I think one should. Can't just turn a blind eye to something which doesn't work. Then you let corruption win.
Also, what should we spend time on? Would playing the game be a better time waste? Work? Being with your family? So many things to waste your time on. To me, this sounds like a better time sink then the accrual game. You sharpen your analytical skills and work with things you might work with as an employee. Seems like something useful
And so would the players.
I have no issues with Paragon as it is. At least I can pound out some paragon while looking for said item that I may never find. At least I can advance my GR level using paragon instead of relying totally on that item I need which may never be found. Running GRs for Xp...who cares. Many who do that have BIS gear anyway. Whats the point of playing if your stuck on GR X until a new patch comes out and now GR Y is the new top. I could care less about the top 1000 or 10000 on the leaderboards. I want Blizzard to post all rankings of everyone on the GR Leaderboards. I may be ranked 1,000,000 but if I can pound out a few Paragon or maybe find the missing BIS I can do a GR and be ranked 999,999. I see myself moving up the ranks amongst the shitty players like myself.
And so would the players.
I have no issues with Paragon as it is. At least I can pound out some paragon while looking for said item that I may never find. At least I can advance my GR level using paragon instead of relying totally on that item I need which may never be found. Running GRs for Xp...who cares. Many who do that have BIS gear anyway. Whats the point of playing if your stuck on GR X until a new patch comes out and now GR Y is the new top. I could care less about the top 1000 or 10000 on the leaderboards. I want Blizzard to post all rankings of everyone on the GR Leaderboards. I may be ranked 1,000,000 but if I can pound out a few Paragon or maybe find the missing BIS I can do a GR and be ranked 999,999. I see myself moving up the ranks amongst the shitty players like myself.
Sharing exp does't really help much when 2 out of 6 classes are way more viable then the rest, why would you go with anything else like a DH / Crus / Wiz / WD.
Every class needs to be as viable as anything else nothing less nothing more when it comes to group play.
What class and build competes with healing monk or swk monk ? what about hota and support barb ?
Sharing exp does't really help much when 2 out of 6 classes are way more viable then the rest, why would you go with anything else like a DH / Crus / Wiz / WD.
Every class needs to be as viable as anything else nothing less nothing more when it comes to group play.
What class and build competes with healing monk or swk monk ? what about hota and support barb ?
region-wide paragon catch-up would balance many things, including class representation disbalance, as why would you feel forced to level and play a barb or monk, when you can continue to play your DH and earn 10x more exp when you are less that 80% of paragon top 1 (region wide).
This means, that streamers will still be better, but they will make your DH to have a viable paragon level
EDIT: this mechanism is suggested only for seasons
No it would not, it would just give off the illusion of things being balanced when its not.
If total xp required for P2.5k is 204324847000000, then we'll see the first P2.5k in S4 after 2 months.
Edit: And if xp P2.5k-P5.5k scales linearly, then after 100 days we'll see P3.2k, where the average player (4h/day) will be around P1.6k. This is 8000 main stat difference. And the solo player will be... Hmm no point in calcing that, I doubt anyone will play solo.
If they change it now, those that have 100+ legendary gems are the only ones that will have them, without paragon you will not be able to get gems that high. and those with the high level gems will dominate the leader board again and again and you will be on here saying blizz needs to fix it they are higher than everyone else, play the game and stop whining, because of people like you they nerf stuff to hell and no one wants to play it anymore, wow is an example it was awesome in vanilla then they nerfed everything and now everyone has stopped playing it cause its to easy, no challenge = no fun.
If they change it now, those that have 100+ legendary gems are the only ones that will have them, without paragon you will not be able to get gems that high.
do the math and you see that this is bullshit. Paragon does not make a big difference. You can play on 100+ with low paragon. The difference between someone with P1000 and someone with P3000 are 3 griftlevels, maybe 4.
Skill is way more important for high grifts than paragon, but it's easier to hate on paragon than on own inability to "git gud"
Do you play on console or pc? I think ive figured out why i disagree with you so much
If they change it now, those that have 100+ legendary gems are the only ones that will have them, without paragon you will not be able to get gems that high.
do the math and you see that this is bullshit. Paragon does not make a big difference. You can play on 100+ with low paragon. The difference between someone with P1000 and someone with P3000 are 3 griftlevels, maybe 4.
Skill is way more important for high grifts than paragon, but it's easier to hate on paragon than on own inability to "git gud"
You do the math. Because i bet you anything you cannot jump into a solo Grift 3 -4 levels highers than your current max. with the 2.4.1 nerf to DMO wizard you can't do shit. Chainer was paragon 3XXX and cleared a Grift 93 solo sader. Allocate only 1000 paragon points and do a grift 93. and your caldesann's despair can only be a max of 93.
If they change it now, those that have 100+ legendary gems are the only ones that will have them, without paragon you will not be able to get gems that high.
do the math and you see that this is bullshit. Paragon does not make a big difference. You can play on 100+ with low paragon. The difference between someone with P1000 and someone with P3000 are 3 griftlevels, maybe 4.
Skill is way more important for high grifts than paragon, but it's easier to hate on paragon than on own inability to "git gud"
You do the math. Because i bet you anything you cannot jump into a solo Grift 3 -4 levels highers than your current max. with the 2.4.1 nerf to DMO wizard you can't do shit. Chainer was paragon 3XXX and cleared a Grift 93 solo sader. Allocate only 1000 paragon points and do a grift 93. and your caldesann's despair can only be a max of 93.
His gear and paragon could do 98 or 99. He didn't try because he farmed too hard and gave up in the last couple weeks. Before the bans a crusader at like 2750 did 98. Doesn't matter if he botted his cubed gems and legendary gems and paragon were below chainers.
Bare in mind : fix one problem BUT do not create additional ones
capping paragons will create more problems than the ones it will resolve
Care to elaborate?
Sure, I will make it simple. If you cap the paragons, you will "fix the bot issue" right? We will get at that cap sooner or later.
But then we will have a progress problem. Why will we play? For loots? We have them easily aquired. For set items? For materials? For what?
Well, simple really. Botters bot for power to be at the top of the ladder for their epeen. So a cap simply makes people push and fish sooner, or try harder to min max. Nobody tries to min/max anymore, it is not substantial because of 2000+ paragon. I am not sure I love a cap as much as I used to, but I definitely feel we need a rework to the system. What I do love would be more focus on gear!
Paragon was never meant to be "end game" and that is pretty obvious by its design. I am looking forward to Blizz implementing changes, I think we see them in 2.5 which sounds like it will be season 8 as of right now. (Likely to happen around February 2017, of which we will hear a lot of news about at Blizzcon.)
math doesn't lie. paragon is 3-4 grift levels. you can't elaborate and just talk out of your ass. vague statements with 0 credibility behind it. you're nothing more than a troll
Can you link some sheets to this, because when I browse through 4 man leaderboards, I see almost all groups with 2500+ paragon.
Maybe the gap from 2500-3000 is not much due to diminishing returns, but the gap from 800-2500 is extreme. Not 3-4 GR, more like 9-12 class pending based on looking at the leaderboard. The players that are higher with low paragon might be better, or they got lucky with the right fished rift, or best min/max gear. All are plausible reasons, but 10% of players 50-1000 being under paragon 1250 is not really the norm, 10% would make them an exception, and prove that the numbers do matter, and your derivative from them are a lie!
Just based on what I have seen Season 4,5 so if you have seen/have other viable proof (not sure what other proof their is looking at the boards themselves which tell my story not yours) then please share so we can continue this discussion
Starting at post #183, you will find the paragon cap discussion that was previously derailing a different thread. Just for those wondering where all the posts went and why all your posts ended up in this thread ;-)
Regarding the tone of the discussion, it is very borderline, but in my opinion still within the rules (though on the verge of some people getting infracted). I get that some of the claims are strong and against our intuition of how powerful we perceive paragon to be, but that does not give anyone the right to shift the tone to personal insults. Please keep it in line.
Shapookya perfectly explained the math why paragon makes less of a difference than what people think. And Wudijo's final sprint on the leaderboards adds to that example: he had 1300 less paragon, lower augments (probably another 300-400 paragon), lower gem levels (probably about ~10 less on average) - only his gear was just as good (if not better). So altogether, a difference of about 1600-1700 paragon, gem levels and gear probably equaled each other out. His final clear was 4 tiers lower, though he only spent about 200 keys or so on GR88 afaik and 1300 keys on GR92 - with the same amount of keys he would've cleared GR89 for sure, maybe with a bit of luck even GR90. So yes:
Shapookya is right with this sentence: "The difference between someone with P1000 and someone with P3000 are 3 griftlevels, maybe 4."
However, I think most people disagree with this sentence: "Paragon does not make a big difference."
Because when you're pushing for records, 3-4 tiers are the difference of being somewhere in the middle of nowhere on the leaderboards or top 100. On the 4 player leaderboards, it's even the difference between being rank 200 or NUMBER ONE. That is "yuge"!
Still, when you're paragon 1000 you're not just 4 levels below the paragon 3000 "top players". Why is that? Well, for a variety of reasons:
People with higher paragon have played more rifts (that's why they have higher paragon, d'oh). Playing more rifts = more experience; especially in the S5 where knowledge about every corner in every rift was as literally the key as never before.
Higher paragon oftentimes comes with better gear.
Higher paragon players also usually have higher augments (due to having played more rifts and therefore more gem upgrades).
Higher paragon players also have higher gem levels; in S5, maybe only 10-15 higher, previously (due to 1% upgrade runs) even more.
Higher paragon players just make better decisions: What is a good/bad map? Which packs to skip? Is this a good mob type? How do I dodge those mobs? How do I fight the rift guardian?
There's a correlation between higher paragon players and pylon mechanics knowledge. Low paragon players often don't know the mechanics, don't know where/when/how to spawn them (and when not to), and when/for what to use them.
=> TL;DR: Paragon alone does not make as much of a difference as people think, especially in the age of Caldessan's. But having high paragon comes with other perks (mostly experience, skill, and knowledge) that widen the gap. Nevertheless, when discussing paragon changes we should stay objective and stay true to the facts.
I think one should. Can't just turn a blind eye to something which doesn't work. Then you let corruption win.
Also, what should we spend time on? Would playing the game be a better time waste? Work? Being with your family? So many things to waste your time on. To me, this sounds like a better time sink then the accrual game. You sharpen your analytical skills and work with things you might work with as an employee. Seems like something useful
I have no issues with Paragon as it is. At least I can pound out some paragon while looking for said item that I may never find. At least I can advance my GR level using paragon instead of relying totally on that item I need which may never be found. Running GRs for Xp...who cares. Many who do that have BIS gear anyway. Whats the point of playing if your stuck on GR X until a new patch comes out and now GR Y is the new top. I could care less about the top 1000 or 10000 on the leaderboards. I want Blizzard to post all rankings of everyone on the GR Leaderboards. I may be ranked 1,000,000 but if I can pound out a few Paragon or maybe find the missing BIS I can do a GR and be ranked 999,999. I see myself moving up the ranks amongst the shitty players like myself.
Sharing exp does't really help much when 2 out of 6 classes are way more viable then the rest, why would you go with anything else like a DH / Crus / Wiz / WD.
Every class needs to be as viable as anything else nothing less nothing more when it comes to group play.
What class and build competes with healing monk or swk monk ? what about hota and support barb ?
No it would not, it would just give off the illusion of things being balanced when its not.
Well, it's 2 months and a week:
http://www.diablo3.com.cn/profile/狂拽帅-5926/17832170
Just in time for BlizzCon!
stop talking about pargons and get on diablo3 and start grinding casuals lol lmao just kidding guyz I love u
Capping paragon will hurt dedicated players
Designing some kind of matchmaking or brackets will help.
just cap it to 2k and everything is awesome ty ty
Capped paragon with no trading system = no reason to play.
No one is going to play another 2 months to get 30 more stat when they have 18000
If they change it now, those that have 100+ legendary gems are the only ones that will have them, without paragon you will not be able to get gems that high. and those with the high level gems will dominate the leader board again and again and you will be on here saying blizz needs to fix it they are higher than everyone else, play the game and stop whining, because of people like you they nerf stuff to hell and no one wants to play it anymore, wow is an example it was awesome in vanilla then they nerfed everything and now everyone has stopped playing it cause its to easy, no challenge = no fun.
THEY HATE US, CUZ THEY AIN'T US
omfgkittens what's your paragon? 1100 as in profile?
Paragon was never meant to be "end game" and that is pretty obvious by its design. I am looking forward to Blizz implementing changes, I think we see them in 2.5 which sounds like it will be season 8 as of right now. (Likely to happen around February 2017, of which we will hear a lot of news about at Blizzcon.)
Maybe the gap from 2500-3000 is not much due to diminishing returns, but the gap from 800-2500 is extreme. Not 3-4 GR, more like 9-12 class pending based on looking at the leaderboard. The players that are higher with low paragon might be better, or they got lucky with the right fished rift, or best min/max gear. All are plausible reasons, but 10% of players 50-1000 being under paragon 1250 is not really the norm, 10% would make them an exception, and prove that the numbers do matter, and your derivative from them are a lie!
Just based on what I have seen Season 4,5 so if you have seen/have other viable proof (not sure what other proof their is looking at the boards themselves which tell my story not yours) then please share so we can continue this discussion
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
ModeratorStarting at post #183, you will find the paragon cap discussion that was previously derailing a different thread. Just for those wondering where all the posts went and why all your posts ended up in this thread ;-)
Regarding the tone of the discussion, it is very borderline, but in my opinion still within the rules (though on the verge of some people getting infracted). I get that some of the claims are strong and against our intuition of how powerful we perceive paragon to be, but that does not give anyone the right to shift the tone to personal insults. Please keep it in line.
Shapookya perfectly explained the math why paragon makes less of a difference than what people think. And Wudijo's final sprint on the leaderboards adds to that example: he had 1300 less paragon, lower augments (probably another 300-400 paragon), lower gem levels (probably about ~10 less on average) - only his gear was just as good (if not better). So altogether, a difference of about 1600-1700 paragon, gem levels and gear probably equaled each other out. His final clear was 4 tiers lower, though he only spent about 200 keys or so on GR88 afaik and 1300 keys on GR92 - with the same amount of keys he would've cleared GR89 for sure, maybe with a bit of luck even GR90. So yes:
Shapookya is right with this sentence: "The difference between someone with P1000 and someone with P3000 are 3 griftlevels, maybe 4."
However, I think most people disagree with this sentence: "Paragon does not make a big difference."
Because when you're pushing for records, 3-4 tiers are the difference of being somewhere in the middle of nowhere on the leaderboards or top 100. On the 4 player leaderboards, it's even the difference between being rank 200 or NUMBER ONE. That is "yuge"!
Still, when you're paragon 1000 you're not just 4 levels below the paragon 3000 "top players". Why is that? Well, for a variety of reasons:
=> TL;DR: Paragon alone does not make as much of a difference as people think, especially in the age of Caldessan's. But having high paragon comes with other perks (mostly experience, skill, and knowledge) that widen the gap. Nevertheless, when discussing paragon changes we should stay objective and stay true to the facts.