations D3 has a very simple gameplay.
Wether its called addons it WoW, or cheats in Diablo3 they are all tools of convenience, their main purpose is to make certain aspects simpler.
Unlike WoW Diablo 3 does not need an enhanced UI or a number of 3.rd party apps to be good or simple enough for anyone.
It is more important to keep it restricted and equal for all to maintain some integrity around the competetive goals of leaderboards&seasons.
This isn't relevant. If you put as much time into tennis as Federer did, but he used steroids, then it would be comparable.
Your statement contradicts itself. If it's cheating and against the rules, then how would everybody using it make the game better? In the same point, how does botting not follow the same logical steps? (If everybody was botting, that levels the playing field for everybody), Agreed the UI could use an upgrade, but, to the point where I never take a wrong turn, I never stop to fight an elite pack long enough to figure out if I want to skip it? By that logic, the reverse is also possible, if everybody didn't use it (every d3 player) then it would improve the game. See how that works?
There are, at this time, soooo many fundamental things wrong with this game. They have made the game into what appears to be a huge invitation to botters/cheaters. We can't all act like this is the only game where botting happens, or where people use 3rd party programs or add-ons for an advantage, right?
A major issue here is that a leaderboard was introduced to the game. And people who want to compete/stay on top have to play near 24 hours a day or bot. Because of the stat advantage of high paragons (people argue about the stats not being huge but to each their own), and the pretty much requirement to play in a full group 100% of the time with it being 100% optimized. My guess is that they wanted to make group play have an appeal, but made it the ONLY way to play the game to stay competitive unless you bot/hack/cheat.
Blizzard has evolved the game into a mindless paragon grind being the endgame. I usually play the first few weeks then I'm done every season because loot is too easily obtained (again this is just my opinion, and we all have one), and then once you have your set together there is NOTHING TO DO except endless paragon grind for those stats. So, in order to get all those paragon levels up there for those stats, you must play non-stop, in a full group, optimized for max xp all the time (or hack/bot/exploit/cheat). Until they make the game more of a level playing field, leaderboards are a complete joke. There has to be more of a constant in my opinion. Take away the NEED or INCENTIVE to bot/cheat. If there is no advantage to hitting paragon 4000000 in a season then people wouldn't care about reaching it. Paragon cap? Random captcha upon entering a rift? I don't know right off the top of my head, and I don't work for Blizzard but SOMETHING needs to change. I feel like I've been in a multiple-year beta with this game.
When I play a game, I like to see re-playability. After a few weeks of obtaining pretty much all the gear needed to play the only viable spec the class has to offer, I see no reason to playing a season after that. (Unless you want those endless paragons......yay)
People may cry or whine about how vanilla was, but it was the best state of the game in my opinion. Early on, the market hadn't yet been flooded with gear onto the horrible auction house setup. Hardcore wasn't full of bots grinding hard content to obtain higher item level gear because it wasn't easy mode endless paragon grinding. People rage/whine quit the game because they couldn't get past the act1-2, 2-3/4 wall. But, there was that feel of progression, difficulty, accomplishment when you could make your way through to Diablo on inferno difficulty and the encounter was epic feeling. Today, gear rains from the sky and you get blood shards to gamble with to fulfill peoples' instant gratification, and then...everything in the game is insta-killed up to and including all of the Torment levels.
As far as turbohud, they need to make a decision about what is and isn't allowed. It does give an advantage over those who do not use it. Just like multi-boxing gives advantages over people who don't. With leaderboards, ya kinda need to have some constants in place. If someone is multi-boxing, they get the well-known, overpowered party xp buff, way more loot etc. etc. How is that even close to not being an advantage? How is it not an advantage that people using Turbohud can see things that people who don't use it out of fear of being banned, can't?
Been away for a bit and there are some varied reactions so far. Here's my severe tirade.
Blizzard needs to seriously consider integrating botting and thud into their software. Then there will be absolutely no need to invest time or resources to ensure integrity when everyone has the same tos approved tools at their disposal. Also it would behoove them to have an extraterritorial legalese document that allows them to appropriate any tool that arguably has an effect on gameplay. SweetFX? It would perpetually evolve into this hideous amalgamation of chode and detritus. Ever reducing the need for slavish input. Think Akira. I, for one, can not wait... Alternatively, Blizzard can punch some people really hard. Make it painful and public. But keep it classy. Borderline draconian. Don't stop at botting though. If the message is indifference can't truly expect something else in return.
And wasn't one of the selling points of "always online", the integrity? Or was it community? Serious question. I'd rather have modding, with botting and thud rather than only the latter two... Too self-righteous?
"We", "Everyone" - Argumentum ad populum. "You people" - Argumentum ad hominem. "Your dumb" - Contractionem absum.
This thread is hilarious. Ban botters and they will come back. Botting is free. Seasons wipe everything. They will just come back next season.
Any microscopic edge that can be obtained will be obtained by those who wish to compete. No matter what. "Cheating" can never be fixed ever. It comes with the territory when 'competition' is involved. Someone will ALWAYS find a way. You don't have to like it, but alas, that is the world we live in.
Is that why you didn't sign? At least if you're going to cheat, you're not hypocritical about it, right? Though speaking out about using TPS, when you're using TPS, kinda defeats the purpose. Many quotes have included, "I cheat because I have to, I cheat because everybody else does, I cheat because it's too good. I cheat because I'll never get caught, I cheat because your breath smells like kitty litter." All ridiculous claims, none of which are substantiated. People seem to think that by making these claims, that they are somehow crusaders of a cause. That thier cheating is justified. Something is lost in this ideal that two wrongs make 3 rights, and 2 lefts, why not? If we're just making it up as we go along... Why not go the full forty?
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Though you've provided snapshotted proof of others cheating, there are plenty of snapshots of you doing so as well. Glass house... Stones... Throwing...
Please be clearer on your reference. Convicted Felon is a Convicted Felon, and those who sympathize are considered a vulnerable sector. Your logic can also apply to the idea that, because a man robbed a bank, he is willing to break the law given the opportunity. As such, he can be treated the same as your first example, because he is willing to break the rules, what rules is he going to break? If you don't abide by the law, you make a choice. Choices have consequences.
http://www.twitch.tv/redx/v/22162318?t=6h28m00s Awesome.
There are NO bots in D3, it is technically impossible to program it. I am a programer myself, I know what i am talking about.
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So the logic is that the people on the leaderboards use it, anybody who wants to be serious about leaderboards, has to use it? Can I just say that this faulty logic can be applied to all forms of cheating, thus making any and all discussions about it pointless. However, the opposite logic is that if nobody used it, it wouldn't be required. What seems more legit?
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The "Clan Leader" video is just proof that you don't have to intellegent to bot, and also shows how much botters don't care about being caught. Without a swift response from Blizzard, this will just fixate this issue until it does.
If people wanna waste their lives cheating in a video game let them. What are you going to do tomorrow? The same thing you've done the past two months. Pretty sad actually.
Just shows how desolate their lives are to have such desires when there is such little reward.
I'm really sure how you don't understand if you just reiterated what I said. So you're either defending the use of THUD by stating that it's required because even just 1 person on the leaderboards uses it, or you're stating that THUD is okay, but botting isn't. Which isn't logical at all. Literally that defense expands towards all forms of cheating, so you literally cannot defend THUD without defending botting as well. Which is why this letter has sparked such debate, because you also can't attack botting without attacking THUD either.
I'll sign this because all botters can go fap in a dark fucking cave with nothing but a picture of Gollum.