Don't want to dig in a specific build, but in my opinion transcendence is best for a build with a high spirit generation and therefore spending.
Using golden runes on spirit generators, other spirit generating skills (runed) and passives and a frequently used spirit dump.
Make the most out of synergies
Oh I don't intend on using this build outside of mucking about when I get bored of other setups I have in mind. For monk in particular I'm going to work on a tanking duel wield and a high spirit generation 2h build, by the way I was going to put both of them up probably tonight to see what the community thinks of them.
Though this one particular build I thought really should be looked at because it may have some serious potential. As of now we really do not know the capeability of this type of build until the game is officially released. (speaking of which I am deeply saddened about the news of Q2 release)
@Rym: Thanks for the video! I did not know we had recent footage of it (not blizzcon). Still the graphic looks quite slow but it appears the range was improved. I did not know that you were already deciding to commit to Mantra so heavily. Still as you said Breath of Heaven is a good skill to second guess because of your already high dodge (and you can get weapons the convert damage to health). I did not know if you already thought of this option but what about using 7SS or Way with crimson rune instead of using Dashing Strike to get around? I understand that Way + onyx is very synergistic with that build in particular but there still is the option of switching Dashing for 7SS with crimson to maintain a decent mobility. Just a thought.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ h-o-p-e-s.net ┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ) Sorry had to fix that table.
There are quite a few times he uses 7SS AND Wave of Light all in the same build. It looks like the range is quite further than the symbol on the ground but if you notice as well the attacks happen quite quickly (all under 2 seconds it seems).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ h-o-p-e-s.net ┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ) Sorry had to fix that table.
@Rym: Thanks for the video! I did not know we had recent footage of it (not blizzcon). Still the graphic looks quite slow but it appears the range was improved. I did not know that you were already deciding to commit to Mantra so heavily. Still as you said Breath of Heaven is a good skill to second guess because of your already high dodge (and you can get weapons the convert damage to health). I did not know if you already thought of this option but what about using 7SS or Way with crimson rune instead of using Dashing Strike to get around? I understand that Way + onyx is very synergistic with that build in particular but there still is the option of switching Dashing for 7SS with crimson to maintain a decent mobility. Just a thought.
I really like Dashing strike with obsidian rune. The skill gives me mobility, dodge, damage and a root for those quick and possibly tricky casters or range enemies. With combination strike and my generators I think I would be ok. That being said . I am a bit on the fence when it comes to my build.
There are quite a few times he uses 7SS AND Wave of Light all in the same build. It looks like the range is quite further than the symbol on the ground but if you notice as well the attacks happen quite quickly (all under 2 seconds it seems).
If I recall. When that was made wave of light had a lower cost? I could be mistaken. However I know what you mean by they are both used. It could be that spirit is not a problem and that we are all nervous of something that was not to be worried about.
If I recall. When that was made wave of light had a lower cost? I could be mistaken. However I know what you mean by they are both used. It could be that spirit is not a problem and that we are all nervous of something that was not to be worried about.
We don't know exactly when they footage was taken. We do know 2 things though. It is footage that has never been seen before, and it was footage that was released today. You might be correct though. He does the dash followed by 7SS (remember crits give u spirit no matter what move you use) than Wave right after using Way. So he should have the spirit for it. Taking a look now it looks like 7SS used much less than 1/3 of the bar so he probably has the +100 spirit cap passive.
Edit: watched even closer. Looks like it is costing 100, but he doesn't have the passive. Question, how much did it cost before?
It could be from when max spirit was 200 . 7SS has gone from being 50, to 75 ( I don't think it hit 100) . Its been all over the place.
They are similar yet different. I would not mind getting your thoughts Azuresky and Tenhi. I plan to use dashing strike a lot and if i have the spirit the first 3 seconds from mantra of evasion .
Personally I would use the 7SS build. Mainly because we really do not know the usefulness of more healing as opposed to more damage. The only thing I can see that bothers me a tad with 7SS is that Transcendence may only have limited effect since you will most likely not be using every drop of spirit you generate. I suppose popping the Mantra can help with that but I bet you will be overflowing with spirit more so than not.
25 spirit with a 3sec CD I believe when you generate (duel wielding) about 10 per second. This does not even take into account that you have some odd ways to generate spirit, like critting an enemy for example.
Spirit is odd like Fury. There are a few ways to generate it outside the normal generators. Some of them even rely on combat mechanics like taking damage or critting an opponent. Always found that odd when you have classes that need to stay at range and don't get bonuses like that for their resources.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ h-o-p-e-s.net ┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ) Sorry had to fix that table.
Personally I would use the 7SS build. Mainly because we really do not know the usefulness of more healing as opposed to more damage. The only thing I can see that bothers me a tad with 7SS is that Transcendence may only have limited effect since you will most likely not be using every drop of spirit you generate. I suppose popping the Mantra can help with that but I bet you will be overflowing with spirit more so than not.
25 spirit with a 3sec CD I believe when you generate (duel wielding) about 10 per second. This does not even take into account that you have some odd ways to generate spirit, like critting an enemy for example.
Spirit is odd like Fury. There are a few ways to generate it outside the normal generators. Some of them even rely on combat mechanics like taking damage or critting an opponent. Always found that odd when you have classes that need to stay at range and don't get bonuses like that for their resources.
Wait one thing at a time. You get spirit when you crit? this is new to me O.o . With obsidian rune on way of the hundred fist I intend to be getting way more then 10 spirit per second. As for me being overflowed in spirit that could be the case. Would a 30 second cooldown really be that big a difference ? breath of heaven is a good panic button . Not to mention all the dodge form the mantra and dashing strike. However with transcendence using dashing strike and mantra and 7SS would give me a smaller more constant heal rather then a burst. I don't think this would fix that overflow of spirit problem tho. Funny, my build may be one of very few where spirit may be overabundant
I do see where your coming from. Im just playing devils advocate to see what points come up that we did not think of.
First off I put my generators on CD by accident in a dungeon a day or two back and I was generating spirit still in combat. It was not much, however it was there. I don't know if this is a bug or intended so if you have the beta try it yourself (I will do the same in a little bit).
Second, you get around 8.4(sorry had to check the math I was making assumptions from higher speed weapons) spirit per sec while duel wielding without buffs. So you generate much less than you will use on the Mantra.
I would say, after that clarification, 7SS looks very solid. Not as spirit deprived as most builds and provides at least a decent amount of healing over time as well as having a really good outlet for extra spirit. Also I may change Wave of Light on my build to 7SS as well. It's damage arc looks a little too 'straight line' for a melee fighter.
@Tenhi It would be impossible to keep stacks of Combination Strike if you spam ALL of those every chance you get. Dashing Strike is a huge DPS loss with this build seeing as how most of his attacks will ramp up with Way and that one will not. The build is not intending to use Dashing Strike at every chance that would be rather absurd. That would also free up 225 spirit making your net change in spirit to be 252(with the correct total) generated and 350 spent. Still then he said himself that he did not have intent on spamming the Mantra at every available chance.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ h-o-p-e-s.net ┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ) Sorry had to fix that table.
I need more people like you guys in the DH forum. At least in here we have very good discussions about how to properly make a build. Not just make some assumptions at the numbers and accuse each other of being wrong XD
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ h-o-p-e-s.net ┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ) Sorry had to fix that table.
Personally I would use the 7SS build. Mainly because we really do not know the usefulness of more healing as opposed to more damage. The only thing I can see that bothers me a tad with 7SS is that Transcendence may only have limited effect since you will most likely not be using every drop of spirit you generate. I suppose popping the Mantra can help with that but I bet you will be overflowing with spirit more so than not.
25 spirit with a 3sec CD I believe when you generate (duel wielding) about 10 per second. This does not even take into account that you have some odd ways to generate spirit, like critting an enemy for example.
Spirit is odd like Fury. There are a few ways to generate it outside the normal generators. Some of them even rely on combat mechanics like taking damage or critting an opponent. Always found that odd when you have classes that need to stay at range and don't get bonuses like that for their resources.
Since when do you get Spirit if you are hit? Or if you crit? As far as I know you only get Spirit through your Gens. Spirit doesnt behave like Fury.
Also about overflowing with Spirit. He can use Mantra of Evasion every 3sec for 25 Spirit and Dashing Strike every 2sec for 15 Spirit. So in 30sec he generates 10 Spirit/sec*30sec = 300 Spirit (using your 10 Spirit/sec) and he uses 10*25 Spirit+15*15Spirit+2*50Spirit = 575 Spirit... that is if he tries to keep the buffs up.
If we dont account for things like lag and reaction times he uses the above mentioned 575 Spirit during a 30sec fight. To match that Spirit usage he needs a generation of 575Spirit/30sec = 19.167 Spirit/sec. Thats almost double the amount you assumed he would generate... so I guess with spaming Mantra/Dash he is good to go for all we know
Im so happy I took electrocal physics in college. Math seems easier after that. Personally i think Ill be over 10 spirit a second. At lest Id like to be. so whats your opinion Tenhi?
Just logged to the beta and I feel like a silly goose. Well I guess it is not that bad. Apparently your auto attacks generate spirit even if they are not generators. Now I know.
@Rym: did you skip my post clarifying spirit per second?
Quote from azuresky808 »
Second, you get around 8.4(sorry had to check the math I was making assumptions from higher speed weapons) spirit per sec while duel wielding without buffs. So you generate much less than you will use on the Mantra.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ h-o-p-e-s.net ┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ) Sorry had to fix that table.
I need more people like you guys in the DH forum. At least in here we have very good discussions about how to properly make a build. Not just make some assumptions at the numbers and accuse each other of being wrong XD
I know. Its nice to have people who understand. If you ever want to talk about other classes I can try xD weather it be on the forums or a privet message.
As for dashing strike being a drop in DPS I disagree. With obsidian way of the hundred fists I will have a increased attack speed. Dashing strike allows me to put the exploding palm and other parts of my combos exactly where I want them to be. It also can get me from group A to group B. In my build I would not mind using the mantra and dashing strike as often as I can, assuming the spirit allows me to.
I take it your one of the lucky ones that has a beta key? normal attacks should not generate spirit >_> thats not right. could it be a bug?
I need more people like you guys in the DH forum. At least in here we have very good discussions about how to properly make a build. Not just make some assumptions at the numbers and accuse each other of being wrong XD
I know. Its nice to have people who understand. As for dashing strike being a drop in DPS I disagree. With obsidian way of the hundred fists I will have a increased attack speed. Dashing strike allows me to put the exploding palm and other parts of my combos exactly where I want them to be. It also can get me from group A to group B. In my build I would not mind using the mantra and dashing strike as often as I can, assuming the spirit allows me to.
I take it your one of the lucky ones that has a beta key? normal attacks should not generate spirit >_> thats not right. could it be a bug?
I can see your point with dashing. The problem I see is if you time it badly you run the chance of letting the buff fall. The animation also happens in 2 parts. The travel than the attack. The total time spent doing the whole move may be a little higher than you are expecting. On top of that Way's speed buff does not really help much with Dashing I would assume since its animation seems to happen exactly the same way each time. Not to mention it also has a tenancy to teleport behind the enemy if they are close if that has any real meaning to you.
And yes I was blessed with a beta key. That was the main reason for the initial assumption of this build. I ad no clue that you can change the generator mid combo and still retain the combo level. That whole system really opened up other options.
Doing Crippling>Crippling>Exploding is so effective in an AOE you have no idea. XD
Also I have no idea if it is a bug, it was weird to see though. I actually think it is working as intended only because builds that can go without generators (looking at you WD, DH, Wizard) do not generate on attack and Monks and Barb have to.
Edit: if you would like PM me your Bnet tag and I'll add you. (I play WoW and SC2 as well and already own this game from the annual pass)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ h-o-p-e-s.net ┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ) Sorry had to fix that table.
PS:... was doing the math while typing... you forgot the 15% Attackspeed increase for DWing
And @Spirit gain... well I never heard that you get Spirit for autoattacks... could be a bug :/
Yep that I did. I am too used to doing math for slow weapons (srsly take a look at my DH post) that I forget the 15% bonus.
And I have no clue if this is a bug I will post it in a few minutes.
Update: looks like monks generating this way is intended. Barb are able to generate fury from breaking barrels and melee attacks just in case you are wondering
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ h-o-p-e-s.net ┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ) Sorry had to fix that table.
How do you end up with 8.4 Spirit without buffs? I assume 1.4 base Attackspeed (Fist Weapons) and add the 15% Attackspeed bonus for DWing... that puts us at 1.4*1.15 = 1.61 Attacks/sec and thuse we gain 9.66 Spirit/sec. Do you use slower Weapons?
With obsidian way of the hundred fist that goes up to 2.38 attacks per second. so 14.28 spirit per second. Not to mention combos seem to be faster then normal attacks.
How do you end up with 8.4 Spirit without buffs? I assume 1.4 base Attackspeed (Fist Weapons) and add the 15% Attackspeed bonus for DWing... that puts us at 1.4*1.15 = 1.61 Attacks/sec and thuse we gain 9.66 Spirit/sec. Do you use slower Weapons?
With obsidian way of the hundred fist that goes up to 2.38 attacks per second. so 14.28 spirit per second. Not to mention combos seem to be faster then normal attacks.
They seem to be but I can assure you they go at weapon speed. Except the 2nd attack from Way since it states that it hits 'multiple' times.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ h-o-p-e-s.net ┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ) Sorry had to fix that table.
Tenhi has linked this link so many times. I think it applies here ( it took me a second to find it) http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/3811455189 some generators will be faster so that attack per second and in turn spirit per second may go up a bit.
Im shocked Tenhi has not beet me to it to be honest .>_>
Okay after all of this talk I worked over my build once more. Instead of ramping using Way with onyx I'm using crimson to get that extra distance closer. Same can be said for 7SS although that is also a great DPS CD anyway. Breath is used whenever you get low or need to set up the buff again.
I was debating the runes on the Mantra and the Mantra choice itself. I know in Rym's build he is using dodge but I have a feeling that after all is said and done between the 2 passives + Mantra + natural dodge from dexterity you might be running to heavily into diminishing returns to really see much of a bonus. So I chose Mantra of Healing. Still then the runes were a hard choice so I picked one that provides a really good output per activation.
I was also thinking of switching Six Sense to Seize the Initiative for the same issue of diminishing returns. This however is another one of those "we will see when the game ships" changes.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ h-o-p-e-s.net ┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ) Sorry had to fix that table.
Tenhi has linked this link so many times. I think it applies here ( it took me a second to find it) http://us.battle.net...opic/3811455189 some generators will be faster so that attack per second and in turn spirit per second may go up a bit.
Im shocked Tenhi has not beet me to it to be honest .>_>
Wow I have not seen that at all. Good find!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ h-o-p-e-s.net ┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ) Sorry had to fix that table.
@Tenhi Sorry for not seeing your edit before about your build. I really like the idea of it. You have a very mixed tank and with a huge health pool from the ally. I kinda question your choice of Thundering Fist. This is only because, like Way, it is a very focused and close in attack. Entering an AOE situation you might rather have something like Crippling on. Still it can be used to get the debuff out there for tough bosses. 35% less attack speed is a really handy debuff
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ h-o-p-e-s.net ┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ) Sorry had to fix that table.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Though this one particular build I thought really should be looked at because it may have some serious potential. As of now we really do not know the capeability of this type of build until the game is officially released. (speaking of which I am deeply saddened about the news of Q2 release)
@Rym: Thanks for the video! I did not know we had recent footage of it (not blizzcon). Still the graphic looks quite slow but it appears the range was improved. I did not know that you were already deciding to commit to Mantra so heavily. Still as you said Breath of Heaven is a good skill to second guess because of your already high dodge (and you can get weapons the convert damage to health). I did not know if you already thought of this option but what about using 7SS or Way with crimson rune instead of using Dashing Strike to get around? I understand that Way + onyx is very synergistic with that build in particular but there still is the option of switching Dashing for 7SS with crimson to maintain a decent mobility. Just a thought.
h-o-p-e-s.net
┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ)
Sorry had to fix that table.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=U0F2wPZWdYk
There are quite a few times he uses 7SS AND Wave of Light all in the same build. It looks like the range is quite further than the symbol on the ground but if you notice as well the attacks happen quite quickly (all under 2 seconds it seems).
h-o-p-e-s.net
┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ)
Sorry had to fix that table.
If I recall. When that was made wave of light had a lower cost? I could be mistaken. However I know what you mean by they are both used. It could be that spirit is not a problem and that we are all nervous of something that was not to be worried about.
h-o-p-e-s.net
┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ)
Sorry had to fix that table.
So for my build tho Im bouncing between these 2 basically
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#UiedXb!ZWg!ZcccYc
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#Uiedjb!YWg!ZcccYc
They are similar yet different. I would not mind getting your thoughts Azuresky and Tenhi. I plan to use dashing strike a lot and if i have the spirit the first 3 seconds from mantra of evasion .
25 spirit with a 3sec CD I believe when you generate (duel wielding) about 10 per second. This does not even take into account that you have some odd ways to generate spirit, like critting an enemy for example.
Spirit is odd like Fury. There are a few ways to generate it outside the normal generators. Some of them even rely on combat mechanics like taking damage or critting an opponent. Always found that odd when you have classes that need to stay at range and don't get bonuses like that for their resources.
h-o-p-e-s.net
┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ)
Sorry had to fix that table.
I do see where your coming from. Im just playing devils advocate to see what points come up that we did not think of.
First off I put my generators on CD by accident in a dungeon a day or two back and I was generating spirit still in combat. It was not much, however it was there. I don't know if this is a bug or intended so if you have the beta try it yourself (I will do the same in a little bit).
Second, you get around 8.4(sorry had to check the math I was making assumptions from higher speed weapons) spirit per sec while duel wielding without buffs. So you generate much less than you will use on the Mantra.
I would say, after that clarification, 7SS looks very solid. Not as spirit deprived as most builds and provides at least a decent amount of healing over time as well as having a really good outlet for extra spirit. Also I may change Wave of Light on my build to 7SS as well. It's damage arc looks a little too 'straight line' for a melee fighter.
@Tenhi It would be impossible to keep stacks of Combination Strike if you spam ALL of those every chance you get. Dashing Strike is a huge DPS loss with this build seeing as how most of his attacks will ramp up with Way and that one will not. The build is not intending to use Dashing Strike at every chance that would be rather absurd. That would also free up 225 spirit making your net change in spirit to be 252(with the correct total) generated and 350 spent. Still then he said himself that he did not have intent on spamming the Mantra at every available chance.
h-o-p-e-s.net
┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ)
Sorry had to fix that table.
h-o-p-e-s.net
┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ)
Sorry had to fix that table.
@Rym: did you skip my post clarifying spirit per second?
h-o-p-e-s.net
┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ)
Sorry had to fix that table.
As for dashing strike being a drop in DPS I disagree. With obsidian way of the hundred fists I will have a increased attack speed. Dashing strike allows me to put the exploding palm and other parts of my combos exactly where I want them to be. It also can get me from group A to group B. In my build I would not mind using the mantra and dashing strike as often as I can, assuming the spirit allows me to.
I take it your one of the lucky ones that has a beta key? normal attacks should not generate spirit >_> thats not right. could it be a bug?
I can see your point with dashing. The problem I see is if you time it badly you run the chance of letting the buff fall. The animation also happens in 2 parts. The travel than the attack. The total time spent doing the whole move may be a little higher than you are expecting. On top of that Way's speed buff does not really help much with Dashing I would assume since its animation seems to happen exactly the same way each time. Not to mention it also has a tenancy to teleport behind the enemy if they are close if that has any real meaning to you.
And yes I was blessed with a beta key. That was the main reason for the initial assumption of this build. I ad no clue that you can change the generator mid combo and still retain the combo level. That whole system really opened up other options.
Doing Crippling>Crippling>Exploding is so effective in an AOE you have no idea. XD
Also I have no idea if it is a bug, it was weird to see though. I actually think it is working as intended only because builds that can go without generators (looking at you WD, DH, Wizard) do not generate on attack and Monks and Barb have to.
Edit: if you would like PM me your Bnet tag and I'll add you. (I play WoW and SC2 as well and already own this game from the annual pass)
h-o-p-e-s.net
┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ)
Sorry had to fix that table.
Yep that I did. I am too used to doing math for slow weapons (srsly take a look at my DH post) that I forget the 15% bonus.
And I have no clue if this is a bug I will post it in a few minutes.
Update: looks like monks generating this way is intended. Barb are able to generate fury from breaking barrels and melee attacks just in case you are wondering
h-o-p-e-s.net
┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ)
Sorry had to fix that table.
They seem to be but I can assure you they go at weapon speed. Except the 2nd attack from Way since it states that it hits 'multiple' times.
h-o-p-e-s.net
┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ)
Sorry had to fix that table.
Im shocked Tenhi has not beet me to it to be honest .>_>
I was debating the runes on the Mantra and the Mantra choice itself. I know in Rym's build he is using dodge but I have a feeling that after all is said and done between the 2 passives + Mantra + natural dodge from dexterity you might be running to heavily into diminishing returns to really see much of a bonus. So I chose Mantra of Healing. Still then the runes were a hard choice so I picked one that provides a really good output per activation.
I was also thinking of switching Six Sense to Seize the Initiative for the same issue of diminishing returns. This however is another one of those "we will see when the game ships" changes.
h-o-p-e-s.net
┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ)
Sorry had to fix that table.
Wow I have not seen that at all. Good find!
h-o-p-e-s.net
┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ)
Sorry had to fix that table.
h-o-p-e-s.net
┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ)
Sorry had to fix that table.