i am not an elitist (whatever that means). all your reasons not playing hardcore is valid. but even though sometimes it sucks, i don't whine whenever i die because of lag or hotfix or whatever. it is part of the game. if i die because of lag, it means that i wasn't careful enough and pop my diamond skin right before i die. or i don't have enough HP that i would get 1-shotted. or i rely so much on my passives that saves my life instead of relying on gear and planning. if i die because of disconnection, well still part of the game, just hope it doesn't happen again.
you see, HC players just have a different approach to the game, also reflects in real life. i don't whine about small stuff like this. if something bothers me so much, the best that i could do is post a suggestion through official channels or just play around it. the same thing in real life, i don't whine because gas prices are way too high, i just ride my bike to work every once in a while (only costs me a few hours of not playing diablo3).
i'm not sure that people who where about to down Diablo in Inferno HC and got killed because of hotfixes/wrong tooltips that they never knew was happening think that it's ''part of the game'' game is learn how to play your class what your skill does and how to use them effectively to not die, not play and hope that they won't make a skill you,re using practically unusable (boon of protection says hi) without even telling you before hand, or hope you won't loose all of you progress because someone decided that move have to be reworked and thus ruining your build (force armor). also you can't play with lag since it constently changes, for Diamond Skin it's alright it lasts 6 sec, but for SS, if you're using it too early because of lag, and there is not a huge amount of lag the time you play it may kill you, things that short needs to be precise, lag takes out any precision you can have...
and disconnect I don't see how you can't be infuriated by loosing a character you put a lot of time into simply because your router had a problem and your network was suddenly disconnected, when playing HC you need to be perfectly sure everything is in control, sadly with something always online there is no such thing as controlling everything, even if youre router is perfectly fine someone could hack into blizzard's server and they could have to take them down without notice to prevent any damage, and bang you just lost 60 hours of your life, if that's your idea of fun fine for you, but it's definitly not mine... so please stop going around telling everyone ''stop whining and play HC''
HC isn't about investing time to have a powerful character, it is about investing time to become the perfect player. Loosing a level 60 character is just part of the journey =)
And if you're dying so fast and so many times in the same pack you're doing it wrong. Gearing 100% for glass cannon have it's consequencies, like having no chance to kill a soul lasher and having very low chances against vortexes/mortars.
if u are getting 30 sec respawn timers, and dont want to skip the pack then take some time to rest and to figure a new strategy, even if its jailer+mortar+invulnerable minions+fast you are either not ready to face that kind of combo because u are doing something wrong or not geared enough.
all i can is, i've died only twice. how about you adkhean? but eventhough you never lost your character, do you think you can match up with me if ever it was possible to pvp SC vs HC? so what if i wasted hours of my life? and by you playing in SC means that you never wasted hours in your life? nice logic there. everyone who plays HC knows that dying is inevitable, IT WILL HAPPEN, no matter how or when or why. it is part of deciding to play HC. if someone feels that nah, i can't take it if i die because of lag, then the answer is, don't play HC. simple! just like u. i'm not trying to convert you by saying go play HC. i was merely saying that if you don't like timers, then go play HC. simple! now you don't like HC and timers, then go play tetris. effin simple! nerds like you have so much problems in life. just deal with it brah! everything is easy once you know that you're merely an ant. so telling the gods at blizzard that the game is such bs because of timers, guess what, they think you're just a softcore whiner who knows nothing about the game.
I agree when it comes to world wide deaths, but why do we need to have res timer while fighting bosses when the encounter is "instanced" and prevents you from exploiting res mechanics?
It would make sense if the timer affected player cast resurrects.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The first three were dead before they hit the ground. The others weren't so lucky."
is plain stupid, how is it ''fun'' to wait for 30+ seconds to rez? they need to change this because this isn't WoW... i'm getting annoyed as hell when I die multiple times agains't a elite and have to wait to continue playing, they could have though of something else to punish death, not something that makes me wanna throw my computer away...
maybe it's just me but when I die I want to be where i was ASAP to have my revenge and kill the mobs that killed me, not to wait 30+ seconds before doign so..., I understand the ''need'' in WoW but it's not here in Diablo no one is gonna PK you...
Yeah, well, that's the point now isn't it? If you are waiting 30+ seconds over and over again it means that you simply aren't good and/or geared enough for the content you are facing. Removing the timer would mean that you could easily kite a pack back to your spawn point, whittling down their HP between deaths until they are dead. This is exactly why there is a timer to begin with.
It's not "stupid", it's there to keep players like you from killing packs they shouldn't be able to kill. And no, 30+ seconds is not "3-4 deaths", it's far more than that.
I suspect your line of reasoning is correct, that it eliminates players cheesing through enemies. Occassionally though, there are mobs that, frankly, are unfair in certain situations, as we've all come across. Generally, like the OP, I prefer to kill everything I encounter, and so I'm willing to ram my head against a wall trying to kill those mobs, but I would like to make my attempts at doing so faster.
Additionally, remaking a game to avoid an elite pack is almost as tacky as clearing an elite mob through respawn attrition, though it must be done in some cases (i.e. fast spiders in caves as a DH). It's also unfortunate to clear a stack of Nephalem Valor due to one pack you can't avoid, which would happen if the game was remade (again, I'm thinking caves/ tight spaces). Thus, I don't necessarily see a situation in which a player acquires a large respawn cooldown as necessarily being a direct result of a lack of gear or lack of skill (though it may be).
All that said, I think the timer is reasonable, but there really is no need for anything longer than a 10 second respawn. Hell, even after the 8 (maybe 7?) second respawn, champion packs regain all there health anyways. What purpose does a 20+ second respawn have?
Self-revive cool downs are a dumb way to try to stop players from cheesing their way through pack after pack in an area or difficulty they aren't ready for. It's a dumb way because you buy a game to play it, not to stare at the screen waiting to play it. The "smart" way to stop the behavior imho would be to fully heal any mobs still alive as well as revive any mobs from packs with at least 1 member still alive and return all mobs to their original spawn point. Of course, this would actually be a lot harder since you'd no longer be able to hide a pack in the corner, die and bypass them or kill one member of a pack per death.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
...and if you disagree with me, you're probably <insert random ad hominem attack here>.
is plain stupid, how is it ''fun'' to wait for 30+ seconds to rez? they need to change this because this isn't WoW... i'm getting annoyed as hell when I die multiple times agains't a elite and have to wait to continue playing, they could have though of something else to punish death, not something that makes me wanna throw my computer away...
maybe it's just me but when I die I want to be where i was ASAP to have my revenge and kill the mobs that killed me, not to wait 30+ seconds before doign so..., I understand the ''need'' in WoW but it's not here in Diablo no one is gonna PK you...
Yeah, well, that's the point now isn't it? If you are waiting 30+ seconds over and over again it means that you simply aren't good and/or geared enough for the content you are facing. Removing the timer would mean that you could easily kite a pack back to your spawn point, whittling down their HP between deaths until they are dead. This is exactly why there is a timer to begin with.
It's not "stupid", it's there to keep players like you from killing packs they shouldn't be able to kill. And no, 30+ seconds is not "3-4 deaths", it's far more than that.
I suspect your line of reasoning is correct, that it eliminates players cheesing through enemies. Occassionally though, there are mobs that, frankly, are unfair in certain situations, as we've all come across. Generally, like the OP, I prefer to kill everything I encounter, and so I'm willing to ram my head against a wall trying to kill those mobs, but I would like to make my attempts at doing so faster.
Additionally, remaking a game to avoid an elite pack is almost as tacky as clearing an elite mob through respawn attrition, though it must be done in some cases (i.e. fast spiders in caves as a DH). It's also unfortunate to clear a stack of Nephalem Valor due to one pack you can't avoid, which would happen if the game was remade (again, I'm thinking caves/ tight spaces). Thus, I don't necessarily see a situation in which a player acquires a large respawn cooldown as necessarily being a direct result of a lack of gear or lack of skill (though it may be).
All that said, I think the timer is reasonable, but there really is no need for anything longer than a 10 second respawn. Hell, even after the 8 (maybe 7?) second respawn, champion packs regain all there health anyways. What purpose does a 20+ second respawn have?
this is what I meant, I fell that timers are an easy way to ''punish'' death even though it only makes us angry...
Self-revive cool downs are a dumb way to try to stop players from cheesing their way through pack after pack in an area or difficulty they aren't ready for. It's a dumb way because you buy a game to play it, not to stare at the screen waiting to play it. The "smart" way to stop the behavior imho would be to fully heal any mobs still alive as well as revive any mobs from packs with at least 1 member still alive and return all mobs to their original spawn point. Of course, this would actually be a lot harder since you'd no longer be able to hide a pack in the corner, die and bypass them or kill one member of a pack per death.
so you,re basically asking for it to bea carbon copy of wow?
Anyone actually arguing that the res-timer works well with the state inferno is currently in, obviously haven't played demon hunter. What you do not understand, is that getting enough gear to not simply get oneshotted by EVERYTHING requires many, many millions of gold, and also that you sacrifice dps. Anyone sane knows that doing this only to be able to take 2 hits instead of 1 is not worth it, because when ur dicipline reaches 0 you are dead 100% anyways.
Now, to my point. As a demon hunter you basically die alot. There is NO FUN in being dead 90% of the time when fighting a champion pack, not because you are bad, not because you have bad gear, but because inferno is designed to consistently one-hit rape you with barely visible projectiles or simply the air blowing in your face. Having to wait 30 seconds before getting utterly destroyed by another toothpick-spear flying through the corner of a wall is not fun or challenging at all, it's just retarded.
this at least DH dosen,t have a CD on defensive skills, but every wizard dies once Teleport/Diamond Skin is on cooldown.
Reduce a timer is fine and all, but please remember this mode was created for only a few people to master and or beat; unfortunately because of said concept the overall testing of inferno was very poor. Patches soon to come, roll another toon.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
An escalating respawn timer is a clear indicator that you're doing something wrong, or you aren't geared enough for what you're trying to accomplish.
It's better than letting you insta-respawn, and blowing through 25k gold in repairs first.
if I wan't to blow up 25k in repairs in 5 minutes that's my problem no? and there's escalating and escalating, first 3 seconds then 8 then 15 then 30 then 45...
That could be your choice, but Blizzard made the choice that the vast majority of players would not find that to be fun or compelling gameplay, along with the fact that you could cheese your way through packs using the previously mentioned methods.
An escalating respawn timer is a clear indicator that you're doing something wrong, or you aren't geared enough for what you're trying to accomplish.
It's better than letting you insta-respawn, and blowing through 25k gold in repairs first.
if I wan't to blow up 25k in repairs in 5 minutes that's my problem no? and there's escalating and escalating, first 3 seconds then 8 then 15 then 30 then 45...
That could be your choice, but Blizzard made the choice that the vast majority of players would not find that to be fun or compelling gameplay, along with the fact that you could cheese your way through packs using the previously mentioned methods.
because staring at a screen doing nothing for 30-45 seconds is ''compelling gameplay''?
Consequences make for meaningful choices and motivation.
Be glad you don't drop all the gear you had equipped every time you die, get stuck back in town, and become forced to run back naked to retrieve your gear.
Or be forced to lose XP, which could drop you down a level. LOL Classic EQ FTW!
Games are so much easier nowadays.
There's a difference between hard and just plain infuriating your player base intentionally (if it doesn't bother most people, then you have to wonder why), totally made you think about wasting your time on video games though, otherwise, these days it's not good business.
OT: I have to agree, there's no solid argument as to why there is a cooldown on resurrecting, unless there's a technical reason and not a 'meaningful' one that some here seem to think it is.... it's a game, not a life altering decision.
Self-revive cool downs are a dumb way to try to stop players from cheesing their way through pack after pack in an area or difficulty they aren't ready for. It's a dumb way because you buy a game to play it, not to stare at the screen waiting to play it. The "smart" way to stop the behavior imho would be to fully heal any mobs still alive as well as revive any mobs from packs with at least 1 member still alive and return all mobs to their original spawn point. Of course, this would actually be a lot harder since you'd no longer be able to hide a pack in the corner, die and bypass them or kill one member of a pack per death.
so you,re basically asking for it to bea carbon copy of wow?
Well, I guess that depends. If you asking if I think the game would benefit from being more like WoW in general, my answer would be no since I actually hated almost every moment I played WoW which is why I quit. If you're just insinuating that any idea which was in WoW, even if it would be perfect for D3, should be excluded on that basis, then I disagree. And I'm not saying that my notion is perfect either -- just that it's infinitely better than allowing people to kill-a-mob-die-repeat their way through your whole game and/or forcing players to sit idly staring at the screen.
If you're genuinely asking whether I meant that it should work the way WoW works, then the answer is kind of. I guess it'd work like my limited understanding of how WoW raid boss fights reset (which is that it's exactly how D3 boss fights reset), though I was never a raider and I have no idea whether that's correct or not. I wouldn't want it to work like general mobs out in the world with respawn timers and such as I don't even like mobs respawning on top of me in MMO's, let alone in a game for 1-4 people.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
...and if you disagree with me, you're probably <insert random ad hominem attack here>.
anyway made this topic after i died I don't know how many times agains't a pack in inferno and had to wait like 40 sc each times just to die again in 2 seconds, so i was kinda annoyed the vast majority of the time was spent staring at a screen doing nothing, I do understand they did this to give mobs time to heal so we're not just killing them slowly but surely, but in that case they should have just made them instantly regain all their HP once everyone in the group is dead (but dead stays dead) and delete the damn timer, the result would be the same without having t wait 40 seconds raging inside without being able to liberate all that angers on mobs...
Not true, if you're with a friend, you could suicide run while the other just keeps the pack alive, leaving a glass cannon to burn them, and have someone else kite.
I'm fine with a death timer, if you die 5+ times to an elite pack you should probably reconsider how you're approaching it.
Not true, if you're with a friend, you could suicide run while the other just keeps the pack alive, leaving a glass cannon to burn them, and have someone else kite.
I'm fine with a death timer, if you die 5+ times to an elite pack you should probably reconsider how you're approaching it.
maybe, but still having to wait 40 seconds doing nothing is just plain infuriating and is NEVER gonna be a smart design choice it is IMO an easy solution to discourage deaths, D2 was better on this IMO, Death was terrible every time I died I had that ''oh crap now how to retrieve my corpse'' and now it's more like ''ahh died again, look's like i'll make myself a coffee i'll have time to finish it before being able to play again''
I think a better solution would be to tether the mobs back to their starting point after they kill you. This would remove the abuse of people graveyard rushing elites and would remove the annoying and unnecessary death cooldown. I don't like working on a boss and having to wait on the cooldown.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
i'm not sure that people who where about to down Diablo in Inferno HC and got killed because of hotfixes/wrong tooltips that they never knew was happening think that it's ''part of the game'' game is learn how to play your class what your skill does and how to use them effectively to not die, not play and hope that they won't make a skill you,re using practically unusable (boon of protection says hi) without even telling you before hand, or hope you won't loose all of you progress because someone decided that move have to be reworked and thus ruining your build (force armor). also you can't play with lag since it constently changes, for Diamond Skin it's alright it lasts 6 sec, but for SS, if you're using it too early because of lag, and there is not a huge amount of lag the time you play it may kill you, things that short needs to be precise, lag takes out any precision you can have...
and disconnect I don't see how you can't be infuriated by loosing a character you put a lot of time into simply because your router had a problem and your network was suddenly disconnected, when playing HC you need to be perfectly sure everything is in control, sadly with something always online there is no such thing as controlling everything, even if youre router is perfectly fine someone could hack into blizzard's server and they could have to take them down without notice to prevent any damage, and bang you just lost 60 hours of your life, if that's your idea of fun fine for you, but it's definitly not mine... so please stop going around telling everyone ''stop whining and play HC''
And if you're dying so fast and so many times in the same pack you're doing it wrong. Gearing 100% for glass cannon have it's consequencies, like having no chance to kill a soul lasher and having very low chances against vortexes/mortars.
It would make sense if the timer affected player cast resurrects.
I suspect your line of reasoning is correct, that it eliminates players cheesing through enemies. Occassionally though, there are mobs that, frankly, are unfair in certain situations, as we've all come across. Generally, like the OP, I prefer to kill everything I encounter, and so I'm willing to ram my head against a wall trying to kill those mobs, but I would like to make my attempts at doing so faster.
Additionally, remaking a game to avoid an elite pack is almost as tacky as clearing an elite mob through respawn attrition, though it must be done in some cases (i.e. fast spiders in caves as a DH). It's also unfortunate to clear a stack of Nephalem Valor due to one pack you can't avoid, which would happen if the game was remade (again, I'm thinking caves/ tight spaces). Thus, I don't necessarily see a situation in which a player acquires a large respawn cooldown as necessarily being a direct result of a lack of gear or lack of skill (though it may be).
All that said, I think the timer is reasonable, but there really is no need for anything longer than a 10 second respawn. Hell, even after the 8 (maybe 7?) second respawn, champion packs regain all there health anyways. What purpose does a 20+ second respawn have?
this is what I meant, I fell that timers are an easy way to ''punish'' death even though it only makes us angry...
so you,re basically asking for it to bea carbon copy of wow?
this at least DH dosen,t have a CD on defensive skills, but every wizard dies once Teleport/Diamond Skin is on cooldown.
I'll solve myself the trouble of answering this, read the whole topic I already answered to that
That could be your choice, but Blizzard made the choice that the vast majority of players would not find that to be fun or compelling gameplay, along with the fact that you could cheese your way through packs using the previously mentioned methods.
because staring at a screen doing nothing for 30-45 seconds is ''compelling gameplay''?
There's a difference between hard and just plain infuriating your player base intentionally (if it doesn't bother most people, then you have to wonder why), totally made you think about wasting your time on video games though, otherwise, these days it's not good business.
OT: I have to agree, there's no solid argument as to why there is a cooldown on resurrecting, unless there's a technical reason and not a 'meaningful' one that some here seem to think it is.... it's a game, not a life altering decision.
Well, I guess that depends. If you asking if I think the game would benefit from being more like WoW in general, my answer would be no since I actually hated almost every moment I played WoW which is why I quit. If you're just insinuating that any idea which was in WoW, even if it would be perfect for D3, should be excluded on that basis, then I disagree. And I'm not saying that my notion is perfect either -- just that it's infinitely better than allowing people to kill-a-mob-die-repeat their way through your whole game and/or forcing players to sit idly staring at the screen.
If you're genuinely asking whether I meant that it should work the way WoW works, then the answer is kind of. I guess it'd work like my limited understanding of how WoW raid boss fights reset (which is that it's exactly how D3 boss fights reset), though I was never a raider and I have no idea whether that's correct or not. I wouldn't want it to work like general mobs out in the world with respawn timers and such as I don't even like mobs respawning on top of me in MMO's, let alone in a game for 1-4 people.
I'm fine with a death timer, if you die 5+ times to an elite pack you should probably reconsider how you're approaching it.
maybe, but still having to wait 40 seconds doing nothing is just plain infuriating and is NEVER gonna be a smart design choice it is IMO an easy solution to discourage deaths, D2 was better on this IMO, Death was terrible every time I died I had that ''oh crap now how to retrieve my corpse'' and now it's more like ''ahh died again, look's like i'll make myself a coffee i'll have time to finish it before being able to play again''