Hello,
I'm new here (just signed in) and not sure how this works but from what i've seen a read it seems that Blizzard is monitoring this site/threads so I'm posting this in here as well
Here we go:
We’ve talked about the loot system for ages now so i'm going to ignore it in this post. Instead I want to talk about the classes - Barbs vs everything else mostly.
I struggle to understand why the barb is so OP compares to the other chars or if I’ll phrase it diffidently - why the other classes are so weak compare to the barb?
The barb is a great tank char yet with his skills he has the potential to deal the highest damage, he's the most mobile class and can run fastest (using his skill and fury which never ends as long as there are monsters) and he's a super tank.
I would like to compare him to the others:
Wizard: that class is also good and with the right gear you can kills everything without dying because like the barb you can fill up the pool very fast and spam skills to freeze and negate damage - you won't die but it takes longer to kill. you can also use archon which is great and you can clear everything pretty fast with it and with the amount of monsters there are around you can remain in archon form all the time.
Monk: the monk is a super tank with the ability to dodge nonstop. He also has the potential to deal tons of damage on crits and he has great cc skills plus his basic attacks hits a group of enemies. he can clear everything without a problem but he's mobility is slow.
WD: I don't know much about that class, haven't played with it much but I think that with the upcoming monster power the WD will need stronger skills, his pets are stronger now but I don't know if it's enough or not.
DH: at 1st everyone thought they are the best because they can kill fast - well any class can kill fast, dps wise DH's aren't the best, other classes can crit for 600K - 20 mil damage per hit while a DH with 120K~ dps will crit for 200-250K. The DH is by far the most fragile class of them all - for that reason I think he should have tank skills, skills that would keep him alive but those skills are being nerf time after time again. In 1.05 gloom is being nerf - yea I know the monsters will deal less damage but if we want to play in lv 10 or a bit less we will die in 1 hit even if we have decent amount of all res. here are the reasons:
1- DH rely on their disc to stay alive and the disc ends really really fast and it refreshes really slow esp if you compare it to the barb's fury and the Wiz's mana that keeps both of them alive. The barb's fury allows him to be super mobile (sprint and ww) dealing damage and healing while taking very little damage in the process esp if he's using WOTB.
Wiz fills his mana in a sec which allows him to freeze and use diamond skin nonstop.
DH refresh his disc very slow and if we want to refresh it faster we need to use 4-5 slots (1-2 slots in the bar: suppression fire multishot and preparation, 3 slots passive) and even then it’s not enough and we find ourselves running around without disc almost praying not to get hit.
now it's not a big deal because we don't die a lot (few-several times per run) but with the new monster power its a whole different story.
2- DH's gear is weaker than other classes esp if we use 2H weapons. while non bows/x-bows 2H weapons can have 6% life steal, over 1800 life on hit and over 5K life after kill DH's X-bows can only half of that and they are extremely rare. it's super hard to find a weapon that has high dps, socket, LOH/LS and they cost a lot more than 1h weapons for other classes.
if you check the AH you can find lots of 1h weapons with sockets, LS/LOH and even basic crit damage and they cost less than 150 mil. more than that Barbs and monks take less damage as setup (30 or 50% less damage regardless to gear). Barbs also have belts with life steal while others have none. most items that have life on hit on them (rings, pants, amulets) aren't suitable for DH's because for us it's a must to have good amount of dps and when I say good I mean 100K-150~, for DH- we need to kill the enemy before we run out of disc because when we're out it's a matter of time before we take 2-3 hits and die. Blizzard should really improve the items for DH esp the 2h bows and crossbows so they'll have 6% life steal and 1800 life on hit like other 2h weapons and they should be a lot more common like 1H and 2H melee weapons are. if the class has really good gear DH can have 150K+ unbuffed dps but other classes can have the same and they are a lot more resilient than the DH. more than that because we are so fragile DH need to move all the time and we kite a lot and while we kite we spend time not dealing damage. like I said, In 1.04 its not a big deal but when 1.05 will be out we'll want to play at higher difficulty and as it seems for now it's not possible without dying 200K times and playing really really slow and safe.
3- About 70% of the elites/packs I'm facing have reflect damage - it's a huge problem for DH - due to the fact that we don't have life steal/life on hit like the other classes. right now we're using gloom to counter it but in 1.05 we'll take more damage because we won't be able to dodge from it, gloom is also being nerf and the life steal is going down to 15% and Trail's damage is being nerf badly so the tactic of using gloom with trail to heal up won't work anymore. monsters will have more hp which only makes it even worse and we really want to play in a harder difficulty level.
Some of the new skills in 1.05 looks nice but they won't help and won't solve the problems I've mentioned above. I honestly don't understand why the most fragile class doesn't have the highest mobility and he's also very limited in disc and hatred while a tank class like the barb is super mobile and his fury just won't end as long as there are monsters around and there are always monsters around esp if you don't do full runs. unlike DH's and WD Barbs and monks don't need to kite (unless they have weak gear) and they can easily gain the amount of dps DH have so they kill just as fast if not faster.
I'm not asking you to nerf other classes like the Barb but more balance is needed in the game. instead of nerfing and making people upset you should balance it by buffing up the other class and improve the gear they can use so it's even to the other classes.
Personally, I can farm act 3 without a problem. true, I die sometimes and sometimes its very annoying (reflect damage) but I won't be able to farm at higher difficulty level esp not at lv 10 because of the fact that the DH is a weak class because of the way he's built (skills, hatred and disc). I'm not a glass cannon dh, I have 120K~ unbuffed dps, 60K~ hp, 3300 armor, 200~ all res, 600 life regen per sec, 260 life on hit... my gear is worth over 500 million.
for that king of gold you can gear up the other classes and be stronger.
if you want an example to what I mean: go to youtube and search for: diablo 3 1.05 secret cow level.
I think that after you see this you'll understand what I'm talking about.
btw, you can do the same with a lesser gear - Immortal king set helps a lot but its not a must and the weapons he's got isn't a must. it will just take longer to kill them but you won't run out of fury and you'll stay super mobile.
Blizzard, I really hope that you'll balance this by buffing up the DH and maybe other classes as well. I don't want to delete my 570 hours played DH and start playing as barb only so i'll be able to play at a higher difficulty level in 1.05.
p.s. I'm very upset and annoyed by this but I tried to be as polite as I can be and be constructive. I hope it's worth it
..i was really trying to read this post.
It started as barb vs everything to DH's need a help in survivability. I stopped reading after i realized how long this thing was.
Unfortunately, after many years of playing online games and reading forums dedicated to them, I just tune out as soon as I see a whiny tone creep into any post about class balance. As soon as my spider-sense says "this isn't about him wanting to improve the game, this is about him wanting HIS character made more powerful", I can't read any more.
Ill try to expain you a little about where the problem actually is:
1) Your survival
You currently have 3.3k armor and 200 AR, which is an effective 5.3k armor. Monks and barbs usually have 7-8k armor (which alone is more survival than what you got) and 800-1000 AR, resulting in as much as 18k effective armor.
Drop some HP (60k is too much TBH) and get some more AR and even armor.
2) Your logic
You think that monster level 10 is a "must" but its simply a difficult you choose, if you can't handle it then you will need to go for a lower difficult. Unless you got extreme DPS you wont really experience the need for monster level 10 anyway.
3) DH's gear
It is not weaker, what you want is to wield 1.5 2h weapons. Getting bows and xbows buffed to the lvl of 2h weps would also make it impossible for you to wear a quiver with your bow/xbow in order to balance it.
In addition, rings and amulets can have enough stats, look at this:
Dex
Vit
LoH
Crit Chance
Crit Damage
Sure, it will be expensive, but what you complain about is actually that perfect items are expensive, and yes they are because they are rare.
So please don't come here to whine over DHs being bad, they aren't.
Sorry it got posted 3 times - on the 1st two attempts I got errors saying I can't post url until I post 10 times so I posted again until it said the thread was posted. spamming wasn't my intention at all.
survivability is a huge problem for DH - only thing that keeps us alive is gloom (getting nerf) and dodge and there is nothing you can do about that. I have friends with 400-500 all res and more dps and they tested 1.05 ptr (not at lv 10 but at lv 5 and 6) and they say it's BS as well. The survivability issue comes from the lack of life steal/life on hit items - bow/x-bows are weaker than 1 and 2h items and its a fact - they didn't change them in 1.04 nor in 1.05 (life steal/life on hit and life after kill is half than what you can get on other items for other classes). our only options are rings and amulets and you can't find any that have both life on hit and good dps. it's easy to find barbs/monks/wiz with 100K plus dps and they have tons of life on hit/life steal - most of it comes from the weapons. all I'm saying blizzard needs to even it out by raising the life steal... on 2h bows/x-bows and make them more common because they are super super rare - check the ah and you'll see what i'm talking about.
as for the remark of x-bow and quiver - if you check you'll see that the main stats can be even with other 1H and 2H weapons: quiver can have 300~ vit and dex at max and other 1h and 2h are the same. if you use two 1h items you gain 15% IAS. only thing not balanced is the fact that bows/x-bows can have half life steal/life on hit and life after kill.
2nd, the survivability issue comes from the lack of disc and skills, if you compare it to barb/wiz.. they never run out of fury/mana as long as there are enemies. for DH's the opposite is true and if we want to gain more disc to survive a bit more you need to "sacrifice" 5 slots of skills while barbs and wiz sacrifice nothing, they get all of it from the gear they wear not from using passive or active skills.
I haven't played as a WD but from looking at his skills I think he has some survivability issues as well.
Ill try to expain you a little about where the problem actually is:
1) Your survival
You currently have 3.3k armor and 200 AR, which is an effective 5.3k armor. Monks and barbs usually have 7-8k armor (which alone is more survival than what you got) and 800-1000 AR, resulting in as much as 18k effective armor.
Drop some HP (60k is too much TBH) and get some more AR and even armor.
I actually have about 6k armor and 800 res without a shield as a monk. That's not even counting the 50% armor buff.
Argh, Darksiders, why the sudden white text? What's wrong with the standard text color?
for some reason i'm having some issues with this forum - getting errors and my posts aren't being displayed well - atleast not on my screen. I had to change the color because after the first 4 lines the rest was gone - it was black on black while I changed nothing. so I simply changed all to white so it will be readable. I'm using chrome now hopefully it will solve all the weird problems.
btw, if you have nothing constructive or insightful to say it's best that you'll say nothing.
Ignoring the massive amounts of character selection whining I'll bite.
Gloom is not getting a nerf... there are no defensive nerfs this patch, if you had read the updates so far all incoming damage is getting 25% reduction, FFS you now have two extra seconds of reduced incoming damageand leech which then leads to another two seconds to gain more discipline. You get a tanking pet and that goes a long way! WD was my first char and to be honest you know shit about WD's they have amazing survivability they have shit damage output compared other classes. DH defensive resources compared to other classes I agree aren’t the best unless you have the gear and setup for it. TBH I think DH's have amazing mobility half their abilities are used to escape, the issue is the discipline resource.
TL;DR
Roll a barb or change your build
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
The God judges that having 200 res is laughable in any inferno scenario. 500-600 is barely enough for a act3 farming for a ranged class without -30% damage. Expecting good survivability at increased difficulty settings with 200 res is unrealistic. Clavdivs, The God, warns you about DH ability to wear 2-hander and a quiver - something that no other class has and which almost always gives +15% IAS, This whine is judged irrational.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
A proud and fearless leader and only member of the "Save the Diablo III" project I have been a game designer, modder and balancer. Link below is to my blog, where i discuss flaws of this game and offering solutions.
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Barbs are stronger than the other classes, but I really don't want to see them nerfed. I think the way that the WW spec's skills work together is really neat, and makes other classes feel boring in comparison. I also think their speed is just about right - it's not too fast, the other classes are too slow. Rather than taking the lazy way out and nerfing barbs (which is exactly what they're doing, unfortunately - probably due to budget limitations imposed by their owners Activision / Vivendi), I would much prefer they buffed the other classes to have not only run + farm speed equivalent to barbs, but builds which are engaging and fun to play like WW is currently.
Your perception of DHs being weak is due to your gear, not the class. 200 all resist is extraordinarily low. Keep in mind all resist includes physical resist, and armor mitigates *all* incoming damage, not only physical. I agree that Blizzard screwed up here, the intuitive way to see it is that armor reduces only physical damage and that resists only reduce magical damage, but this is not true. In short, all of the complaints you have about DHs are only due to the fact that your gear is not adequate for the content you're attempting.
I personally am most concerned about WDs. With a finite supply of mana which regenerates very slowly, our tactic is to have gear such that one mana bubble is enough for an elite pack - usually barely. If we come across a pack which for whatever reason causes us to run out of mana (extra health, shielding, etc.) we take far, far longer to kill it than if one mana bubble is enough. I forsee higher monster power being off-limits for WDs due to this, regardless of gear.
I'm new here (just signed in) and not sure how this works but from what i've seen a read it seems that Blizzard is monitoring this site/threads so I'm posting this in here as well
Here we go:
We’ve talked about the loot system for ages now so i'm going to ignore it in this post. Instead I want to talk about the classes - Barbs vs everything else mostly.
I struggle to understand why the barb is so OP compares to the other chars or if I’ll phrase it diffidently - why the other classes are so weak compare to the barb?
The barb is a great tank char yet with his skills he has the potential to deal the highest damage, he's the most mobile class and can run fastest (using his skill and fury which never ends as long as there are monsters) and he's a super tank.
I would like to compare him to the others:
Wizard: that class is also good and with the right gear you can kills everything without dying because like the barb you can fill up the pool very fast and spam skills to freeze and negate damage - you won't die but it takes longer to kill. you can also use archon which is great and you can clear everything pretty fast with it and with the amount of monsters there are around you can remain in archon form all the time.
Monk: the monk is a super tank with the ability to dodge nonstop. He also has the potential to deal tons of damage on crits and he has great cc skills plus his basic attacks hits a group of enemies. he can clear everything without a problem but he's mobility is slow.
WD: I don't know much about that class, haven't played with it much but I think that with the upcoming monster power the WD will need stronger skills, his pets are stronger now but I don't know if it's enough or not.
DH: at 1st everyone thought they are the best because they can kill fast - well any class can kill fast, dps wise DH's aren't the best, other classes can crit for 600K - 20 mil damage per hit while a DH with 120K~ dps will crit for 200-250K. The DH is by far the most fragile class of them all - for that reason I think he should have tank skills, skills that would keep him alive but those skills are being nerf time after time again. In 1.05 gloom is being nerf - yea I know the monsters will deal less damage but if we want to play in lv 10 or a bit less we will die in 1 hit even if we have decent amount of all res. here are the reasons:
1- DH rely on their disc to stay alive and the disc ends really really fast and it refreshes really slow esp if you compare it to the barb's fury and the Wiz's mana that keeps both of them alive. The barb's fury allows him to be super mobile (sprint and ww) dealing damage and healing while taking very little damage in the process esp if he's using WOTB.
Wiz fills his mana in a sec which allows him to freeze and use diamond skin nonstop.
DH refresh his disc very slow and if we want to refresh it faster we need to use 4-5 slots (1-2 slots in the bar: suppression fire multishot and preparation, 3 slots passive) and even then it’s not enough and we find ourselves running around without disc almost praying not to get hit.
now it's not a big deal because we don't die a lot (few-several times per run) but with the new monster power its a whole different story.
2- DH's gear is weaker than other classes esp if we use 2H weapons. while non bows/x-bows 2H weapons can have 6% life steal, over 1800 life on hit and over 5K life after kill DH's X-bows can only half of that and they are extremely rare. it's super hard to find a weapon that has high dps, socket, LOH/LS and they cost a lot more than 1h weapons for other classes.
if you check the AH you can find lots of 1h weapons with sockets, LS/LOH and even basic crit damage and they cost less than 150 mil. more than that Barbs and monks take less damage as setup (30 or 50% less damage regardless to gear). Barbs also have belts with life steal while others have none. most items that have life on hit on them (rings, pants, amulets) aren't suitable for DH's because for us it's a must to have good amount of dps and when I say good I mean 100K-150~, for DH- we need to kill the enemy before we run out of disc because when we're out it's a matter of time before we take 2-3 hits and die. Blizzard should really improve the items for DH esp the 2h bows and crossbows so they'll have 6% life steal and 1800 life on hit like other 2h weapons and they should be a lot more common like 1H and 2H melee weapons are. if the class has really good gear DH can have 150K+ unbuffed dps but other classes can have the same and they are a lot more resilient than the DH. more than that because we are so fragile DH need to move all the time and we kite a lot and while we kite we spend time not dealing damage. like I said, In 1.04 its not a big deal but when 1.05 will be out we'll want to play at higher difficulty and as it seems for now it's not possible without dying 200K times and playing really really slow and safe.
3- About 70% of the elites/packs I'm facing have reflect damage - it's a huge problem for DH - due to the fact that we don't have life steal/life on hit like the other classes. right now we're using gloom to counter it but in 1.05 we'll take more damage because we won't be able to dodge from it, gloom is also being nerf and the life steal is going down to 15% and Trail's damage is being nerf badly so the tactic of using gloom with trail to heal up won't work anymore. monsters will have more hp which only makes it even worse and we really want to play in a harder difficulty level.
Some of the new skills in 1.05 looks nice but they won't help and won't solve the problems I've mentioned above. I honestly don't understand why the most fragile class doesn't have the highest mobility and he's also very limited in disc and hatred while a tank class like the barb is super mobile and his fury just won't end as long as there are monsters around and there are always monsters around esp if you don't do full runs. unlike DH's and WD Barbs and monks don't need to kite (unless they have weak gear) and they can easily gain the amount of dps DH have so they kill just as fast if not faster.
I'm not asking you to nerf other classes like the Barb but more balance is needed in the game. instead of nerfing and making people upset you should balance it by buffing up the other class and improve the gear they can use so it's even to the other classes.
Personally, I can farm act 3 without a problem. true, I die sometimes and sometimes its very annoying (reflect damage) but I won't be able to farm at higher difficulty level esp not at lv 10 because of the fact that the DH is a weak class because of the way he's built (skills, hatred and disc). I'm not a glass cannon dh, I have 120K~ unbuffed dps, 60K~ hp, 3300 armor, 200~ all res, 600 life regen per sec, 260 life on hit... my gear is worth over 500 million.
for that king of gold you can gear up the other classes and be stronger.
if you want an example to what I mean: go to youtube and search for: diablo 3 1.05 secret cow level.
I think that after you see this you'll understand what I'm talking about.
btw, you can do the same with a lesser gear - Immortal king set helps a lot but its not a must and the weapons he's got isn't a must. it will just take longer to kill them but you won't run out of fury and you'll stay super mobile.
Blizzard, I really hope that you'll balance this by buffing up the DH and maybe other classes as well. I don't want to delete my 570 hours played DH and start playing as barb only so i'll be able to play at a higher difficulty level in 1.05.
p.s. I'm very upset and annoyed by this but I tried to be as polite as I can be and be constructive. I hope it's worth it
It started as barb vs everything to DH's need a help in survivability. I stopped reading after i realized how long this thing was.
Also, copy/pasting the same shit 5 times makes people less likely to read your whining posts.
Crusader DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, meant for Crusaders
My Wizard
Next time use an online image hosting service buddy.
I stopped reading at that moment ... just after the big laugh
tl;dr lazy but fun lol
1) Your survival
You currently have 3.3k armor and 200 AR, which is an effective 5.3k armor. Monks and barbs usually have 7-8k armor (which alone is more survival than what you got) and 800-1000 AR, resulting in as much as 18k effective armor.
Drop some HP (60k is too much TBH) and get some more AR and even armor.
2) Your logic
You think that monster level 10 is a "must" but its simply a difficult you choose, if you can't handle it then you will need to go for a lower difficult. Unless you got extreme DPS you wont really experience the need for monster level 10 anyway.
3) DH's gear
It is not weaker, what you want is to wield 1.5 2h weapons. Getting bows and xbows buffed to the lvl of 2h weps would also make it impossible for you to wear a quiver with your bow/xbow in order to balance it.
In addition, rings and amulets can have enough stats, look at this:
Dex
Vit
LoH
Crit Chance
Crit Damage
Sure, it will be expensive, but what you complain about is actually that perfect items are expensive, and yes they are because they are rare.
So please don't come here to whine over DHs being bad, they aren't.
survivability is a huge problem for DH - only thing that keeps us alive is gloom (getting nerf) and dodge and there is nothing you can do about that. I have friends with 400-500 all res and more dps and they tested 1.05 ptr (not at lv 10 but at lv 5 and 6) and they say it's BS as well. The survivability issue comes from the lack of life steal/life on hit items - bow/x-bows are weaker than 1 and 2h items and its a fact - they didn't change them in 1.04 nor in 1.05 (life steal/life on hit and life after kill is half than what you can get on other items for other classes). our only options are rings and amulets and you can't find any that have both life on hit and good dps. it's easy to find barbs/monks/wiz with 100K plus dps and they have tons of life on hit/life steal - most of it comes from the weapons. all I'm saying blizzard needs to even it out by raising the life steal... on 2h bows/x-bows and make them more common because they are super super rare - check the ah and you'll see what i'm talking about.
as for the remark of x-bow and quiver - if you check you'll see that the main stats can be even with other 1H and 2H weapons: quiver can have 300~ vit and dex at max and other 1h and 2h are the same. if you use two 1h items you gain 15% IAS. only thing not balanced is the fact that bows/x-bows can have half life steal/life on hit and life after kill.
2nd, the survivability issue comes from the lack of disc and skills, if you compare it to barb/wiz.. they never run out of fury/mana as long as there are enemies. for DH's the opposite is true and if we want to gain more disc to survive a bit more you need to "sacrifice" 5 slots of skills while barbs and wiz sacrifice nothing, they get all of it from the gear they wear not from using passive or active skills.
I haven't played as a WD but from looking at his skills I think he has some survivability issues as well.
I actually have about 6k armor and 800 res without a shield as a monk. That's not even counting the 50% armor buff.
for some reason i'm having some issues with this forum - getting errors and my posts aren't being displayed well - atleast not on my screen. I had to change the color because after the first 4 lines the rest was gone - it was black on black while I changed nothing. so I simply changed all to white so it will be readable. I'm using chrome now hopefully it will solve all the weird problems.
btw, if you have nothing constructive or insightful to say it's best that you'll say nothing.
Ignoring the massive amounts of character selection whining I'll bite.
Gloom is not getting a nerf... there are no defensive nerfs this patch, if you had read the updates so far all incoming damage is getting 25% reduction, FFS you now have two extra seconds of reduced incoming damage and leech which then leads to another two seconds to gain more discipline. You get a tanking pet and that goes a long way! WD was my first char and to be honest you know shit about WD's they have amazing survivability they have shit damage output compared other classes. DH defensive resources compared to other classes I agree aren’t the best unless you have the gear and setup for it. TBH I think DH's have amazing mobility half their abilities are used to escape, the issue is the discipline resource.
TL;DR
Roll a barb or change your build
I have been a game designer, modder and balancer. Link below is to my blog, where i discuss flaws of this game and offering solutions.
YOU can help this cause by sharing a link in your signature! Please do, if you like my ideas
http://savediablo3.wix.com/diablo3#!home/mainPage
Your perception of DHs being weak is due to your gear, not the class. 200 all resist is extraordinarily low. Keep in mind all resist includes physical resist, and armor mitigates *all* incoming damage, not only physical. I agree that Blizzard screwed up here, the intuitive way to see it is that armor reduces only physical damage and that resists only reduce magical damage, but this is not true. In short, all of the complaints you have about DHs are only due to the fact that your gear is not adequate for the content you're attempting.
I personally am most concerned about WDs. With a finite supply of mana which regenerates very slowly, our tactic is to have gear such that one mana bubble is enough for an elite pack - usually barely. If we come across a pack which for whatever reason causes us to run out of mana (extra health, shielding, etc.) we take far, far longer to kill it than if one mana bubble is enough. I forsee higher monster power being off-limits for WDs due to this, regardless of gear.