I'm specifically wondering what aspects of D3 make it more player skill based. I quit playing my monk in act 3 inferno (after the inferno nerf) because i was so bored. Bored that i was forced into builds with very little variance to them. For example every single monk inferno build i see requires monks to take 3 of their 4 defensive abilities (they only don't grab the 4th because it's terrible).
I thought this game wasn't going to have a tier armor based system like WoW. Which basically means that you can't kill x boss until your gear matches y status.
To me requiring people to have a certain amount of stats to kill a boss is disheartening. It means there's little room for player skill to make a large difference. Compared to d2 where boss mechanics and player's abilities were the key factor to killing a boss.
p.s. As a side note players were promised more end game content. I honestly feel likes there's less content. I'm not a huge pvp fan so the 1.1 patch is not going to add much for me.
Skill is the difference between someone like Kripparian, who cleared Infeno with a Barbarian geared with ~400k worth of gear, and the people who still can't clear it with millions invested into their Barbarian.
That's basically the simplest explanation. Skilled people can do with less what others can't do with more.
Skill is the difference between someone like Kripparian, who cleared Infeno with a Barbarian geared with ~400k worth of gear, and the people who still can't clear it with millions invested into their Barbarian.
That's basically the simplest explanation. Skilled people can do with less what others can't do with more.
Make a hardcore character and look at the AH the gear there is priced to sell at reasonable prices where the normal AH is flooded by kids that think items are worth way more then they actually are. Also there are a lot more people playing normal flooding the market with even more gold. So I find your argument hard to find valid.
I've watched some of kripp when he was streaming act 4 content. He spent about 400k during one session i watched just crafting armor trying to get upgrades.
Player skill? Wrong game, this one is all about gear.
Once you gear out your monk you can pretty much clear the game by holding down left mouse button.
Skill is the difference between someone like Kripparian, who cleared Infeno with a Barbarian geared with ~400k worth of gear, and the people who still can't clear it with millions invested into their Barbarian.
That's basically the simplest explanation. Skilled people can do with less what others can't do with more.
Make a hardcore character and look at the AH the gear there is priced to sell at reasonable prices where the normal AH is flooded by kids that think items are worth way more then they actually are. Also there are a lot more people playing normal flooding the market with even more gold. So I find your argument hard to find valid.
I don't see how that helps your argument. If the stuff on the normal AH is overpriced, doesn't that mean that getting a full set of gear for 400k and clearing Inferno with it is an even bigger accomplishment, since you get less for the same amount? By your logic you can get items cheaper on the hardcore AH, and therefore 400k goes a longer way.
Also, I don't see how he could get cheap prices from fans from the AH. It's not like he went searching for the items that people could put up there for him to find. Other players would probably snipe the items before he got to them anyway.
It's also totally possible that he was dishonest about how he got the items, but I've not known Kripp to be dishonest, so it's really a matter of how much you think he'd be willing to do something like that.
It's hardly a skill based game... Level up (extremely quick) make money, get better gear, done. Or if you want, continue to farm for better gear for hours on end, even after you've beaten inferno.... Not sure why, but I guess that is the replay value.
The real challenge lies in HC, which is the last hope I have for this game.
Skill is the difference between someone like Kripparian, who cleared Infeno with a Barbarian geared with ~400k worth of gear, and the people who still can't clear it with millions invested into their Barbarian.
That's basically the simplest explanation. Skilled people can do with less what others can't do with more.
Make a hardcore character and look at the AH the gear there is priced to sell at reasonable prices where the normal AH is flooded by kids that think items are worth way more then they actually are. Also there are a lot more people playing normal flooding the market with even more gold. So I find your argument hard to find valid.
I don't see how that helps your argument. If the stuff on the normal AH is overpriced, doesn't that mean that getting a full set of gear for 400k and clearing Inferno with it is an even bigger accomplishment, since you get less for the same amount? By your logic you can get items cheaper on the hardcore AH, and therefore 400k goes a longer way.
Also, I don't see how he could get cheap prices from fans from the AH. It's not like he went searching for the items that people could put up there for him to find. Other players would probably snipe the items before he got to them anyway.
It's also totally possible that he was dishonest about how he got the items, but I've not known Kripp to be dishonest, so it's really a matter of how much you think he'd be willing to do something like that.
Kripp plays on hardcore. Thats why i said what i did..... i assumed you knew that. Like you said since gear is cheaper on hardcore money goes farther, thats what my point was. Equivalent gear on normal would be alot more.
Kripp plays on hardcore. Thats why i said what i did..... i assumed you knew that. Like you said since gear is cheaper on hardcore money goes farther, thats what my point was. Equivalent gear on normal would be alot more.
True, but his Budget Barb (as he calls it) was done on Softcore. He died a few times while progressing through.
In a hack and slash game like Diablo, melee is more gear dependant than ranged. Also, player skill makes a bigger difference as ranged. As a melee, you have to get hit. Your skill comes into play when you avoid the "standing in fire" mechanics. As ranged, you try to avoid everything, you stutter-step, use mobility abilities and basically zap around the screen.
That's why ranged can clear given content earlier and is considered easier. You can "outskill" some mechanics even with basic reflexes and coordination, while as melee you cannot, you need the gear. When you get the gear, you outgear the mechanics, instead of "outskilling" them, which is less interesting in terms of gameplay.
It really required skill to finish Inferno in May in my opinion (except with the exploit builds). The gear availability on the AH was lacking, there were no guides or videos, the game was hard. With all the nerfs due to whiners on forums and the immense amounts of cheap gear on AH right now, a skilled player will find Diablo boring. There is just no point in getting upgrades, when you can breeze through content anyway and making millions of gold gets old pretty quick, especially with how AH is down and buggy all the time.
This guy makes good points as to the difference in skill between ranged and melee. Melee, after a point, can just stand there and take anything. Ranged, depending on their build, always have to be careful as to what's going on. Melee, as a drawback, are much more gear dependent.
Oh i assumed when you mentioned kripp you meant HC character. I know his softcore character was progressing basically through hours of grinding bosses and having his wizard friend tag along.
Oh i assumed when you mentioned kripp you meant HC character. I know his softcore character was progressing basically through hours of grinding bosses and having his wizard friend tag along.
His first Inferno clear (at least Diablo) was done solo. Then he got the idea to try and take a Barb through Hardcore. He did Hardcore Inferno with his friend Krippi, who was the Wizard he killed Inferno Diablo with.
The more recent thing he did was a "Budget Barb," showing that you can get through Inferno as a Barb without having to spend millions on gear. He spent around 400k (might have been a little more, but it was in the 400-thousands) on a whole set of gear and managed to complete Inferno with it on Softcore. Whether or not he replaced some of that with drops I'm not sure of, but he either bought or found all of his gear with zero outside help (if you believe he's being truthful).
Only noobs think their skills make a difference. This shouldn't even be discussed on diablofans. Seriously.
Why not?
Because it's an RNG game. That's like saying it took skill for me to win my last game of RISK.
You want skill? Let's see Krip beat me at BF3. (cough, he probably can't).
So go kill hardcore Inferno Diablo. Not being snide or anything, but you can't say that it takes no skill if you yourself can't do something someone else has done. If it was really skill-less and just RNG-based, anyone could kill anything eventually if they did it enough times. There are some things that people can't do without the required skill (or incredible gear to serve as a mistake cushion).
There is no skill in this game, its all luck. You get good gear, grats the game just got a whole lot easier.
Krip is a bad example of showing skill... he was completely geared out the ass and taking non risk farm methods such as resplendant chests and goblin farming.
Only noobs think their skills make a difference. This shouldn't even be discussed on diablofans. Seriously.
Why not?
Because it's an RNG game. That's like saying it took skill for me to win my last game of RISK.
You want skill? Let's see Krip beat me at BF3. (cough, he probably can't).
So go kill hardcore Inferno Diablo. Not being snide or anything, but you can't say that it takes no skill if you yourself can't do something someone else has done. If it was really skill-less and just RNG-based, anyone could kill anything eventually if they did it enough times. There are some things that people can't do without the required skill (or incredible gear to serve as a mistake cushion).
Okay so, let's see him do it with a wizard and one million gold.
He exploited cheesy game mechanics.
it requires skill, but it requires more luck than skill. A lot like poker.
Only noobs think their skills make a difference. This shouldn't even be discussed on diablofans. Seriously.
Why not?
Because it's an RNG game. That's like saying it took skill for me to win my last game of RISK.
You want skill? Let's see Krip beat me at BF3. (cough, he probably can't).
So what are you saying? Do you think that if you gave exactly the same gear to 100 different Demon Hunter players (say), they would all be able to progress exactly the same amount through the game? Is that *really* what you are saying?
I'm saying most people can walk on cake, yes. It isn't mutually exclusive for there to be people who are too stupid to know when to pop their escape skill or just too slow. In general, this game requires much less skill compared to a reflex based even-field competition like any shooter; or a strategy-based multitasking competition like StarCraft. I didn't say Krip was a bad player, as you seem to be butthurt enough to start white kniting, just that this particular game is very easy based on your luck with itemization.
Edit: putting your game progress in your signature like it's some super-special achievement makes you a massive tool. I can farm A2 also, and I've killed inferno Diablo also (pre 1.0.3). Nobody gives a fuck.
This is such a ridiculous topic of discussion. Of course gear AND skill make the game easier. They're both edges of the same sword.
And in my opinion, until you have THE perfectly rolled gear, you haven't finished the game. Killing diablo is not the end of content... Replay value comes from facing different combos of affixes and using different builds and gaining gold and money until you have no upgrades left.
Do you think that if you gave exactly the same gear to 100 different Demon Hunter players (say), they would all be able to progress exactly the same amount through the game?
It's a simple yes/no question. Can you give a simple yes/no answer?
"Exactly"? No, of course not, but that's a stupid question to begin with. Relatively? Yes, I do. This game does not require (or allow for) vast amounts of skill to progress, it is very much gear based progression.
There will always be outliers (i.e., idiots and really creative people who think up great builds), but the skill cap is low.
Do you think that if you gave exactly the same gear to 100 different Demon Hunter players (say), they would all be able to progress exactly the same amount through the game?
It's a simple yes/no question. Can you give a simple yes/no answer?
I don't think it's a yes/no question because my answer lies somewhere between.
I think that if you gave a random sampling of people the exact same character with the exact same gear (and stipulated that they could never change their gear) that you'd see similar progression from most of them. Say Act 2 farming, and mild Act 3 progress was your "average." I'm sure there would be people who were having issues finishing out Act 2 and probably people who were able to clear and farm Acts 3 & 4. But I'm pretty certain that you'd end up with what amounts to mostly a bell curve distribution... but the standard deviation would be pretty low.
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I thought this game wasn't going to have a tier armor based system like WoW. Which basically means that you can't kill x boss until your gear matches y status.
To me requiring people to have a certain amount of stats to kill a boss is disheartening. It means there's little room for player skill to make a large difference. Compared to d2 where boss mechanics and player's abilities were the key factor to killing a boss.
p.s. As a side note players were promised more end game content. I honestly feel likes there's less content. I'm not a huge pvp fan so the 1.1 patch is not going to add much for me.
That's basically the simplest explanation. Skilled people can do with less what others can't do with more.
Make a hardcore character and look at the AH the gear there is priced to sell at reasonable prices where the normal AH is flooded by kids that think items are worth way more then they actually are. Also there are a lot more people playing normal flooding the market with even more gold. So I find your argument hard to find valid.
Once you gear out your monk you can pretty much clear the game by holding down left mouse button.
Also, I don't see how he could get cheap prices from fans from the AH. It's not like he went searching for the items that people could put up there for him to find. Other players would probably snipe the items before he got to them anyway.
It's also totally possible that he was dishonest about how he got the items, but I've not known Kripp to be dishonest, so it's really a matter of how much you think he'd be willing to do something like that.
The real challenge lies in HC, which is the last hope I have for this game.
Kripp plays on hardcore. Thats why i said what i did..... i assumed you knew that. Like you said since gear is cheaper on hardcore money goes farther, thats what my point was. Equivalent gear on normal would be alot more.
This guy makes good points as to the difference in skill between ranged and melee. Melee, after a point, can just stand there and take anything. Ranged, depending on their build, always have to be careful as to what's going on. Melee, as a drawback, are much more gear dependent.
The more recent thing he did was a "Budget Barb," showing that you can get through Inferno as a Barb without having to spend millions on gear. He spent around 400k (might have been a little more, but it was in the 400-thousands) on a whole set of gear and managed to complete Inferno with it on Softcore. Whether or not he replaced some of that with drops I'm not sure of, but he either bought or found all of his gear with zero outside help (if you believe he's being truthful).
Thus concludes Kripparian History 101.
Why not?
Because it's an RNG game. That's like saying it took skill for me to win my last game of RISK.
You want skill? Let's see Krip beat me at BF3. (cough, he probably can't).
Krip is a bad example of showing skill... he was completely geared out the ass and taking non risk farm methods such as resplendant chests and goblin farming.
Okay so, let's see him do it with a wizard and one million gold.
He exploited cheesy game mechanics.
it requires skill, but it requires more luck than skill. A lot like poker.
I'm saying most people can walk on cake, yes. It isn't mutually exclusive for there to be people who are too stupid to know when to pop their escape skill or just too slow. In general, this game requires much less skill compared to a reflex based even-field competition like any shooter; or a strategy-based multitasking competition like StarCraft. I didn't say Krip was a bad player, as you seem to be butthurt enough to start white kniting, just that this particular game is very easy based on your luck with itemization.
Edit: putting your game progress in your signature like it's some super-special achievement makes you a massive tool. I can farm A2 also, and I've killed inferno Diablo also (pre 1.0.3). Nobody gives a fuck.
And in my opinion, until you have THE perfectly rolled gear, you haven't finished the game. Killing diablo is not the end of content... Replay value comes from facing different combos of affixes and using different builds and gaining gold and money until you have no upgrades left.
"Exactly"? No, of course not, but that's a stupid question to begin with. Relatively? Yes, I do. This game does not require (or allow for) vast amounts of skill to progress, it is very much gear based progression.
There will always be outliers (i.e., idiots and really creative people who think up great builds), but the skill cap is low.
I don't think it's a yes/no question because my answer lies somewhere between.
I think that if you gave a random sampling of people the exact same character with the exact same gear (and stipulated that they could never change their gear) that you'd see similar progression from most of them. Say Act 2 farming, and mild Act 3 progress was your "average." I'm sure there would be people who were having issues finishing out Act 2 and probably people who were able to clear and farm Acts 3 & 4. But I'm pretty certain that you'd end up with what amounts to mostly a bell curve distribution... but the standard deviation would be pretty low.