So I've been reading up of the artisan system a little and I want to know your thoughts on salvaging. We learned that through a special device acquired during the game, characters will be able to break down items into smaller materials. These materials will then be traded with the blacksmith and other artisans (presumably) in order for them to level up and learn new crafting recipes.
My concern is this; in D2, by the time you got to the Hell mode and were in the upper levels of character development, weaker items became obsolete to you. Normal and exceptional items didn't mean much and were either ignored, discarded, sold, or just given away. Things got more complicated as the rune system was introduced to the economy in LOD. Currency was greatly dependent on runes. If you were a lower level character, trading became quite difficult and tiresome. Does salvaging present a similar problem? Won't the ability to deconstruct items limit tradability? For example, if I'm a higher level character and I find a moderately good weapon which has potential for trade with lower level characters, wouldn't I simply be more inclined to salvage it? We also know that drops will be character specific. So, if an upper level character is playing with lower level characters and gets dropped items which could be beneficial to the other players, the upper level character is faced with the decision to give/trade these items or salvage them for his/herself. Then again, salvaging also seems to make gameplay a lot faster and helps to save space in one's inventory. Do the pros outweigh the cons or vice-versa?
I think you have a great point here.
The salvaging mechanic allows high level players to dispose low level gear they find and turn it into something more "useful" to them.
However, this was the case in many games played.
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They have "Exactly" the same system D3 is just now introducing. And this game has been out for quite some time.
The problem is not the salvaging part, the problem is the "will" of each players who want to sell them.
In d2, if you found white item, you would salvage it without any question.
Blue item, the same case unless its epic. However, I personally never liked trading so I always through out unique as well. But again this is a preference thing. People have different approach to what they wanna do with the items they find. I never like trading so I will go ahead and salvage "the white" items and depending on the epicness of the lewt, sure I'll go and trade if I want a dye or something.
But most will be salvaged so I can level up my artisans. I think the currency will also be "artifacts" the materials you need to level your artisans. Assuming when artisans are higher level, you can craft items that are pretty epic.
First off, what you are explaining as the downside of salvaging is actually its main purpose, to remove items from the game. With a game like Diablo, items will continually build and saturate the market. The salvaging mechanic helps to remove some of this inflation to help stabilize the market.
There are a couple of other things to take into account. Once you start leveling your artisan to higher levels, then they are going to need even higher level/quality items to get the resources needed to level them even higher. Regular and exceptional items won't salvage into the pieces you will need to give to your artisan. You will need magic and rare items to salvage to get the right pieces.
So, if a high level is playing with a low level, then the high level is not getting good enough drops to make it useful for him to salvage. If the lowbie is being rushed, which won't be as easy without TP's, then the gear is too high for the character to use anyway. The biggest issue, at least to as you see it, is when two equal level characters are playing. Because only then is the gear useful on both levels of salvaging or keeping.
A lot of this issue is also curved by the per player drops. This means in a game of four people, four times as much loot drops in total. So, it is not likely anyone is really getting screwed out of gear if one player wants to salvage everything that drops for them. But if they are playing with friends, then I am sure an offer will be made if they get something useful for another player.
As far as trading as a whole, again salvaging just helps remove items from the game so there are not 1,000,000 unique swords up for trade diminishing their value. The trade economy will only improve with salvaging. Players will get to choose if they want to sell their items for gold to buy better things or sacrifice their items to craft their own better things. Again, it just helps eat up a part of the inflation of the economy.
So, IMO, I don't really see any cons to salvaging.
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Scyber said pretty much what i was thinking. It's all a matter of choice, but in the end, a few years into the game i think salvaging uniques will be far more common since there uniques and high level items in general will be losing their value. Blizzard already said that "ladder and non ladder" isn't a good system and they don't look plan to use it.
Also keep in mind that salvaged materials will be worth their own fair amount also. So say you find a decent high level axe and salvage it, changes are there will be a market for some of those materials.
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Also keep in mind that salvaged materials will be worth their own fair amount also. So say you find a decent high level axe and salvage it, changes are there will be a market for some of those materials.
That's true, which will also be a reason people won't trade their unique items, unless your playing with friends of course.
I think players will still trade uniques, but it does give options to players who do not like to trade or to players playing Single Player to salvage it.
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Do you think the highest craftable gear will be better than per say the act 4 boss drop?
Im curious because, in previous games i played these, some crafted gears were better.
[But mostly because of the additional slot that you would have with the same amount of spec]
What are your ideas? will crafted items be used more often? or unique items that drop from boss?
P.S - Could unique items be enchanted so their specs increase?
Well, crafted gear will still have random attributes added to them. So it is possible that they are better but just as likely that a random drop will be better as well.
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And why don't people give good loot to strangers if they are in the same game and don't plan on using it. Just a 'hey would you use item X?' if yes here you go and the other player can reciprocate later. If you need the money or salvage don't bring it up. seems reasonable to me, but I don't really play with strangers.
As to what source will give you the best items, I believe somewhere (I think a Q&A panel) they Blizz said they want a maxed character to have a bit of crafted, some set, some unique items. This implies to me that some of the best items will have to be crafted, and some of the best items will have to be found.so if you don't lvl your artisans you may have to do with a sub par belt and pants, while if you don't go into the world and hunt for stuff you won't get the best helmets or some such. I want to say it was the Blizzcon Crafting Q&A '09? not sure though
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If that made sense to you, Bravo! I think I even confused myself...
Salvage won't have much effect on the economy. It's not in one's best interests to salvage items that are still in demand. The exception, of course, is if it yields materials that have higher demand themselves (by the way, no one knows anything about the rarity of materials). Good items will only be salvaged once demand has fallen to the point where the item is fairly ubiquitous; you'll just be breaking down the surplus. Salvage is meant to be used throughout the game to craft and level up your artisans, not to have something to do with previously good items after you've been playing for a long time.
More importantly, have you ever played a game with a salvage system? It's terrible! I'll telling you man, it's not fun at all. It feels like a chore. Do I look like an inmate? Do I want to pick up the litter along mile marker 118? No, I really don't. I just want to leave junk items on the ground where they belong. You get these materials which you have to manage; before you know it you're overflowing with the common crap. No thanks.
IMO, let the Artisans handle it. Let the Blacksmith automatically break down anything I sell to him and keep track of the materials. Gems too. You think I want to fiddle around with a dozen stacks of gems of different types/levels, bumbling over to the Jeweler to transmute them who knows how many times? Hell no! Let me just pawn all my gems off to him so he can automatically combine them for me. That way when I want to socket an item he'll sell me the best ones I can get. He's the one with the huge caravan specifically for jewelry and gems; why the hell am I the one carrying it all?
More importantly, have you ever played a game with a salvage system? It's terrible! I'll telling you man, it's not fun at all. It feels like a chore. Do I look like an inmate? Do I want to pick up the litter along mile marker 118? No, I really don't. I just want to leave junk items on the ground where they belong.
you won't have to pick up everything to salvage. They have said that, basically, if you wouldn't pick it up to possible equip it (excluding the item type), then you won't bother picking it up to salvage. So, once you no longer have normal items equipped, you probably won't need the items salvaged from normal items. Once you have all uniques, sets and rares, then you won't need to pick up magic items to salvage either.
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I can see that you just want the action part of the RPG and that is fine. You are likely going to get the gear you need just by killing things and by trading.
I will likely go the other method and look into creating the gear with the Artisan. I will be picking up everything and salvaging it. If my clan mates do not want the item or the hassle they can give me the item to salvage. I will likely trade or give clan mates items that they may need.
I am hoping that I can get a lot of playing time that I had when D2 was released. I played well over 8 hours a day back then.
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I hope crafting system is complex enough that you really need to devote your time and effort into it. And of course, the items you get have to be rewarding however hard it is to craft it. I can see them putting one of the recipe as a unique item from a particular boss, which can make things more interesting as you climb up higher in crafting level.
But in my opinion, crafting is going something you have to do if you A) want to make money if you want a good gear.
This may not be for every gear but at least for a certain gear that you wont get in boss drops.
More importantly, have you ever played a game with a salvage system? It's terrible! I'll telling you man, it's not fun at all. It feels like a chore. Do I look like an inmate? Do I want to pick up the litter along mile marker 118?
The point of the salvage system is so that you don't need to waste all your time crafting items. The artisans will take care of that for you, unlike WoW where you need to spend hours crafting items. This system allows us to kill more monsters and explore Sanctuary to it's fullest, rather than spending all our time in town crafting.
Also it is meant to help the Single Player to advance in the game if his/her luck is bad at getting items from drops. The drops that did not benefit could be used in trying to get an item that the character is lacking without doing a lot of re-running areas due to the character lacking items to continue.
The shared stash will help single player characters out but still it is nice to find/create items for that character by that character.
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Also it is meant to help the Single Player to advance in the game if his/her luck is bad at getting items from drops. The drops that did not benefit could be used in trying to get an item that the character is lacking without doing a lot of re-running areas due to the character lacking items to continue.
That's true, and this concept will still apply in multiplayer as well, not just single player.
What i fear is what ive seen in other rpg, such as FFXIII, last remnant, final fantasy tactics A2, ect; part of the system they had in place is that some upgrades you needed low lvl stuff to get higher stuff, so if you went through a part of the game fast and didnt pick up enough of this item you had to go back and grind low lvl crap gaining no xp and largely wasting time. I hope blizzard is smart enough to see around this, but if they base it off their enchanting lvling system of wow, it will not be fun, you will need, lets say 100 things from lvl 1-10, 100 from 11-20, ect, but what they seem to forget is even though 1-10 and 11-20 are technically the same number of levels you spend 4 times as long on the latter. So say it takes 10 hours to lvl from 1-10, and you need 100 things to "disenchant" or "destroy" or "salvage" that means you need to find 10 things an hour to do so (and hope it salvages into exactly what you want), now consider lvls 11-20, you need 100 items but now you have 40 hours to find them, now you only need 2.5 things to drop per hour. WoW/blizzard never seemed to get this point, i would either have to go back and get stuff from the past, or i would be stuck on a certain tier/10lvl span that i would get ahead and my profession would be at a stand still.
What i fear is what ive seen in other rpg, such as FFXIII, last remnant, final fantasy tactics A2, ect; part of the system they had in place is that some upgrades you needed low lvl stuff to get higher stuff, so if you went through a part of the game fast and didnt pick up enough of this item you had to go back and grind low lvl crap gaining no xp and largely wasting time. I hope blizzard is smart enough to see around this, but if they base it off their enchanting lvling system of wow, it will not be fun, you will need, lets say 100 things from lvl 1-10, 100 from 11-20, ect, but what they seem to forget is even though 1-10 and 11-20 are technically the same number of levels you spend 4 times as long on the latter. So say it takes 10 hours to lvl from 1-10, and you need 100 things to "disenchant" or "destroy" or "salvage" that means you need to find 10 things an hour to do so (and hope it salvages into exactly what you want), now consider lvls 11-20, you need 100 items but now you have 40 hours to find them, now you only need 2.5 things to drop per hour. WoW/blizzard never seemed to get this point, i would either have to go back and get stuff from the past, or i would be stuck on a certain tier/10lvl span that i would get ahead and my profession would be at a stand still.
Hope all that makes sense.
That makes sense, but I don't think it matters what level your artisan is. You can salvage any salvagable item at any level, however you will require a higher level artisan to get higher level crafted gear. You'll also need to find the recipes for the gear.
My concern is this; in D2, by the time you got to the Hell mode and were in the upper levels of character development, weaker items became obsolete to you. Normal and exceptional items didn't mean much and were either ignored, discarded, sold, or just given away. Things got more complicated as the rune system was introduced to the economy in LOD. Currency was greatly dependent on runes. If you were a lower level character, trading became quite difficult and tiresome. Does salvaging present a similar problem? Won't the ability to deconstruct items limit tradability? For example, if I'm a higher level character and I find a moderately good weapon which has potential for trade with lower level characters, wouldn't I simply be more inclined to salvage it? We also know that drops will be character specific. So, if an upper level character is playing with lower level characters and gets dropped items which could be beneficial to the other players, the upper level character is faced with the decision to give/trade these items or salvage them for his/herself. Then again, salvaging also seems to make gameplay a lot faster and helps to save space in one's inventory. Do the pros outweigh the cons or vice-versa?
Thoughts??
The salvaging mechanic allows high level players to dispose low level gear they find and turn it into something more "useful" to them.
However, this was the case in many games played.
Cabal online, one of the most facinating Fast paced RPG game i have played... source: (www.cabal.co.kr or www.cabal.com)
They have "Exactly" the same system D3 is just now introducing. And this game has been out for quite some time.
The problem is not the salvaging part, the problem is the "will" of each players who want to sell them.
In d2, if you found white item, you would salvage it without any question.
Blue item, the same case unless its epic. However, I personally never liked trading so I always through out unique as well. But again this is a preference thing. People have different approach to what they wanna do with the items they find. I never like trading so I will go ahead and salvage "the white" items and depending on the epicness of the lewt, sure I'll go and trade if I want a dye or something.
But most will be salvaged so I can level up my artisans. I think the currency will also be "artifacts" the materials you need to level your artisans. Assuming when artisans are higher level, you can craft items that are pretty epic.
There are a couple of other things to take into account. Once you start leveling your artisan to higher levels, then they are going to need even higher level/quality items to get the resources needed to level them even higher. Regular and exceptional items won't salvage into the pieces you will need to give to your artisan. You will need magic and rare items to salvage to get the right pieces.
So, if a high level is playing with a low level, then the high level is not getting good enough drops to make it useful for him to salvage. If the lowbie is being rushed, which won't be as easy without TP's, then the gear is too high for the character to use anyway. The biggest issue, at least to as you see it, is when two equal level characters are playing. Because only then is the gear useful on both levels of salvaging or keeping.
A lot of this issue is also curved by the per player drops. This means in a game of four people, four times as much loot drops in total. So, it is not likely anyone is really getting screwed out of gear if one player wants to salvage everything that drops for them. But if they are playing with friends, then I am sure an offer will be made if they get something useful for another player.
As far as trading as a whole, again salvaging just helps remove items from the game so there are not 1,000,000 unique swords up for trade diminishing their value. The trade economy will only improve with salvaging. Players will get to choose if they want to sell their items for gold to buy better things or sacrifice their items to craft their own better things. Again, it just helps eat up a part of the inflation of the economy.
So, IMO, I don't really see any cons to salvaging.
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I have to agree, if you're playing with friends, gear won't be salvaged as much.
If your in a random PUG on the other hand, you may not even know if a good item drops for your allies, even if you could potentially use it.
I personally think the salvage system, and the entire artisan system is a great thing for the Diablo series.
Take care,
Split.
That's true, which will also be a reason people won't trade their unique items, unless your playing with friends of course.
Im curious because, in previous games i played these, some crafted gears were better.
[But mostly because of the additional slot that you would have with the same amount of spec]
What are your ideas? will crafted items be used more often? or unique items that drop from boss?
P.S - Could unique items be enchanted so their specs increase?
Find any Diablo news? Contact me or anyone else on the News team
As to what source will give you the best items, I believe somewhere (I think a Q&A panel) they Blizz said they want a maxed character to have a bit of crafted, some set, some unique items. This implies to me that some of the best items will have to be crafted, and some of the best items will have to be found.so if you don't lvl your artisans you may have to do with a sub par belt and pants, while if you don't go into the world and hunt for stuff you won't get the best helmets or some such. I want to say it was the Blizzcon Crafting Q&A '09? not sure though
More importantly, have you ever played a game with a salvage system? It's terrible! I'll telling you man, it's not fun at all. It feels like a chore. Do I look like an inmate? Do I want to pick up the litter along mile marker 118? No, I really don't. I just want to leave junk items on the ground where they belong. You get these materials which you have to manage; before you know it you're overflowing with the common crap. No thanks.
IMO, let the Artisans handle it. Let the Blacksmith automatically break down anything I sell to him and keep track of the materials. Gems too. You think I want to fiddle around with a dozen stacks of gems of different types/levels, bumbling over to the Jeweler to transmute them who knows how many times? Hell no! Let me just pawn all my gems off to him so he can automatically combine them for me. That way when I want to socket an item he'll sell me the best ones I can get. He's the one with the huge caravan specifically for jewelry and gems; why the hell am I the one carrying it all?
you won't have to pick up everything to salvage. They have said that, basically, if you wouldn't pick it up to possible equip it (excluding the item type), then you won't bother picking it up to salvage. So, once you no longer have normal items equipped, you probably won't need the items salvaged from normal items. Once you have all uniques, sets and rares, then you won't need to pick up magic items to salvage either.
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I will likely go the other method and look into creating the gear with the Artisan. I will be picking up everything and salvaging it. If my clan mates do not want the item or the hassle they can give me the item to salvage. I will likely trade or give clan mates items that they may need.
I am hoping that I can get a lot of playing time that I had when D2 was released. I played well over 8 hours a day back then.
But in my opinion, crafting is going something you have to do if you A) want to make money if you want a good gear.
This may not be for every gear but at least for a certain gear that you wont get in boss drops.
The point of the salvage system is so that you don't need to waste all your time crafting items. The artisans will take care of that for you, unlike WoW where you need to spend hours crafting items. This system allows us to kill more monsters and explore Sanctuary to it's fullest, rather than spending all our time in town crafting.
The shared stash will help single player characters out but still it is nice to find/create items for that character by that character.
That's true, and this concept will still apply in multiplayer as well, not just single player.
Hope all that makes sense.
That makes sense, but I don't think it matters what level your artisan is. You can salvage any salvagable item at any level, however you will require a higher level artisan to get higher level crafted gear. You'll also need to find the recipes for the gear.
At least that's what I understand anyways.