call him. pathetic old man who cant even save his own family has nothing on me! ill keep closing every rift after rg unless someone can PROVE its somehow better to full clear
It's RNG. Either way CAN give you more legendaries per hour and over a long enough timeline, I'm sure they are almost perfectly even. Your chances of drops and blood thieves in a full clear should be nearly equal to the extra guaranteed ~100 bloodshards from closing. Some people are simply too invested in their image of how fast they can complete a rift. Some people just really don't like key farming. This sets up some hateful debates on the issue, but it's really preference and outside of RNG deviations, should be about the same as far as gear.
Kill and Close = guaranteed bloodshards, but possibly fewer and targeted slots
Full Clear = RNG for more bloodshards and rare drops you might want but not be targeting
It's RNG. Either way CAN give you more legendaries per hour and over a long enough timeline, I'm sure they are almost perfectly even. Your chances of drops and blood thieves in a full clear should be nearly equal to the extra guaranteed ~100 bloodshards from closing. Some people are simply too invested in their image of how fast they can complete a rift. Some people just really don't like key farming. This sets up some hateful debates on the issue, but it's really preference and outside of RNG deviations, should be about the same as far as gear.
Kill and Close = guaranteed bloodshards, but possibly fewer and targeted slots
Full Clear = RNG for more bloodshards and rare drops you might want but not be targeting
this is flawed logic isnt it? the only difference between full clear and kill and close is the 30 seconds between rifts. full clear does not rng for more blood shards or rare drops because a rift is a rift. the trade off is the quicker blood shards versus 30 seconds+keystone.
basically im saying i think 30seconds+keystone is well worth more blood shards from closing the rift. any argument against that can only be saying 30seconds+keystone is not worth more rg blood shard drops. any argument mentioning the possibility of blood thieves and more legs just dont work because the chance of getting those after a rg is the same as before a rg. unless blizzard instituted a secret bonus on drops post rg, these arguments simply cant be used.
I usually continuing a rift after kill if its a "Good" one. Easy mobs, many mobs and whatnot. Or atleast to the lvl it getting bad mob, like angels and such.
I'm the same, I like to poke my head into the next level down after killing the RG.. sometimes it skeletons and zombies. To me that's worth doing.
I had one yesterday though where it was Trees, Charge Beasts, Charge Angels, Exarchs and those Winged thingos that shoot the fireballs from A3.
I died once and said yeah kthxbai and closed it.
It's RNG. Either way CAN give you more legendaries per hour and over a long enough timeline, I'm sure they are almost perfectly even. Your chances of drops and blood thieves in a full clear should be nearly equal to the extra guaranteed ~100 bloodshards from closing. Some people are simply too invested in their image of how fast they can complete a rift. Some people just really don't like key farming. This sets up some hateful debates on the issue, but it's really preference and outside of RNG deviations, should be about the same as far as gear.
Kill and Close = guaranteed bloodshards, but possibly fewer and targeted slots
Full Clear = RNG for more bloodshards and rare drops you might want but not be targeting
this is flawed logic isnt it? the only difference between full clear and kill and close is the 30 seconds between rifts. full clear does not rng for more blood shards or rare drops because a rift is a rift. the trade off is the quicker blood shards versus 30 seconds+keystone.
basically im saying i think 30seconds+keystone is well worth more blood shards from closing the rift. any argument against that can only be saying 30seconds+keystone is not worth more rg blood shard drops. any argument mentioning the possibility of blood thieves and more legs just dont work because the chance of getting those after a rg is the same as before a rg. unless blizzard instituted a secret bonus on drops post rg, these arguments simply cant be used.
Not at all. What are the odds I roll a 1 in the first five tries compared to the odds of rolling a 1 over 25 tries?
When the rift is opened, the elites are determined. If there are 25 elites, any of those 25 could be a goblin instead. If you only kill the first 5 encountered, you reduce the odds of finding the goblin that did spawn. You instead are gambling on one of the first 5 being the one, and if not, rerolling the elites to try the first 5 of the next rift.
Edit: I'm considering a moment to check my logic...
I may have to eat crow, but correct my mistake it you see it. Using those made up numbers from before:
1 out of 25 is 4%
Only killing the first 5 would divide by 5, so .8%, then doing 5 times is back to 4%. The simple math indicates they are equal.
However, you have added 4 x 30 seconds to kill speed. A single blood thief drops 300-500 shards, I think, and there can be more than 1 in a rift. By the odds, it should basically be equal over time, then, as I stated.
If you are going for more GUARANTEED bloodshards, kill and close will do that. The chance that you closed a rift where RNG blessed you with blood thief (thieves), however, can, in the short term, put the full clearer ahead.
Edit: Edit:
As I consider this, this may require much more than the simple odds formulas due to all the elites being determined at the rift opening... My understanding was that goblins are elites that rolled successfully to be a goblin. I'm not sure this is the same as saying each has a 4% chance. It depends on how the RNG is done behind the curtain; e.g.s it a % chance per rift or is each elite given a % chance roll.
There's no point in clearing the regular Rift after killing the Rift Guardian is there? Instead of clearing it, wouldn't you be better off just starting a new one?
Thank god there's at least one other person who views it the same way; I can't stand public games because there's always one or two people who want to continue the rift after the R G is dead. It makes zero sense;
*There's no 'promised' loot if you kill more in the same rift. Killing mobs after the R G has the exact same chance of loot as starting a new one.
This means that not only clearing a rift after the R G is dead doesn't somehow give you more loot, you're actually giving yourself LESS loot overall, because you'll have spent so much time NOT working towards blood shards that you can gamble with.
Anyway, whatever, back into my hole as I solo clear rifts
*shrug* Depends how much you cant' be arsed with Bounties after getting your Ancient RoRG really.
I'm low on Rift fragments this season because I had some luck with the ring and find Bounties really boring. I'd prefer to clear rifts "mostly" fully just because rift drop rates are better than outside and you get the most "rift time" per fragment.
But I do'nt feel so strongly about it I'd hold a public game to ransom over it thats just douchey
When I was still gearing through blood shards to complete my set, we cleared to RG then closed to reopen, now that we're geared we full clear rifts since you never know when you'll find a blood thief or tormentor, or an entire goblin pack.
IMO if you want to do just shards say so at the beginning of a rift then everyone can stay or leave, its not all about bloodshards drop from kadala sucks or at least for me it does, i prefer full clears
I always stay and clear if the current floor isn't garbage, or the next floor isn't garbage. I ALWAYS stay and clear the "Warden" jail maps because I seem to always find more legendaries there.
Anyways, I do either. I ran with someone earlier who only cleared elites and gobs and the guardian all the way to the bottom. Seemed to be just as effective as clearing everything and closing in the same amount of time. Kinda broke it up a bit for me.
I think it depends on the group. If the group is slower than sharding is the best way but if your group is smashing the content then full clears are way better. I like doing full clears though just because gob packs and exp. Kadala is a cop out
the chance of legendary is the same, in the first case you get more bloodshards but use more keys
That's exactly why they aren't the same. Thanks for agreeing. One gets your more shards. One gets you more drops. Per key, of course, but i figured anyone would be able to understand that seeing as how the posts above me were referring to a per key basis. Sorry for not spelling it out for you all.
Personally I do both but it all depends on how the Rift 'feels' and if I can be bothered doing another fresh one, also depends if it's Season or Open. If early season I will full clear at least till I am able to do T4 at a reasonable speed, not really for gear or anything, it's just what I do, no rhyme or logic to it, just habit.
For example, a good high density level I will go and full clear it and see what the next level looks like. If it's a low density, I will close it, if it's high I will keep going.
If I only have more than 100 keys, I will speed clear till back down to 90 (when farming RoRG you get large amounts of keys in short periods of time). This is mainly to free up space and to convert keys to trial keys asap.
With GR's I like to slow run them till 25 or so, then I ask in clan chat or in a different channel if someone was starting a GR lvl 1 and if I can join, I then pay with my 25+ key to avoid having to farm more. That is assuming I no longer need to level leg gems because by then I no longer need a RoRG thus not too many keys and bounties are a pain in the ass by that point, even at T8.
Yes I know not many of my methods show logic, but really it just boils down to 'Good density? Full clear, bad density...close and do a new one...unless I am bored, then I just do whatever'.
Putting some kind of benefit from completing a normal rift to the end would be nice. What do you guys think ?
Like double XP or increased drop rates after the RG is dead. It would be a nice touch.
I have only seen gob packs in certain rifts (ones with open space) so I like at least looking around those levels if we kill a rg on it. I suggest it to the party when I know they usually speed run. Most guys I have played will at least check it out if you say something.
@Rayden_Weiss: That would mean that you are forced to clear them, and also if the implementation sucks (you don't have to kill the mobs, or most of them), you just kill the RG and run to the end of it for a nice exp boost, it becomes a tiresome task we have to do at the end of each rift, and if trials are any indication, players are getting sick of these little gimmicks quite fast. And this is just the obvious answer, I'm sure that experienced devs can find more issues with your idea on the spot. Granted anything can be made to work, but then you have to ask yourself if complicating an design idea is worth the confusion blanket you put over your less experienced players, which just so happens to be your majority patrons.
You already have some advantages for looking in all the corners of a rift, mainly for goblin packs. If we were to assume that 1 in 10 t6 rifts has a goblin horde in it, and in 5 out of 10 of these cases they are located after the line of completing the rift (guardian kill and all), then you are wasting half of your chances of stocking up on reagents/plans/shards/gems etc. Granted, not all rifts have layouts to limit our view on this possibility (if it's just one level, chances are we will get those pesky gobs), but in the end wasting keystone after keystone just doesn't seem to be worth it. At least this way, clearing the elites gives a real viable competition to closing the rift, exp, gold, items, you have many reasons to keep going, and less to open anew.
However I do see this as an issue, and increasing the rewards when completing them will alleviate some of these "going forward" philosophies, and turn people regularly to bounties.
"That would mean that you are forced to clear them" - Not necessarily. It depends on your goal. You wouldn't keep cleaning the rift after RG is dead if you just want fast blood shards or just trial keys.
"you just kill the RG and run to the end of it for a nice exp boost" - Thanks god we do have some control to optimize our grinding... People already do that since 2.0 came live. Make RG spawn as fast as possible, kill it, leave. I don't think this control over your objective is a tiring gimmick, but the exact opposite of it. You can aim and go straight to your goal.
"You already have some advantages for looking in all the corners of a rift" - No, we don't. If you chose to clear the entire rift you are just wasting time, because you will have the exact same experience and drop rates if you open a new rift, except that you will get more keys and shards much faster.
"If we were to assume that 1 in 10 t6 rifts has a goblin horde in it, and in 5 out of 10 of these cases they are located after the line of completing the rift (guardian kill and all), then you are wasting half of your chances of stocking up on reagents/plans/shards/gems etc. Granted" - Dude... you are stretching to much on this. This is RNG.... you can't just "assume" those numbers...
The only reason for me is Gob packs on later levels after the RG kill. I have found way more packs this way than just going for the RG and then closing the rift.
Op, you should join the seasonal rifting community(and the few others like it as well). Just type in chat that you are looking to speed farm t6 for trial keys. I do the same thing when i wanna do full clears.
My friend and I did 30 torment 5 full-clear rifts. We ended up finding at least 10 blood thief's, and 5 goblin packs (one even double spawned!!!), all of them after the guardian. We'd have missed them if we closed.
We only really found the odd treasure goblin before the guardian, so yeah. Maybe it's RNG and a small sample size, but we've found it's better to continue actually now because we ended up with thousands of shards more than we would have otherwise.
call him. pathetic old man who cant even save his own family has nothing on me! ill keep closing every rift after rg unless someone can PROVE its somehow better to full clear
It's RNG. Either way CAN give you more legendaries per hour and over a long enough timeline, I'm sure they are almost perfectly even. Your chances of drops and blood thieves in a full clear should be nearly equal to the extra guaranteed ~100 bloodshards from closing. Some people are simply too invested in their image of how fast they can complete a rift. Some people just really don't like key farming. This sets up some hateful debates on the issue, but it's really preference and outside of RNG deviations, should be about the same as far as gear.
Kill and Close = guaranteed bloodshards, but possibly fewer and targeted slots
Full Clear = RNG for more bloodshards and rare drops you might want but not be targeting
this is flawed logic isnt it? the only difference between full clear and kill and close is the 30 seconds between rifts. full clear does not rng for more blood shards or rare drops because a rift is a rift. the trade off is the quicker blood shards versus 30 seconds+keystone.
basically im saying i think 30seconds+keystone is well worth more blood shards from closing the rift. any argument against that can only be saying 30seconds+keystone is not worth more rg blood shard drops. any argument mentioning the possibility of blood thieves and more legs just dont work because the chance of getting those after a rg is the same as before a rg. unless blizzard instituted a secret bonus on drops post rg, these arguments simply cant be used.
I'm the same, I like to poke my head into the next level down after killing the RG.. sometimes it skeletons and zombies. To me that's worth doing.
I had one yesterday though where it was Trees, Charge Beasts, Charge Angels, Exarchs and those Winged thingos that shoot the fireballs from A3.
I died once and said yeah kthxbai and closed it.
Not at all. What are the odds I roll a 1 in the first five tries compared to the odds of rolling a 1 over 25 tries?
When the rift is opened, the elites are determined. If there are 25 elites, any of those 25 could be a goblin instead. If you only kill the first 5 encountered, you reduce the odds of finding the goblin that did spawn. You instead are gambling on one of the first 5 being the one, and if not, rerolling the elites to try the first 5 of the next rift.
Edit: I'm considering a moment to check my logic...
I may have to eat crow, but correct my mistake it you see it. Using those made up numbers from before:
1 out of 25 is 4%
Only killing the first 5 would divide by 5, so .8%, then doing 5 times is back to 4%. The simple math indicates they are equal.
However, you have added 4 x 30 seconds to kill speed. A single blood thief drops 300-500 shards, I think, and there can be more than 1 in a rift. By the odds, it should basically be equal over time, then, as I stated.
If you are going for more GUARANTEED bloodshards, kill and close will do that. The chance that you closed a rift where RNG blessed you with blood thief (thieves), however, can, in the short term, put the full clearer ahead.
Edit: Edit:
As I consider this, this may require much more than the simple odds formulas due to all the elites being determined at the rift opening... My understanding was that goblins are elites that rolled successfully to be a goblin. I'm not sure this is the same as saying each has a 4% chance. It depends on how the RNG is done behind the curtain; e.g.s it a % chance per rift or is each elite given a % chance roll.
Thank god there's at least one other person who views it the same way; I can't stand public games because there's always one or two people who want to continue the rift after the R G is dead. It makes zero sense;
*There's no 'promised' loot if you kill more in the same rift. Killing mobs after the R G has the exact same chance of loot as starting a new one.
This means that not only clearing a rift after the R G is dead doesn't somehow give you more loot, you're actually giving yourself LESS loot overall, because you'll have spent so much time NOT working towards blood shards that you can gamble with.
Anyway, whatever, back into my hole as I solo clear rifts
*shrug* Depends how much you cant' be arsed with Bounties after getting your Ancient RoRG really.
I'm low on Rift fragments this season because I had some luck with the ring and find Bounties really boring. I'd prefer to clear rifts "mostly" fully just because rift drop rates are better than outside and you get the most "rift time" per fragment.
But I do'nt feel so strongly about it I'd hold a public game to ransom over it thats just douchey
When I was still gearing through blood shards to complete my set, we cleared to RG then closed to reopen, now that we're geared we full clear rifts since you never know when you'll find a blood thief or tormentor, or an entire goblin pack.
IMO if you want to do just shards say so at the beginning of a rift then everyone can stay or leave, its not all about bloodshards drop from kadala sucks or at least for me it does, i prefer full clears
I always stay and clear if the current floor isn't garbage, or the next floor isn't garbage. I ALWAYS stay and clear the "Warden" jail maps because I seem to always find more legendaries there.
Anyways, I do either. I ran with someone earlier who only cleared elites and gobs and the guardian all the way to the bottom. Seemed to be just as effective as clearing everything and closing in the same amount of time. Kinda broke it up a bit for me.
I think it depends on the group. If the group is slower than sharding is the best way but if your group is smashing the content then full clears are way better. I like doing full clears though just because gob packs and exp. Kadala is a cop out
uh one is 3 keys one is 1 key. does not look the same at all.
That's exactly why they aren't the same. Thanks for agreeing. One gets your more shards. One gets you more drops. Per key, of course, but i figured anyone would be able to understand that seeing as how the posts above me were referring to a per key basis. Sorry for not spelling it out for you all.
Personally I do both but it all depends on how the Rift 'feels' and if I can be bothered doing another fresh one, also depends if it's Season or Open. If early season I will full clear at least till I am able to do T4 at a reasonable speed, not really for gear or anything, it's just what I do, no rhyme or logic to it, just habit.
For example, a good high density level I will go and full clear it and see what the next level looks like. If it's a low density, I will close it, if it's high I will keep going.
If I only have more than 100 keys, I will speed clear till back down to 90 (when farming RoRG you get large amounts of keys in short periods of time). This is mainly to free up space and to convert keys to trial keys asap.
With GR's I like to slow run them till 25 or so, then I ask in clan chat or in a different channel if someone was starting a GR lvl 1 and if I can join, I then pay with my 25+ key to avoid having to farm more. That is assuming I no longer need to level leg gems because by then I no longer need a RoRG thus not too many keys and bounties are a pain in the ass by that point, even at T8.
Yes I know not many of my methods show logic, but really it just boils down to 'Good density? Full clear, bad density...close and do a new one...unless I am bored, then I just do whatever'.
Putting some kind of benefit from completing a normal rift to the end would be nice. What do you guys think ?
Like double XP or increased drop rates after the RG is dead. It would be a nice touch.
"Do you guys not have phones?"
I have only seen gob packs in certain rifts (ones with open space) so I like at least looking around those levels if we kill a rg on it. I suggest it to the party when I know they usually speed run. Most guys I have played will at least check it out if you say something.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/pantherdane-1591/hero/39933784
"That would mean that you are forced to clear them" - Not necessarily. It depends on your goal. You wouldn't keep cleaning the rift after RG is dead if you just want fast blood shards or just trial keys.
"you just kill the RG and run to the end of it for a nice exp boost" - Thanks god we do have some control to optimize our grinding... People already do that since 2.0 came live. Make RG spawn as fast as possible, kill it, leave. I don't think this control over your objective is a tiring gimmick, but the exact opposite of it. You can aim and go straight to your goal.
"You already have some advantages for looking in all the corners of a rift" - No, we don't. If you chose to clear the entire rift you are just wasting time, because you will have the exact same experience and drop rates if you open a new rift, except that you will get more keys and shards much faster.
"If we were to assume that 1 in 10 t6 rifts has a goblin horde in it, and in 5 out of 10 of these cases they are located after the line of completing the rift (guardian kill and all), then you are wasting half of your chances of stocking up on reagents/plans/shards/gems etc. Granted" - Dude... you are stretching to much on this. This is RNG.... you can't just "assume" those numbers...
"Do you guys not have phones?"
The only reason for me is Gob packs on later levels after the RG kill. I have found way more packs this way than just going for the RG and then closing the rift.
Op, you should join the seasonal rifting community(and the few others like it as well). Just type in chat that you are looking to speed farm t6 for trial keys. I do the same thing when i wanna do full clears.
My friend and I did 30 torment 5 full-clear rifts. We ended up finding at least 10 blood thief's, and 5 goblin packs (one even double spawned!!!), all of them after the guardian. We'd have missed them if we closed.
We only really found the odd treasure goblin before the guardian, so yeah. Maybe it's RNG and a small sample size, but we've found it's better to continue actually now because we ended up with thousands of shards more than we would have otherwise.
And may the odds be ever in your favour.
Emmo#2406
Doing regular T6 rifts for shards is a total waste of time. Do GRs between 34 and 37. You get tons of them plus lots of XP...