I get the reason for a PTR. I just dont think its necessary for ALL, especially small patches... 1.08 with what is stated to be in it seems like a hot fix- not a reason for 5-6 week patch delay.
It still all seems to me to be nonsensical arguments. It's a game that has lost your affection due to some "simple and (in your opinion) broken" mechanics. I feel that after listening to your arguments, that you have for yourself created a straw man argument against the game and perhaps it is not the straw that broke the camel’s back but your hopes and aspirations for the game that have not come to full fruition. Maybe in time these hopes will come to pass but to blame your quitting of a game on simple mechanics and, as you would say, a bunch of small issues adding up to a ton of straw... seems a little silly. Sometimes when you have a fondness for something you have to take the good with the bad. The issues you have brought up certainly could be addressed to better fit your desires for the game but to quit because of them shows a pettier attitude than a true diehard desire to slog it through.
Let me make myself clear.
I have been repelling lots of pressure to try PoE by some of my long-time gaming friends. Lots of pressure. I don't want to try PoE, frankly, because I am a diehard Diablo fan. I don't want to try PoE because in some odd way, I'm afraid that it'll drive me away from D3 more-so than I am now.
I honestly feel this game has explosive potential. Nobody should need to explain the "why" of quitting (though I haven't quit, just taking a break). When a player logs into a game and they find themselves logging out within minutes, something has turned the player off.
The issues I've discussed in this thread aren't game-breaking, deal-breaking fundamental flaws. They are simple fixes. Itemization, that issue has been game-breaking, deal-breaking for me. Itemization has no complexity. Vanilla is the flavor and I'm bored with it.
If itemization gets turned around, which I've seen plenty of indicators that it will, these "straws" I've described wouldn't bother me enough to cause me to quit. You're right, these issues shouldn't give cause for anyone to quit unless they were cynical asshats.
I tried to slog through like a diehard fan. Actually, I intend to continue to do so. I just need a break until itemization is fixed. The good news is, by the time this happens, all these other ancillary issues will have been resolved. That's what I love about Blizz. They communicate with the players, otherwise, I'd have quit this game and deemed it a failure by now. They've put it out there....everything I've complained about has been confirmed by Blizz as a problem.
So a PTR to me feels unnecessary b/c it doesnt help my progress and or desire to want to play anymore other than to kill time and hope i hit the proverbial "item lottery" I dont want to test for bugs, i dont want to be the first to try the new features, I just want to enjoy playing again-with hopes my friends come back and join me.
I'm with you dude. I don't play the PTRs. But some people do. Some people love it for some reason. Let them find the bugs for us, right? We only benefit from their zeal for hopping on the PTR. I'd rather them fire up the PTR and find some bugs while I play the live version than for those bugs to make it to live and for ME to find them.
Right?
This....I will agree with. I don't necessarily have issue with the PTR. I have issue with what I see, maybe ignorantly so, as simple fixes that should've been added months ago.
I don't disagree that ... ID All ... *could* have been added months ago. But I have no clue what the decision-making process is for what gets thrown into which patches insofar as those small things (ID All, Craft All, etc.). One thing I can equate it to is the 16-slot backpack in WoW. Blizzard has maintained, for years, that it's not just a simple fix, even though to the end user it's massively frustrating and it seems very simple to us but hasn't been fixed for well over five years.
So, yes, something like ID All seems simple. But, my guess as to why it's not totally straightforward is the same reason that they didn't make IDing rares/legendaries instant in the first place - some kind of security feature to prevent duping. That's purely speculation on my part, but it'd seem that there may be a reason for the delay and if my suspicions are correct then they can't just slap an "ID All" button in the game without making very sure that it's not exploitable. Again, that's totally a guess, but it's not totally irrational. The point being that there are lots of moving parts in the code of a game as large as D3 and even the simple things aren't always that simple.
I get the reason for a PTR. I just dont think its necessary for ALL, especially small patches... 1.08 with what is stated to be in it seems like a hot fix- not a reason for 5-6 week patch delay.
D3 is a large game. We've seen how patches in WoW work. They'll hotfix Ulduar and suddenly Blackwing Lair has bugs. That's the main reason that the PTRs exist. They change a + to a - on a line of code somewhere and it has a dozen unintended consequences. It seems far-fetched, but that's how large programs work.
Imagine for a second that they change some variables related to monster density in, err, the Fields of Misery. That one change makes it that Azmodan bugs out and gets stuck at 1 HP for some reason. This is much better picked up on the PTR than going live and making it that, until they hotfix it, players can't beat Azmodan. I realize that you feel the PTR is an "unnecessary delay" but the reality of the situaition is that uninteded bugs from patches can be far more intrusive than waiting an extra few weeks for those bugs to be sorted out.
You really wouldn't like it if they changed monster density and, suddenly, your one toon couldn't get past Act 3 normal. That kind of thing making it to live is totally unacceptable and the PTR helps keep those situations to a minimum. Do me a favor, just look at all the PTR bug reports on the forums when it gets pushed. I guarantee there will be things that crop up that you never thought would crop up. Things that you'd be pretty irked if they made it to the live version of the game.
It still all seems to me to be nonsensical arguments. It's a game that has lost your affection due to some "simple and (in your opinion) broken" mechanics. I feel that after listening to your arguments, that you have for yourself created a straw man argument against the game and perhaps it is not the straw that broke the camel’s back but your hopes and aspirations for the game that have not come to full fruition. Maybe in time these hopes will come to pass but to blame your quitting of a game on simple mechanics and, as you would say, a bunch of small issues adding up to a ton of straw... seems a little silly. Sometimes when you have a fondness for something you have to take the good with the bad. The issues you have brought up certainly could be addressed to better fit your desires for the game but to quit because of them shows a pettier attitude than a true diehard desire to slog it through.
Let me make myself clear.
I have been repelling lots of pressure to try PoE by some of my long-time gaming friends. Lots of pressure. I don't want to try PoE, frankly, because I am a diehard Diablo fan. I don't want to try PoE because in some odd way, I'm afraid that it'll drive me away from D3 more-so than I am now.
I honestly feel this game has explosive potential. Nobody should need to explain the "why" of quitting (though I haven't quit, just taking a break). When a player logs into a game and they find themselves logging out within minutes, something has turned the player off.
The issues I've discussed in this thread aren't game-breaking, deal-breaking fundamental flaws. They are simple fixes. Itemization, that issue has been game-breaking, deal-breaking for me. Itemization has no complexity. Vanilla is the flavor and I'm bored with it.
If itemization gets turned around, which I've seen plenty of indicators that it will, these "straws" I've described wouldn't bother me enough to cause me to quit. You're right, these issues shouldn't give cause for anyone to quit unless they were cynical asshats.
I tried to slog through like a diehard fan. Actually, I intend to continue to do so. I just need a break until itemization is fixed. The good news is, by the time this happens, all these other ancillary issues will have been resolved. That's what I love about Blizz. They communicate with the players, otherwise, I'd have quit this game and deemed it a failure by now. They've put it out there....everything I've complained about has been confirmed by Blizz as a problem.
Honestly this explains me to a T. 100% agree and 100% in the same boat. Sadly, with 2 young children and a full time job I dont have much time to play video games anymore, but when I do my loyalty lies here. I love playing, the memories, and the friends I have made while playing this Series. HOPE
I get the reason for a PTR. I just dont think its necessary for ALL, especially small patches... 1.08 with what is stated to be in it seems like a hot fix- not a reason for 5-6 week patch delay.
There's no way changing monster density in acts 1,2 and 4 is anywhere close to the small size of a hotfix. You can't just go in and code 'increase every spawn capacity by 35%' and be done. There's many potential issues that could arise from doing so, and because of that they need to complete internal testing, and then hand over the patch in the form of a PTR for all players to try and break.
I understand, I want the changes now as well, but the quality just won't be there if that were to happen. Waiting sucks I get it, but it's far better for the game in the end to wait a couple weeks and have things running smoothly.
Hey if we just got things rushed out and Blizzard didn't care about player feedback, we'd be dealing with nephalem shrines to change our skills *shudder*
There's no way changing monster density in acts 1,2 and 4 is anywhere close to the small size of a hotfix. You can't just go in and code 'increase every spawn capacity by 35%' and be done. There's many potential issues that could arise from doing so, and because of that they need to complete internal testing, and then hand over the patch in the form of a PTR for all players to try and break.
It still all seems to me to be nonsensical arguments. It's a game that has lost your affection due to some "simple and (in your opinion) broken" mechanics. I feel that after listening to your arguments, that you have for yourself created a straw man argument against the game and perhaps it is not the straw that broke the camel’s back but your hopes and aspirations for the game that have not come to full fruition. Maybe in time these hopes will come to pass but to blame your quitting of a game on simple mechanics and, as you would say, a bunch of small issues adding up to a ton of straw... seems a little silly. Sometimes when you have a fondness for something you have to take the good with the bad. The issues you have brought up certainly could be addressed to better fit your desires for the game but to quit because of them shows a pettier attitude than a true diehard desire to slog it through.
Let me make myself clear.
I have been repelling lots of pressure to try PoE by some of my long-time gaming friends. Lots of pressure. I don't want to try PoE, frankly, because I am a diehard Diablo fan. I don't want to try PoE because in some odd way, I'm afraid that it'll drive me away from D3 more-so than I am now.
I honestly feel this game has explosive potential. Nobody should need to explain the "why" of quitting (though I haven't quit, just taking a break). When a player logs into a game and they find themselves logging out within minutes, something has turned the player off.
The issues I've discussed in this thread aren't game-breaking, deal-breaking fundamental flaws. They are simple fixes. Itemization, that issue has been game-breaking, deal-breaking for me. Itemization has no complexity. Vanilla is the flavor and I'm bored with it.
If itemization gets turned around, which I've seen plenty of indicators that it will, these "straws" I've described wouldn't bother me enough to cause me to quit. You're right, these issues shouldn't give cause for anyone to quit unless they were cynical asshats.
I tried to slog through like a diehard fan. Actually, I intend to continue to do so. I just need a break until itemization is fixed. The good news is, by the time this happens, all these other ancillary issues will have been resolved. That's what I love about Blizz. They communicate with the players, otherwise, I'd have quit this game and deemed it a failure by now. They've put it out there....everything I've complained about has been confirmed by Blizz as a problem.
On the PoE topic, why not try the game? I have and it's a great game. Not earth shattering but it is a great game to play. Why would anybody choose to be monogamous with a game or genre for that matter? Heck, maybe a romp through another ARPG is what you need to release some of the angst you have towards D3? lol
On the PoE topic, why not try the game? I have and it's a great game. Not earth shattering but it is a great game to play. Why would anybody choose to be monogamous with a game or genre for that matter? Heck, maybe a romp through another ARPG is what you need to release some of the angst you have towards D3? lol
Just to clarify....I have a small hard drive and I'd have to uninstall D3 to install PoE. So it would be a bit of a pain in the ass to give it go, as I'm not keen on uninstalling a game I intend to play again really soon.
Also, I'm not a gamer, per say. I've only played a handful of games over the last 10 years or so. Diablo 3 is the first game other than Madden that I've played in the last 2 years or so. I'm a man of many hobbies, and my draw to gaming is almost exclusively coming from a desire to play a Diablo game.
Unfortunately, D3 hasn't been able to hold my interest as I had hoped.
We’re still hard at work on patch 1.0.8, so we haven’t yet released the patch notes for it. I can tell you, though, that there are definitely more changes currently planned for the patch than monster density alone.
It'd seem that the pitchfork and torch crowd probably should put said implements down until after they know the whole contents of the patch, at the very least. Raging that monster density doesn't need to be tested kinda loses its steam when you find out that the patch isn't just monster density huh?
Maybe in the future we can not make assumptions about the contents of a patch until the patch notes are out? Or at least simply not assume that if a feature isn't mentioned by a blue that it's not in the patch?
EDIT
Overneathe, I read your guide to formatting, can you tell!? Good stuff!
How much longer do you guys want to make us wait and feel like beta testers. Make a change, stick with it, tweak it with 1.08xxxx patch if you have to ...but another PTR means weeks b4 we get changes....WEAK!!!
Why would they send out a patch and then keep patching fixes in when they can just test it for 2/3 weeks and have most of the bugs fixed? if they released an untested patch you'd cry about it not working right.
I guess the patch will come out 1 or 2 weeks after PTR.
You know, I completely agree. Do we really need a PTR for ID all? Or Increasing monster density? For a game that makes quite a bit of money, they sure like to keep us pissed off.
Dont worry guys. We will surely have it a few days before Marvel Heroes launches.
Blizzard has to hurry up with the improved quality drop patch... Or they'll loose a lot of the actual player base, after the release of Marvel Heroes.
I have never heard of "Marvel Heroes". I just had to look it up and have to say this is the biggest joke ever... but well.
Can't even recall how many times I've read "Blizzard has to hurry up with <finishing/fixing game X>... Or they'll loose a lot of the actual player base to <game Y>." However, Blizzard is still the undisputed leader in the MMORPG genre, in the RTS genre, and in the hack'n'slay genre. Yeah... I'm sure everyone at Blizzard is really afraid of the 105349th game that will take over the Diablo player base...
Dont worry guys. We will surely have it a few days before Marvel Heroes launches.
Blizzard has to hurry up with the improved quality drop patch... Or they'll loose a lot of the actual player base, after the release of Marvel Heroes.
I have never heard of "Marvel Heroes". I just had to look it up and have to say this is the biggest joke ever... but well.
Can't even recall how many times I've read "Blizzard has to hurry up with <finishing/fixing game X>... Or they'll loose a lot of the actual player base to <game Y>." However, Blizzard is still the undisputed leader in the MMORPG genre, in the RTS genre, and in the hack'n'slay genre. Yeah... I'm sure everyone at Blizzard is really afraid of the 105349th game that will take over the Diablo player base...
But...but....its created by David Brevik! The lead visionary behind Diablo 2!!
(please ignore the fact that Diablo2 was released 13 years ago and he hasn't been a part of a single successful game in the mean time.)
Let me make myself clear.
I have been repelling lots of pressure to try PoE by some of my long-time gaming friends. Lots of pressure. I don't want to try PoE, frankly, because I am a diehard Diablo fan. I don't want to try PoE because in some odd way, I'm afraid that it'll drive me away from D3 more-so than I am now.
I honestly feel this game has explosive potential. Nobody should need to explain the "why" of quitting (though I haven't quit, just taking a break). When a player logs into a game and they find themselves logging out within minutes, something has turned the player off.
The issues I've discussed in this thread aren't game-breaking, deal-breaking fundamental flaws. They are simple fixes. Itemization, that issue has been game-breaking, deal-breaking for me. Itemization has no complexity. Vanilla is the flavor and I'm bored with it.
If itemization gets turned around, which I've seen plenty of indicators that it will, these "straws" I've described wouldn't bother me enough to cause me to quit. You're right, these issues shouldn't give cause for anyone to quit unless they were cynical asshats.
I tried to slog through like a diehard fan. Actually, I intend to continue to do so. I just need a break until itemization is fixed. The good news is, by the time this happens, all these other ancillary issues will have been resolved. That's what I love about Blizz. They communicate with the players, otherwise, I'd have quit this game and deemed it a failure by now. They've put it out there....everything I've complained about has been confirmed by Blizz as a problem.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
I don't disagree that ... ID All ... *could* have been added months ago. But I have no clue what the decision-making process is for what gets thrown into which patches insofar as those small things (ID All, Craft All, etc.). One thing I can equate it to is the 16-slot backpack in WoW. Blizzard has maintained, for years, that it's not just a simple fix, even though to the end user it's massively frustrating and it seems very simple to us but hasn't been fixed for well over five years.
So, yes, something like ID All seems simple. But, my guess as to why it's not totally straightforward is the same reason that they didn't make IDing rares/legendaries instant in the first place - some kind of security feature to prevent duping. That's purely speculation on my part, but it'd seem that there may be a reason for the delay and if my suspicions are correct then they can't just slap an "ID All" button in the game without making very sure that it's not exploitable. Again, that's totally a guess, but it's not totally irrational. The point being that there are lots of moving parts in the code of a game as large as D3 and even the simple things aren't always that simple.
D3 is a large game. We've seen how patches in WoW work. They'll hotfix Ulduar and suddenly Blackwing Lair has bugs. That's the main reason that the PTRs exist. They change a + to a - on a line of code somewhere and it has a dozen unintended consequences. It seems far-fetched, but that's how large programs work.
Imagine for a second that they change some variables related to monster density in, err, the Fields of Misery. That one change makes it that Azmodan bugs out and gets stuck at 1 HP for some reason. This is much better picked up on the PTR than going live and making it that, until they hotfix it, players can't beat Azmodan. I realize that you feel the PTR is an "unnecessary delay" but the reality of the situaition is that uninteded bugs from patches can be far more intrusive than waiting an extra few weeks for those bugs to be sorted out.
You really wouldn't like it if they changed monster density and, suddenly, your one toon couldn't get past Act 3 normal. That kind of thing making it to live is totally unacceptable and the PTR helps keep those situations to a minimum. Do me a favor, just look at all the PTR bug reports on the forums when it gets pushed. I guarantee there will be things that crop up that you never thought would crop up. Things that you'd be pretty irked if they made it to the live version of the game.
Honestly this explains me to a T. 100% agree and 100% in the same boat. Sadly, with 2 young children and a full time job I dont have much time to play video games anymore, but when I do my loyalty lies here. I love playing, the memories, and the friends I have made while playing this Series. HOPE
There's no way changing monster density in acts 1,2 and 4 is anywhere close to the small size of a hotfix. You can't just go in and code 'increase every spawn capacity by 35%' and be done. There's many potential issues that could arise from doing so, and because of that they need to complete internal testing, and then hand over the patch in the form of a PTR for all players to try and break.
I understand, I want the changes now as well, but the quality just won't be there if that were to happen. Waiting sucks I get it, but it's far better for the game in the end to wait a couple weeks and have things running smoothly.
Hey if we just got things rushed out and Blizzard didn't care about player feedback, we'd be dealing with nephalem shrines to change our skills *shudder*
On the PoE topic, why not try the game? I have and it's a great game. Not earth shattering but it is a great game to play. Why would anybody choose to be monogamous with a game or genre for that matter? Heck, maybe a romp through another ARPG is what you need to release some of the angst you have towards D3? lol
Just to clarify....I have a small hard drive and I'd have to uninstall D3 to install PoE. So it would be a bit of a pain in the ass to give it go, as I'm not keen on uninstalling a game I intend to play again really soon.
Also, I'm not a gamer, per say. I've only played a handful of games over the last 10 years or so. Diablo 3 is the first game other than Madden that I've played in the last 2 years or so. I'm a man of many hobbies, and my draw to gaming is almost exclusively coming from a desire to play a Diablo game.
Unfortunately, D3 hasn't been able to hold my interest as I had hoped.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
Originally Posted by Vaeflare (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
We’re still hard at work on patch 1.0.8, so we haven’t yet released the patch notes for it. I can tell you, though, that there are definitely more changes currently planned for the patch than monster density alone.
It'd seem that the pitchfork and torch crowd probably should put said implements down until after they know the whole contents of the patch, at the very least. Raging that monster density doesn't need to be tested kinda loses its steam when you find out that the patch isn't just monster density huh?
Maybe in the future we can not make assumptions about the contents of a patch until the patch notes are out? Or at least simply not assume that if a feature isn't mentioned by a blue that it's not in the patch?
EDIT
Overneathe, I read your guide to formatting, can you tell!? Good stuff!
I guess the patch will come out 1 or 2 weeks after PTR.
Ha. Bagstone.
welcome to the dark side. It isnt where anyone who cares wants to be.
Ha. Bagstone.
Cause they did an awesome job of this before launch a year ago. I bet my farm there wasnt even a real beta test pre-launch.
Blizzard has to hurry up with the improved quality drop patch... Or they'll loose a lot of the actual player base, after the release of Marvel Heroes.
I have never heard of "Marvel Heroes". I just had to look it up and have to say this is the biggest joke ever... but well.
Can't even recall how many times I've read "Blizzard has to hurry up with <finishing/fixing game X>... Or they'll loose a lot of the actual player base to <game Y>." However, Blizzard is still the undisputed leader in the MMORPG genre, in the RTS genre, and in the hack'n'slay genre. Yeah... I'm sure everyone at Blizzard is really afraid of the 105349th game that will take over the Diablo player base...
But...but....its created by David Brevik! The lead visionary behind Diablo 2!!
(please ignore the fact that Diablo2 was released 13 years ago and he hasn't been a part of a single successful game in the mean time.)
And that he almost ruined the Diablo franchise before it started and has since been only in awful projects.
Ha. Bagstone.