Bagstone, would you agree that we would all have been a lot better off if Blizzard had handed out bans and rollbacks for exploiters a long time ago?
Of course, absolutely. The majority of people that abused this exploit only did this because Blizzard had completely ignored previous exploits, only fixing them afterwards and never punishing the actual exploiters. Those exploits were even made public on the official forum with comments like "use it as long as it's not fixed", and there was no moderation of such threads. It was a pretty clear message: we don't care if you exploit your way to the top.
Obviously I'm a bit salty to be the only one being banned
The ban just gave me even more reasons to quit.
But seriously, why dafuq was he the only one. while everyone else got rolled back. Heck, a checked out one of Gaby's streams. DNA clan should get perma banned and not rolled back.
If mannercookies wanted to quit, he should've just pulled a KingKongor. delete all his characters with all items in character inventory.
@Ruksuk, dude I've played D3 since vanilla, and RoS versus vanilla MP10 days, D3v wins automatically. Decaying Crypt > FoM > weeping Hollow. was 100 times more fun that any Grift. I've talked several veteran players like myself who've agreed. Why do we play this over PoE/torchlight/etc? because there really isnt anything better to play. you could tell it by mannercookies tone when he spoke during stream. he hated the game.
Ancient leg destroyed the meta IMO. at least for weapons. you find a corrupted ashbringer and its not ancient equates to auto trash. ancient weapons trivialized the game.
Blizzard customer service support: pretty much worthless. took them 2 season to listen to the community about the worthlessness of Trial keys. basically, the 2 "community" legendaries are worthless, especially the ring.
Imo perma ban is adequate for any exploit including turbo hud.
Imo this is bullshit. If you'd try turbohud you will most likely realize that the only thing that needs to be done with this thing is to implement 90% of its features in the live game by Blizz.
@Silvach: You also seem to not be getting a point here; A lot of people exploited this because of their past experience with the way Blizzard handled exploits on the live servers. It's not a justification, it's reality. If you don't accept it then you are living in a dream world where everything has to be perfect and whoever cheats gets his head chopped off. This fact needs to put you in perspective i think. Try to understand where people are coming from, not everyone diasgreeing with you here is automatically trying to defend MC.
@Kamui: Seriously? Fom, crypt and wh are better than rifts? The same map over and over again? With the most horrible itemization ever with the retarded auction house? "veterans" might agree that it's better just because of nostalgia. Ros is better than vanilla ten times fold. Also, the coe ring is not useless...
Imo perma ban is adequate for any exploit including turbo hud.
Imo this is bullshit. If you'd try turbohud you will most likely realize that the only thing that needs to be done with this thing is to implement 90% of its features in the live game by Blizz.
@Silvach: You also seem to not be getting a point here; A lot of people exploited this because of their past experience with the way Blizzard handled exploits on the live servers. It's not a justification, it's reality. If you don't accept it then you are living in a dream world where everything has to be perfect and whoever cheats gets his head chopped off. This fact needs to put you in perspective i think. Try to understand where people are coming from, not everyone diasgreeing with you here is automatically trying to defend MC.
@Kamui: Seriously? Fom, crypt and wh are better than rifts? The same map over and over again? With the most horrible itemization ever with the retarded auction house? "veterans" might agree that it's better just because of nostalgia. Ros is better than vanilla ten times fold. Also, the coe ring is not useless...
Like knowing in advance what pylons there are + what affixes the elite packs have to know to avoid some when multiple paths are available?
Yeah.. no.
The rest of the features like dps meters and whatnot yes, but they already stated ages ago they don't want to turn this into a 2nd wow and make people focus on meters etc etc,.
It's off topic but still...
That's why i said 90%... The small map hack thud provides is probably one of the few thigns that we don't need in game - Although the in game minimap is retarded and doesn't show shit like mobs, packs, chests, etc...
"The rest of the features" are a lot more valueable than dps meters. And also, blizzard stated ages ago many things that eventually changed.
Many of the turbohud features would improve the game immensly if implemented. Ruling them out without even trying to understand how good they are is just ignorance. What, because of your principles, you are fine with gimping yourself for an indefinite period of time?
Players should voice an outcry to implement turbohud features in the game, not fight turbohud as if its pure evil, it's actually freakin' awesome and it's sad that Blizzard wants to keep D3 as casual as possible. I've said it in the past - i think they should introduce an "advanced" mode in game where it would enable the display of many things like dps meters, hourly / daily averages, more indication of procs / items / buffs, etc, etc...
I am still confused as to why this is considered cheating. I didn't use the exploit, I was working when I heard about it, scheduled with my friends to do the exploit, then found it an hour later that they were going to hotfix it and punish the exploiters. Too bad for me.
However, I don't see this as an exploit, much less a cheat. How is using game mechanics to your advantage cheating? A similar example from WoW(Vanilla): UBRS drakes; line of sighting their aoe by stacking your 40 man raid in a corner of a door jam. This is using game mechanis: line of site, and a doorway, to progress. This was just a strat. How is it any different than than the blood shard thing? It isn't.
Also, another example of exploiting game mechanics: having set bonuses for 1 class whose damage stats are separate multipliers as opposed to other classes set pieces being additive bonuses. This set up a certain class, DH, to be the best dps where the other classes couldn't compete because their set bonuses were additive and not separately multiplicative. Should all DH's from season 2 get punished for exploiting a bug in game mechanics to their advantage?
As a side note, capping the max bloodshards that drop to 250 for every rift level above, what is it? like 45 or something? to fix the bloodshard bug is ridiculous; as evidenced by my ridicule.
Also, I think there may be a bug with wizards and slow time bubble damage and pain enhancer gem. See guys doing crazy damage from that gem with the time bubble buff when they have 2.2 million stat sheet dps buffed not counting elemental damage modifiers, and no +physical damage. If anyone else could test this out, I don't have a wizard, to see what is going on, that would be great.
I am still confused as to why this is considered cheating. I didn't use the exploit, I was working when I heard about it, scheduled with my friends to do the exploit, then found it an hour later that they were going to hotfix it and punish the exploiters. Too bad for me.
However, I don't see this as an exploit, much less a cheat. How is using game mechanics to your advantage cheating? A similar example from WoW(Vanilla): UBRS drakes; line of sighting their aoe by stacking your 40 man raid in a corner of a door jam. This is using game mechanis: line of site, and a doorway, to progress. This was just a strat. How is it any different than than the blood shard thing? It isn't.
Also, another example of exploiting game mechanics: having set bonuses for 1 class whose damage stats are separate multipliers as opposed to other classes set pieces being additive bonuses. This set up a certain class, DH, to be the best dps where the other classes couldn't compete because their set bonuses were additive and not separately multiplicative. Should all DH's from season 2 get punished for exploiting a bug in game mechanics to their advantage?
As a side note, capping the max bloodshards that drop to 250 for every rift level above, what is it? like 45 or something? to fix the bloodshard bug is ridiculous; as evidenced by my ridicule.
Also, I think there may be a bug with wizards and slow time bubble damage and pain enhancer gem. See guys doing crazy damage from that gem with the time bubble buff when they have 2.2 million stat sheet dps buffed not counting elemental damage modifiers, and no +physical damage. If anyone else could test this out, I don't have a wizard, to see what is going on, that would be great.
This is actually pretty fascinating. The only reply I can muster is that I takes all the intellect of a human mind to decipher the answer to that question "will I get banned?".
Rather than blather on about stories winding all the way back to Everquest and Ultima Online, And how once upon a time a pro gamer Athene triple checked a crazy boss "strategy" with a GM AND screen-shotted the conversation AND STILL had the kill wound back and nullified,
I'll just say answering the question "will I get banned?" is more of a craft than a science.
When I view the blood shard situation in this thread, I'm not even the least bit surprised to hear that bans were issued, because of how my mind processes all the little aspects of it.
I'm also not at all surprised to hear the poem of silly fuck ups associated with the list of previous exploits and "situations" as the came up in D3...
I can totally, 100% understand why certain players feel why they wanted to cheat (and that should answer ruksak's question, although it was answered already before you asked 5 times again). Why did he cheat? BECAUSE EVERYBODY CHEATED.
That's bullshit, Bags. He didn't answer me, he went back like the snake he is and edited in his answer to a post I read the night before. Why would you back him up on that? He avoided my direct and calmly posed question, and then answered it retroactively in a post he made 15 (FIFTEEN) hours earlier. You get that bit, right?
PS: I didn't cheat, you didn't cheat, so where are you getting this "everybody cheated" from? Everybody did NOT cheat. Cheaters cheated and honest players did not.
@MannerCookie: Props to the honest words in your OP. And I hope you come back eventually - your contribution to the community for barbs and crusaders was incredible, especially on 2.2 PTR you were like a one-man QA army.
Christ......if you had mentioned an alien or a spaceship, I'd consider this to be some great science fiction you just wrote. Mannercookie drew attention to exploits and in-game issues with the same subtlety that Timothy McVeigh drew attention to Federal Law Enforcement overreach.....he blew shit up with all the clumsy tactic of a vandal.
No, I would not blame the police if I get a speeding ticket (in fact I got a ticket and did not blame them). So didn't MannerCookie, he said the the ban was justified and he doesn't plea to get unbanned, he only elaborates on why the ban came somewhat "random" and unexpected. I really feel you did either not read or not understand his point of view.
If you want to use traffic as an analogy; I see people break traffic laws EVERY TIME I drive, every time. That doesn't make me think I can speed too and get away with it. 43 years old, and I have never had a moving violation, not one. Because I don't cheat, I follow the rules. Because I follow the rules, I don't get tickets.
For two days I told people they were going to get busted for taking part in this exploit. ....and they did. I got blasted at Bnet for warning players to stay away from this, many responded with mockery about how blizzard doesn't care. I told them that just because Blizzard displayed inaction in the past, it doesn't mean they won't do it now, or in the future.
This was a destructive exploit to the season construct, and I knew it.....and I don't even play seasons.
The cheaters cheated and the honest players did not, that is the only descriptor available for this event.
Wow. Let it go people (cough, cough-rucksak cough). It's a fucking video game. Who gives a damn if he did or didn't answer your question. You people act like he raped somebody or something.
I am still confused as to why this is considered cheating. I didn't use the exploit, I was working when I heard about it, scheduled with my friends to do the exploit, then found it an hour later that they were going to hotfix it and punish the exploiters. Too bad for me.
However, I don't see this as an exploit, much less a cheat. How is using game mechanics to your advantage cheating? A similar example from WoW(Vanilla): UBRS drakes; line of sighting their aoe by stacking your 40 man raid in a corner of a door jam. This is using game mechanis: line of site, and a doorway, to progress. This was just a strat. How is it any different than than the blood shard thing? It isn't.
Also, another example of exploiting game mechanics: having set bonuses for 1 class whose damage stats are separate multipliers as opposed to other classes set pieces being additive bonuses. This set up a certain class, DH, to be the best dps where the other classes couldn't compete because their set bonuses were additive and not separately multiplicative. Should all DH's from season 2 get punished for exploiting a bug in game mechanics to their advantage?
As a side note, capping the max bloodshards that drop to 250 for every rift level above, what is it? like 45 or something? to fix the bloodshard bug is ridiculous; as evidenced by my ridicule.
Also, I think there may be a bug with wizards and slow time bubble damage and pain enhancer gem. See guys doing crazy damage from that gem with the time bubble buff when they have 2.2 million stat sheet dps buffed not counting elemental damage modifiers, and no +physical damage. If anyone else could test this out, I don't have a wizard, to see what is going on, that would be great.
This is actually pretty fascinating. The only reply I can muster is that I takes all the intellect of a human mind to decipher the answer to that question "will I get banned?".
Rather than blather on about stories winding all the way back to Everquest and Ultima Online, And how once upon a time a pro gamer Athene triple checked a crazy boss "strategy" with a GM AND screen-shotted the conversation AND STILL had the kill wound back and nullified,
I'll just say answering the question "will I get banned?" is more of a craft than a science.
When I view the blood shard situation in this thread, I'm not even the least bit surprised to hear that bans were issued, because of how my mind processes all the little aspects of it.
I'm also not at all surprised to hear the poem of silly fuck ups associated with the list of previous exploits and "situations" as the came up in D3...
This whole situation has just made me sad at both some of the playerbase and the developers.
The fact that people keep calling this "cheating" is beyond me. Everything about this game is an exercise in exploiting game mechanics, intended or otherwise. Rift fishing, exploiting game mechanics. Conduit fishing, exploiting game mechanics. Rolling a DH, exploiting class imbalance. Perma-fear docs, exploiting game mechanics. The list goes on and on.
The point is, this is a game that is about finding the most efficient route to an end goal. If that goal is to top the leaderboards, then you exploit every single game mechanic that exists to get the gear needed to compete for a top spot. Just because this was an unintended bug by the developers, doesn't change that fact. To me, the fact that they should have known it existed in the PTR, and didn't fix it, places the blame squarely on their shoulders, and punishing players for that mistake is a joke itself.
The traffic analogy that has been floating around this thread is missing some key similarities. This more akin to a 70 MPH speed limit sign being mistakenly put on a road that was supposed to be 45. The posted speed limit is 70, so even though a logical person can deduce that it must be a mistake, given the road and prior knowledge of speed limits, a cop CANNOT give a speeding ticket to a person doing 65.
Back to the game world. Exploits that do not directly affect other players (like killing other HC characters) and that do not use 3rd party software (like a map hack) should not be considering cheating, and certainly should not come with a punishment. It's using game mechanics handed to the players and finding a way to utilize them for maximum efficiency. The "holier than thou" attitude that some people seem to have adopted is just absurd.
Wow. Let it go people (cough, cough-rucksak cough). It's a fucking video game. Who gives a damn if he did or didn't answer your question. You people act like he raped somebody or something.
I did let it go. Until somebody (*cough cough Bagstone) suggested that I continued to ask after the question was answered, and that was not true.
I was genuinely curious how MC would answer the simple question. why a person in his position would cheat and risk his account.
I did NOT blast MC in this thread, other than to call him a snake for answering a question by editing it into a post he made 15 hours previously, a post that wasn't there when I read it.
Wow. Let it go people (cough, cough-rucksak cough). It's a fucking video game. Who gives a damn if he did or didn't answer your question. You people act like he raped somebody or something.
I did let it go. Until somebody (*cough cough Bagstone) suggested that I continued to ask after the question was answered, and that was not true.
I was genuinely curious how MC would answer the simple question. why a person in his position would cheat and risk his account.
I did NOT blast MC in this thread, other than to call him a snake for answering a question by editing it into a post he made 15 hours previously, a post that wasn't there when I read it.
Why would he cheat? To be competitive versus other cheaters, its a multiplayer game after all. Do you need more explanation or you are just dumb so you cannot understand? Most of top D3 people exploited it, so to still be competitive he did it himself. Now stop being a douchebag and let it go.
Being critical of one another's ideas is a good thing in any community, so it seems the effect of MC's post is ultimately beneficial for us all.
What I find most fascinating (and concerning) about this whole issue is how many of those who abused the exploit aren't connecting their actions with the punishment. They blame Blizzard. Their logic seems to be that since Blizzard released a patch with a bug, it's automatically Blizzard's fault. And since it's Blizzard's fault, why should they be punished? These players don't seem to realize that it was their choice to abuse it, and that choice is being punished. Any sensible person who saw this bug happen would immediately realize that wasn't the intent and that it needed to be fixed. They must've known, then, that what they were doing was "wrong" in the sense that the design didn't meet the intent (in the same way that the letter of the law can diverge from the spirit of said law). Yet, they seem to refuse to hold themselves accountable and link Blizzard's flawed design and their punishment with their own action.
I also find it interesting how people are analogizing real life. Speeding, murder, and terrorism have all been brought up here. Wow. The escalation is intense for such an ultimately inane and banal event. But, I suppose that speaks to the strong feeling of fairness and desire for justice this community feels. It's a good thing. But I question if such comparisons are truly analogous. Perhaps.
To me, this whole thing seems like a bureaucratic mistake. My analogy would be speeding, kind of. But more like there are two speed limit signs some distance apart. Both say 18 mph. But, the guy working on the second one didn't get the bolt right, it came lose and flipped over to look like 81, sort of. And so, some people drove by and see 81 and so they gun it, though they very well know the speed limit is 18. Everything's obviously upside down. Then, when the cop pulls them over, they're like, "Wha? The sign says 81!" Nice try. You made a choice. The wrong one. Accept it and move on.
But anyway, there are no 18 mph signs that I've ever seen.
It's funny to me that MC, and all the streamers that exploited, are having their character attacked as well. I seriously doubt that any of these guys (girls?) are bad people. It's fundamental attribution error. They most likely aren't bad people in real life any more than they are actually good at killing zombies in real life. In fact, when the zombies come streamers would be the VERY LAST people I want on my team. Except for maybe MHM, if he really is a meathead, so long as he can still run a sub-14 2-mile. Gotta be able to move over ground, still.
Wow. Let it go people (cough, cough-rucksak cough). It's a fucking video game. Who gives a damn if he did or didn't answer your question. You people act like he raped somebody or something.
I did let it go. Until somebody (*cough cough Bagstone) suggested that I continued to ask after the question was answered, and that was not true.
I was genuinely curious how MC would answer the simple question. why a person in his position would cheat and risk his account.
I did NOT blast MC in this thread, other than to call him a snake for answering a question by editing it into a post he made 15 hours previously, a post that wasn't there when I read it.
Why would he cheat? To be competitive versus other cheaters, its a multiplayer game after all. Do you need more explanation or you are just dumb so you cannot understand? Most of top D3 people exploited it, so to still be competitive he did it himself. Now stop being a douchebag and let it go.
To be competitive vs. other cheaters, haha. That is a glorious response. Telling people to stop being a douche while being a douche is a nice touch too.
Wow. Let it go people (cough, cough-rucksak cough). It's a fucking video game. Who gives a damn if he did or didn't answer your question. You people act like he raped somebody or something.
I did let it go. Until somebody (*cough cough Bagstone) suggested that I continued to ask after the question was answered, and that was not true.
I was genuinely curious how MC would answer the simple question. why a person in his position would cheat and risk his account.
I did NOT blast MC in this thread, other than to call him a snake for answering a question by editing it into a post he made 15 hours previously, a post that wasn't there when I read it.
Why would he cheat? To be competitive versus other cheaters, its a multiplayer game after all. Do you need more explanation or you are just dumb so you cannot understand? Most of top D3 people exploited it, so to still be competitive he did it himself. Now stop being a douchebag and let it go.
So I have to let it go but you don't? Real cool, brochacho. Calling me a "douchebag" and "dumb" isn't making your case.
This Lance Armstrong excuse doesn't fly. It never has, and it never will. If he was genuinely concerned about other players using this exploit to supplant him on the leaderboards, he could've reported it and watched his competitors fall.
Presuming Blizzard wouldn't act was incorrect, was it not? The fact remains; What people thought and what actually happened are two very different things. As it turned out, had he reported this exploit and not cheated, his account wouldn't have been banned and his competitors would've been rolled back underneath him. Therefor; He made the wrong choice and he should own it.
This reasoning that blizzard displayed inaction in the past is weak at best. Even as a non-season player, a non-streamer, a non-pro gamer, I knew this exploit would see repercussion, and it did.
So who's the dummy now?
BTW: Those of you demanding that I leave the thread because I have a different opinion on the matter, all while you guys continue to post, is fucking pathetic and childish. I have as much right to post my opinion as anyone else here. Do so without calling me names and insulting me, please.
He cheated because he doesn't like the game. He feels forced to playing it. He streamed the cheat because he's an attention seeking person. He was banned, while others were rolled back, because he streamed it and encourage others to do the same cheat(this is Blizzards biggest no no).
I only have one question regarding this whole thing. Why isn't he banned from Twitch.tv?
Cheating is never acceptable in life. Maybe when you all grow older and maturer you'll learn that cheating is bad and those who cheat should be punished appropriately.
It's too bad we couldn't have had an honest, straightforward and mature conversation about all this. I tried, as is reflected by my posts here. I was respectful, and even complimented and defended MC a few times while stating my points and asking straight questions.
There are going to be different opinions, but there is no reason for the vitriolic posts by many here.
It's too bad we couldn't have had an honest, straightforward and mature conversation about all this. I tried, as is reflected by my posts here. I was respectful, and even complimented and defended MC a few times while stating my points and asking straight questions.
There are going to be different opinions, but there is no reason for the vitriolic posts by many here.
mate, you are too argumentative for your own good. All that tension will ruin your health. On the plus side you can really take a break of diablofans and go jogging or something..
you are always looking for an honest straightforward and mature conversation, I can't understand it, there are plenty of stuff you can do in your day which are more entertaining than being obsessed about arguments. Everything is good in moderation, if you start looking for arguments everywhere.
Guy : " The sky is blue ! "
Ruksak: " No, the sky isn't blue. That is how you perceive it ! blablablablabla. do you understand, guy?
Seriously, I can totaly see this happening in real life.
I'm one of the few here NOT calling names and attacking people. I go weeks without posting here, but I found this topic intriguing. Forgive me for actually talking like a civil human being.
Again, you're making it personal. Funny how this thread is about me and not Mannercookie.
You guys enjoy the rest of this thread's life. MC already checked out, and I'll do the same. Forgive me for engaging MC on the topic of his own goddamn thread. It must be because I'm a loser that has nothing better to do in life.
I don't get all of the hate for Manner. The guy put in tons of hours testing out a game and providing quality feedback to improve it, so that when it hits live, it would be better for everyone else who plays it casually.
His videos were amazing for anyone looking to play the classes that he tested. He provided a wealth of information for the player base that not many other people take the time to do or explain.
Him being the only one receiving a ban is also complete BS. There were tons of people who used this exploit, the whole DNA clan has been using it for some time now and keeping it a secret. Manner forced them to fix it by streaming it to the masses. If this is what has to be done in order for Blizzard to take action, then why is it Manner's fault?
Blizzard has internal testers, they have the ability to see the average amount of bloodshards per playtime over hundreds of hours. You would think that they could look at the data and see that there was something wrong.
@Ruksak - you are the classic forum troll who spends more time on the forums than playing the game. You don't insult manner in your posts but are extremely passive aggressive in nature which is why he responds to you the way that he does. You do it to incite a negative response from him and then continue to provoke him when he doesn't give you the answer that you want. He cheated because everyone else was doing it and didn't choose to report it. Why is he the only player in the player base that should be held to a higher standard than the rest? The fact that he chooses to stream his game play to share with others shouldn't be the justification as to why he is banned and others are not. In order for this bug to get the attention that it required, someone had to do something to make sure that it got their immediate attention. A bug report would not have received the same attention that his stream does.
People need to be a little more grateful for people like manner who spend their time contributing tons of info based on their experience to the community.
After 5 pages we now know the good players from the trash. Cant wait to troll them in the future
Yep, you're in the trash column. Your stupidity != trolling. Don't care if I get infracted for this, you are way beyond trying hard for attention. Big balls posting from an anonymous account. Sick of the bnet children. I think I like the gold spammers more than you.
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ModeratorOf course, absolutely. The majority of people that abused this exploit only did this because Blizzard had completely ignored previous exploits, only fixing them afterwards and never punishing the actual exploiters. Those exploits were even made public on the official forum with comments like "use it as long as it's not fixed", and there was no moderation of such threads. It was a pretty clear message: we don't care if you exploit your way to the top.
But seriously, why dafuq was he the only one. while everyone else got rolled back. Heck, a checked out one of Gaby's streams. DNA clan should get perma banned and not rolled back.
If mannercookies wanted to quit, he should've just pulled a KingKongor. delete all his characters with all items in character inventory.
@Ruksuk, dude I've played D3 since vanilla, and RoS versus vanilla MP10 days, D3v wins automatically. Decaying Crypt > FoM > weeping Hollow. was 100 times more fun that any Grift. I've talked several veteran players like myself who've agreed. Why do we play this over PoE/torchlight/etc? because there really isnt anything better to play. you could tell it by mannercookies tone when he spoke during stream. he hated the game.
Ancient leg destroyed the meta IMO. at least for weapons. you find a corrupted ashbringer and its not ancient equates to auto trash. ancient weapons trivialized the game.
Blizzard customer service support: pretty much worthless. took them 2 season to listen to the community about the worthlessness of Trial keys. basically, the 2 "community" legendaries are worthless, especially the ring.
THEY HATE US, CUZ THEY AIN'T US
Imo this is bullshit. If you'd try turbohud you will most likely realize that the only thing that needs to be done with this thing is to implement 90% of its features in the live game by Blizz.
@Silvach: You also seem to not be getting a point here; A lot of people exploited this because of their past experience with the way Blizzard handled exploits on the live servers. It's not a justification, it's reality. If you don't accept it then you are living in a dream world where everything has to be perfect and whoever cheats gets his head chopped off. This fact needs to put you in perspective i think. Try to understand where people are coming from, not everyone diasgreeing with you here is automatically trying to defend MC.
@Kamui: Seriously? Fom, crypt and wh are better than rifts? The same map over and over again? With the most horrible itemization ever with the retarded auction house? "veterans" might agree that it's better just because of nostalgia. Ros is better than vanilla ten times fold. Also, the coe ring is not useless...
It's off topic but still...
That's why i said 90%... The small map hack thud provides is probably one of the few thigns that we don't need in game - Although the in game minimap is retarded and doesn't show shit like mobs, packs, chests, etc...
"The rest of the features" are a lot more valueable than dps meters. And also, blizzard stated ages ago many things that eventually changed.
Many of the turbohud features would improve the game immensly if implemented. Ruling them out without even trying to understand how good they are is just ignorance. What, because of your principles, you are fine with gimping yourself for an indefinite period of time?
Players should voice an outcry to implement turbohud features in the game, not fight turbohud as if its pure evil, it's actually freakin' awesome and it's sad that Blizzard wants to keep D3 as casual as possible. I've said it in the past - i think they should introduce an "advanced" mode in game where it would enable the display of many things like dps meters, hourly / daily averages, more indication of procs / items / buffs, etc, etc...
I am still confused as to why this is considered cheating. I didn't use the exploit, I was working when I heard about it, scheduled with my friends to do the exploit, then found it an hour later that they were going to hotfix it and punish the exploiters. Too bad for me.
However, I don't see this as an exploit, much less a cheat. How is using game mechanics to your advantage cheating? A similar example from WoW(Vanilla): UBRS drakes; line of sighting their aoe by stacking your 40 man raid in a corner of a door jam. This is using game mechanis: line of site, and a doorway, to progress. This was just a strat. How is it any different than than the blood shard thing? It isn't.
Also, another example of exploiting game mechanics: having set bonuses for 1 class whose damage stats are separate multipliers as opposed to other classes set pieces being additive bonuses. This set up a certain class, DH, to be the best dps where the other classes couldn't compete because their set bonuses were additive and not separately multiplicative. Should all DH's from season 2 get punished for exploiting a bug in game mechanics to their advantage?
As a side note, capping the max bloodshards that drop to 250 for every rift level above, what is it? like 45 or something? to fix the bloodshard bug is ridiculous; as evidenced by my ridicule.
Also, I think there may be a bug with wizards and slow time bubble damage and pain enhancer gem. See guys doing crazy damage from that gem with the time bubble buff when they have 2.2 million stat sheet dps buffed not counting elemental damage modifiers, and no +physical damage. If anyone else could test this out, I don't have a wizard, to see what is going on, that would be great.
This is actually pretty fascinating. The only reply I can muster is that I takes all the intellect of a human mind to decipher the answer to that question "will I get banned?".
Rather than blather on about stories winding all the way back to Everquest and Ultima Online, And how once upon a time a pro gamer Athene triple checked a crazy boss "strategy" with a GM AND screen-shotted the conversation AND STILL had the kill wound back and nullified,
I'll just say answering the question "will I get banned?" is more of a craft than a science.
When I view the blood shard situation in this thread, I'm not even the least bit surprised to hear that bans were issued, because of how my mind processes all the little aspects of it.
I'm also not at all surprised to hear the poem of silly fuck ups associated with the list of previous exploits and "situations" as the came up in D3...
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Wise ElderThat's bullshit, Bags. He didn't answer me, he went back like the snake he is and edited in his answer to a post I read the night before. Why would you back him up on that? He avoided my direct and calmly posed question, and then answered it retroactively in a post he made 15 (FIFTEEN) hours earlier. You get that bit, right?
PS: I didn't cheat, you didn't cheat, so where are you getting this "everybody cheated" from? Everybody did NOT cheat. Cheaters cheated and honest players did not.
Christ......if you had mentioned an alien or a spaceship, I'd consider this to be some great science fiction you just wrote. Mannercookie drew attention to exploits and in-game issues with the same subtlety that Timothy McVeigh drew attention to Federal Law Enforcement overreach.....he blew shit up with all the clumsy tactic of a vandal.
If you want to use traffic as an analogy; I see people break traffic laws EVERY TIME I drive, every time. That doesn't make me think I can speed too and get away with it. 43 years old, and I have never had a moving violation, not one. Because I don't cheat, I follow the rules. Because I follow the rules, I don't get tickets.
For two days I told people they were going to get busted for taking part in this exploit. ....and they did. I got blasted at Bnet for warning players to stay away from this, many responded with mockery about how blizzard doesn't care. I told them that just because Blizzard displayed inaction in the past, it doesn't mean they won't do it now, or in the future.
This was a destructive exploit to the season construct, and I knew it.....and I don't even play seasons.
The cheaters cheated and the honest players did not, that is the only descriptor available for this event.
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Curse PremiumWow. Let it go people (cough, cough-rucksak cough). It's a fucking video game. Who gives a damn if he did or didn't answer your question. You people act like he raped somebody or something.
This whole situation has just made me sad at both some of the playerbase and the developers.
The fact that people keep calling this "cheating" is beyond me. Everything about this game is an exercise in exploiting game mechanics, intended or otherwise. Rift fishing, exploiting game mechanics. Conduit fishing, exploiting game mechanics. Rolling a DH, exploiting class imbalance. Perma-fear docs, exploiting game mechanics. The list goes on and on.
The point is, this is a game that is about finding the most efficient route to an end goal. If that goal is to top the leaderboards, then you exploit every single game mechanic that exists to get the gear needed to compete for a top spot. Just because this was an unintended bug by the developers, doesn't change that fact. To me, the fact that they should have known it existed in the PTR, and didn't fix it, places the blame squarely on their shoulders, and punishing players for that mistake is a joke itself.
The traffic analogy that has been floating around this thread is missing some key similarities. This more akin to a 70 MPH speed limit sign being mistakenly put on a road that was supposed to be 45. The posted speed limit is 70, so even though a logical person can deduce that it must be a mistake, given the road and prior knowledge of speed limits, a cop CANNOT give a speeding ticket to a person doing 65.
Back to the game world. Exploits that do not directly affect other players (like killing other HC characters) and that do not use 3rd party software (like a map hack) should not be considering cheating, and certainly should not come with a punishment. It's using game mechanics handed to the players and finding a way to utilize them for maximum efficiency. The "holier than thou" attitude that some people seem to have adopted is just absurd.
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Wise ElderI did let it go. Until somebody (*cough cough Bagstone) suggested that I continued to ask after the question was answered, and that was not true.
I was genuinely curious how MC would answer the simple question. why a person in his position would cheat and risk his account.
I did NOT blast MC in this thread, other than to call him a snake for answering a question by editing it into a post he made 15 hours previously, a post that wasn't there when I read it.
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Why would he cheat? To be competitive versus other cheaters, its a multiplayer game after all. Do you need more explanation or you are just dumb so you cannot understand? Most of top D3 people exploited it, so to still be competitive he did it himself. Now stop being a douchebag and let it go.
Being critical of one another's ideas is a good thing in any community, so it seems the effect of MC's post is ultimately beneficial for us all.
What I find most fascinating (and concerning) about this whole issue is how many of those who abused the exploit aren't connecting their actions with the punishment. They blame Blizzard. Their logic seems to be that since Blizzard released a patch with a bug, it's automatically Blizzard's fault. And since it's Blizzard's fault, why should they be punished? These players don't seem to realize that it was their choice to abuse it, and that choice is being punished. Any sensible person who saw this bug happen would immediately realize that wasn't the intent and that it needed to be fixed. They must've known, then, that what they were doing was "wrong" in the sense that the design didn't meet the intent (in the same way that the letter of the law can diverge from the spirit of said law). Yet, they seem to refuse to hold themselves accountable and link Blizzard's flawed design and their punishment with their own action.
I also find it interesting how people are analogizing real life. Speeding, murder, and terrorism have all been brought up here. Wow. The escalation is intense for such an ultimately inane and banal event. But, I suppose that speaks to the strong feeling of fairness and desire for justice this community feels. It's a good thing. But I question if such comparisons are truly analogous. Perhaps.
To me, this whole thing seems like a bureaucratic mistake. My analogy would be speeding, kind of. But more like there are two speed limit signs some distance apart. Both say 18 mph. But, the guy working on the second one didn't get the bolt right, it came lose and flipped over to look like 81, sort of. And so, some people drove by and see 81 and so they gun it, though they very well know the speed limit is 18. Everything's obviously upside down. Then, when the cop pulls them over, they're like, "Wha? The sign says 81!" Nice try. You made a choice. The wrong one. Accept it and move on.
But anyway, there are no 18 mph signs that I've ever seen.
It's funny to me that MC, and all the streamers that exploited, are having their character attacked as well. I seriously doubt that any of these guys (girls?) are bad people. It's fundamental attribution error. They most likely aren't bad people in real life any more than they are actually good at killing zombies in real life. In fact, when the zombies come streamers would be the VERY LAST people I want on my team. Except for maybe MHM, if he really is a meathead, so long as he can still run a sub-14 2-mile. Gotta be able to move over ground, still.
To be competitive vs. other cheaters, haha. That is a glorious response. Telling people to stop being a douche while being a douche is a nice touch too.
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Wise ElderSo I have to let it go but you don't? Real cool, brochacho. Calling me a "douchebag" and "dumb" isn't making your case.
This Lance Armstrong excuse doesn't fly. It never has, and it never will. If he was genuinely concerned about other players using this exploit to supplant him on the leaderboards, he could've reported it and watched his competitors fall.
Presuming Blizzard wouldn't act was incorrect, was it not? The fact remains; What people thought and what actually happened are two very different things. As it turned out, had he reported this exploit and not cheated, his account wouldn't have been banned and his competitors would've been rolled back underneath him. Therefor; He made the wrong choice and he should own it.
This reasoning that blizzard displayed inaction in the past is weak at best. Even as a non-season player, a non-streamer, a non-pro gamer, I knew this exploit would see repercussion, and it did.
So who's the dummy now?
BTW: Those of you demanding that I leave the thread because I have a different opinion on the matter, all while you guys continue to post, is fucking pathetic and childish. I have as much right to post my opinion as anyone else here. Do so without calling me names and insulting me, please.
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He cheated because he doesn't like the game. He feels forced to playing it. He streamed the cheat because he's an attention seeking person. He was banned, while others were rolled back, because he streamed it and encourage others to do the same cheat(this is Blizzards biggest no no).
I only have one question regarding this whole thing. Why isn't he banned from Twitch.tv?
Cheating is never acceptable in life. Maybe when you all grow older and maturer you'll learn that cheating is bad and those who cheat should be punished appropriately.
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Wise Elder"Wow" what?
It's too bad we couldn't have had an honest, straightforward and mature conversation about all this. I tried, as is reflected by my posts here. I was respectful, and even complimented and defended MC a few times while stating my points and asking straight questions.
There are going to be different opinions, but there is no reason for the vitriolic posts by many here.
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Wise ElderI'm one of the few here NOT calling names and attacking people. I go weeks without posting here, but I found this topic intriguing. Forgive me for actually talking like a civil human being.
Again, you're making it personal. Funny how this thread is about me and not Mannercookie.
You guys enjoy the rest of this thread's life. MC already checked out, and I'll do the same. Forgive me for engaging MC on the topic of his own goddamn thread. It must be because I'm a loser that has nothing better to do in life.
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I don't get all of the hate for Manner. The guy put in tons of hours testing out a game and providing quality feedback to improve it, so that when it hits live, it would be better for everyone else who plays it casually.
His videos were amazing for anyone looking to play the classes that he tested. He provided a wealth of information for the player base that not many other people take the time to do or explain.
Him being the only one receiving a ban is also complete BS. There were tons of people who used this exploit, the whole DNA clan has been using it for some time now and keeping it a secret. Manner forced them to fix it by streaming it to the masses. If this is what has to be done in order for Blizzard to take action, then why is it Manner's fault?
Blizzard has internal testers, they have the ability to see the average amount of bloodshards per playtime over hundreds of hours. You would think that they could look at the data and see that there was something wrong.
@Ruksak - you are the classic forum troll who spends more time on the forums than playing the game. You don't insult manner in your posts but are extremely passive aggressive in nature which is why he responds to you the way that he does. You do it to incite a negative response from him and then continue to provoke him when he doesn't give you the answer that you want. He cheated because everyone else was doing it and didn't choose to report it. Why is he the only player in the player base that should be held to a higher standard than the rest? The fact that he chooses to stream his game play to share with others shouldn't be the justification as to why he is banned and others are not. In order for this bug to get the attention that it required, someone had to do something to make sure that it got their immediate attention. A bug report would not have received the same attention that his stream does.
People need to be a little more grateful for people like manner who spend their time contributing tons of info based on their experience to the community.
After 5 pages we now know the good players from the trash. Cant wait to troll them in the future
Yep, you're in the trash column. Your stupidity != trolling. Don't care if I get infracted for this, you are way beyond trying hard for attention. Big balls posting from an anonymous account. Sick of the bnet children. I think I like the gold spammers more than you.
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