I dunno about you guys, but for me the thing that made Diablo 2 so good was the fact there was so many different types of runs with different goals and multiple specs which were better dependent of the run you was doing. In D2 I remember logging on and maybe Meteorbing some Mephy runs for loot before switching to a Hdin for forge runs and then leveling a bit in baal runs, maybe light sorc for some countess/cave runs or gold finding trist runs with a barb and this is just the start there was loads of different ways of playing and things to do.
Now we switch to the current RoS, and 1 build does all theres no real advantage to switching it around and the only thing you do is bounties and rifts which apart from a change in scenery all boil down to "kill x amount of monsters and then kill y super monster" which is well kinda dull. I want more, I want more randomness in rifts like maps in PoE, I want to turn a corner in a rift and walk into butcher + Azmodan together for an epic random fight, I want to do boss runs and actually get something or group up for epic spammable events with bosses at the end like chaos or baal.
Finally and most importantly I want multiple builds with different item sets all of which are better at one thing and worse at another while resistance imunities did at times make D2 annoying it also forced you to go down routes outside of the ideal and this was good.
So what do u guys think, do u think rifts + bounties are enough or do u agree that there needs to be more viable gameplay options and things that make different runs either very difficult or impossible unless you mix up your build a little?
Not for me. Runs were a total pain, I hated having to reload the game over and over after 2 minutes of action. D3 is way better in that regard, although I thought they really handicapped themselves when they forced you to follow the story and made it so you can't go between Acts easily. With that changing in Adventure Mode, I'm super excited. The bounties add a good layer of direction on top of the free-roaming aspect, so I think that's also great. I think the real reason people remember runs very fondly is because they were very rewarding, which I think RoS will solve as well.
I also think Rifts are looking great, and I think all of the things that I would recommend changing for them are just what they were planning for the Nephalem Trials. So, I was disappointed to see that delayed/scrapped.
One thing I've never really understood is the attachment to "builds" in D2. I mean, for most of them, all you did was pick the same 1-point wonders and then 2 or 3 main skills to max out. What's the difference between a Meteorb sorc and a Lit sorc? One casts Meteor and Frozen Orb, the other casts Chain Lightning. Both take one point in Warmth, Static Field, Teleport, and Thunderstorm, and the rest just goes into pre-reqs and synergies you never cast. You have to make a whole new character just so you can cast Chain Lightning instead of Frozen Orb. How is that better than simply going to town, opening your skill menu, and switching one for the other?
Bounties alone are better than repetitive boss runs in D2. Hell, the NV system at least makes you do something other than just run to the boss. I don't understand why you think rifts don't provide enough randomness. Random areas, random monsters, a random boss, what the hell more do you want?
I'll grant you that there aren't many good skill builds in D3, at least in terms of what is most efficient. But even in the current version of the game, there are plenty of viable ways to build your character. Throw in all the skill changes and legendary affixes coming in the xpack, and there will be more than enough variety. There will always be room for improvement for sure, but they are making great strides in getting this game where it needs to be.
Have you actually played much of the beta or even watched streams? RoS is looking fantastic.
Finally and most importantly I want multiple builds with different item sets all of which are better at one thing and worse at another while resistance imunities did at times make D2 annoying it also forced you to go down routes outside of the ideal and this was good.
So what do u guys think, do u think rifts + bounties are enough or do u agree that there needs to be more viable gameplay options and things that make different runs either very difficult or impossible unless you mix up your build a little?
Right off the bat...elemental immunitites in Hell D2 wasn't just "annoying". And how exactly did it encourage people to go down routes outside of the ideal? It was a solid brick wall, and if you didn't take it into account, in very specific ways, or simply teamed up so that other people filled in the gaps, you were straight up SOL. Pure and simple. I do think that in D3 they should add some kind of elemental resistances, but D2 had immunities that weren't just annoying, they were a royal pain in the ass that pigeonholed a lot of specialty builds.
That being said, I think you're missing the point of what Bounties are trying to accomplish.
You say that there were lots of different types of runs. With Bounties, you get most of those things accomplished all at once. Honestly, if the D2 devs designed that game so that certain bosses and areas were better or worse for certain farming, that'd be pretty crummy. I mean, boss runs sucked eventually, as people abused them royally for item drops. The thing tha makes it a "game" is that you're conquering challenges for great reward. But when people get to high enough levels of strength, they're running "Mephy" repeatedly, over and over and over, making it look like too easy, and just abusing the high drop rates. It's no longer a game, it's just "ooh, what kinda great stuff do I get today? What presents did Grandpa Blizzard bring me?"
Honestly, boss runs in the past are no wonder why D2 players were so spoiled when it comes to D3 drop rates. Every log-in was just more and more and more and more and more uniques and exceptional weapons and sets and runes and gems and gold just raining from the sky.
In D3, you have to work for it. Well...at least once the AH goes away, you'll have to work for it, ;-)
Anyway, Bounties are meant to offer both randomization AND reward. From what I've been hearing, high levels of Torment may end up being harder than Inferno MP10, and if that's the case, WITHOUT Life Steal? That's going to be something to truly conquer and work toward.
You say there should be different builds that are better or worse for some cases than others. How is that not going to happen in the expansion/updates? Rifts look like they'll have huge density, which means AoE and Crowd Control would be better. Regular areas might be less dense (a bit denser than the beta would be nice, though), so single target skills might be better for taking down the Bounty Targets faster. Plus, both of those things can be boosted in strength with the right gear. Single target skills can be enhanced by items with splash damage affixes. Legendary effects can change an entire build, and depending on what you saved, you can have almost any build you want at a moment's notice.
In the past, it would've been nice if certain areas were specifically better or worse for farming certain items, but Bounty rewards in the form of Horadric Caches and Blood Shards offer plenty of rewards, just in different ways. You aren't just farming one thing at any one time, you're basically farming everything all at once. It's a matter of what you choose to pursue. Crafting? More killing? Enchanting? Gambling? XP in the Rifts?
Bottom line...farming specific spots for specific things is a little archaic and old-fashioned. Bounties seem very productive. They offer an incredibly wide variety of possible rewards, and the choice is up to the player mainly in what to pursue, rather than what bosses or areas to bulldoze.
In a strange way...it almost seems like Blizzard is trying to eliminate the concept of "farming", and instead make the game a lot more organic. If it's too easy? Crank up the difficulty. With some of the system and gameplay changes, bulldozing Torment VI isn't going to be a cakewalk. Yes, I think some streamers have been doing it, but remember...beta...higher drop rates of legendaries...and enemies/skills need tuning.
Yes, I think some streamers have been doing it, but remember...beta...higher drop rates of legendaries...and enemies need tuning.
And don't forget that the streamers represent the top 1% of the population. This beta is great for showing off the new features, but you absolutely can't use this as an exact reference for how long it will take to "finish" the game.
Yes, I think some streamers have been doing it, but remember...beta...higher drop rates of legendaries...and enemies need tuning.
And don't forget that the streamers represent the top 1% of the population. This beta is great for showing off the new features, but you absolutely can't use this as an exact reference for how long it will take to "finish" the game.
Plus, many of the streamers are starting the RoS beta with PTR characters copied from their regular accounts. Which means, they're already starting with heavy duty gear sets AND a pretty nice amount of Paragon Points to play with.
Speaking of, I was watching some of the streams and there didn't seem to be a cost on respecing Paragon Points. That's gotta be changing. :-)
Yes, I think some streamers have been doing it, but remember...beta...higher drop rates of legendaries...and enemies need tuning.
And don't forget that the streamers represent the top 1% of the population. This beta is great for showing off the new features, but you absolutely can't use this as an exact reference for how long it will take to "finish" the game.
Plus, many of the streamers are starting the RoS beta with PTR characters copied from their regular accounts. Which means, they're already starting with heavy duty gear sets AND a pretty nice amount of Paragon Points to play with.
Speaking of, I was watching some of the streams and there didn't seem to be a cost on respecing Paragon Points. That's gotta be changing. :-)
I would hate having a cost to respec paragon points. What if I find a really great build changing weapon and want to move around my points to better suit this new build? I don't want to drop mass amounts of gold or some rare reagent to do so. If they make the cost small what would be the point of it besides a mild annoyance?
I would hate having a cost to respec paragon points. What if I find a really great build changing weapon and want to move around my points to better suit this new build? I don't want to drop mass amounts of gold or some rare reagent to do so. If they make the cost small what would be the point of it besides a mild annoyance?
If you find a really great build changing weapon, and want to move around your points to better suit the build...then save up the gold to respec! :-) Like you just said, if the cost is too small, then it's just an annoyance. Agreed, though, if the amount is too big, it'll be too much of an undertaking perhaps to bother with all that much...
But then again, items don't have anything more than a level and class requirement to be able to equip them. In games like D2 or PoE, you have to have a certain amount of particular stats to equip certain things, which makes it more "realistic," but I think this meets the midpoint perfectly. It ensures that people still have things to work toward, while also ensuring that people can't respec after every enemy encounter. "Ooh, these elites have Orbiter and Frozen Pulse, I'm gonna need more All Res, lemme just respec."
In fact, I'd be willing to bet that their decision to remove the cooldown on skill changing has something to do with Paragon Points having a cost to respec. You can change skills freely, but if you have a certain point spec that optimizes the use of particular legendaries, or even a particular set, in order to use something new, you'll have to save up and make the choice.
Like I said, I do think there's an amount that's "too much" as a cost to respec, but...I definitely think it's a good idea to apply a cost so that people aren't respecing points every couple yards of travel.
I would hate having a cost to respec paragon points. What if I find a really great build changing weapon and want to move around my points to better suit this new build? I don't want to drop mass amounts of gold or some rare reagent to do so. If they make the cost small what would be the point of it besides a mild annoyance?
If you find a really great build changing weapon, and want to move around your points to better suit the build...then save up the gold to respec! :-) Like you just said, if the cost is too small, then it's just an annoyance. Agreed, though, if the amount is too big, it'll be too much of an undertaking perhaps to bother with all that much...
But then again, items don't have anything more than a level and class requirement to be able to equip them. In games like D2 or PoE, you have to have a certain amount of particular stats to equip certain things, which makes it more "realistic," but I think this meets the midpoint perfectly. It ensures that people still have things to work toward, while also ensuring that people can't respec after every enemy encounter. "Ooh, these elites have Orbiter and Frozen Pulse, I'm gonna need more All Res, lemme just respec."
In fact, I'd be willing to bet that their decision to remove the cooldown on skill changing has something to do with Paragon Points having a cost to respec. You can change skills freely, but if you have a certain point spec that optimizes the use of particular legendaries, or even a particular set, in order to use something new, you'll have to save up and make the choice.
Like I said, I do think there's an amount that's "too much" as a cost to respec, but...I definitely think it's a good idea to apply a cost so that people aren't respecing points every couple yards of travel.
I agree on a nice middle ground, and I wouldn't want to be changing points every time I run into an elite. I think moving the cool down to something like "have to be out of combat for x minutes" or "enemies cannot be within x amount of yards" would work. Of course being in town has no cool down. If builds and points really do revolve around items and respecs do cost gold it would serve as a gold sink ( as long as they keep in mind the average players amount of gold)
In fact, I'd be willing to bet that their decision to remove the cooldown on skill changing has something to do with Paragon Points having a cost to respec. You can change skills freely, but if you have a certain point spec that optimizes the use of particular legendaries, or even a particular set, in order to use something new, you'll have to save up and make the choice.
Oh, come on, your choice of paragon point allocation won't make THAT much of a difference.
It won't, huh?
So, you don't think there's even a snowball's chance in hell that there's at least some people will (try to) max out particular stats in some of their tabs, then find items that boost those same stats, and want to change them?
Let's say someone's gear heading into the new patch gives them 70k Life. Right now, that's a pretty damn decent amount. So instead of tossing Paragon Points into Life%, they toss it into All Res to start out, to make up the difference. They put all their points into All Res, then they find a couple Legendaries that would instantly raise their All Res by 200! Without damage mitigation, even with 100k Life, a character can still watch their life melt away. And in this example, if this player wants to throw those legendaries on for the added All Res, they can...but they might be sacrificing a pretty huge chunk of Life% that 200 All Res may not make up the difference for. Meaning, they'd probably feel a bit better being able to reallocate.
But if there's a significant cost to respec...their best bet might be to hold onto those legendaries, stash 'em, save up, and respec when they're in a better place.
Given how much more defensive this game will be going into the new patch, especially without Life Steal to completely throw off the curve, I happen to think this COULD lead to a pretty critical decision. Or else, even if it's not critical...like I said, it still might mean holding onto that item, and simply saving up the gold or materials or whatever the cost is until the player can respec and redistribute their points to a place they're comfortable with.
Ultimately, Paragon Points may not make a massive difference until more have been allocated. However, if it at least causes people to 1) rethink gear choices, 2) think over where points should go, or 3) make decisions about battle based on either of those? I think Paragon 2.0 will have done Diablo 3 a great service.
In fact, I'd be willing to bet that their decision to remove the cooldown on skill changing has something to do with Paragon Points having a cost to respec. You can change skills freely, but if you have a certain point spec that optimizes the use of particular legendaries, or even a particular set, in order to use something new, you'll have to save up and make the choice.
Oh, come on, your choice of paragon point allocation won't make THAT much of a difference.
Ultimately, Paragon Points may not make a massive difference until more have been allocated. However, if it at least causes people to 1) rethink gear choices, 2) think over where points should go, or 3) make decisions about battle based on either of those? I think Paragon 2.0 will have done Diablo 3 a great service.
I agree and look forward to it. There is one minor problem(if you can even call it that) which is once you've reached the paragon level required to max every category.
People used to kill Ball 300 times over the course of a couple hours. Same skills, same boss, absolutely zero skill based gameplay and randomization, never coming close to dying, and getting crappy drops 99,99% of the time.
And then Rifts and Bounties don't offer enough randomization...? <_< mind is succesfuly blown...
I think you're overestimating people's amounts of paragon levels. To really start to make a difference, looking at the current values per point, I believe you'll have to get to 200+ paragon level region. That would give you 50 points per category, giving you 250 main stat/vit (a drop in the ocean of current RoS values), 10% AS or CC (good, no doubt, but not as defining as you're making it sound), 25% life (very nice) or 250 AR (meh)........and this is at P200, which is a looooooong way away for most people.
I think you might be looking at some of the values from a D3 classic perspective, and not keeping in mind the range of affixes that have been seen in RoS, especially damage, HP, main stat/vit.
Well of course, this opinion is coming from a guy who's mindset is entirely loot-centric, a mindset completely opposed to grinding of any kind. You've said that many times in this forum...that if it weren't for loot, D3 would feel like God of War, and that thought just is anathema to you. Which is fine, I respect that. I'm not saying that to discredit you in any way. I'm simply pointing that out because, naturally, grinding Paragon XP isn't going to be where you're going to prefer playing. You'll want the loot.
But part of what Paragon 2.0 is supposed to accomplish is to provide a bit of point allocating depth, without making it entirely too overcomplicated. D2 was great because it had a simple stat and skill system, but players did a lot with it and made a lot of cool builds. The D3 expansion will end up being largely the same as that. Simple systems, but players will do a lot with them.
So truthfully, I think you're underestimating how much impact Paragon Levels could have, along with overestimating how much time it'll take people to reach higher points.
Finally and most importantly I want multiple builds with different item sets all of which are better at one thing and worse at another while resistance imunities did at times make D2 annoying it also forced you to go down routes outside of the ideal and this was good.
Immunities were horrible. They were some mechanic that you could not conquer unless you had one of a handful of skills/items. All they were successful at were setting up a binary choice: "do you have item X, Y, or Z, or skill A, B, C?" If you passed that check you could kill them, otherwise you couldn't.
People often cite skills like Spirit Walk as bad because they seem pretty mandatory. Why you'd want to re-introduce things that basically create more mandatory choices in gear/abilities is beyond me.
In D2 I remember logging on and maybe Meteorbing some Mephy runs for loot before switching to a Hdin for forge runs and then leveling a bit in baal runs, maybe light sorc for some countess/cave runs or gold finding trist runs with a barb and this is just the start there was loads of different ways of playing and things to do.
I fail to see how using a tiny portion of the game for exceptionally-repetitive activities (all Baal, Meph, Pindle runs were sub-5 minute activities that involved no skill, no brain power, and minimal randomization) is better than bounties in any way possible. At least the D3 team is trying to re-use as much of the leveling experience for farming as possible.
Also gold finding runs? LOL. Sorry for laughing at you, but do you know how badly-received it would be if Blizzard went out of their way to make something like that viable? They'd get flamed from here to Sunday and back again, and rightfully so, because it's such a bad, old, outdated idea.
Finally and most importantly I want multiple builds with different item sets all of which are better at one thing and worse at another while resistance imunities did at times make D2 annoying it also forced you to go down routes outside of the ideal and this was good.
Immunities were horrible. They were some mechanic that you could not conquer unless you had one of a handful of skills/items. All they were successful at were setting up a binary choice: "do you have item X, Y, or Z, or skill A, B, C?" If you passed that check you could kill them, otherwise you couldn't.
People often cite skills like Spirit Walk as bad because they seem pretty mandatory. Why you'd want to re-introduce things that basically create more mandatory choices in gear/abilities is beyond me.
In D2 I remember logging on and maybe Meteorbing some Mephy runs for loot before switching to a Hdin for forge runs and then leveling a bit in baal runs, maybe light sorc for some countess/cave runs or gold finding trist runs with a barb and this is just the start there was loads of different ways of playing and things to do.
I fail to see how using a tiny portion of the game for exceptionally-repetitive activities (all Baal, Meph, Pindle runs were sub-5 minute activities that involved no skill, no brain power, and minimal randomization) is better than bounties in any way possible. At least the D3 team is trying to re-use as much of the leveling experience for farming as possible.
Also gold finding runs? LOL. Sorry for laughing at you, but do you know how badly-received it would be if Blizzard went out of their way to make something like that viable? They'd get flamed from here to Sunday and back again, and rightfully so, because it's such a bad, old, outdated idea.
Ty sir, this stops me from writing my own wall of text. +1 instead!
Yes, I think some streamers have been doing it, but remember...beta...higher drop rates of legendaries...and enemies need tuning.
And don't forget that the streamers represent the top 1% of the population. This beta is great for showing off the new features, but you absolutely can't use this as an exact reference for how long it will take to "finish" the game.
More like... streamers represent a tinnnnnnny bit of the population..... lol just because someone streams.... doesn't net them top 1%.....
I agree with the OP about builds and runs. One char to farm everything is boring. I wish there were builds that needed another stats than CC, CHD ASP, and legendaries for those builds.
Im hoping for the best in this exp, they have time to change things like bounties and rifts so let wait and see =P
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Now we switch to the current RoS, and 1 build does all theres no real advantage to switching it around and the only thing you do is bounties and rifts which apart from a change in scenery all boil down to "kill x amount of monsters and then kill y super monster" which is well kinda dull. I want more, I want more randomness in rifts like maps in PoE, I want to turn a corner in a rift and walk into butcher + Azmodan together for an epic random fight, I want to do boss runs and actually get something or group up for epic spammable events with bosses at the end like chaos or baal.
Finally and most importantly I want multiple builds with different item sets all of which are better at one thing and worse at another while resistance imunities did at times make D2 annoying it also forced you to go down routes outside of the ideal and this was good.
So what do u guys think, do u think rifts + bounties are enough or do u agree that there needs to be more viable gameplay options and things that make different runs either very difficult or impossible unless you mix up your build a little?
I also think Rifts are looking great, and I think all of the things that I would recommend changing for them are just what they were planning for the Nephalem Trials. So, I was disappointed to see that delayed/scrapped.
One thing I've never really understood is the attachment to "builds" in D2. I mean, for most of them, all you did was pick the same 1-point wonders and then 2 or 3 main skills to max out. What's the difference between a Meteorb sorc and a Lit sorc? One casts Meteor and Frozen Orb, the other casts Chain Lightning. Both take one point in Warmth, Static Field, Teleport, and Thunderstorm, and the rest just goes into pre-reqs and synergies you never cast. You have to make a whole new character just so you can cast Chain Lightning instead of Frozen Orb. How is that better than simply going to town, opening your skill menu, and switching one for the other?
I'll grant you that there aren't many good skill builds in D3, at least in terms of what is most efficient. But even in the current version of the game, there are plenty of viable ways to build your character. Throw in all the skill changes and legendary affixes coming in the xpack, and there will be more than enough variety. There will always be room for improvement for sure, but they are making great strides in getting this game where it needs to be.
Have you actually played much of the beta or even watched streams? RoS is looking fantastic.
Right off the bat...elemental immunitites in Hell D2 wasn't just "annoying". And how exactly did it encourage people to go down routes outside of the ideal? It was a solid brick wall, and if you didn't take it into account, in very specific ways, or simply teamed up so that other people filled in the gaps, you were straight up SOL. Pure and simple. I do think that in D3 they should add some kind of elemental resistances, but D2 had immunities that weren't just annoying, they were a royal pain in the ass that pigeonholed a lot of specialty builds.
That being said, I think you're missing the point of what Bounties are trying to accomplish.
You say that there were lots of different types of runs. With Bounties, you get most of those things accomplished all at once. Honestly, if the D2 devs designed that game so that certain bosses and areas were better or worse for certain farming, that'd be pretty crummy. I mean, boss runs sucked eventually, as people abused them royally for item drops. The thing tha makes it a "game" is that you're conquering challenges for great reward. But when people get to high enough levels of strength, they're running "Mephy" repeatedly, over and over and over, making it look like too easy, and just abusing the high drop rates. It's no longer a game, it's just "ooh, what kinda great stuff do I get today? What presents did Grandpa Blizzard bring me?"
Honestly, boss runs in the past are no wonder why D2 players were so spoiled when it comes to D3 drop rates. Every log-in was just more and more and more and more and more uniques and exceptional weapons and sets and runes and gems and gold just raining from the sky.
In D3, you have to work for it. Well...at least once the AH goes away, you'll have to work for it, ;-)
Anyway, Bounties are meant to offer both randomization AND reward. From what I've been hearing, high levels of Torment may end up being harder than Inferno MP10, and if that's the case, WITHOUT Life Steal? That's going to be something to truly conquer and work toward.
You say there should be different builds that are better or worse for some cases than others. How is that not going to happen in the expansion/updates? Rifts look like they'll have huge density, which means AoE and Crowd Control would be better. Regular areas might be less dense (a bit denser than the beta would be nice, though), so single target skills might be better for taking down the Bounty Targets faster. Plus, both of those things can be boosted in strength with the right gear. Single target skills can be enhanced by items with splash damage affixes. Legendary effects can change an entire build, and depending on what you saved, you can have almost any build you want at a moment's notice.
In the past, it would've been nice if certain areas were specifically better or worse for farming certain items, but Bounty rewards in the form of Horadric Caches and Blood Shards offer plenty of rewards, just in different ways. You aren't just farming one thing at any one time, you're basically farming everything all at once. It's a matter of what you choose to pursue. Crafting? More killing? Enchanting? Gambling? XP in the Rifts?
Bottom line...farming specific spots for specific things is a little archaic and old-fashioned. Bounties seem very productive. They offer an incredibly wide variety of possible rewards, and the choice is up to the player mainly in what to pursue, rather than what bosses or areas to bulldoze.
In a strange way...it almost seems like Blizzard is trying to eliminate the concept of "farming", and instead make the game a lot more organic. If it's too easy? Crank up the difficulty. With some of the system and gameplay changes, bulldozing Torment VI isn't going to be a cakewalk. Yes, I think some streamers have been doing it, but remember...beta...higher drop rates of legendaries...and enemies/skills need tuning.
And don't forget that the streamers represent the top 1% of the population. This beta is great for showing off the new features, but you absolutely can't use this as an exact reference for how long it will take to "finish" the game.
Plus, many of the streamers are starting the RoS beta with PTR characters copied from their regular accounts. Which means, they're already starting with heavy duty gear sets AND a pretty nice amount of Paragon Points to play with.
Speaking of, I was watching some of the streams and there didn't seem to be a cost on respecing Paragon Points. That's gotta be changing. :-)
I would hate having a cost to respec paragon points. What if I find a really great build changing weapon and want to move around my points to better suit this new build? I don't want to drop mass amounts of gold or some rare reagent to do so. If they make the cost small what would be the point of it besides a mild annoyance?
If you find a really great build changing weapon, and want to move around your points to better suit the build...then save up the gold to respec! :-) Like you just said, if the cost is too small, then it's just an annoyance. Agreed, though, if the amount is too big, it'll be too much of an undertaking perhaps to bother with all that much...
But then again, items don't have anything more than a level and class requirement to be able to equip them. In games like D2 or PoE, you have to have a certain amount of particular stats to equip certain things, which makes it more "realistic," but I think this meets the midpoint perfectly. It ensures that people still have things to work toward, while also ensuring that people can't respec after every enemy encounter. "Ooh, these elites have Orbiter and Frozen Pulse, I'm gonna need more All Res, lemme just respec."
In fact, I'd be willing to bet that their decision to remove the cooldown on skill changing has something to do with Paragon Points having a cost to respec. You can change skills freely, but if you have a certain point spec that optimizes the use of particular legendaries, or even a particular set, in order to use something new, you'll have to save up and make the choice.
Like I said, I do think there's an amount that's "too much" as a cost to respec, but...I definitely think it's a good idea to apply a cost so that people aren't respecing points every couple yards of travel.
I agree on a nice middle ground, and I wouldn't want to be changing points every time I run into an elite. I think moving the cool down to something like "have to be out of combat for x minutes" or "enemies cannot be within x amount of yards" would work. Of course being in town has no cool down. If builds and points really do revolve around items and respecs do cost gold it would serve as a gold sink ( as long as they keep in mind the average players amount of gold)
It won't, huh?
So, you don't think there's even a snowball's chance in hell that there's at least some people will (try to) max out particular stats in some of their tabs, then find items that boost those same stats, and want to change them?
Let's say someone's gear heading into the new patch gives them 70k Life. Right now, that's a pretty damn decent amount. So instead of tossing Paragon Points into Life%, they toss it into All Res to start out, to make up the difference. They put all their points into All Res, then they find a couple Legendaries that would instantly raise their All Res by 200! Without damage mitigation, even with 100k Life, a character can still watch their life melt away. And in this example, if this player wants to throw those legendaries on for the added All Res, they can...but they might be sacrificing a pretty huge chunk of Life% that 200 All Res may not make up the difference for. Meaning, they'd probably feel a bit better being able to reallocate.
But if there's a significant cost to respec...their best bet might be to hold onto those legendaries, stash 'em, save up, and respec when they're in a better place.
Given how much more defensive this game will be going into the new patch, especially without Life Steal to completely throw off the curve, I happen to think this COULD lead to a pretty critical decision. Or else, even if it's not critical...like I said, it still might mean holding onto that item, and simply saving up the gold or materials or whatever the cost is until the player can respec and redistribute their points to a place they're comfortable with.
Ultimately, Paragon Points may not make a massive difference until more have been allocated. However, if it at least causes people to 1) rethink gear choices, 2) think over where points should go, or 3) make decisions about battle based on either of those? I think Paragon 2.0 will have done Diablo 3 a great service.
I agree and look forward to it. There is one minor problem(if you can even call it that) which is once you've reached the paragon level required to max every category.
And then Rifts and Bounties don't offer enough randomization...? <_< mind is succesfuly blown...
Well of course, this opinion is coming from a guy who's mindset is entirely loot-centric, a mindset completely opposed to grinding of any kind. You've said that many times in this forum...that if it weren't for loot, D3 would feel like God of War, and that thought just is anathema to you. Which is fine, I respect that. I'm not saying that to discredit you in any way. I'm simply pointing that out because, naturally, grinding Paragon XP isn't going to be where you're going to prefer playing. You'll want the loot.
But part of what Paragon 2.0 is supposed to accomplish is to provide a bit of point allocating depth, without making it entirely too overcomplicated. D2 was great because it had a simple stat and skill system, but players did a lot with it and made a lot of cool builds. The D3 expansion will end up being largely the same as that. Simple systems, but players will do a lot with them.
So truthfully, I think you're underestimating how much impact Paragon Levels could have, along with overestimating how much time it'll take people to reach higher points.
Immunities were horrible. They were some mechanic that you could not conquer unless you had one of a handful of skills/items. All they were successful at were setting up a binary choice: "do you have item X, Y, or Z, or skill A, B, C?" If you passed that check you could kill them, otherwise you couldn't.
People often cite skills like Spirit Walk as bad because they seem pretty mandatory. Why you'd want to re-introduce things that basically create more mandatory choices in gear/abilities is beyond me.
I fail to see how using a tiny portion of the game for exceptionally-repetitive activities (all Baal, Meph, Pindle runs were sub-5 minute activities that involved no skill, no brain power, and minimal randomization) is better than bounties in any way possible. At least the D3 team is trying to re-use as much of the leveling experience for farming as possible.
Also gold finding runs? LOL. Sorry for laughing at you, but do you know how badly-received it would be if Blizzard went out of their way to make something like that viable? They'd get flamed from here to Sunday and back again, and rightfully so, because it's such a bad, old, outdated idea.
Ty sir, this stops me from writing my own wall of text. +1 instead!
IF you had a PC that didn't lag during the death-quake! (or the item snipe mod).
More like... streamers represent a tinnnnnnny bit of the population..... lol just because someone streams.... doesn't net them top 1%.....
Im hoping for the best in this exp, they have time to change things like bounties and rifts so let wait and see =P