People don't seem to understand the value/utility of the skill, which is constant uptime. When you are moving, you aren't doing damage. And even with Trail of Cinders, Vaulting isn't always a desirable option because you will either A. land too close to the target if jumping over them, B. land into a frozen orb, or C. die from the lag between the cast and the actual movement.
Strafe, on the other hand, is instantaneous movement while attacking, allowing you to precisely move between fire and frozen orbs on the ground, avoid those pesky mortars, and even dodge melee swings from the enemy. All while doing damage. When combined with a hard hitting generator like Poison Bolas, you can essentially keep 160% weapon damage on a group of enemies constantly, while doing it in style.
Two things I'd add is that ~25% movement is extremely useful and going dual 1H Xbows helps with Hatred generation.
So you're telling me I do more damage by channeling a low DPS ability and moving somewhere than by vaulting there almost instantly in between shots and continuing to do high DPS?
I've tried to get Strafe to work way too often to know that it simply doesn't. Even with >40% crit and using the double damage on crit rune it still deals horrible DPS compared to anything.
So you're telling me I do more damage by channeling a low DPS ability and moving somewhere than by vaulting there almost instantly in between shots and continuing to do high DPS?
I've tried to get Strafe to work way too often to know that it simply doesn't. Even with >40% crit and using the double damage on crit rune it still deals horrible DPS compared to anything.
This is my point in that people don't understand its utility. There are countless anti-range affixes that require small amounts of movements to reposition yourself where vault isn't ideal. And the minority of players have legacy Nat's to accomodate constant vaulting everytime a mortar is launched, or frozen orbs/arcane sentries surround you. Or better yet, how about mobs that are just ranged attackers normally? I'd like to see how much time is spent dodging projectiles when you run into spear throwers or those vultures that spit fireballs. Or skeleton archers.
See, once you get good at strafe you can avoid pretty much avoid every attack in the game while constantly attacking (using the movement speed rune). And the channel is 160% weapon damage - which is higher than your generators and elemental arrows (albeit only single target). The next A3 run you do, try to take note of how much time you spend repositioning yourself or stutter-stepping.
So you're telling me I do more damage by channeling a low DPS ability and moving somewhere than by vaulting there almost instantly in between shots and continuing to do high DPS?
I've tried to get Strafe to work way too often to know that it simply doesn't. Even with >40% crit and using the double damage on crit rune it still deals horrible DPS compared to anything.
This is my point in that people don't understand its utility. There are countless anti-range affixes that require small amounts of movements to reposition yourself where vault isn't ideal. And the minority of players have legacy Nat's to accomodate constant vaulting everytime a mortar is launched, or frozen orbs/arcane sentries surround you. Or better yet, how about mobs that are just ranged attackers normally? I'd like to see how much time is spent dodging projectiles when you run into spear throwers or those vultures that spit fireballs. Or skeleton archers.
See, once you get good at strafe you can avoid pretty much avoid every attack in the game while constantly attacking (using the movement speed rune). And the channel is 160% weapon damage - which is higher than your generators and elemental arrows (albeit only single target). The next A3 run you do, try to take note of how much time you spend repositioning yourself or stutter-stepping.
Come back to me when you're on 220+ dps unbuffed 1 shotting everything then tell me about stutter movement etc. Everything is situational, I now just blow the crap out of everything with cluster runed with rockets + ballistics and 500% crit hit damage / 48% crit
220k dps unbuffed represents what, less than 1% of the demon hunter population? So the situation you present is an exception, not the norm. That's great that you can kill stuff fast, but it doesn't make Strafe any less viable to the rest of us, or to you when you run into Shielding/Extra Health or warping mobs like Phase Beasts.
I think the skill would be much more viable if it allowed you to move through mobs like whirlwind, I always got trapped in a death ball of monsters every time I tried to use it. I found the damage to be lacking as well, but I haven't tried it since the patch.
+1 for this post. Definitely the most underrated skill imo. Of course, if you got enough damage to clear end game content without having to worry much about kitting more than 30 sec it's ok. On the other hand, if you want to kite indefinitely while producing damage output, it's definitely the skill. I would'nt play without strafe anymore.
I think the skill would be much more viable if it allowed you to move through mobs like whirlwind, I always got trapped in a death ball of monsters every time I tried to use it. I found the damage to be lacking as well, but I haven't tried it since the patch.
I think the skill would be much more viable if it allowed you to move through mobs like whirlwind, I always got trapped in a death ball of monsters every time I tried to use it. I found the damage to be lacking as well, but I haven't tried it since the patch.
Use vault and problem is solved.
Not really, because using that discipline for Gloom is almost required if you're going to be in that close in the first place.
Strafe is underrated. Just beat inferno with a build that utilizes strafe. I use strafe against 1-3 enemies at once, never more than 4. http://us.battle.net...YdRV!Ybe!Zbaccb
Strategy:
For non-champs/elites, spam nethers at groups of 3 or more. Vault through enemies when safe. When enemies get too close for comfort, spam cluster grenades to stun/kill quickly. Utilize caltrops to slow while spamming nethers and granades, and prep to heal when pots are on cooldown.
For champs/elites, spam nethers when far away. When they get close, vault through, then strafe to move farther away. When elites get super close, spam cluster grenades until they are about to hit you, vault through, strafe. If elites are on merc/other player, strafe around them and watch the crit numbers pour out. Strafe is almost extremely valuable on Diablo or other bosses where you need to move to avoid something but still want to keep damaging them.
I completely skipped out on ias stuff and went with 1 xbow and shield. Strafe hits harder and takes less resource when you have low ias, but it still hits the same amount as if you had more ias.
Nethers shoot slower, but the damage is higher, and you get the same heals.
Cluster grenades make mobs flinch more when they cast slower because of higher damage, which is super nice.
I'm not sure why so many people pretend that DH's are so fragile. I'm almost always right in front of mobs of enemies spamming grenades and I don't die as often as others. I farm act 3 with 37k dps, 60 something crit chance, and less than 200% crit damage, with 42k health.
Can't wait to get a spider pet that can actually be a meat shield when 1.0.5 releases. It's going to be so fun.
Edit: By the way, notice I don't use sharpshooter, smoke screen, or gloom. I used gloom a little bit when trying to kill Belial on inferno, but ultimately gave it up. It's definitely not a skill I like to use on account of the spamming and the super short duration. I learned to live without the cheap skill/passive.
I learned to live without the cheap skill/passive.
Well half all of your stats except dps and let me know how that works for you. I don't bother with strafe because I can 1-2 shot most things on the screen for a lot less hatred. I guess using discipline to avoid damage is cheap compared to hatred... ah well we all can't be super awesome at life.
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Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
Use evasive fire to trigger tactical advantage every 2 secs and you will be moving at lightning speed while dealing damage.
Woohoo, that 2 seconds of speedy strafing is amazing!
I should know by now that I need to better state things on these boards for people like you.
Strafe is hella fun with my 40% WF. Its a great "utility" ability because if I get surrounded I can strafe to safety while knocking things back. Besides that bit of utility it is a shitty skill in most every other situation. It is terrible for single target damage, it is even worse for AoE damage. Yes, the basic utility of moving while shooting is fine, but unless you want to completely waste a passive on "Tactical Advantage" you are never going to have the movement speed while strafing to really matter. Yes, Tactical Advantage is a complete and total waste of a passive. The additional movement speed after vaulting, popping smoke screen, or wasting discipline on the evasive fire flip is utterly pointless as each of those abilities (if used properly) should get you away from w/e is threatening you.
Why waste passives on Tactical Advantage and Nightstalker, thus losing massive amount of DPS, when you can take passives that directly boost your damage so you don't need the additional movement speed and discipline? Like honestly, it makes no sense at all. Maybe once PvP comes out they will be truly beneficial for that, but for the basic game they are garbage passives for a class that should be striving to 1 and 2 shot mobs.
I learned to live without the cheap skill/passive.
Well half all of your stats except dps and let me know how that works for you. I don't bother with strafe because I can 1-2 shot most things on the screen for a lot less hatred. I guess using discipline to avoid damage is cheap compared to hatred... ah well we all can't be super awesome at life.
I'm not sure why you insist on posting in a thread dedicated to showing people that strafe isn't a useless skill when you don't use it, don't want to use it, and provide hostility toward those who have successfully pulled it off.
I'm very, very far from being elite (the most gold I've had at one time is 6mil, and that was a week ago from finding/selling a soj). I probably play less than 3 hours a day, not every day, and it took me about a month or two to completely beat the game. I wouldn't count that as impressive at all.
For the record, I used this setup from start to finish, act 1 of normal to act 4 of inferno, with very few changes to skills(such as stun grenades and rocket cluster), and I beat the whole game (excluding Diablo) completely solo. I spent less than 2mil gold on my current setup (I'm pretty sure it was close to 1.5mil) and was able to get all the way up to inferno Diablo without problem (my two friends help me kill him/her).
My input isn't to gloat about how awesome I am; it's to show that strafe is a damn awesome skill and can easily be a staple skill to use throughout the entire game. The skill is definitely underrated, and I'm a bit surprised that strafe and grenades are seen as crap skills.
For champs/elites, spam nethers when far away. When they get close, vault through, then strafe to move farther away.
So what you are saying is that you are using a Trail of Cinders build with strafe as a method to do some extra damage (probably 10% of your overall damage thanks to ToC) while getting away. Evasive Fire would do the trick as well and in the end you are not relying on strafe but on ToC, an OP skill that will be nerfed in 1.05. It would be quite interesting to see how you're doing without ToC.
Now in 1.05 a grenade strafe build might get viable. Grenades do AoE damage and quite a lot of that (instead all the other strafe runes, even 100% crit damage at 80% cc is not really worth it compared to your other skills). Drawback is that it's quite hard to hit enemies.
1.05 will reduce enemies damage so it might be possible to go for some tank items and use shadow power (life leech rune) in line with strafe. With shadow power you have to activate it before using strafe and you will get the life leech as long as you are strafing (no life leech when activated while strafing). Now you could just strafe around monsters while having chain sentry and chakram (passive rune) active. Hitting monsters with grenades is not much of a problem at point blank range (and remember that you get added damage and leech from chakram and sentry or damage caltrops).
Currently it's not really working that well. At least if you haven't something like 65/65+ Reduction and 40k+ life and enough damage for life leech or Legacy Natalyas to cast Gloom over and over again. And Jailers are a pain in the ass (stops strafing).
I think what you said is fair. I do use ToC a lot (especially on champs/elites), but I do really think strafe is a good skill to use right after using ToC. It's great to vault away from an enemy, watch them run after you through the fire, all the while casting strafe and damaging them as I kite them. Super efficient.
With .5 coming out, I hope that I'll be able to rely a little less on ToC (though I will be keeping it, as before I only used it for mobility) and more on some other skills/variations of my current skills. I'm definitely looking forward to using a real pet, which will help me a lot.
I would use strafe if 1:
instead of slowing my movespeed, it keept it at 100% or increased it without a rune
cost less hatred
hit all enemys every shit rathr than just some pitiful single target thing
I should mention that the only rune I've had success using is Drifting Shadow, and that's really where the utility for Strafe (from my experience) comes from. The movement penalty with the other runes is just too harsh to effectively avoid attacks, and Strafe isn't really an ability designed to do great damage. I mean if it did amazing damage the skill would be ridiculously overpowered.
The tradeoff of it doing less damage than other hatred spenders is the utility of doing damage while moving/dodging, inbetween your primary attack.
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Strafe, on the other hand, is instantaneous movement while attacking, allowing you to precisely move between fire and frozen orbs on the ground, avoid those pesky mortars, and even dodge melee swings from the enemy. All while doing damage. When combined with a hard hitting generator like Poison Bolas, you can essentially keep 160% weapon damage on a group of enemies constantly, while doing it in style.
Two things I'd add is that ~25% movement is extremely useful and going dual 1H Xbows helps with Hatred generation.
This is my point in that people don't understand its utility. There are countless anti-range affixes that require small amounts of movements to reposition yourself where vault isn't ideal. And the minority of players have legacy Nat's to accomodate constant vaulting everytime a mortar is launched, or frozen orbs/arcane sentries surround you. Or better yet, how about mobs that are just ranged attackers normally? I'd like to see how much time is spent dodging projectiles when you run into spear throwers or those vultures that spit fireballs. Or skeleton archers.
See, once you get good at strafe you can avoid pretty much avoid every attack in the game while constantly attacking (using the movement speed rune). And the channel is 160% weapon damage - which is higher than your generators and elemental arrows (albeit only single target). The next A3 run you do, try to take note of how much time you spend repositioning yourself or stutter-stepping.
220k dps unbuffed represents what, less than 1% of the demon hunter population? So the situation you present is an exception, not the norm. That's great that you can kill stuff fast, but it doesn't make Strafe any less viable to the rest of us, or to you when you run into Shielding/Extra Health or warping mobs like Phase Beasts.
You are wrong. You can use strafe while moving at more than 100% movement speed. Here is the build i use:
"Lightspeed strafe"
Use evasive fire to trigger tactical advantage every 2 secs and you will be moving at lightning speed while dealing damage.
Use vault and problem is solved.
Not really, because using that discipline for Gloom is almost required if you're going to be in that close in the first place.
Strategy:
For non-champs/elites, spam nethers at groups of 3 or more. Vault through enemies when safe. When enemies get too close for comfort, spam cluster grenades to stun/kill quickly. Utilize caltrops to slow while spamming nethers and granades, and prep to heal when pots are on cooldown.
For champs/elites, spam nethers when far away. When they get close, vault through, then strafe to move farther away. When elites get super close, spam cluster grenades until they are about to hit you, vault through, strafe. If elites are on merc/other player, strafe around them and watch the crit numbers pour out. Strafe is almost extremely valuable on Diablo or other bosses where you need to move to avoid something but still want to keep damaging them.
I completely skipped out on ias stuff and went with 1 xbow and shield. Strafe hits harder and takes less resource when you have low ias, but it still hits the same amount as if you had more ias.
Nethers shoot slower, but the damage is higher, and you get the same heals.
Cluster grenades make mobs flinch more when they cast slower because of higher damage, which is super nice.
I'm not sure why so many people pretend that DH's are so fragile. I'm almost always right in front of mobs of enemies spamming grenades and I don't die as often as others. I farm act 3 with 37k dps, 60 something crit chance, and less than 200% crit damage, with 42k health.
Can't wait to get a spider pet that can actually be a meat shield when 1.0.5 releases. It's going to be so fun.
Edit: By the way, notice I don't use sharpshooter, smoke screen, or gloom. I used gloom a little bit when trying to kill Belial on inferno, but ultimately gave it up. It's definitely not a skill I like to use on account of the spamming and the super short duration. I learned to live without the cheap skill/passive.
Well half all of your stats except dps and let me know how that works for you. I don't bother with strafe because I can 1-2 shot most things on the screen for a lot less hatred. I guess using discipline to avoid damage is cheap compared to hatred... ah well we all can't be super awesome at life.
Woohoo, that 2 seconds of speedy strafing is amazing!
I should know by now that I need to better state things on these boards for people like you.
Strafe is hella fun with my 40% WF. Its a great "utility" ability because if I get surrounded I can strafe to safety while knocking things back. Besides that bit of utility it is a shitty skill in most every other situation. It is terrible for single target damage, it is even worse for AoE damage. Yes, the basic utility of moving while shooting is fine, but unless you want to completely waste a passive on "Tactical Advantage" you are never going to have the movement speed while strafing to really matter. Yes, Tactical Advantage is a complete and total waste of a passive. The additional movement speed after vaulting, popping smoke screen, or wasting discipline on the evasive fire flip is utterly pointless as each of those abilities (if used properly) should get you away from w/e is threatening you.
Why waste passives on Tactical Advantage and Nightstalker, thus losing massive amount of DPS, when you can take passives that directly boost your damage so you don't need the additional movement speed and discipline? Like honestly, it makes no sense at all. Maybe once PvP comes out they will be truly beneficial for that, but for the basic game they are garbage passives for a class that should be striving to 1 and 2 shot mobs.
I'm not sure why you insist on posting in a thread dedicated to showing people that strafe isn't a useless skill when you don't use it, don't want to use it, and provide hostility toward those who have successfully pulled it off.
I'm very, very far from being elite (the most gold I've had at one time is 6mil, and that was a week ago from finding/selling a soj). I probably play less than 3 hours a day, not every day, and it took me about a month or two to completely beat the game. I wouldn't count that as impressive at all.
For the record, I used this setup from start to finish, act 1 of normal to act 4 of inferno, with very few changes to skills(such as stun grenades and rocket cluster), and I beat the whole game (excluding Diablo) completely solo. I spent less than 2mil gold on my current setup (I'm pretty sure it was close to 1.5mil) and was able to get all the way up to inferno Diablo without problem (my two friends help me kill him/her).
My input isn't to gloat about how awesome I am; it's to show that strafe is a damn awesome skill and can easily be a staple skill to use throughout the entire game. The skill is definitely underrated, and I'm a bit surprised that strafe and grenades are seen as crap skills.
I think what you said is fair. I do use ToC a lot (especially on champs/elites), but I do really think strafe is a good skill to use right after using ToC. It's great to vault away from an enemy, watch them run after you through the fire, all the while casting strafe and damaging them as I kite them. Super efficient.
With .5 coming out, I hope that I'll be able to rely a little less on ToC (though I will be keeping it, as before I only used it for mobility) and more on some other skills/variations of my current skills. I'm definitely looking forward to using a real pet, which will help me a lot.
Jailers suck forever.
instead of slowing my movespeed, it keept it at 100% or increased it without a rune
cost less hatred
hit all enemys every shit rathr than just some pitiful single target thing
or, return the amazons strafe thing. that rocked
Agreed. Damn I miss my Brand bow and Jah'd Windforce with D2 strafe.
The tradeoff of it doing less damage than other hatred spenders is the utility of doing damage while moving/dodging, inbetween your primary attack.