You don't have to add every single color in every single square-inch of the game in full saturation to create good visibility. That's just an excuse that Blizzard is using to unabashedly try to jump on the hype of WoW. And I suppose they'd convince you that the big shoulder-pads were incorporated for visibility reasons as well. It wouldn't be a bad thing if the premise of the game were to be more loose and comical like that of WarCraft. But Diablo has historically carried a more serious tone.
Like I said on the bnet forums, making every single color of the color wheel prominent in every single area (which is going to be the case now that Blizzard is no longer "afraid of color" and have abandoned better artist judgment) is truly the most monotonous choice. If they had only prominently used 2/3's of the color wheel per area then the next area would have room to change and bring out other colors in more prominence. That would help hint at the notion of progression - this is a really simple idea that has been used throughout the ages of color theory - I shouldn't have to explain this. People think that when we have these really powerful computers restraint can be thrown out the window. In some deranged way, that is thought of as progression...
Without restraint the color scheme becomes loud and obnoxious. Meanwhile, analagous, complementary or split-complementary color schemes are much more harmonious and aesthetic. A far better choice than to barrage with an overabundance of color. You can still get a very nice array of colors with 2/3's of the color wheel prominently displayed and low saturations of the other colors.
Gray is one extreme, rainbows another, and then there is a gentle medium. This gentle medium could be called doing things in good taste - something we are all familiar with. Why has everyone jumped on such extremes, is it just to belittle each other?
Extremes = exaggeration. Exaggeration is comical and cartoony - it's one of the fundamental principles of traditional *Disney* animation. I would very much prefer Diablo to be a more serious experience.
While I applaud your efforts to explain the green, the fact is that you're using a subtractive method of color mixing, whereas when you're dealing with light, it's additive.
Yeah, sure thing, but D3 isn't exactly real life or photo realistic, it is more like an alive Gothic painting, and in painting when you mix blue with yellow you get green, i think it is mainly meant to add mood cause green is related to rotten things .. moss .. and degeneration too, still the point is that it is not coming from "nowhere" like some people say.
And as for the rainbow it looks just fine, it is transparent and hazy like a rainbow would look like, and makes the nature in D3 look more interesting and detailed, and after replaying D2 for few weeks to refresh my memory i found it to be too bland, maybe except the jungle areas, but that also gets pretty repetitive after few minutes.
AS for light tracer thing on normal weapons, that's nonsense, actually like someone already pointed out the barb has been using a special skill in the first fight, his normal attacks don't have any light tracer or special effects, that skill can be seen on the Barb page in the D3 official site, .. sigh ... makes me wonder how many of the so called diablo fans did bother to even visit the site and explore it.
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"This place is thick with the stench of ghouls"
Said the Barbarian before proceeding to slaughter everyone
Yeah, sure thing, but D3 isn't exactly real life or photo realistic, it is more like an alive Gothic painting, and in painting when you mix blue with yellow you get green, i think it is mainly meant to add mood cause green is related to rotten things .. moss .. and degeneration too, still the point is that it is not coming from "nowhere" like some people say.
You hit the nail on the head my friend. Diablo 3 is not real life, hence why I do not care if there is light there that makes no sense. I don't like that it is green, but in all honesty I don't care if it stays or goes.
You hit the nail on the head my friend. Diablo 3 is not real life, hence why I do not care if there is light there that makes no sense. I don't like that it is green, but in all honesty I don't care if it stays or goes.
Diablo isn't real life so anything goes! It doesn't matter what they throw in! (sarcasm)
Sorry but real true diablo fans care about what the game looks like.
If you don't then you have no point in what you Argue about.
Sorry if others cant understand that. Maybe try to not to take so many dumb shit pulls when you wake up in the morning with your coffee or something.
I was being highly sarcastic. Read my post above the one you quoted. I was trying to point out the ridiculous nature of the argument: Diablo isn't reality so thus it doesn't matter what goes in the game. I disagree completely. I should expressly state when I'm being sarcastic though because of all the crazy ideas people get on these forums.
You don't think the game should adhere to the basic properties of light?
Should we do away with gravity and momentum as well?
Just because Diablo 3 isn't set in real life doesn't mean you can ignore things like light. If you start messing with stuff like that then you lose your sense of immersion and believability.
Also, cycloverid, they said that color is your friend, and they aren't afraid to use color.
HOWEVER, that doesn't mean thay'll use EVERY COLOR ALL THE TIME. On the contrary. FROM WHAT WE'VE SEEN (which, keep in mind, is still very little), they've been using color very respectfully and not been going overboard. I have yet to see blinding over-saturations or anything of that nature. Besides, just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you SHOULD do something.
Essentially just because they're allowing themselves to use the whole color wheel doesn't mean they WILL. Again, from what we've seen, they've been very selective about their use of color, and have been trying to utilize color theory and the moods and feelings associated with colors they do use.
So...there.
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It's time to welcome the other 80% of the color wheel to a Diablo game.
You don't think the game should adhere to the basic properties of light?
Should we do away with gravity and momentum as well?
Just because Diablo 3 isn't set in real life doesn't mean you can ignore things like light. If you start messing with stuff like that then you lose your sense of immersion and believability.
Also, cycloverid, they said that color is your friend, and they aren't afraid to use color.
HOWEVER, that doesn't mean thay'll use EVERY COLOR ALL THE TIME. On the contrary. FROM WHAT WE'VE SEEN (which, keep in mind, is still very little), they've been using color very respectfully and not been going overboard. I have yet to see blinding over-saturations or anything of that nature. Besides, just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you SHOULD do something.
Essentially just because they're allowing themselves to use the whole color wheel doesn't mean they WILL. Again, from what we've seen, they've been very selective about their use of color, and have been trying to utilize color theory and the moods and feelings associated with colors they do use.
So...there.
I suppose you feel you have proved something in this post. Just look at the demo dungeon again. What color are they not using? If you didn't notice already, there was absolutely no restraint. Full saturation of oranges, yellows, reds, greens, blues, browns, purples... you name it, it's there. What about the outdoors? Same thing. Although the outdoors do have a more refined scheme ( they stay away from purple and red at least ). Like you said "they aren't afraid of colors" and that's a huge problem IMO. I'd really like to see some sort of scheme so the area can maintain a unique feel. I don't mind if every color is present, they just need to tone some down so there is a prominent set of colors for that area. It's like with actors in movies, you don't hire a bunch of big budget actors in a single film because they simply don't mix well - no one actor in particular is able to shine.
If you didn't notice already, there was absolutely no restraint. Full saturation of oranges, yellows, reds, greens, blues, browns, purples... you name it, it's there.
Wrong.
Full saturation of those colors would mean that your screen would be filled with nothing but giant blobs of color.
I can't speak for your monitor, but something must be lost in translation here.
And even if all the colors ARE being used, it doesn't mean that they're full saturation. IT just means they're present.
I think you're confusing saturation with simple existence.
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It's time to welcome the other 80% of the color wheel to a Diablo game.
In the gaming world, and even more-so in the RPG gaming world, there are a class of geeks that are know-it-all types who are stubborn and refuse to listen to what you say. You can pull out the core D & D rule book and show them that they're wrong and they will continue to argue, ruining everyone's good time during the gaming session.
They have no concept of art or good design, and they think they know what's best for an IP over the actual owners of said IP. That is their arrogance. That is what they feel they are owed, because everything else in their miserable lives is so mundane. So they must have a talent for telling Blizzard how their games should look. They like to think that they made a difference and caused a change in one of their favorite video games. They want to be able to say "*giggles* See dat? I told Blizz ta change dat dang! And dey did!"
They refuse to listen to anyone with an actual education on the subject. They refuse to even listen to Blizzards well thought out responses and reasons for why the art direction works from a game making standpoint. That is why these arguments are still going and people are still arguing about inane, asinine things like the laws of physics when it comes to the subtle rainbows in the background of a level in D3.
These are the geeks even other classes of geek try to avoid. Just read other threads on the subject of graphics and art direction now. It's beyond arguing simple opinions. It's turned into blatant disregard for reason.
He doesn't have disdain for geeks in general, just the ones who feel the need to make pointless hyperboles and exaggerations for the sake of trying to be right.
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It's time to welcome the other 80% of the color wheel to a Diablo game.
I also don't understand this "we're not afraid of colors" or shit like that.
WTH does that mean anyways? If Blizzard actually cared to look at its previous games, then they would see Diablo 1 and 2 had tons of colors. The difference is that it now looks like some retard made use of them, wich just sucks.
If anything, you should be "afraid" of colors. Why? Because then you respect them and actually don't just puke colors over everything just for the hell of it, everyone can do that, making intelligent use of shapes and colors and lightning and such, thats something else.
It would be the same if they said "we're not afraid of light" and then showed us a dungeon overly lit by a sourceless green light, oh wait, they did actually do that.
It would be the same if they said "we're not afraid of shapes" and showed us overexagerated shoulderpads and cubical statues, oh wait, they also did that.
They should be afraid of it all, because thats the only way to make them think before doing.
Someone thats not afraid of speed, won't ever become a good racedriver, you need to respect the speed first.
Well said. Agreed.
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If you get personally attacked by letters through the internet its a good thing to always have a box of tissues and a band-aid around.
Care to redirect me to these supposedly "well thought out reasons" of Blizzard?
However, translating the game from 2D to 3D with a dark color palette didn’t make for the best gameplay experience. The first and second iterations of the art direction had a “modern, gritty look” but made it difficult to distinguish enemies from the environment. “When you have 30 creatures on screen — and four or five different types — target prioritization is a factor,” he said. “You need to be able to tell those things apart fast, and you can’t do that when your world is gray and your creatures are gray.”
“It’s not that we don’t like games like that,” Wilson explained, “but they tend to be shorter games, like first-person shooters that are five or six hours long. You’ll be playing ‘Diablo III’ for potentially hundreds of hours, and being in one type of environment with one type of look… it really became boring very quickly. There’s a lot of gray-and-brown games out there, and there’s lots of photo-realism out there. If you want that, there’s no end of games for you to play. We didn’t want you to look at ‘Diablo III’ and go, ‘Oh, that looks like ‘Gears of War.’"
And that's just from PART of ONE interview. I know you've read this and you've read the other interviews where he explains why the art took the direction it did. It all makes sense from a game making standpoint while still staying true to the over all dark tone of Diablo. You knew that these articles were out there. You say that all Blizz said was "We're not changing it..." when you know they've given all kinds of reasons.
Why you would leave the reasons out in order to keep whining is beyond me.
Garbage (the reason that it was possible in 2D but not that possible in 3D is fucking retarded) Garbage (wich is a "well thought out reason" HOW? Who the fuck asked for enemies that fucking stand out of their enviroment all the fucking time anyways? This isn't a fucking "well made" reason) Garbage (and it never was before then or what? This reason is idiotic) Garbage (NO YOU FUCKING DON'T, GIVE ME THE WELL THOUGHT OUT REASON WHY!) Garbage (NONE FUCKING ASKS FOR GRAY ON GRAY IDIOT)
Garbage (Games like what? Diablo? Where is the well thought out reason? HUH?) Garbage (Do you see any well made explanation reasoning how we are asking for every enviroment to look the same? WE ARE ASKING FOR A CHANGE IN ART DESIGN!) Garbage (Well wow, geez, thats a well though out reason, NOT) Garbage (None is fucking asking for it to look like fucking Gears of War fucktard, or do you really think a 3D DIABLO 1 or 2 would per definition look like Gears of War? WHY?)
I'm starting a petition against this post. Has too many colors.
Garbage (the reason that it was possible in 2D but not that possible in 3D is fucking retarded) Garbage (wich is a "well thought out reason" HOW? Who the fuck asked for enemies that fucking stand out of their enviroment all the fucking time anyways? This isn't a fucking "well made" reason) Garbage (and it never was before then or what? This reason is idiotic) Garbage (NO YOU FUCKING DON'T, GIVE ME THE WELL THOUGHT OUT REASON WHY!) Garbage (NONE FUCKING ASKS FOR GRAY ON GRAY IDIOT)
Garbage (Games like what? Diablo? Where is the well thought out reason? HUH?) Garbage (Do you see any well made explanation reasoning how we are asking for every enviroment to look the same? WE ARE ASKING FOR A CHANGE IN ART DESIGN!) Garbage (Well wow, geez, thats a well though out reason, NOT) Garbage (None is fucking asking for it to look like fucking Gears of War fucktard, or do you really think a 3D DIABLO 1 or 2 would per definition look like Gears of War? WHY?)
LOL, seriously that made me laugh. But basically, its not just about the colors, its the style as well. Not only that, its the inventory, its the red globes that you supposedly "run over" for health. Its the extremely low polygonized things, when other things are not that low poly in the trailer. There over-all style, with cartoony paintings and over exaggerated stuff. Its the fact that the dark cultist looks exactly like a WoW undead caster and has the same exact cast animations. http://www.blizzard.com/diablo3/world/bestiary/darkcultists.xml And all of this is only in a 20 minute gameplay video? I honestly cannot even imagine what a 2 hour trailer might look like. Now that is a scary fucking thought.
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If you get personally attacked by letters through the internet its a good thing to always have a box of tissues and a band-aid around.
Can you show me the casting animations? And heres an Undead mage for your viewing pleasures because they look so similar, right? Just look at the long robes!
Great picture, If the dark cultist was actually wearing that robe instead of his current one, they would look exactly the same. Thank you for posting the picture to confirm that.
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If you get personally attacked by letters through the internet its a good thing to always have a box of tissues and a band-aid around.
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I mean a official poll on D3 main site. One more people will see and be apt to take part in.
Like I said on the bnet forums, making every single color of the color wheel prominent in every single area (which is going to be the case now that Blizzard is no longer "afraid of color" and have abandoned better artist judgment) is truly the most monotonous choice. If they had only prominently used 2/3's of the color wheel per area then the next area would have room to change and bring out other colors in more prominence. That would help hint at the notion of progression - this is a really simple idea that has been used throughout the ages of color theory - I shouldn't have to explain this. People think that when we have these really powerful computers restraint can be thrown out the window. In some deranged way, that is thought of as progression...
Without restraint the color scheme becomes loud and obnoxious. Meanwhile, analagous, complementary or split-complementary color schemes are much more harmonious and aesthetic. A far better choice than to barrage with an overabundance of color. You can still get a very nice array of colors with 2/3's of the color wheel prominently displayed and low saturations of the other colors.
Gray is one extreme, rainbows another, and then there is a gentle medium. This gentle medium could be called doing things in good taste - something we are all familiar with. Why has everyone jumped on such extremes, is it just to belittle each other?
Extremes = exaggeration. Exaggeration is comical and cartoony - it's one of the fundamental principles of traditional *Disney* animation. I would very much prefer Diablo to be a more serious experience.
Yeah, sure thing, but D3 isn't exactly real life or photo realistic, it is more like an alive Gothic painting, and in painting when you mix blue with yellow you get green, i think it is mainly meant to add mood cause green is related to rotten things .. moss .. and degeneration too, still the point is that it is not coming from "nowhere" like some people say.
------------------------------------------------------
And as for the rainbow it looks just fine, it is transparent and hazy like a rainbow would look like, and makes the nature in D3 look more interesting and detailed, and after replaying D2 for few weeks to refresh my memory i found it to be too bland, maybe except the jungle areas, but that also gets pretty repetitive after few minutes.
------------------------------------------------------
AS for light tracer thing on normal weapons, that's nonsense, actually like someone already pointed out the barb has been using a special skill in the first fight, his normal attacks don't have any light tracer or special effects, that skill can be seen on the Barb page in the D3 official site, .. sigh ... makes me wonder how many of the so called diablo fans did bother to even visit the site and explore it.
Said the Barbarian before proceeding to slaughter everyone
http://www.petitiononline.com/d3color/petition.html
You hit the nail on the head my friend. Diablo 3 is not real life, hence why I do not care if there is light there that makes no sense. I don't like that it is green, but in all honesty I don't care if it stays or goes.
Diablo isn't real life so anything goes! It doesn't matter what they throw in! (sarcasm)
Sorry but real true diablo fans care about what the game looks like.
If you don't then you have no point in what you Argue about.
Sorry if others cant understand that. Maybe try to not to take so many dumb shit pulls when you wake up in the morning with your coffee or something.
I was being highly sarcastic. Read my post above the one you quoted. I was trying to point out the ridiculous nature of the argument: Diablo isn't reality so thus it doesn't matter what goes in the game. I disagree completely. I should expressly state when I'm being sarcastic though because of all the crazy ideas people get on these forums.
My bad, did not read it, i delete it.
You don't think the game should adhere to the basic properties of light?
Should we do away with gravity and momentum as well?
Just because Diablo 3 isn't set in real life doesn't mean you can ignore things like light. If you start messing with stuff like that then you lose your sense of immersion and believability.
Also, cycloverid, they said that color is your friend, and they aren't afraid to use color.
HOWEVER, that doesn't mean thay'll use EVERY COLOR ALL THE TIME. On the contrary. FROM WHAT WE'VE SEEN (which, keep in mind, is still very little), they've been using color very respectfully and not been going overboard. I have yet to see blinding over-saturations or anything of that nature. Besides, just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you SHOULD do something.
Essentially just because they're allowing themselves to use the whole color wheel doesn't mean they WILL. Again, from what we've seen, they've been very selective about their use of color, and have been trying to utilize color theory and the moods and feelings associated with colors they do use.
So...there.
It's time to welcome the other 80% of the color wheel to a Diablo game.
I suppose you feel you have proved something in this post. Just look at the demo dungeon again. What color are they not using? If you didn't notice already, there was absolutely no restraint. Full saturation of oranges, yellows, reds, greens, blues, browns, purples... you name it, it's there. What about the outdoors? Same thing. Although the outdoors do have a more refined scheme ( they stay away from purple and red at least ). Like you said "they aren't afraid of colors" and that's a huge problem IMO. I'd really like to see some sort of scheme so the area can maintain a unique feel. I don't mind if every color is present, they just need to tone some down so there is a prominent set of colors for that area. It's like with actors in movies, you don't hire a bunch of big budget actors in a single film because they simply don't mix well - no one actor in particular is able to shine.
Wrong.
Full saturation of those colors would mean that your screen would be filled with nothing but giant blobs of color.
I can't speak for your monitor, but something must be lost in translation here.
And even if all the colors ARE being used, it doesn't mean that they're full saturation. IT just means they're present.
I think you're confusing saturation with simple existence.
It's time to welcome the other 80% of the color wheel to a Diablo game.
In the gaming world, and even more-so in the RPG gaming world, there are a class of geeks that are know-it-all types who are stubborn and refuse to listen to what you say. You can pull out the core D & D rule book and show them that they're wrong and they will continue to argue, ruining everyone's good time during the gaming session.
They have no concept of art or good design, and they think they know what's best for an IP over the actual owners of said IP. That is their arrogance. That is what they feel they are owed, because everything else in their miserable lives is so mundane. So they must have a talent for telling Blizzard how their games should look. They like to think that they made a difference and caused a change in one of their favorite video games. They want to be able to say "*giggles* See dat? I told Blizz ta change dat dang! And dey did!"
They refuse to listen to anyone with an actual education on the subject. They refuse to even listen to Blizzards well thought out responses and reasons for why the art direction works from a game making standpoint. That is why these arguments are still going and people are still arguing about inane, asinine things like the laws of physics when it comes to the subtle rainbows in the background of a level in D3.
These are the geeks even other classes of geek try to avoid. Just read other threads on the subject of graphics and art direction now. It's beyond arguing simple opinions. It's turned into blatant disregard for reason.
It's time to welcome the other 80% of the color wheel to a Diablo game.
Well said. Agreed.
And that's just from PART of ONE interview. I know you've read this and you've read the other interviews where he explains why the art took the direction it did. It all makes sense from a game making standpoint while still staying true to the over all dark tone of Diablo. You knew that these articles were out there. You say that all Blizz said was "We're not changing it..." when you know they've given all kinds of reasons.
Why you would leave the reasons out in order to keep whining is beyond me.
Nice argument. :thumbsup:
I'm starting a petition against this post. Has too many colors.
LOL, seriously that made me laugh. But basically, its not just about the colors, its the style as well. Not only that, its the inventory, its the red globes that you supposedly "run over" for health. Its the extremely low polygonized things, when other things are not that low poly in the trailer. There over-all style, with cartoony paintings and over exaggerated stuff. Its the fact that the dark cultist looks exactly like a WoW undead caster and has the same exact cast animations. http://www.blizzard.com/diablo3/world/bestiary/darkcultists.xml And all of this is only in a 20 minute gameplay video? I honestly cannot even imagine what a 2 hour trailer might look like. Now that is a scary fucking thought.
Can you show me the casting animations? And heres an Undead mage for your viewing pleasures because they look so similar, right? Just look at the long robes!
Great picture, If the dark cultist was actually wearing that robe instead of his current one, they would look exactly the same. Thank you for posting the picture to confirm that.