So, I may not be the first to post this idea, but I've never seen it before so I'm gonna go ahead and share it. If it has been discussed before, feel free to delete it.
I was looking through some articles on the Diablo wiki and elsewhere, and came back across that screen shot of a work-in-progress model of Diablo from the cinematic trailer. The little blurb accompanying it noted it's feminine shape, and made an offhand comment suggesting Diablo's soulstone had been driven into the head of a woman.
For a while now I had been wondering why exactly Leah had been introduced--Deckard Cain had served her apparent role well enough in the past, why add a character needlessly? Some people have already speculated that Cain will die at some point during Diablo 3, and therefore Leah is the heir to his role as a guide.
But what if she is in fact going to be possessed by Diablo (or a combination of the three prime evils, as some have suggested), and become his last physical manifestation in Sanctuary? She may in fact even be the one to kill Cain, having been corrupted, before she finally transforms into this iteration of Diablo.
She is known to have some kind of supernatural power, as she is seen having a vision of the impending meteor strike in the trailer. Tal Rasha made a powerful body for Baal in LOD, making him more formidable than his brothers that possessed more ordinary human hosts. And we've seen that Diablo's physical appearance alters based on the body he possesses, his form being skinnier and more upright in the body of the prince in Diablo 1, but more hulking and bestial in Diablo 2 after possessing a powerful warrior.
I don't have a shred of proof for any of this, obviously, but given Leah's somewhat mysterious role in this coming installment in the series--and the feminine form of that model--it seems at least possible. And for the reasons above, it makes a strange sort of sense in my brain.
Maybe you guys disagree, I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts. :blink:
Here is the image by the way:
There are better ones, but I can't find them, if someone else can please post!
That would be interesting if he took her. Those hips do have feminine qualities.
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-Winged
I wouldn't say that Leah's presence in any way supports the notion that she has to be possessed. It fits into the theory nicely, but it doesn't provide any additional support for it beyond being a necessiry for the theory to work at all.
As for possession, there's no point in doing that. The brothers possessed mortal bodies in D1&D2 because they were trapped in the soulstones. True, the stones weren't the perfect prisons Tyrael had thought them to be, but they still largely contained the Three. Possession was necessary until such a time when they had regained proper strength to shed themselves of their human bodies (as is seen by Diablo duirng the cinematic in D3).
Furthermore, Baal was more powerful than his brothers in that state due to the knowledge that Tal Rasha possessed, but it's unlikely there's additional benefit if we compare it to the full force of a prime evil unhindered by prolonged weakness inside of a soulstone. In other words, prime evil + human =! more powerful entity.
In fact, the whole possession mechanic isn't necessary in any way now that the soulstones are out of the picture. If Diablo is going to revisit Sanctuary, there seems to be no reason for him to possess anything. I suppose there could be something related to bringing him back to life or some such (if he is even dead to begin with), but if that's the case then we're treading in waters wholly unexplored by the lore so far, and anyone's idea is as good as another.
That being said, I do agree the shape is feminine.
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You make good points, some of which had occurred to me.
While the Worldstone being destroyed means that Diablo could potentially visit Sanctuary in full force without a host, consider that the Worldstone was meant as a dampener for the innate power of the Nephalem. With it gone, humans may once again be (or have the potential to be) the powerful creatures they were, which threatened to be more powerful than Demons or Angels either one.
So, he may in fact WANT to possess someone rather than remaining in his original form, so as to harness the powers of the Nephalem to make himself stronger. I don't necessarily agree that this possession does not add to his power. Speculation though.
So, he may in fact WANT to possess someone rather than remaining in his original form, so as to harness the powers of the Nephalem to make himself stronger. I don't necessarily agree that this possession does not add to his power. Speculation though.
Possibly I guess. Truth be told, the only possession we've seen so far is that done by the soulstones, and some in the Sin War novels.
The most notable of those is of Lilith in Scales of the Serpent. In that case, which more accurately depicts the theoretical scenario we're talking about here, she doesn't seem to actually benefit from it.
Be that as it may however, there's still a long way between killing a few demons and besting Diablo. That's how the nephalem potential should be interpreted. It doesn't mean that every human will be able to beat Diablo, it just means that every human has the potential to beat your average demon grunt. Which is an impressive compared to what a normal human can do without powers.
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I believe i read in the old Diablo 1 manual about the Soulstones, that the Prime Evils used to posess humans in the area to avoid being captured (something to do with the human soul inside that same body i think) and then fled. It also said it was sad that the Horadrim had to kill those humans to try and capture Diablo & friends in the soulstones.
I'm not quite sure if they kept that part for the lore, though.
The main thing that I keep coming back to with this is that, even though everything is completely speculation, it seems unlikely that Diablo's design would be so feminine without reason. Blizzard has really talented artists working for them, who look at every detail when designing a creature or character to make sure it's sending the right message.
The message with Diablo, the more closely you look at the model, seems to be very clearly "female."
Leah I give as the reason for the femininity because she must be pretty damn important to show up in the Cinematic trailer in such a prominent role. In comparison, Tychus Findlay in Starcraft 2 was shown in the reveal trailer, and (without spoiling anything) he has a VERY important role in the finale.
The rest is justification, though I find it to be plausable (admittedly, with some holes that would need to be filled).
It doesn't seem too hard to possess someone. One of the new mobs in D3 is a possessed vessel or something isn't it?
Anyway, dunno if anyone remembers this but it seems like the people of Kurast were possessed.
Mephisto finally managed to overcome the powers of the Soulstone that imprisoned him enough to influence and corrupt the local priesthood, known as the Zakarum. The Demon then had the priests work spells to shatter the Soulstone into seven shards, breaking the mystic seal and freeing the Lord of Hatred. Mephisto drove the six smaller shards into the left palms of six Zakarum archbishops who were then charged with bringing him nourishment in the form of human sacrifices while running their temple.
It doesn't say possessed but they were corrupted, and I'm sure after the pieces of the soulstone were implanted they were beyond redemption. If you remember we fight then before mephisto. Maffer Dragonhand and the others. The whole left side of their body is transformed into a demonic state.
Diablo also did some posessing but that seems connected to the soulstone fragments as well:
When Leoric set up court in the abandoned Monastery, Lazarus was lured into the monastery's depths by Diablo, where Lazarus proceeded to shatter the soulstone that imprisoned the Prime Evil. After Diablo failed to fully possess Leoric himself, Lazarus brought the King's son, Albrecht, into the labyrinth to serve as the mortal host for the Lord of Terror.
Most of the possession seems to be linked with the shards. Phrozen is right though about Lilith's possession, but it seemed more of a spiritual thing and not a whole possession. No transformation or anything.
I hadn't seen your thread before Daemaro, but you make some excellent points, and all those soulstone fragments left unaccounted for may well make possession with physical manifestations possible.
Still circumstantial evidence, but I'll take what I can get :laugh:
Edit: Also, I was rereading your post about Nephalem potential Phrozen, and I thought I'd mention again there seems to be evidence that Leah is in some way gifted. We see in the trailer that she seems to have a vision about the future meteor impact. So while a typical Nephalem might only be powerful in comparison to a demon grunt, she might in fact be on a much higher level, like Bul Kathos or Rathma.
Even MORE ridiculously speculative, admittedly, but clearly she's no ordinary woman.
Something else to think about if you'll entertain the idea, the worldstone is commonly accepted as the source of the soulstones. The worldstone was corrupted by baals demonic taint. Then it was shattered into thousands of pieces that now presumably lie around arreat crater. :thumbsup:
I think we're all possibly forgetting something. Leah was an orphan. Who were her parents? Where did they originate from? Perhaps she inherited some jewelry from her mother that was fashioned from worldstone fragments or even soulstone.
I personally don't think she's possessed or corrupted, at least there is no evidence of it, but there are some good things to speculate about because a lot is unknown about her.
Diablo is an old-school DnD-type game; therefore, the entire game is very male-centric. I think this would be an interesting development and would lead to a more unique storyline, but, as others have pointed out, there are other things to account for. Interesting theory, though. +1 for that.
I personally don't think she's possessed or corrupted
Not yet :whistling:
Also, yeah, I think it would be an interesting choice, making the villain female, if only because it's so uncommon. I mean, technically it would still be Diablo, a big genderless evil dude--but it's sorta taken for granted that he will take on a masculine physical form when, logically, there's not real reason for him to
I believe i read in the old Diablo 1 manual about the Soulstones, that the Prime Evils used to posess humans in the area to avoid being captured (something to do with the human soul inside that same body i think) and then fled. It also said it was sad that the Horadrim had to kill those humans to try and capture Diablo & friends in the soulstones.
I'm not quite sure if they kept that part for the lore, though.
Ah yes. As stated in the D1 manual, the soulstones could only be used on spirits that did not possess a physical body, leading the Three to continually possess new humans. While that may be true, it requires that the Three did not have physical bodies when they were exiled.
I'm not quite sure that part still applies the same way. It is continuously stated in the Sin War novels that powerful demons can take whichever form they choose to. I find it hard to believe that a prime evil would not be able to manifest physically if he so chose to unless greatly weakened. And granted, that may have been true when they were first exiled, but Diablo was caught some fifty years after that. In that time he would definitely been able to recuperate strength.
Now what I find more likely is this. The Three obviously wanted to use their time during exile to convert the humans in Sanctuary into servants of the Burning Hells. Now the Three are no strangers to subtlety, and remaining hidden is always a prudent strategy. Possessing humans was simply a good thing to do: it allowed them to hide in a possibly weakened state when they first arrived in Sanctuary, it allowed them instant access to large power bases among humans and it also allowed them to stay hidden from anyone looking for them, including the Horadrim.
Going full force Prime Evil on the world migh have been cooler, but wreaking havoc isn't very effective if your intent is to convert a world and not destroy it.
Blizzard has really talented artists working for them, who look at every detail when designing a creature or character to make sure it's sending the right message.
Leah I give as the reason for the femininity because she must be pretty damn important to show up in the Cinematic trailer in such a prominent role. In comparison, Tychus Findlay in Starcraft 2 was shown in the reveal trailer, and (without spoiling anything) he has a VERY important role in the finale.
That's a good point, though it doesn't say how she'll be involved in the story.
Mephisto drove the six smaller shards into the left palms of six Zakarum archbishops who were then charged with bringing him nourishment in the form of human sacrifices while running their temple.
And that part has still been removed from Arreat Summit. It's a retcon I'd say.
Most of the possession seems to be linked with the shards. Phrozen is right though about Lilith's possession, but it seemed more of a spiritual thing and not a whole possession. No transformation or anything.
Spiritual? Lilith literally jumps into Serenthia's body, and when she's driven out she climbs out of her victom's mouth.
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Blizzard has really talented artists working for them, who look at every detail when designing a creature or character to make sure it's sending the right message.
They also reiterate everything
Yes, but they don't tend to re-do cinematics :tongue:
Leah I give as the reason for the femininity because she must be pretty damn important to show up in the Cinematic trailer in such a prominent role. In comparison, Tychus Findlay in Starcraft 2 was shown in the reveal trailer, and (without spoiling anything) he has a VERY important role in the finale.
That's a good point, though it doesn't say how she'll be involved in the story.
Yes, but they don't tend to re-do cinematics :tongue:
Also true, but we didn't see no waist in the cinematic. Now I suppose the entire cinematic could have been done when they released the trailer, but somehow I doubt that's the case.
What I mean is, if no cinematic had been done showing Diablo's waist at that point, it could have been reiterated. Or the lower body might not even have been finished for all we know? :whistling:
I see what you're saying though. And if this is the case, there had better be a damn good reason forcing Diablo to possess anyone.
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I was looking through some articles on the Diablo wiki and elsewhere, and came back across that screen shot of a work-in-progress model of Diablo from the cinematic trailer. The little blurb accompanying it noted it's feminine shape, and made an offhand comment suggesting Diablo's soulstone had been driven into the head of a woman.
For a while now I had been wondering why exactly Leah had been introduced--Deckard Cain had served her apparent role well enough in the past, why add a character needlessly? Some people have already speculated that Cain will die at some point during Diablo 3, and therefore Leah is the heir to his role as a guide.
But what if she is in fact going to be possessed by Diablo (or a combination of the three prime evils, as some have suggested), and become his last physical manifestation in Sanctuary? She may in fact even be the one to kill Cain, having been corrupted, before she finally transforms into this iteration of Diablo.
She is known to have some kind of supernatural power, as she is seen having a vision of the impending meteor strike in the trailer. Tal Rasha made a powerful body for Baal in LOD, making him more formidable than his brothers that possessed more ordinary human hosts. And we've seen that Diablo's physical appearance alters based on the body he possesses, his form being skinnier and more upright in the body of the prince in Diablo 1, but more hulking and bestial in Diablo 2 after possessing a powerful warrior.
I don't have a shred of proof for any of this, obviously, but given Leah's somewhat mysterious role in this coming installment in the series--and the feminine form of that model--it seems at least possible. And for the reasons above, it makes a strange sort of sense in my brain.
Maybe you guys disagree, I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts. :blink:
Here is the image by the way:
There are better ones, but I can't find them, if someone else can please post!
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
As for possession, there's no point in doing that. The brothers possessed mortal bodies in D1&D2 because they were trapped in the soulstones. True, the stones weren't the perfect prisons Tyrael had thought them to be, but they still largely contained the Three. Possession was necessary until such a time when they had regained proper strength to shed themselves of their human bodies (as is seen by Diablo duirng the cinematic in D3).
Furthermore, Baal was more powerful than his brothers in that state due to the knowledge that Tal Rasha possessed, but it's unlikely there's additional benefit if we compare it to the full force of a prime evil unhindered by prolonged weakness inside of a soulstone. In other words, prime evil + human =! more powerful entity.
In fact, the whole possession mechanic isn't necessary in any way now that the soulstones are out of the picture. If Diablo is going to revisit Sanctuary, there seems to be no reason for him to possess anything. I suppose there could be something related to bringing him back to life or some such (if he is even dead to begin with), but if that's the case then we're treading in waters wholly unexplored by the lore so far, and anyone's idea is as good as another.
That being said, I do agree the shape is feminine.
While the Worldstone being destroyed means that Diablo could potentially visit Sanctuary in full force without a host, consider that the Worldstone was meant as a dampener for the innate power of the Nephalem. With it gone, humans may once again be (or have the potential to be) the powerful creatures they were, which threatened to be more powerful than Demons or Angels either one.
So, he may in fact WANT to possess someone rather than remaining in his original form, so as to harness the powers of the Nephalem to make himself stronger. I don't necessarily agree that this possession does not add to his power. Speculation though.
The most notable of those is of Lilith in Scales of the Serpent. In that case, which more accurately depicts the theoretical scenario we're talking about here, she doesn't seem to actually benefit from it.
Be that as it may however, there's still a long way between killing a few demons and besting Diablo. That's how the nephalem potential should be interpreted. It doesn't mean that every human will be able to beat Diablo, it just means that every human has the potential to beat your average demon grunt. Which is an impressive compared to what a normal human can do without powers.
I'm not quite sure if they kept that part for the lore, though.
The message with Diablo, the more closely you look at the model, seems to be very clearly "female."
Leah I give as the reason for the femininity because she must be pretty damn important to show up in the Cinematic trailer in such a prominent role. In comparison, Tychus Findlay in Starcraft 2 was shown in the reveal trailer, and (without spoiling anything) he has a VERY important role in the finale.
The rest is justification, though I find it to be plausable (admittedly, with some holes that would need to be filled).
Anyway, dunno if anyone remembers this but it seems like the people of Kurast were possessed.
It doesn't say possessed but they were corrupted, and I'm sure after the pieces of the soulstone were implanted they were beyond redemption. If you remember we fight then before mephisto. Maffer Dragonhand and the others. The whole left side of their body is transformed into a demonic state.
Diablo also did some posessing but that seems connected to the soulstone fragments as well:
Most of the possession seems to be linked with the shards. Phrozen is right though about Lilith's possession, but it seemed more of a spiritual thing and not a whole possession. No transformation or anything.
It's my firm belief though that the soulstones can be used to empower and taint humans with demonic energies. Interestingly enough all three soulstones were shattered and pieces aren't wholly accounted for.
Still circumstantial evidence, but I'll take what I can get :laugh:
Edit: Also, I was rereading your post about Nephalem potential Phrozen, and I thought I'd mention again there seems to be evidence that Leah is in some way gifted. We see in the trailer that she seems to have a vision about the future meteor impact. So while a typical Nephalem might only be powerful in comparison to a demon grunt, she might in fact be on a much higher level, like Bul Kathos or Rathma.
Even MORE ridiculously speculative, admittedly, but clearly she's no ordinary woman.
I think we're all possibly forgetting something. Leah was an orphan. Who were her parents? Where did they originate from? Perhaps she inherited some jewelry from her mother that was fashioned from worldstone fragments or even soulstone.
I personally don't think she's possessed or corrupted, at least there is no evidence of it, but there are some good things to speculate about because a lot is unknown about her.
Not yet :whistling:
Also, yeah, I think it would be an interesting choice, making the villain female, if only because it's so uncommon. I mean, technically it would still be Diablo, a big genderless evil dude--but it's sorta taken for granted that he will take on a masculine physical form when, logically, there's not real reason for him to
I'm not quite sure that part still applies the same way. It is continuously stated in the Sin War novels that powerful demons can take whichever form they choose to. I find it hard to believe that a prime evil would not be able to manifest physically if he so chose to unless greatly weakened. And granted, that may have been true when they were first exiled, but Diablo was caught some fifty years after that. In that time he would definitely been able to recuperate strength.
Now what I find more likely is this. The Three obviously wanted to use their time during exile to convert the humans in Sanctuary into servants of the Burning Hells. Now the Three are no strangers to subtlety, and remaining hidden is always a prudent strategy. Possessing humans was simply a good thing to do: it allowed them to hide in a possibly weakened state when they first arrived in Sanctuary, it allowed them instant access to large power bases among humans and it also allowed them to stay hidden from anyone looking for them, including the Horadrim.
Going full force Prime Evil on the world migh have been cooler, but wreaking havoc isn't very effective if your intent is to convert a world and not destroy it.
They also reiterate everything
That's a good point, though it doesn't say how she'll be involved in the story.
And that part has still been removed from Arreat Summit. It's a retcon I'd say.
Spiritual? Lilith literally jumps into Serenthia's body, and when she's driven out she climbs out of her victom's mouth.
This is why Diablo is the best Blizzard franchise.
Yes, but they don't tend to re-do cinematics :tongue:
True fact.
That's pretty hardcore.
What I mean is, if no cinematic had been done showing Diablo's waist at that point, it could have been reiterated. Or the lower body might not even have been finished for all we know? :whistling:
I see what you're saying though. And if this is the case, there had better be a damn good reason forcing Diablo to possess anyone.
You're right. I had forgotten that part. For some reason I was thinking it wasn't physical. It's been a year or so since I read the books.
I still think they're covering up facts rather than retconning with the Zakarum bishops though. :biggrin: Can't imagine why'd they retcon that.