Drop the sheep attitude. Don't expect a serious attitude. Its a big deal, and your only response is shut up QQ. You used QQ. I don't give a damn about you if you use QQ.
No really, trust me, you'll hear me again, and again, and again, and again.
Your quote is a bit excessive, the internet much more accessible than it used to be. And you could easily argue the opposite, that the people who modded, cracked and hacked games are the ones that ultimately made companies need to include things like DRM and Online-Only just to provide a fun and hack free environment. Personally games like D1 and D2, despite being awesome, were ultimately ruined in the long run because of 'the gaming community'.
Your quote is a bit excessive, the internet much more accessible than it used to be. And you could easily argue the opposite, that the people who modded, cracked and hacked games are the ones that ultimately made companies need to include things like DRM and Online-Only just to provide a fun and hack free environment. Personally games like D1 and D2, despite being awesome, were ultimately ruined in the long run because of 'the gaming community'.
I'm going to flame you to hell if I try to answer you in any serious manner. You're telling me you put the blame of this on the gaming communities and all the amazing things they have done, all the progress it has allowed. You have no damn clue what you're attacking.
The thing that bothers me is that Diablo has never been about skill locking. If you wanted you could easily swap skills to fit the situation at hand. The addition of having to go back to town or a cooldown, to me, would just be an annoyance. If I get a new skill I want to be able to test it out and see if it works with my setup, and if it doesn't I want to be able to swap back right then and there. By forcing me to return to town you are effectively removing me from combat, which they have said their main goal is "stay in combat". I'm COMPLETELY against any restriction on skill swapping EXCEPT in PVP. In PVP the skills you go in with, should be the skills you play with.
Except you were effectively locked in on skills in an even more extreme way - basically past a certain point you had decided which skills you were going to use forever - at least this new system affords you the opportunity to change your build significantly without rolling a new character. To use D2 skills as an example- I can now switch from being a frozen orb sorc to a meteor sorc - in the past you were one or the other with no hope of EVER making a change. A trip to town to make that change doesnt seem like that much to ask to radically alter the way your char plays.
It's been suggested in this thread, but I like the idea of restrictions getting more stringent as you move up in difficulty levels.
During normal difficulty, since you'll frequently be leveling up and also not have all your active skill slots available, I think freely swapping skills makes sense.
Maybe during nightmare, skills are freely swappable in town, and in the field with restriction (be that a cast time, or a not in combat related mechanic). This is mostly because I'm not sure we'll hit level 30 before heading into nightmare, and players are probably still learning how they want to play, experimenting with runes and such.
During Hell and Inferno, town only.
PvP, only before the battle starts. Maybe after respawns before you leave your spawn zone (this is like picking a different class/loadout in an FPS game).
This way there's plenty of room for experimentation while leveling up, but when you get serious, you have to balance a build that will work in most situations.
As far as what in field restrictions could look like, I like the idea of it being based on no damage dealt or received for 10 seconds. Anything longer than 10 seconds means I could just go back to town and get it done more quickly. I don't like a cast time on swapping skills because it complicates the interface. Hitting a button to lock in your skills is an extra click that isn't really needed.
Or maybe even just no skills used for 10 seconds. Use a skill, your active skill pane is locked for 10 seconds.
Wizards can go a long time without being hit, while say a monk or barb who are always in melee will always get hit. So a wizard, and maybe demon hunter could still swap out during combat, which is exactly what they do not want.
Its an interesting idea, but it seems to favor certain classes.
I have an alternative idea though, and its quite simple.
Just put a 5-10-15 second cast on switching skills, maybe just outside of town, or maybe anywhere.
You didn't read very carefully. I suggested changing from "As long as you have not taken damage" to "As long as you have not dealt damage"
I thought the bold text would have been clear enough but apparently not =/
Wizards can go a long time without being hit, while say a monk or barb who are always in melee will always get hit. So a wizard, and maybe demon hunter could still swap out during combat, which is exactly what they do not want.
Its an interesting idea, but it seems to favor certain classes.
I have an alternative idea though, and its quite simple.
Just put a 5-10-15 second cast on switching skills, maybe just outside of town, or maybe anywhere.
You didn't read very carefully. I suggested changing from "As long as you have not taken damage" to "As long as you have not dealt damage"
I thought the bold text would have been clear enough but apparently not =/
Ohh that is totally my fault, I read the skill and my brain must of just substituted in what I thought you would say, rather than what you said.
I + your idea,
Anyways, here is mine,
I have an alternative idea though, and its quite simple.
Just put a 5-10-15 second cast on switching skills, maybe just outside of town, or maybe anywhere.
You cant move, so switching during combat would be very difficult at best.
And if someone really wants to take that risk, I do not see a problem with it.
Another idea, that could go in conjunction with this idea is to not allow runes in unused skills. And maybe, also adding a cast time to place runes into skills.
So, at higher levels, even if you could switch a skill during combat, it would be a much weaker version of the skill. Of course, you would have to do something about the unattuned rune #'s, as this would just make it worse.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
The thing that bothers me is that Diablo has never been about skill locking. If you wanted you could easily swap skills to fit the situation at hand. The addition of having to go back to town or a cooldown, to me, would just be an annoyance. If I get a new skill I want to be able to test it out and see if it works with my setup, and if it doesn't I want to be able to swap back right then and there. By forcing me to return to town you are effectively removing me from combat, which they have said their main goal is "stay in combat". I'm COMPLETELY against any restriction on skill swapping EXCEPT in PVP. In PVP the skills you go in with, should be the skills you play with.
Except you were effectively locked in on skills in an even more extreme way - basically past a certain point you had decided which skills you were going to use forever - at least this new system affords you the opportunity to change your build significantly without rolling a new character. To use D2 skills as an example- I can now switch from being a frozen orb sorc to a meteor sorc - in the past you were one or the other with no hope of EVER making a change. A trip to town to make that change doesnt seem like that much to ask to radically alter the way your char plays.
I'm not saying this is a radical change, but to me it would be a pretty big annoyance that could occur many times throughout my playthrough. Having to go all the way back to town to change a skill is effectively removing me from progression, would cause aggravation, and snap me out of suspension of belief. While I would be fine with an out of combat cooldown over a return to town I still would rather neither.
We have no idea how the unattuned system is going to work.
That fills me with confidence. I know well enough not to take Bashioks posts at face value but that really makes me think Q2 of 2012 is optimistic. Their progress seems slow, even by Bliz standards...or maybe that is just the outward appearance. Ah well, I'll just have to stop following this game save for the brief blizzcon info that we may get. July 2012 anyone?
After reading this thread, there are several conversations going on, three of which interest me:
1) Unattuned runes vs. attuned runes. I'm with the guy who wants both to drop. I think it would be much more interesting.
2) Skill swapping: All this focus on timers, town, etc.. is too much imo. How about: As long as there are no enemies on screen, you can swap skills. I might also add that in the Diablo world, you can usually die in just a couple of hits. Thus, they don't even need to put a limiter on skill swapping as long as the interface is cumbersome enough. If you know you don't have time to swap skills while defending yourself, then you won't do it. Lastly, your items will dictate your skills a heck of a lot more than the WoW crowd is used to. As a result, it's never going to be as simple as swap skill x for skill y. Instead, you're really looking at swap skill x and y for skills p and q, swap helms, change from 2H sword to 1H sword with shield, change boots, replace the mana pots in my belt with healing pots.
3) Blizzard does indeed sound like they are still making major design decisions about the game at this very late stage. It's a lack of vision and leadership in their design team that allows for this sort of "design creep." Things like changing all abilities to be % of weapon damage, reworking Hatred / Discipline functionality, and the Unattuned runestones are all major changes to very fundamental design elements of the game. I'll be shocked if we see this game before march.
We have no idea how the unattuned system is going to work.
That fills me with confidence. I know well enough not to take Bashioks posts at face value but that really makes me think Q2 of 2012 is optimistic. Their progress seems slow, even by Bliz standards...or maybe that is just the outward appearance. Ah well, I'll just have to stop following this game save for the brief blizzcon info that we may get. July 2012 anyone?
Q2 2012?!? That is way too late.
Coming up with a rune system idea and implementing it should be rather easy.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
We have no idea how the unattuned system is going to work.
That fills me with confidence. I know well enough not to take Bashioks posts at face value but that really makes me think Q2 of 2012 is optimistic. Their progress seems slow, even by Bliz standards...or maybe that is just the outward appearance. Ah well, I'll just have to stop following this game save for the brief blizzcon info that we may get. July 2012 anyone?
Q2 2012?!? That is way too late.
Coming up with a rune system idea and implementing it should be rather easy.
I agree, even though this seems to be a "big" part of the game in all reality it's a small, small part. We still have 3 months left in 2011, that's 90 days of progress ahead. Then Q1 is still a few months so if it takes a month or 2 that's even longer. They said that they are on the home stretch, so that means they are feeling confident with most of the game mechanics they have set.
We need some sort of penalty for swapping skills.How about putting this debuff on character
that swaps his skills out of town:
All damage is decreased by 50% percent for 30 sec,stacks up to 5 times.
And in addition we can make each skill swap cost 50% of character resource.
(for example 50% mana for witch doctor)
A huge dmg nerf would make your character unplayable for 30 seconds.
All they want to do is stop people from doing it during combat.
And the resource idea would only penalize the WD, maybe.
its only general idea on how to prevent player
of taking immediate advantage of skill swapping,
that can be easily implemented unlike
incombat/out of combat system ,which can be ideal solution
but as some bliz posted takes time to implement.
So it can be 30% damage for 10sec as well.
resource penalty also can be adjusted.
I'm surpised that there is so much ressistanec to skill swapping being restricted to town. This game is an action RPG. In most RPGs you have to decide what skills to learn and specialize. If everyone has full access to all skills, all the time, then characters of the same class are all the same, except for equipment. That is boring.
Generally, in action RPGs, you select the skills you want as you progress, and you get used to using them together. Your skill choices end up effecting your playstyle and defining your role. Diablo III with town swapping is kind of like that, except with the option to go back to town and rethink your skills and fine tune your strategy. In most simliar games, if you aren't satisfied with skill selection, you have to actually build another character of the same class. Town swapping is more freedom than most games offer. Not less.
On-the-fly skill swapping would make combat tedious and take away the hack and slash feel that you expect from a dungeon crawl. I mean really. With that setup you have two selected skills, to choose from 6 trained/known skills, that you can choose actively from the full set of skills? 3 Tiers of live, on the fly skill management? If the game were really meant to work with everyone having live access to all their class skills, it would have been better to have you pick your two active skills from the full skill set and skip the intermediate trained/known process. On the fly trained/known skill swapping is just poor design, and town swapping is a good solution.
What I want to know is, why the **** are they constantly messing with how the rune system works, while crafting is alittle better the the original system, as long as It's not a downright bad system(like not being able to know what a rune is, until place in a skill), no one gives a flying **** about how exactly you obtain them, Blizzard pick a damn system already.
I can't understand why they are screwing around with such minor aspects of the rune system, and now possibly adding more ranks(adding more ranks can wait until expanion, 7 is plenty for now).
Why are they worried about stuff that people could care less about, when if anything, they should be adding more "Rune Types", which would drastically increase the quality of gameplay.
Sigh they just changed it to the crafting system, and they are already thinking of changing it, make up your damn minds already.
They are an iterative design company. They try new systems all the time until they find something that works. Changing how a player comes across runes is a relatively simple change.
Coming up with new runes is a huge endeavor. That requires concept design, art and sound design, implementation, testing, fixing, retesting...
And really, there's a point where having too many choices is annoying too. Can you imagine having 100 possible rune effects for every skill? That's obviously extreme, but the point is there's a line in there. 5, I think it just right. It's enough options to be interesting without being so many as to be overwhelming.
In short, Blizzard will keep changing the rune system until they find something that works really well. That's a good thing. It's certainly better than just picking something and forcing it to work. That's how most companies do it, and that's why Blizzard's games last 10+ years, and others' don't.
They are an iterative design company. They try new systems all the time until they find something that works. Changing how a player comes across runes is a relatively simple change.
Coming up with new runes is a huge endeavor. That requires concept design, art and sound design, implementation, testing, fixing, retesting...
And really, there's a point where having too many choices is annoying too. Can you imagine having 100 possible rune effects for every skill? That's obviously extreme, but the point is there's a line in there. 5, I think it just right. It's enough options to be interesting without being so many as to be overwhelming.
In short, Blizzard will keep changing the rune system until they find something that works really well. That's a good thing. It's certainly better than just picking something and forcing it to work. That's how most companies do it, and that's why Blizzard's games last 10+ years, and others' don't.
Yes, but not only would each of the two good systems work, it really doesn't matter much which system they use, noone would give a **** either way(the effect on gameplay would be so little, It's not funny).
If they want to change systems, change systems that would actually effect gameplay(like ass stat allocation, and skill trees back to the game), stop messing around with a minor aspect like obtaining runes. Why don't they actually do some work on the game for crying out loud(the systems are so simplifed/cut short, It's hard to imagine they even spent 2 years on this game, let alone the insane 8ish they were supposedly took.
However I digress, now It's pretty damn clear why it has taken so long, they don't know WTF they are doing.
There is no excuses, why are they screwing around with a meaningless aspect like how to obtain runes(make a choice, and move on), yet there are only 4 rune types
Don't give me that ****, yes ofcourse it is, but if Blizzard would stop screwing around with mechanics that only take a matter of minutes or so to impliment, they could spend the time on actual game development, such as adding more rune.
Also considering the rune affects changing how skills work is the only complex thing in this entire game, they have more then enough time to make more rune types, so I don't want to hear "that's alot of work" kind of remarks(glad something is)
Without skill trees, then having an insanely low lv cap even just 5 runes would be a joke.
Also considering you can only have 6 active skills anyway, that's a bogus thing to state(lol trying to claim customization can be a bad thing, this game lacks anykind of customization, so to even claim such, is funny)
I am now convinced, Blizzard is actually "trying" to make a subpar game. Hell, It's either that or they're just being super lazy(thus they are purposely wasting time, until release).
Again don't give me that BS(do you work for Blizzard or something, because you sound just like them). WTF is wrong with the new crafting format(or the original rune system for that matter) for lv 5,6, and 7, oh yea that's right, nothing, infact It's as good as a system you can have, now move on.
No, the older Blizzard games lasted 10 years, because they actually put effort into the gameplay(lol yet the older games didn't take this long to make).
Also there are other developers that made games that have lasted for 10 years too, so don't even try to claim Blizzard is the only one.
I'm going to flame you to hell if I try to answer you in any serious manner. You're telling me you put the blame of this on the gaming communities and all the amazing things they have done, all the progress it has allowed. You have no damn clue what you're attacking.
I know the modding community have done some pretty amazing stuff, but are you serious? It's far more destructive for companies to take the chance these days. And saying that DRM and online-only gaming is not to be blamed on the community is just pure ignorance. Progress, maybe, but how many companies have had to shut down because of poor sales from amazing games, just because of hacked leaks? Games that will never have their sequels see the light of day because thereof.
Imagine you create something, which so-called 'fans' then steal and release to the public, before you can do so. It's outrageous and disgusting. It's intellectual property theft.
So, you threaten to flame someone to hell for pointing this out to you? I know you have a Rise Against avatar, but if you want to be part of the civilized, adult world and have a decent conversation, then you're gonna have to check that teenage, rebel attitude at the door.
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Your quote is a bit excessive, the internet much more accessible than it used to be. And you could easily argue the opposite, that the people who modded, cracked and hacked games are the ones that ultimately made companies need to include things like DRM and Online-Only just to provide a fun and hack free environment. Personally games like D1 and D2, despite being awesome, were ultimately ruined in the long run because of 'the gaming community'.
Except you were effectively locked in on skills in an even more extreme way - basically past a certain point you had decided which skills you were going to use forever - at least this new system affords you the opportunity to change your build significantly without rolling a new character. To use D2 skills as an example- I can now switch from being a frozen orb sorc to a meteor sorc - in the past you were one or the other with no hope of EVER making a change. A trip to town to make that change doesnt seem like that much to ask to radically alter the way your char plays.
A huge dmg nerf would make your character unplayable for 30 seconds.
All they want to do is stop people from doing it during combat.
And the resource idea would only penalize the WD, maybe.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
During normal difficulty, since you'll frequently be leveling up and also not have all your active skill slots available, I think freely swapping skills makes sense.
Maybe during nightmare, skills are freely swappable in town, and in the field with restriction (be that a cast time, or a not in combat related mechanic). This is mostly because I'm not sure we'll hit level 30 before heading into nightmare, and players are probably still learning how they want to play, experimenting with runes and such.
During Hell and Inferno, town only.
PvP, only before the battle starts. Maybe after respawns before you leave your spawn zone (this is like picking a different class/loadout in an FPS game).
This way there's plenty of room for experimentation while leveling up, but when you get serious, you have to balance a build that will work in most situations.
As far as what in field restrictions could look like, I like the idea of it being based on no damage dealt or received for 10 seconds. Anything longer than 10 seconds means I could just go back to town and get it done more quickly. I don't like a cast time on swapping skills because it complicates the interface. Hitting a button to lock in your skills is an extra click that isn't really needed.
Or maybe even just no skills used for 10 seconds. Use a skill, your active skill pane is locked for 10 seconds.
You didn't read very carefully. I suggested changing from "As long as you have not taken damage" to "As long as you have not dealt damage"
I thought the bold text would have been clear enough but apparently not =/
Ohh that is totally my fault, I read the skill and my brain must of just substituted in what I thought you would say, rather than what you said.
I + your idea,
Anyways, here is mine,
I have an alternative idea though, and its quite simple.
Just put a 5-10-15 second cast on switching skills, maybe just outside of town, or maybe anywhere.
You cant move, so switching during combat would be very difficult at best.
And if someone really wants to take that risk, I do not see a problem with it.
Another idea, that could go in conjunction with this idea is to not allow runes in unused skills. And maybe, also adding a cast time to place runes into skills.
So, at higher levels, even if you could switch a skill during combat, it would be a much weaker version of the skill. Of course, you would have to do something about the unattuned rune #'s, as this would just make it worse.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
I'm not saying this is a radical change, but to me it would be a pretty big annoyance that could occur many times throughout my playthrough. Having to go all the way back to town to change a skill is effectively removing me from progression, would cause aggravation, and snap me out of suspension of belief. While I would be fine with an out of combat cooldown over a return to town I still would rather neither.
Official Blizzard Quote:
We have no idea how the unattuned system is going to work.
That fills me with confidence. I know well enough not to take Bashioks posts at face value but that really makes me think Q2 of 2012 is optimistic. Their progress seems slow, even by Bliz standards...or maybe that is just the outward appearance. Ah well, I'll just have to stop following this game save for the brief blizzcon info that we may get. July 2012 anyone?
1) Unattuned runes vs. attuned runes. I'm with the guy who wants both to drop. I think it would be much more interesting.
2) Skill swapping: All this focus on timers, town, etc.. is too much imo. How about: As long as there are no enemies on screen, you can swap skills. I might also add that in the Diablo world, you can usually die in just a couple of hits. Thus, they don't even need to put a limiter on skill swapping as long as the interface is cumbersome enough. If you know you don't have time to swap skills while defending yourself, then you won't do it. Lastly, your items will dictate your skills a heck of a lot more than the WoW crowd is used to. As a result, it's never going to be as simple as swap skill x for skill y. Instead, you're really looking at swap skill x and y for skills p and q, swap helms, change from 2H sword to 1H sword with shield, change boots, replace the mana pots in my belt with healing pots.
3) Blizzard does indeed sound like they are still making major design decisions about the game at this very late stage. It's a lack of vision and leadership in their design team that allows for this sort of "design creep." Things like changing all abilities to be % of weapon damage, reworking Hatred / Discipline functionality, and the Unattuned runestones are all major changes to very fundamental design elements of the game. I'll be shocked if we see this game before march.
Q2 2012?!? That is way too late.
Coming up with a rune system idea and implementing it should be rather easy.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
I agree, even though this seems to be a "big" part of the game in all reality it's a small, small part. We still have 3 months left in 2011, that's 90 days of progress ahead. Then Q1 is still a few months so if it takes a month or 2 that's even longer. They said that they are on the home stretch, so that means they are feeling confident with most of the game mechanics they have set.
of taking immediate advantage of skill swapping,
that can be easily implemented unlike
incombat/out of combat system ,which can be ideal solution
but as some bliz posted takes time to implement.
So it can be 30% damage for 10sec as well.
resource penalty also can be adjusted.
Generally, in action RPGs, you select the skills you want as you progress, and you get used to using them together. Your skill choices end up effecting your playstyle and defining your role. Diablo III with town swapping is kind of like that, except with the option to go back to town and rethink your skills and fine tune your strategy. In most simliar games, if you aren't satisfied with skill selection, you have to actually build another character of the same class. Town swapping is more freedom than most games offer. Not less.
On-the-fly skill swapping would make combat tedious and take away the hack and slash feel that you expect from a dungeon crawl. I mean really. With that setup you have two selected skills, to choose from 6 trained/known skills, that you can choose actively from the full set of skills? 3 Tiers of live, on the fly skill management? If the game were really meant to work with everyone having live access to all their class skills, it would have been better to have you pick your two active skills from the full skill set and skip the intermediate trained/known process. On the fly trained/known skill swapping is just poor design, and town swapping is a good solution.
I can't understand why they are screwing around with such minor aspects of the rune system, and now possibly adding more ranks(adding more ranks can wait until expanion, 7 is plenty for now).
Why are they worried about stuff that people could care less about, when if anything, they should be adding more "Rune Types", which would drastically increase the quality of gameplay.
Sigh they just changed it to the crafting system, and they are already thinking of changing it, make up your damn minds already.
They are an iterative design company. They try new systems all the time until they find something that works. Changing how a player comes across runes is a relatively simple change.
Coming up with new runes is a huge endeavor. That requires concept design, art and sound design, implementation, testing, fixing, retesting...
And really, there's a point where having too many choices is annoying too. Can you imagine having 100 possible rune effects for every skill? That's obviously extreme, but the point is there's a line in there. 5, I think it just right. It's enough options to be interesting without being so many as to be overwhelming.
In short, Blizzard will keep changing the rune system until they find something that works really well. That's a good thing. It's certainly better than just picking something and forcing it to work. That's how most companies do it, and that's why Blizzard's games last 10+ years, and others' don't.
Yes, but not only would each of the two good systems work, it really doesn't matter much which system they use, noone would give a **** either way(the effect on gameplay would be so little, It's not funny).
If they want to change systems, change systems that would actually effect gameplay(like ass stat allocation, and skill trees back to the game), stop messing around with a minor aspect like obtaining runes. Why don't they actually do some work on the game for crying out loud(the systems are so simplifed/cut short, It's hard to imagine they even spent 2 years on this game, let alone the insane 8ish they were supposedly took.
However I digress, now It's pretty damn clear why it has taken so long, they don't know WTF they are doing.
There is no excuses, why are they screwing around with a meaningless aspect like how to obtain runes(make a choice, and move on), yet there are only 4 rune types
Don't give me that ****, yes ofcourse it is, but if Blizzard would stop screwing around with mechanics that only take a matter of minutes or so to impliment, they could spend the time on actual game development, such as adding more rune.
Also considering the rune affects changing how skills work is the only complex thing in this entire game, they have more then enough time to make more rune types, so I don't want to hear "that's alot of work" kind of remarks(glad something is)
Without skill trees, then having an insanely low lv cap even just 5 runes would be a joke.
Also considering you can only have 6 active skills anyway, that's a bogus thing to state(lol trying to claim customization can be a bad thing, this game lacks anykind of customization, so to even claim such, is funny)
I am now convinced, Blizzard is actually "trying" to make a subpar game. Hell, It's either that or they're just being super lazy(thus they are purposely wasting time, until release).
Again don't give me that BS(do you work for Blizzard or something, because you sound just like them). WTF is wrong with the new crafting format(or the original rune system for that matter) for lv 5,6, and 7, oh yea that's right, nothing, infact It's as good as a system you can have, now move on.
No, the older Blizzard games lasted 10 years, because they actually put effort into the gameplay(lol yet the older games didn't take this long to make).
Also there are other developers that made games that have lasted for 10 years too, so don't even try to claim Blizzard is the only one.
Imagine you create something, which so-called 'fans' then steal and release to the public, before you can do so. It's outrageous and disgusting. It's intellectual property theft.
So, you threaten to flame someone to hell for pointing this out to you? I know you have a Rise Against avatar, but if you want to be part of the civilized, adult world and have a decent conversation, then you're gonna have to check that teenage, rebel attitude at the door.