Just see the time you play until you get a upgrade (both drops and getting money to buy a item). I get a upgrade every 10 hours or so. Thats a good number. I play like 2 hours per day, so 1 item every week is what I expect from the high end of farm based game. I remember old lineage times were one needed like 50 hours of efficient perfect planned farm to get a upgrade.
I think majority of people don't really now what they don't like about D3. It's not a matter of time you take to get a upgrade. It's the lack of variety in item types and ways you have to get a upgrade. It's lack of different interations inside the game.
Its absolutely retarded that anyting lower then lvl 60 drops in inferno, i mean HELLO you have to be lvl 60 to even be in inferno. finding lvl 52 items is the dumbest thing ever. Loot system is absolutley broken.
Loot is randomly generated and if EVERY drop from Inferno were guaranteed to be for lvl 60 then it would remove a lot of the farming we must do for loot. As has been said, this is Diablo, it is all about farming loot not about getting the best loot as quickly as possible with no effort like in WoW. Plus, I have made a shit ton of gold off those lower level rares because guess what! PEOPLE HAVE ALTS! OMG! Also, some of those lower level rares can roll good enough to be upgrades as well.
I think majority of people don't really now what they don't like about D3. It's not a matter of time you take to get a upgrade. It's the lack of variety in item types and ways you have to get a upgrade. It's lack of different interations inside the game.
This is the issue I have with D3, I have no idea how many people agree and it really is a moot point seeing as how whether I'm in the majority or minority it has nothing to do with my enjoyment of a game. The drop rates and ilevels of drops for inferno are fine the way they are, given the opportunity I wouldn't change them, but the items themselves bore the hell out of me at this point...not only do I gain no excitement out of a rare dropping I also gain nothing out of it being a mundane upgrade. Maybe my tastes have changed since D2 but I was still enjoying that less than a year ago
im not saying to increase the ilvl 63 items all i was saying is that it makes no sense to spend several minutes and maybe even dying a few times to get a lvl 52 item in inferno, 58.59.60 could take the place of all the low ilvl gear, and they could keep there 61-63 tables the same, im just saying
>>>>>it makes as much sense for a lvl 63 mob to drop a lvl 52 item as it does for a lvl 52 mob to drop a lvl 63 item.<<<<<....
*** simplest soloution of all make it so that the item dropped is within 3 lvls of the mob*****
so if its a lvl 60 trash mob the lowest they could drop is a lvl 57
and if its a lvl 63 pack of champs the lowest is a lvl 60..
And your solution would flood the market with ilvl60 plus items. Everyone would get the best gear on a regular basis, there would be no progression of gear because you would easily go to the auction house and get nearly perfect rolls of items for almost free. The RMAH would be useless, and Blizzard would see no return on investment for the entire system they created.
And the limiting rolls to certain affixes on items is an even worse idea. You guys, really, crack me up.
So you're saying A) ilvl 60 items are very good and you are clearing act3/4 with these items? And You're saying that with the tables right now, you're finding the best gear on a regular basis?
I want your luck, really. People are saying Diablo 3 isn't a substitute for a job, but if I would find the best gear on a regular basis, like you claim to do, I'd be a millionaire by now.
Also: I wouldn't mind if Blizzard removed a few possiblities of affixes on some items, no INT on Mighty weapons, no STR on Spirit Stones etc., that said, they shouldn't force the STR on mighty weapons and DEX on Spirit Stones either. Just remove the 1-2 affixes out of the 20+ affix pool and it's already a whole lot better, more importantly: less frustrating.
Ok since you don't get the point of my post because you are incompetent, let me reword it for you.
If blizzard were to change Act3/4 of inferno to 100% ilvl63 drops, you would still cry about it.
Why? I can already see your cry baby self saying
"Whaaa! Why do I not always get a drop from elites?!"
"Whaaa! Why doesn't my ilvl63 always roll godly?!"
"Whaaa! I can't sell my awesome ilvl63 items for billions like before cause it drops so often now!"
Layman's term? You can never please a cry baby - leave it the way it is.
So you're saying people would cry that they don't always get drops from elites, even though you just hypothetically upped the drop chance to 100%?
I agree with your point though, you can never please everyone at the same time. They could carefully alter a few changes in drops here and there, without altering the prices on the auction house.
Ok since you don't get the point of my post because you are incompetent, let me reword it for you.
If blizzard were to change Act3/4 of inferno to 100% ilvl63 drops, you would still cry about it.
Why? I can already see your cry baby self saying
"Whaaa! Why do I not always get a drop from elites?!"
"Whaaa! Why doesn't my ilvl63 always roll godly?!"
"Whaaa! I can't sell my awesome ilvl63 items for billions like before cause it drops so often now!"
Layman's term? You can never please a cry baby - leave it the way it is.
So you're saying people would cry that they don't always get drops from elites, even though you just hypothetically upped the drop chance to 100%?
I agree with your point though, you can never please everyone at the same time. They could carefully alter a few changes in drops here and there, without altering the prices on the auction house.
I think that there are many vocal players who wouldn't be happy if Blizzard mailed them gold-plated Ferraris. To that extent, I think there are some minor tweaks to loot that could be made.
1) Condense all follower special items into one, the class-specific follower relics are fucking TERRIBLE and I really hate it.
2) As you said, make class-specific items unable to have the "wrong" primary stat (no int/dex on barb gear), but while still not forcing str on barb gear.
3) Somehow address the "damage" issue on weapons. I wish I had SS'd it, but I just got a *really* good 63 wand, except it had like 350 damage. I don't think that having such a wide damage range on weapons is actually helpful at this point.
Beyond that, I'm not really sure much needs to be done to loot unless you want to delve into the world of "those who shall never be pleased."
Ok since you don't get the point of my post because you are incompetent, let me reword it for you.
If blizzard were to change Act3/4 of inferno to 100% ilvl63 drops, you would still cry about it.
Why? I can already see your cry baby self saying
"Whaaa! Why do I not always get a drop from elites?!"
"Whaaa! Why doesn't my ilvl63 always roll godly?!"
"Whaaa! I can't sell my awesome ilvl63 items for billions like before cause it drops so often now!"
Layman's term? You can never please a cry baby - leave it the way it is.
So you're saying people would cry that they don't always get drops from elites, even though you just hypothetically upped the drop chance to 100%?
I agree with your point though, you can never please everyone at the same time. They could carefully alter a few changes in drops here and there, without altering the prices on the auction house.
I think that there are many vocal players who wouldn't be happy if Blizzard mailed them gold-plated Ferraris. To that extent, I think there are some minor tweaks to loot that could be made.
1) Condense all follower special items into one, the class-specific follower relics are fucking TERRIBLE and I really hate it.
2) As you said, make class-specific items unable to have the "wrong" primary stat (no int/dex on barb gear), but while still not forcing str on barb gear.
3) Somehow address the "damage" issue on weapons. I wish I had SS'd it, but I just got a *really* good 63 wand, except it had like 350 damage. I don't think that having such a wide damage range on weapons is actually helpful at this point.
Beyond that, I'm not really sure much needs to be done to loot unless you want to delve into the world of "those who shall never be pleased."
Very well said, I personally play at least 50% of the time with friends, so followers aren't that important to me (although the Scoundrel gives me a good 4-5k dps boost + 6k himself), but I see your point. Also, ilvl 61+ follower items couldn't hurt either, in my opinion.
Well, everyday, there are less and less people online from my friend list, people just got bored of this gear grind, its all gear dependent, mainly resist, and there's 0 mechanic in the game. lets face it, you have low chance of getting 61-63 items, and when you get them, the chance of getting a decent stat item is even lower, and probably not for your class. And then people who don't have good luck finding items, will eventually broke from spending too much on repair bills, because they don't have gold or gears to begin with. The only option available for them now is to use the RMAH, for which most people think its dumb to spend RL gold to buy digital pixels.
Well welcome to Diablo. Did you get lost on your way to WoW? Diablo is and has always been a gear farming game. Did you not play D2? If you found all your gear the first week then what's the point in playing. As for going broke farming, if your dieing that much then you are in the wrong difficulty. Go back and farm hell act3 or 4 for a bit until you do get some better gear and gold then go farm in inferno.
Well, everyday, there are less and less people online from my friend list, people just got bored of this gear grind, its all gear dependent, mainly resist, and there's 0 mechanic in the game. lets face it, you have low chance of getting 61-63 items, and when you get them, the chance of getting a decent stat item is even lower, and probably not for your class. And then people who don't have good luck finding items, will eventually broke from spending too much on repair bills, because they don't have gold or gears to begin with. The only option available for them now is to use the RMAH, for which most people think its dumb to spend RL gold to buy digital pixels.
Well welcome to Diablo. Did you get lost on your way to WoW? Diablo is and has always been a gear farming game. Did you not play D2? If you found all your gear the first week then what's the point in playing. As for going broke farming, if your dieing that much then you are in the wrong difficulty. Go back and farm hell act3 or 4 for a bit until you do get some better gear and gold then go farm in inferno.
people often say this, but i felt there was more to diablo 2 than gear farming, mainly pvp, low level dueling, UBERS. Also when i DID farm gear i didn't have to listen to any of the stupid storyline dialogue
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Working with adobe and/or java is like pushing a paper clip against a building and expecting it to move...
Sorry, sorry, WHAT? So, on the one hand you're telling me that I don't NEED or HAVE to use the AH, it's not essential, I can play the game perfectly fine without it, etc etc, and on the other hand, you're telling me that ruining the AH ruins the entire GAME?
On the one hand you tell me that "why does it matter what other people are doing, this isn't competitive gameplay, just do your own thing", etc etc, and on the other hand you tell me that if OTHER people get more items, it ruins the game for ME?
Cognitive dissonance much?
Tee hee! Maka.
I thought I hated the little reward that came with playing Inferno. And I think people are more upset about its seeming lack of reward as well due to this being the only endgame in sight as of now.
I like though how I work hard in Act 2 and inch by inch I fight my way past some elites. And yeah it's expensive as hell if you keep dying. And so like others I just go farm Hell for gold. But I like working hard and earning my gold and then shopping on AH for some gear that may even be just slightly better than what I got but it's a step up regardless and then I gradually get better at Inferno. Like I still can't get past Act 2 for the life of me. But I like seeing how I'm gradually surviving things more and more. I really don't want Inferno to served to me all easily. This part of the game is where I want the grind to be. The key though is either playing by yourself with a well equipped follower, or joining up with people you know cause strangers like to wander off and dry hump tree stumps.
We've been used to a design in Diablo 2 where MF simply improved your chances are getting gear in a better colour, affixes were not a concern. Yet now, we are presented with a system upon where after the game checks to see if an item will roll at its highest tier, it now follows a series of brackets to determine the quality of its rare status.
Why is this a problem? It's twofold. Because the endgame right now IS rare items, and we also have item level to contend with, players are left with two options.
They can farm act 1 with high MF for the significantly rare chance of finding an ilvl 63 (or 62 jewelry) item with a reasonable chance of rolling 5-6 affixes
They can farm act 3 with little-no MF for the uncommon chance of finding an ilvl 63 with a very low chance of rolling 5-6 affixes
It's standard fare to accept that only those with gold values in the tens and hundreds of millions have the capacity to find quality farming gear that also has MF. Therefore, the vast majority of players are in a lose-lose situation. Either method offers you a staggeringly low chance of even acquiring a 5 or 6 affix, high ilvl rare. And this is even before getting into the huge variations on affixes that can spawn on those items.
Diablo 2's farming used to be like penny slots, if you tried enough times at single, quick runs you might not get much, but there was a pretty solid chance you would walk away with something pretty nice after a low to moderate amount of time invested. Diablo 3's farming is like buying a jackpot ticket. More expensive and the chance to get a return of sizable value is astronomically low.
I don't know what else needs to be said. This tier of affixes garbage has to be taken out, and each rare item needs an equal chance of rolling all its possible number of affixes. I would say increase the minimum # affixes on high level items to four, but that would probably be too much fun.
So you're saying A) ilvl 60 items are very good and you are clearing act3/4 with these items? And You're saying that with the tables right now, you're finding the best gear on a regular basis?
I want your luck, really. People are saying Diablo 3 isn't a substitute for a job, but if I would find the best gear on a regular basis, like you claim to do, I'd be a millionaire by now.
Also: I wouldn't mind if Blizzard removed a few possiblities of affixes on some items, no INT on Mighty weapons, no STR on Spirit Stones etc., that said, they shouldn't force the STR on mighty weapons and DEX on Spirit Stones either. Just remove the 1-2 affixes out of the 20+ affix pool and it's already a whole lot better, more importantly: less frustrating.
Wait, what? I think you totally did not comprehend my post. You guys just don't realize the damage that limiting ANYTHING in the item affix pools will seriously change the game play. Here, let me spell it out.
IF DROPS HAD ANY GUARANTEE, AT ALL, EVEN A MINOR ONE, ANY GUARANTEE AT ALL OF NOT BEING SHIT WHEN IT DROPPED THEN THE MARKET WILL BE FLOODED WITH VERY GOOD ITEMS.
When that happens, you can kiss gear progression good bye, there would be no point at all in playing a game based completely on item farming. If you stopped bad primary stats on class gear, that would be bad. If you limited the item levels that could drop by monster level, that would be bad. If you made it so your weapon that just dropped with really good stats always had good damage, that would be bad.
Getting bad items 99% of the time is the WHOLE FREAKING POINT of Diablo 3. Simply because when you DO get that awesome item 1% of the time, it feels epic and awesome and you feel good and you either get rich or become significantly more powerful because of it. I do not see how this is so hard to comprehend. Really guys, stop crying about bad items, they will not and should not go anywhere.
If you don't understand that concept by now, there really is no hope left for you, you really should find another game to play.
Well, everyday, there are less and less people online from my friend list, people just got bored of this gear grind
Yeah, people who don't like grinding will quit, specially if they just want to get "to the end of it already". Diablo is never about "getting there", it's about enjoying the journey.
its all gear dependent, mainly resist, and there's 0 mechanic in the game.
We have people finishing Inferno with absolutely crappy stats and items, through sheer mechanics mastering. They're capable of dodging everything, position themselves correctly, deal damage whenever needed, and use their skillsets to the fullest potential.
lets face it, you have low chance of getting 61-63 items, and when you get them, the chance of getting a decent stat item is even lower, and probably not for your class.
We get it, you don't get good drops. Welcome to the boat everybody's in. No need to not enjoy the game just because of that, uh? Eventually a good item will drop and it will feel awesome
Bad drops aren't retarded. Having the AH already means it's really easy to check for gear upgrades (instead of grinding), and smart usage of it or good farming will always lead to guaranteed upgrades. We need the bad drops so the game doesn't become easy-peasy everyone with 300k dps.
Its absolutely retarded that anyting lower then lvl 60 drops in inferno, i mean HELLO you have to be lvl 60 to even be in inferno. finding lvl 52 items is the dumbest thing ever. Loot system is absolutley broken.
And so it begins, let me explain, this is what makes this game run. It's why we like it when we do find a good item....
First inferno diablo kill got me a 52 and a 58 rare.
I cried. some champ packs are harder than diablo though to be fair.
And if you got a guaranteed upgrade, you would just kill bosses. Over, and over and over, until you had perfect items everywhere, and then you would do it some more. You would sell the new perfect items on the auction house, with everyone else, and sooner or later no one would buy anything because everyone has the best gear. Then everyone would stop playing, because they already have the best gear and they can't do anything with the drops that they keep getting, so why play?
Depends where you are in Inferno. Act 3 drops a lot of ilvl 60+ items. Only problem is that everything is junk.
Not EVERYTHING is junk. If 100% of the items were junk, then where are all the good items being sold for multiple millions of gold on the auction house, or for hundreds of dollars on the RMAH coming from?
i agree that the further in acts you go the better the gear, but im just saying that inferno dropping anything that is sub lvl 60 is dumb since you have to be 60 to get there.
and ya killing diablo on inferno was a disapointment got a 61 sheild and 53 bow
I already covered this, just pointing out how many times the same thing has been said.
The lower range is definitely far too low, but you can't have everything dropping in Inferno be good/ilvl 61-63. I have seen 52s myself, but I'd love if Inferno didn't drop anything lower than 57 or 58.
I don't think it really matters that much tbh, if you're killing anything in Inferno you want ilvl 63 drops, which have a fixed percentage. The rest is basically AH fodder (61-62) or garbage (60 and lower)
I actually said almost exactly this to a friend yesturday.
57 min in Act 1, 58 min in Act 2, 59 min in Act 3 and Act 4 gets 60+.
Just my thoughts anyways.
Terrible idea, see above. Flooding the market with really really good items is a bad idea.
im not saying to increase the ilvl 63 items all i was saying is that it makes no sense to spend several minutes and maybe even dying a few times to get a lvl 52 item in inferno, 58.59.60 could take the place of all the low ilvl gear, and they could keep there 61-63 tables the same, im just saying
>>>>>it makes as much sense for a lvl 63 mob to drop a lvl 52 item as it does for a lvl 52 mob to drop a lvl 63 item.<<<<<....
*** simplest soloution of all make it so that the item dropped is within 3 lvls of the mob*****
so if its a lvl 60 trash mob the lowest they could drop is a lvl 57
and if its a lvl 63 pack of champs the lowest is a lvl 60..
See, you guys are like a broken record. And it's always a bad song playing.
Ok since you don't get the point of my post because you are incompetent, let me reword it for you.
If blizzard were to change Act3/4 of inferno to 100% ilvl63 drops, you would still cry about it.
Why? I can already see your cry baby self saying
"Whaaa! Why do I not always get a drop from elites?!"
"Whaaa! Why doesn't my ilvl63 always roll godly?!"
"Whaaa! I can't sell my awesome ilvl63 items for billions like before cause it drops so often now!"
Layman's term? You can never please a cry baby - leave it the way it is.
So you're saying people would cry that they don't always get drops from elites, even though you just hypothetically upped the drop chance to 100%?
I agree with your point though, you can never please everyone at the same time. They could carefully alter a few changes in drops here and there, without altering the prices on the auction house.
I think that there are many vocal players who wouldn't be happy if Blizzard mailed them gold-plated Ferraris. To that extent, I think there are some minor tweaks to loot that could be made.
1) Condense all follower special items into one, the class-specific follower relics are fucking TERRIBLE and I really hate it.
2) As you said, make class-specific items unable to have the "wrong" primary stat (no int/dex on barb gear), but while still not forcing str on barb gear.
3) Somehow address the "damage" issue on weapons. I wish I had SS'd it, but I just got a *really* good 63 wand, except it had like 350 damage. I don't think that having such a wide damage range on weapons is actually helpful at this point.
Beyond that, I'm not really sure much needs to be done to loot unless you want to delve into the world of "those who shall never be pleased."
I explained this in another post, but putting limits of any kind on item drops will inevitably lead to the best items being everywhere, and no point to playing the game.
We've been used to a design in Diablo 2 where MF simply improved your chances are getting gear in a better colour, affixes were not a concern. Yet now, we are presented with a system upon where after the game checks to see if an item will roll at its highest tier, it now follows a series of brackets to determine the quality of its rare status.
Why is this a problem? It's twofold. Because the endgame right now IS rare items, and we also have item level to contend with, players are left with two options.
They can farm act 1 with high MF for the significantly rare chance of finding an ilvl 63 (or 62 jewelry) item with a reasonable chance of rolling 5-6 affixes
They can farm act 3 with little-no MF for the uncommon chance of finding an ilvl 63 with a very low chance of rolling 5-6 affixes
It's standard fare to accept that only those with gold values in the tens and hundreds of millions have the capacity to find quality farming gear that also has MF. Therefore, the vast majority of players are in a lose-lose situation. Either method offers you a staggeringly low chance of even acquiring a 5 or 6 affix, high ilvl rare. And this is even before getting into the huge variations on affixes that can spawn on those items.
Diablo 2's farming used to be like penny slots, if you tried enough times at single, quick runs you might not get much, but there was a pretty solid chance you would walk away with something pretty nice after a low to moderate amount of time invested. Diablo 3's farming is like buying a jackpot ticket. More expensive and the chance to get a return of sizable value is astronomically low.
I don't know what else needs to be said. This tier of affixes garbage has to be taken out, and each rare item needs an equal chance of rolling all its possible number of affixes. I would say increase the minimum # affixes on high level items to four, but that would probably be too much fun.
I can't take it anymore, this thread, I already said it earlier, you guys kill me. You absolutely can not, ever, put any sort of guarantee on item drops being good, that would lead to very bad things. All right, I'm done now. Continue on, go slay some demons folks.
So you're saying A) ilvl 60 items are very good and you are clearing act3/4 with these items? And You're saying that with the tables right now, you're finding the best gear on a regular basis?
I want your luck, really. People are saying Diablo 3 isn't a substitute for a job, but if I would find the best gear on a regular basis, like you claim to do, I'd be a millionaire by now.
Also: I wouldn't mind if Blizzard removed a few possiblities of affixes on some items, no INT on Mighty weapons, no STR on Spirit Stones etc., that said, they shouldn't force the STR on mighty weapons and DEX on Spirit Stones either. Just remove the 1-2 affixes out of the 20+ affix pool and it's already a whole lot better, more importantly: less frustrating.
Wait, what? I think you totally did not comprehend my post. You guys just don't realize the damage that limiting ANYTHING in the item affix pools will seriously change the game play. Here, let me spell it out.
IF DROPS HAD ANY GUARANTEE, AT ALL, EVEN A MINOR ONE, ANY GUARANTEE AT ALL OF NOT BEING SHIT WHEN IT DROPPED THEN THE MARKET WILL BE FLOODED WITH VERY GOOD ITEMS.
When that happens, you can kiss gear progression good bye, there would be no point at all in playing a game based completely on item farming. If you stopped bad primary stats on class gear, that would be bad. If you limited the item levels that could drop by monster level, that would be bad. If you made it so your weapon that just dropped with really good stats always had good damage, that would be bad.
Getting bad items 99% of the time is the WHOLE FREAKING POINT of Diablo 3. Simply because when you DO get that awesome item 1% of the time, it feels epic and awesome and you feel good and you either get rich or become significantly more powerful because of it. I do not see how this is so hard to comprehend. Really guys, stop crying about bad items, they will not and should not go anywhere.
If you don't understand that concept by now, there really is no hope left for you, you really should find another game to play.
I do understand it, I most likely farmed more than you as well. Not to brag or anything, but just to prove that I am by no means giving up on this game, nor its weird affixes. I'm just saying that it couldn't hurt to alter the affixes a bit and/or increase the ilvl of some items.
To clarify this last sentence: follower tokens are maxed at ilvl 59, that should be at least 62. I myself am mostly a co-op player, but there are a lot of people out there who do love to play alone, it should be easier for them to get high dps followers (or more tanky ones).
Why do you spend so much effort into writing such a good reply? These ignorant posters are here because they want to cry and will probably never understand the philosophy of Diablo. Diablo was and is a farming game. Nothing more. Play it or not.
You can also up vote the person who made a good post. No point in posting about it.
So you're saying A) ilvl 60 items are very good and you are clearing act3/4 with these items? And You're saying that with the tables right now, you're finding the best gear on a regular basis?
I want your luck, really. People are saying Diablo 3 isn't a substitute for a job, but if I would find the best gear on a regular basis, like you claim to do, I'd be a millionaire by now.
Also: I wouldn't mind if Blizzard removed a few possiblities of affixes on some items, no INT on Mighty weapons, no STR on Spirit Stones etc., that said, they shouldn't force the STR on mighty weapons and DEX on Spirit Stones either. Just remove the 1-2 affixes out of the 20+ affix pool and it's already a whole lot better, more importantly: less frustrating.
Wait, what? I think you totally did not comprehend my post. You guys just don't realize the damage that limiting ANYTHING in the item affix pools will seriously change the game play. Here, let me spell it out.
IF DROPS HAD ANY GUARANTEE, AT ALL, EVEN A MINOR ONE, ANY GUARANTEE AT ALL OF NOT BEING SHIT WHEN IT DROPPED THEN THE MARKET WILL BE FLOODED WITH VERY GOOD ITEMS.
When that happens, you can kiss gear progression good bye, there would be no point at all in playing a game based completely on item farming. If you stopped bad primary stats on class gear, that would be bad. If you limited the item levels that could drop by monster level, that would be bad. If you made it so your weapon that just dropped with really good stats always had good damage, that would be bad.
Getting bad items 99% of the time is the WHOLE FREAKING POINT of Diablo 3. Simply because when you DO get that awesome item 1% of the time, it feels epic and awesome and you feel good and you either get rich or become significantly more powerful because of it. I do not see how this is so hard to comprehend. Really guys, stop crying about bad items, they will not and should not go anywhere.
If you don't understand that concept by now, there really is no hope left for you, you really should find another game to play.
I have to mildly disagree with this. Just look at the set/legendary issue.
At some point everything can't be a total free-for-all. I can sift through pages upon pages upon pages of set/legendary items which are totally worthless, but which should have some value simply due to their rarity. Zunimassa's off-hand as an example generally has vastly inferior damage compared to other equal-iLevel WD off-hands, and when you add onto that the fact that sometimes you get a dexterity one or a strength one seeing a GREEN becomes a burden.
There is nothing wrong with some semblance of control of statistics. As it stands, our droprates have been tailored to the fact that a massive segment of our gear alternatives are nigh-unusable.
Am I saying that all items should have some kind of control? No.
But take this as an example. Are you throwing an all-caps shitfit because you can't get +xp from mobs on iLevel 61, 62, and 63 gear? Because in all my Inferno time I have never, ever, seen that affix on any gear that required level 60. Isn't that control? But, isn't that also a good form of control because that affix could never, ever, be useful to a level 60 character?
I'm not advocating lots of control here. I'm simply saying that a complete free-for-all with affixes has some severely negative consequences too. Imagine if you could roll an iLevel 61+ legendary/set with +xp from monsters. That's not "compelling" or "interesting" ... that's basically kicking a guy in the face after you got his hopes up.
As always, it's not a black-and-white world. The "answer" almost always lies in a shade of grey.
The affix and gear system in d3 is fine. It is also an improvement from d2.
D2:
1) No ilvl floor - Led to some really low level items dropping from high level monsters
2) No affix floor - Led to some really low level affix appearing on high ilvl gear
3) No TC brackets - Led to some good items being far rarer than intended and the idea that for item A, you have to farm mob B
D3:
1) ilvl brackets allow for 4% chance for the best gear to drop in act 1 (the easiest of the infernos). No longer do you have to kill hard monsters for the chance of the best gear.
2) NV5 allows for a guaranteed rare(2 and increased drop quantity if boss) and +75 MF/GF for absolutely free
3) MF affects rare affix level. This gives a huge incentive to work on that no switch MF set.
Yes you can get some bad rolls. You are also not guaranteed of an upgrade within a certain amount of time. But such is the grindy nature of diablo endgame.Its not meant to be fast. That's why inferno was originally intended to be an act 1 grind for ilvl61 items only. But after feedback, Blizzard relaxed their stance and let players go all the way to 63.
Its particularly hard to get an upgrade the more geared you are as well for obvious reasons. If you need to stack your odds you can join the UNID market as a buyer to increase your chances at rolling a good item. Alternatively you can sell UNIDs to acquire gold for guaranteed upgrades after saving up enough.
Its funny that ppl compare D2 to D3. As far as grinding and MF for gear, D2 was no challenge and gear came much faster and easier for most ppl. Most of the D2 players had multiple bots running 24/7 and finding all the best items daily. Also if they wernt using bots, they were all most certainly using map hack with teleport making there complete MF run of all acts taking less then 3 min. And for the ppl that will say they played D2 completely legit no maphack id have to say BS. The 2 games are nothing alike when it comes the the grind for gear. The whole point of the post was that it was stupid for Inferno to drop such low lvl gear, i never said it should be all ilvl63, i simply said sub 60, and after reading several post i do take that back but only to the point that it shouldnt be less then 57, lvl 52 items have no business in inferno just like ilvl63 items have no business in nightmare, Simply Said THE GEAR THAT DROPS SHOULD REFLECT THE MOB YOU ARE FIGHTING.....
I think majority of people don't really now what they don't like about D3. It's not a matter of time you take to get a upgrade. It's the lack of variety in item types and ways you have to get a upgrade. It's lack of different interations inside the game.
Loot is randomly generated and if EVERY drop from Inferno were guaranteed to be for lvl 60 then it would remove a lot of the farming we must do for loot. As has been said, this is Diablo, it is all about farming loot not about getting the best loot as quickly as possible with no effort like in WoW. Plus, I have made a shit ton of gold off those lower level rares because guess what! PEOPLE HAVE ALTS! OMG! Also, some of those lower level rares can roll good enough to be upgrades as well.
This is the issue I have with D3, I have no idea how many people agree and it really is a moot point seeing as how whether I'm in the majority or minority it has nothing to do with my enjoyment of a game. The drop rates and ilevels of drops for inferno are fine the way they are, given the opportunity I wouldn't change them, but the items themselves bore the hell out of me at this point...not only do I gain no excitement out of a rare dropping I also gain nothing out of it being a mundane upgrade. Maybe my tastes have changed since D2 but I was still enjoying that less than a year ago
So you're saying A) ilvl 60 items are very good and you are clearing act3/4 with these items? And You're saying that with the tables right now, you're finding the best gear on a regular basis?
I want your luck, really. People are saying Diablo 3 isn't a substitute for a job, but if I would find the best gear on a regular basis, like you claim to do, I'd be a millionaire by now.
Also: I wouldn't mind if Blizzard removed a few possiblities of affixes on some items, no INT on Mighty weapons, no STR on Spirit Stones etc., that said, they shouldn't force the STR on mighty weapons and DEX on Spirit Stones either. Just remove the 1-2 affixes out of the 20+ affix pool and it's already a whole lot better, more importantly: less frustrating.
So you're saying people would cry that they don't always get drops from elites, even though you just hypothetically upped the drop chance to 100%?
I agree with your point though, you can never please everyone at the same time. They could carefully alter a few changes in drops here and there, without altering the prices on the auction house.
I think that there are many vocal players who wouldn't be happy if Blizzard mailed them gold-plated Ferraris. To that extent, I think there are some minor tweaks to loot that could be made.
1) Condense all follower special items into one, the class-specific follower relics are fucking TERRIBLE and I really hate it.
2) As you said, make class-specific items unable to have the "wrong" primary stat (no int/dex on barb gear), but while still not forcing str on barb gear.
3) Somehow address the "damage" issue on weapons. I wish I had SS'd it, but I just got a *really* good 63 wand, except it had like 350 damage. I don't think that having such a wide damage range on weapons is actually helpful at this point.
Beyond that, I'm not really sure much needs to be done to loot unless you want to delve into the world of "those who shall never be pleased."
Very well said, I personally play at least 50% of the time with friends, so followers aren't that important to me (although the Scoundrel gives me a good 4-5k dps boost + 6k himself), but I see your point. Also, ilvl 61+ follower items couldn't hurt either, in my opinion.
people often say this, but i felt there was more to diablo 2 than gear farming, mainly pvp, low level dueling, UBERS. Also when i DID farm gear i didn't have to listen to any of the stupid storyline dialogue
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I thought I hated the little reward that came with playing Inferno. And I think people are more upset about its seeming lack of reward as well due to this being the only endgame in sight as of now.
I like though how I work hard in Act 2 and inch by inch I fight my way past some elites. And yeah it's expensive as hell if you keep dying. And so like others I just go farm Hell for gold. But I like working hard and earning my gold and then shopping on AH for some gear that may even be just slightly better than what I got but it's a step up regardless and then I gradually get better at Inferno. Like I still can't get past Act 2 for the life of me. But I like seeing how I'm gradually surviving things more and more. I really don't want Inferno to served to me all easily. This part of the game is where I want the grind to be. The key though is either playing by yourself with a well equipped follower, or joining up with people you know cause strangers like to wander off and dry hump tree stumps.
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Why is this a problem? It's twofold. Because the endgame right now IS rare items, and we also have item level to contend with, players are left with two options.
They can farm act 1 with high MF for the significantly rare chance of finding an ilvl 63 (or 62 jewelry) item with a reasonable chance of rolling 5-6 affixes
They can farm act 3 with little-no MF for the uncommon chance of finding an ilvl 63 with a very low chance of rolling 5-6 affixes
It's standard fare to accept that only those with gold values in the tens and hundreds of millions have the capacity to find quality farming gear that also has MF. Therefore, the vast majority of players are in a lose-lose situation. Either method offers you a staggeringly low chance of even acquiring a 5 or 6 affix, high ilvl rare. And this is even before getting into the huge variations on affixes that can spawn on those items.
Diablo 2's farming used to be like penny slots, if you tried enough times at single, quick runs you might not get much, but there was a pretty solid chance you would walk away with something pretty nice after a low to moderate amount of time invested. Diablo 3's farming is like buying a jackpot ticket. More expensive and the chance to get a return of sizable value is astronomically low.
I don't know what else needs to be said. This tier of affixes garbage has to be taken out, and each rare item needs an equal chance of rolling all its possible number of affixes. I would say increase the minimum # affixes on high level items to four, but that would probably be too much fun.
Wait, what? I think you totally did not comprehend my post. You guys just don't realize the damage that limiting ANYTHING in the item affix pools will seriously change the game play. Here, let me spell it out.
IF DROPS HAD ANY GUARANTEE, AT ALL, EVEN A MINOR ONE, ANY GUARANTEE AT ALL OF NOT BEING SHIT WHEN IT DROPPED THEN THE MARKET WILL BE FLOODED WITH VERY GOOD ITEMS.
When that happens, you can kiss gear progression good bye, there would be no point at all in playing a game based completely on item farming. If you stopped bad primary stats on class gear, that would be bad. If you limited the item levels that could drop by monster level, that would be bad. If you made it so your weapon that just dropped with really good stats always had good damage, that would be bad.
Getting bad items 99% of the time is the WHOLE FREAKING POINT of Diablo 3. Simply because when you DO get that awesome item 1% of the time, it feels epic and awesome and you feel good and you either get rich or become significantly more powerful because of it. I do not see how this is so hard to comprehend. Really guys, stop crying about bad items, they will not and should not go anywhere.
If you don't understand that concept by now, there really is no hope left for you, you really should find another game to play.
Yeah, people who don't like grinding will quit, specially if they just want to get "to the end of it already". Diablo is never about "getting there", it's about enjoying the journey.
We have people finishing Inferno with absolutely crappy stats and items, through sheer mechanics mastering. They're capable of dodging everything, position themselves correctly, deal damage whenever needed, and use their skillsets to the fullest potential.
We get it, you don't get good drops. Welcome to the boat everybody's in. No need to not enjoy the game just because of that, uh? Eventually a good item will drop and it will feel awesome
Bad drops aren't retarded. Having the AH already means it's really easy to check for gear upgrades (instead of grinding), and smart usage of it or good farming will always lead to guaranteed upgrades. We need the bad drops so the game doesn't become easy-peasy everyone with 300k dps.
And if you got a guaranteed upgrade, you would just kill bosses. Over, and over and over, until you had perfect items everywhere, and then you would do it some more. You would sell the new perfect items on the auction house, with everyone else, and sooner or later no one would buy anything because everyone has the best gear. Then everyone would stop playing, because they already have the best gear and they can't do anything with the drops that they keep getting, so why play?
Not EVERYTHING is junk. If 100% of the items were junk, then where are all the good items being sold for multiple millions of gold on the auction house, or for hundreds of dollars on the RMAH coming from?
I already covered this, just pointing out how many times the same thing has been said.
Terrible idea, see above. Flooding the market with really really good items is a bad idea.
See, you guys are like a broken record. And it's always a bad song playing.
I explained this in another post, but putting limits of any kind on item drops will inevitably lead to the best items being everywhere, and no point to playing the game.
I can't take it anymore, this thread, I already said it earlier, you guys kill me. You absolutely can not, ever, put any sort of guarantee on item drops being good, that would lead to very bad things. All right, I'm done now. Continue on, go slay some demons folks.
I do understand it, I most likely farmed more than you as well. Not to brag or anything, but just to prove that I am by no means giving up on this game, nor its weird affixes. I'm just saying that it couldn't hurt to alter the affixes a bit and/or increase the ilvl of some items.
To clarify this last sentence: follower tokens are maxed at ilvl 59, that should be at least 62. I myself am mostly a co-op player, but there are a lot of people out there who do love to play alone, it should be easier for them to get high dps followers (or more tanky ones).
You can also up vote the person who made a good post. No point in posting about it.
-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8CBbeSAjVo
-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hI4peeO3yzY
LOL -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcJ_XT3oWtY
That would be good, yes. These forums could use a better voting system.
I have to mildly disagree with this. Just look at the set/legendary issue.
At some point everything can't be a total free-for-all. I can sift through pages upon pages upon pages of set/legendary items which are totally worthless, but which should have some value simply due to their rarity. Zunimassa's off-hand as an example generally has vastly inferior damage compared to other equal-iLevel WD off-hands, and when you add onto that the fact that sometimes you get a dexterity one or a strength one seeing a GREEN becomes a burden.
There is nothing wrong with some semblance of control of statistics. As it stands, our droprates have been tailored to the fact that a massive segment of our gear alternatives are nigh-unusable.
Am I saying that all items should have some kind of control? No.
But take this as an example. Are you throwing an all-caps shitfit because you can't get +xp from mobs on iLevel 61, 62, and 63 gear? Because in all my Inferno time I have never, ever, seen that affix on any gear that required level 60. Isn't that control? But, isn't that also a good form of control because that affix could never, ever, be useful to a level 60 character?
I'm not advocating lots of control here. I'm simply saying that a complete free-for-all with affixes has some severely negative consequences too. Imagine if you could roll an iLevel 61+ legendary/set with +xp from monsters. That's not "compelling" or "interesting" ... that's basically kicking a guy in the face after you got his hopes up.
As always, it's not a black-and-white world. The "answer" almost always lies in a shade of grey.
D2:
1) No ilvl floor - Led to some really low level items dropping from high level monsters
2) No affix floor - Led to some really low level affix appearing on high ilvl gear
3) No TC brackets - Led to some good items being far rarer than intended and the idea that for item A, you have to farm mob B
D3:
1) ilvl brackets allow for 4% chance for the best gear to drop in act 1 (the easiest of the infernos). No longer do you have to kill hard monsters for the chance of the best gear.
2) NV5 allows for a guaranteed rare(2 and increased drop quantity if boss) and +75 MF/GF for absolutely free
3) MF affects rare affix level. This gives a huge incentive to work on that no switch MF set.
Yes you can get some bad rolls. You are also not guaranteed of an upgrade within a certain amount of time. But such is the grindy nature of diablo endgame.Its not meant to be fast. That's why inferno was originally intended to be an act 1 grind for ilvl61 items only. But after feedback, Blizzard relaxed their stance and let players go all the way to 63.
Its particularly hard to get an upgrade the more geared you are as well for obvious reasons. If you need to stack your odds you can join the UNID market as a buyer to increase your chances at rolling a good item. Alternatively you can sell UNIDs to acquire gold for guaranteed upgrades after saving up enough.