To add to the 1.09 wishlist would be a queue system for ubers. i know it can get complicated in terms of which people open the portals and under geared ppl queuing for mp10 but a system of the sort would benefit even with the difficulty of trying to figure these things out. Trade and General doesnt cut it from my expierence.
I second this idea! Would it be implemented by selecting "Ubers" the same way that "Monster Slaying" or "Key Warden" is when you create or search for a multiplayer game?
I know there's probably no way to effectively "gate" uber runs or entry to higher MP levels (and I also don't think it would be right to do so). I think it would be nice, however, if after you selected "Ubers" (as above), the game would then check your inventory/stash for all the necessary materials to open a portal; that way, players joining uber runs would at least know that everyone could contribute his fair share of mats. Of course, whether or not they WOULD contribute their mats, or stay for the duration of all the runs, is still uncontrollable.
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i would choose my own religion and worship my own spirit, but if he ever preached to me i wouldn't want to hear it. i'd drop him, a forgotten god, languishing in shame; and then if i hit stormy seas, i'd have myself to blame.
I don't know about this one. I've supported queuing systems in mmos because in an MMO it is required you have a tank, healer, and 2-4 dps. It is much harder to find those specific people. In Diablo there are no assigned roles, everyone contributes equally. Also, you do not need 4 people to complete anything in this game.
Also, part of completing ubers is the fact that it is required to complete the infernal machines. If the group is 4 people how is it decided what machine to use. Also, if there are two people in the group only - who gets stuck using two machines? Why would I want to use my two machines when this random pug can use two machines?
The more I think about it the more I am against it. It's not very "Diablo". This is too "MMO". I think it's great that fans are suggesting a lot of good ideas however a lot of the even well thought out ones that include fancy photo shops I don't even like. They are mostly MMO based concepts. For example I really hate the idea of in game hubs.
The greatest thing about Diablo for me is the fact that I am not forced to do anything. I can kill ubers alone or with 3 other people, or somewhere in between. I think a queuing system limits that freedom and creates conflicts among machine use.
My last point is that this makes ubers too accessible as well. The MMO market has now catered to accessibility rather than challenge, and well the MMO market is dying (it's not just WoW). The demand from players to have everything easily accessible is taking away from long term accomplishments. Diablo 3 players complain already about being bored, if ubers are made more accessible the desire to continue to gear will go away followed by the desire to even play. Sorry I just think this is not a step in the right direction for this game.
the mmo market isn't dying, it's moving to free to play.
Anyway, I have to agree with most of the sentiments above; this is a nice to have, but there just aren't too many good ways to for someone to come in and cause social issues (who uses machines, who's underpowered, etc).
Also, I feel obliged to add the note that I don't think blizzard devs view this website for suggestions. If you really want something in, you have to go post on the actual official forums.
The greatest thing about Diablo for me is the fact that I am not forced to do anything. I can kill ubers alone or with 3 other people, or somewhere in between. I think a queuing system limits that freedom and creates conflicts among machine use.
While I definitely agree with the sentiment behind this post (I don't want D3 getting too MMOish either), I don't think that the current queuing system limits players in any way. To be clear, when I say "current queuing system," I'm talking about the fact that when you want to play with other random people, you just select the quest and MP level. You don't have to specify you role or build, and you don't have to have a certain "gear score" or "minimum item level". I would be AGAINST adding in those kinds of requirements in order to join a game.
To echo what I said earlier, though, I DO think we need to be able to say "we're going after Ubers in this game" when we create new games, rather than just being able to select "Monster Slaying," "Key Wardens," or "Brawling." I imagine that lots of players might try to join Uber runs whether or not they had the keys/machines they needed, so I suggested above that the game simply check your inventory/stash for the proper mats. Under my idea, if you had the mats you need, you could still join an MP10 Uber run wearing all blue gear and putting out 15k DPS (and it would still be a dick move and a bad idea).
EDIT: for spelling.
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i would choose my own religion and worship my own spirit, but if he ever preached to me i wouldn't want to hear it. i'd drop him, a forgotten god, languishing in shame; and then if i hit stormy seas, i'd have myself to blame.
I think I'm largely with Serpenth on this one. Not necessarily the MMO part, but the parts about it making ubers too accessible, and there being conflicts between machine use.
For one thing, the uber bosses don't have to be something "special," but they are different and much higher end than hunting the standard Act bosses, or midbosses like Magdha, Cydaea, Iskatu, Rakanoth, Ghom, Araneae, etc. Granted, a player isn't required to do any work to get keys, if they know the right person to carry them or they meet folks in chat, but making it even easier for people who haven't earned their way into an uber fight to get into an uber fight isn't the answer.
I think the solution, though, is that people looking for others to join them for uber runs should (at least for now, until there's a clearer game Tag like "Bosses") create a game labeled as Key Warden, post that they're doing ubers in chat channels to drive traffic to their game, and when people reply that they're interested, be more communicative up front with whispers. Check gear of people who reply, ask questions of those people, and anyone who says one thing and can't deliver gets kicked. Be more of a HOST, take responsibility of that leadership role and don't just hang back and wait for the situation to get uncomfortable. Fine tune who GETS to play with you, as opposed to just allowing anyone at all in.
maybe to queueing system is not the best approach but something to make grouping eeasier. what about a dedicated chat channel? General, Trade, and Grouping.
maybe to queueing system is not the best approach but something to make grouping eeasier. what about a dedicated chat channel? General, Trade, and Grouping.
I think they have that already. A "Looking for Group" channel, I'm almost positive I've seen that. No?
It's probably never going to happen, but it would be cool if when you queued for Ubers, you had to have at least 1 machine in your inventory and it would be removed. Then once 4 players have joined, it would use three of the machines and return the extra machine to a random player.
The above obviously doesn't account for undergeared people queuing up though. That's a tougher thing to tackle, but it could conceivably be handled by some sort of rating system where if people consistently rate you down, you're unable to join the automatic queues for some penalty period which would grow successively longer.
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...and if you disagree with me, you're probably <insert random ad hominem attack here>.
It's probably never going to happen, but it would be cool if when you queued for Ubers, you had to have at least 1 machine in your inventory and it would be removed. Then once 4 players have joined, it would use three of the machines and return the extra machine to a random player.
The above obviously doesn't account for undergeared people queuing up though. That's a tougher thing to tackle, but it could conceivably be handled by some sort of rating system where if people consistently rate you down, you're unable to join the automatic queues for some penalty period which would grow successively longer.
I was actually thinking exactly that. Four people all bring machines, one person randomly gets the extra one back. That's the fairest way I can think of solving that particular problem.
The undergeared stuff we're already seeing rear its head in MP10 games. Ubers would be a lot worse as people would be highly incentivzed to leech their way to free organs.
It's probably never going to happen, but it would be cool if when you queued for Ubers, you had to have at least 1 machine in your inventory and it would be removed. Then once 4 players have joined, it would use three of the machines and return the extra machine to a random player.
The above obviously doesn't account for undergeared people queuing up though. That's a tougher thing to tackle, but it could conceivably be handled by some sort of rating system where if people consistently rate you down, you're unable to join the automatic queues for some penalty period which would grow successively longer.
I was actually thinking exactly that. Four people all bring machines, one person randomly gets the extra one back. That's the fairest way I can think of solving that particular problem.
The undergeared stuff we're already seeing rear its head in MP10 games. Ubers would be a lot worse as people would be highly incentivzed to leech their way to free organs.
Eh, I don't know, Shaggy, I feel like undergeared folks who want to leech their way to free organs/rings already are doing it. Sometimes, General Chat is literally spammed with "anybody doing mp10 uber carries?" begging. I can't believe "mp10 uber carry" is actually a term.
A cousin of mine has this friend who just started playing D3 recently, he's on my friends list, ran with him a bit last night before Monday Night Raw came on. Guy doesn't have more 1500-2k total elite kills on his account yet...already, his Wizard is doing 75k+ DPS, he's covered in sets and legendaries, and has a Hellfire Ring! He has a Hellfire Ring, not even 2k elite kills, less than 100 hours total. At the rate he's going, I honestly don't project he'll be playing in six months.
My Plvl 49 Monk is my strongest character, he can survive fairly well in mp6 solo, but can only do mp2 ubers solo...and I've put in 800 hours across 8 characters, finding and crafting gear for each other. I've put time in, I've farmed keys, I've killed ubers myself, I've earned my Hellfire Rings.
So...I don't know if necessarily just adding a Tag for Ubers, like I think OP is suggesting, is a good idea, or even having the game PULL a machine out of your stash or inventory, is a good idea either. However, if Blizzard's intention by requiring 5 NV stacks to get a key from a Keywarden, 3 keys for 1 machine, 3 machines for the best chance at each Realm, then likely even more machines to successfully farm all the organs, is to encourage people to work for what they get, then there should be some kind of additional built-in features to require people to earn the right to fight ubers instead of just have someone else do the work and magic shot themselves to getting the ring.
I mean, granted, Hellfire Rings aren't usually amazing crafts, but...part of what makes them special should be that people have to earn them. It's why they're Account Bound. Honestly, if people are doing mp10 uber carries, and anyone can get rushed to having a Hellfire Ring, why not just remove the Account Bound aspect and make them tradeable?
EDIT: Of course, I'm being facetious, and don't think they should be tradeable, but...as it stands, anyone can get them in a matter of a few hours thanks to someone else carrying them. It's the same as people wanting more storage and making "mules." It just arrogantly bucks the system. I don't like it.
Eh, I don't know, Shaggy, I feel like undergeared folks who want to leech their way to free organs/rings already are doing it. Sometimes, General Chat is literally spammed with "anybody doing mp10 uber carries?" begging. I can't believe "mp10 uber carry" is actually a term.
I'd point out that, as much as you may dislike that, at least if it's done via chat everyone knows what they're getting into ahead-of-time. With a matchmaking queue no one would know they're about to carry someone else which obviously is not the same thing.
Some groups might be able to carry a player. Others may not. That's the danger with a matchmaking system - the groups that can't are kinda boned.
-First, the rings themselves are too "twink." They're much better for low level, undergeared characters than people who can already handle high MP/ubers. That immediately sets up a problem w/ people who need the ring needing the help of people who don't. Make the ring less XP/twink focused, and more end-game focused.
-There needs to be a bunch of disclaimers IN GAME, not on the website, about needing five stacks for any key related activities. Unless people killing the Warden w/ no stacks are just griefing jerks, which is probable.
-Yes, there should be an Infernal Machine game tag. Yes people are going to haggle over using up Machines. Solution; when you have 3 "Strength in Numbers" buffs, the Ubers have a chance to drop keys, similar to Act IV's bonus roll.
-Fix the Warden tag. When a Warden dies, the game automatically changes the Warden tag to Monster Slaying. The Warden shouldn't spawn unless somebody w/ 5 stacks is in the same zone (to prevent aforementioned griefers). Show NV stacks next to character portraits, so a newly joined player can tell whether to keep going (one stack) or find a different game (4 or 5 stacks).
-Speaking of stacks, give stacks for Goblins and purple mobs. This would really help out Act IV, where it's possible to bump into the Warden w/ only four stacks naturally.
Maybe I misunderstood the concept you laid out. I think game tags for Ubers is good. However I think there will still be conflicts when it comes to machines, maybe require a machine to enter the game. So although 4 machines would be used in a 4 player game, everyone contributed equally. Also in a two player game, just let open two portals.
Sorry OP, I did misunderstand the concept.
Did want to point out though, if you're looking for a carry the battle.net forums are a great place to find a carry.
-First, the rings themselves are too "twink." They're much better for low level, undergeared characters than people who can already handle high MP/ubers. That immediately sets up a problem w/ people who need the ring needing the help of people who don't. Make the ring less XP/twink focused, and more end-game focused.
-There needs to be a bunch of disclaimers IN GAME, not on the website, about needing five stacks for any key related activities. Unless people killing the Warden w/ no stacks are just griefing jerks, which is probable.
-Yes, there should be an Infernal Machine game tag. Yes people are going to haggle over using up Machines. Solution; when you have 3 "Strength in Numbers" buffs, the Ubers have a chance to drop keys, similar to Act IV's bonus roll.
-Fix the Warden tag. When a Warden dies, the game automatically changes the Warden tag to Monster Slaying. The Warden shouldn't spawn unless somebody w/ 5 stacks is in the same zone (to prevent aforementioned griefers). Show NV stacks next to character portraits, so a newly joined player can tell whether to keep going (one stack) or find a different game (4 or 5 stacks).
-Speaking of stacks, give stacks for Goblins and purple mobs. This would really help out Act IV, where it's possible to bump into the Warden w/ only four stacks naturally.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, and YES! I totally agree with all these, especially about the game description changing after the Key Warden is killed. In fact, I'd like to see a tag like "Monster Slaying: I, II, III, IV", where the roman numerals stand for which Wardens are still alive. I hate joining a game and getting my stacks just to find out the Warden in a given act was gone long ago.
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i would choose my own religion and worship my own spirit, but if he ever preached to me i wouldn't want to hear it. i'd drop him, a forgotten god, languishing in shame; and then if i hit stormy seas, i'd have myself to blame.
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I know there's probably no way to effectively "gate" uber runs or entry to higher MP levels (and I also don't think it would be right to do so). I think it would be nice, however, if after you selected "Ubers" (as above), the game would then check your inventory/stash for all the necessary materials to open a portal; that way, players joining uber runs would at least know that everyone could contribute his fair share of mats. Of course, whether or not they WOULD contribute their mats, or stay for the duration of all the runs, is still uncontrollable.
Also, part of completing ubers is the fact that it is required to complete the infernal machines. If the group is 4 people how is it decided what machine to use. Also, if there are two people in the group only - who gets stuck using two machines? Why would I want to use my two machines when this random pug can use two machines?
The more I think about it the more I am against it. It's not very "Diablo". This is too "MMO". I think it's great that fans are suggesting a lot of good ideas however a lot of the even well thought out ones that include fancy photo shops I don't even like. They are mostly MMO based concepts. For example I really hate the idea of in game hubs.
The greatest thing about Diablo for me is the fact that I am not forced to do anything. I can kill ubers alone or with 3 other people, or somewhere in between. I think a queuing system limits that freedom and creates conflicts among machine use.
My last point is that this makes ubers too accessible as well. The MMO market has now catered to accessibility rather than challenge, and well the MMO market is dying (it's not just WoW). The demand from players to have everything easily accessible is taking away from long term accomplishments. Diablo 3 players complain already about being bored, if ubers are made more accessible the desire to continue to gear will go away followed by the desire to even play. Sorry I just think this is not a step in the right direction for this game.
Anyway, I have to agree with most of the sentiments above; this is a nice to have, but there just aren't too many good ways to for someone to come in and cause social issues (who uses machines, who's underpowered, etc).
Also, I feel obliged to add the note that I don't think blizzard devs view this website for suggestions. If you really want something in, you have to go post on the actual official forums.
Indeed. I'm REALLY enjoying Neverwinter's open Beta.
While I definitely agree with the sentiment behind this post (I don't want D3 getting too MMOish either), I don't think that the current queuing system limits players in any way. To be clear, when I say "current queuing system," I'm talking about the fact that when you want to play with other random people, you just select the quest and MP level. You don't have to specify you role or build, and you don't have to have a certain "gear score" or "minimum item level". I would be AGAINST adding in those kinds of requirements in order to join a game.
To echo what I said earlier, though, I DO think we need to be able to say "we're going after Ubers in this game" when we create new games, rather than just being able to select "Monster Slaying," "Key Wardens," or "Brawling." I imagine that lots of players might try to join Uber runs whether or not they had the keys/machines they needed, so I suggested above that the game simply check your inventory/stash for the proper mats. Under my idea, if you had the mats you need, you could still join an MP10 Uber run wearing all blue gear and putting out 15k DPS (and it would still be a dick move and a bad idea).
EDIT: for spelling.
For one thing, the uber bosses don't have to be something "special," but they are different and much higher end than hunting the standard Act bosses, or midbosses like Magdha, Cydaea, Iskatu, Rakanoth, Ghom, Araneae, etc. Granted, a player isn't required to do any work to get keys, if they know the right person to carry them or they meet folks in chat, but making it even easier for people who haven't earned their way into an uber fight to get into an uber fight isn't the answer.
I think the solution, though, is that people looking for others to join them for uber runs should (at least for now, until there's a clearer game Tag like "Bosses") create a game labeled as Key Warden, post that they're doing ubers in chat channels to drive traffic to their game, and when people reply that they're interested, be more communicative up front with whispers. Check gear of people who reply, ask questions of those people, and anyone who says one thing and can't deliver gets kicked. Be more of a HOST, take responsibility of that leadership role and don't just hang back and wait for the situation to get uncomfortable. Fine tune who GETS to play with you, as opposed to just allowing anyone at all in.
I think they have that already. A "Looking for Group" channel, I'm almost positive I've seen that. No?
The above obviously doesn't account for undergeared people queuing up though. That's a tougher thing to tackle, but it could conceivably be handled by some sort of rating system where if people consistently rate you down, you're unable to join the automatic queues for some penalty period which would grow successively longer.
I was actually thinking exactly that. Four people all bring machines, one person randomly gets the extra one back. That's the fairest way I can think of solving that particular problem.
The undergeared stuff we're already seeing rear its head in MP10 games. Ubers would be a lot worse as people would be highly incentivzed to leech their way to free organs.
Eh, I don't know, Shaggy, I feel like undergeared folks who want to leech their way to free organs/rings already are doing it. Sometimes, General Chat is literally spammed with "anybody doing mp10 uber carries?" begging. I can't believe "mp10 uber carry" is actually a term.
A cousin of mine has this friend who just started playing D3 recently, he's on my friends list, ran with him a bit last night before Monday Night Raw came on. Guy doesn't have more 1500-2k total elite kills on his account yet...already, his Wizard is doing 75k+ DPS, he's covered in sets and legendaries, and has a Hellfire Ring! He has a Hellfire Ring, not even 2k elite kills, less than 100 hours total. At the rate he's going, I honestly don't project he'll be playing in six months.
My Plvl 49 Monk is my strongest character, he can survive fairly well in mp6 solo, but can only do mp2 ubers solo...and I've put in 800 hours across 8 characters, finding and crafting gear for each other. I've put time in, I've farmed keys, I've killed ubers myself, I've earned my Hellfire Rings.
So...I don't know if necessarily just adding a Tag for Ubers, like I think OP is suggesting, is a good idea, or even having the game PULL a machine out of your stash or inventory, is a good idea either. However, if Blizzard's intention by requiring 5 NV stacks to get a key from a Keywarden, 3 keys for 1 machine, 3 machines for the best chance at each Realm, then likely even more machines to successfully farm all the organs, is to encourage people to work for what they get, then there should be some kind of additional built-in features to require people to earn the right to fight ubers instead of just have someone else do the work and magic shot themselves to getting the ring.
I mean, granted, Hellfire Rings aren't usually amazing crafts, but...part of what makes them special should be that people have to earn them. It's why they're Account Bound. Honestly, if people are doing mp10 uber carries, and anyone can get rushed to having a Hellfire Ring, why not just remove the Account Bound aspect and make them tradeable?
EDIT: Of course, I'm being facetious, and don't think they should be tradeable, but...as it stands, anyone can get them in a matter of a few hours thanks to someone else carrying them. It's the same as people wanting more storage and making "mules." It just arrogantly bucks the system. I don't like it.
I'd point out that, as much as you may dislike that, at least if it's done via chat everyone knows what they're getting into ahead-of-time. With a matchmaking queue no one would know they're about to carry someone else which obviously is not the same thing.
Some groups might be able to carry a player. Others may not. That's the danger with a matchmaking system - the groups that can't are kinda boned.
-First, the rings themselves are too "twink." They're much better for low level, undergeared characters than people who can already handle high MP/ubers. That immediately sets up a problem w/ people who need the ring needing the help of people who don't. Make the ring less XP/twink focused, and more end-game focused.
-There needs to be a bunch of disclaimers IN GAME, not on the website, about needing five stacks for any key related activities. Unless people killing the Warden w/ no stacks are just griefing jerks, which is probable.
-Yes, there should be an Infernal Machine game tag. Yes people are going to haggle over using up Machines. Solution; when you have 3 "Strength in Numbers" buffs, the Ubers have a chance to drop keys, similar to Act IV's bonus roll.
-Fix the Warden tag. When a Warden dies, the game automatically changes the Warden tag to Monster Slaying. The Warden shouldn't spawn unless somebody w/ 5 stacks is in the same zone (to prevent aforementioned griefers). Show NV stacks next to character portraits, so a newly joined player can tell whether to keep going (one stack) or find a different game (4 or 5 stacks).
-Speaking of stacks, give stacks for Goblins and purple mobs. This would really help out Act IV, where it's possible to bump into the Warden w/ only four stacks naturally.
Sorry OP, I did misunderstand the concept.
Did want to point out though, if you're looking for a carry the battle.net forums are a great place to find a carry.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, and YES! I totally agree with all these, especially about the game description changing after the Key Warden is killed. In fact, I'd like to see a tag like "Monster Slaying: I, II, III, IV", where the roman numerals stand for which Wardens are still alive. I hate joining a game and getting my stacks just to find out the Warden in a given act was gone long ago.