Ever since Blizzard deemed DHs were too OP after launch cause they were doing stuff like farming Act 4 and ponies while still in blues the class has received nothing but nerf after nerf. Even before the build diversity patch DHs were coming out with cool builds that were different from the norm like gas grenades and trap tank specs that worked similar to WW/CM wiz and they stayed alive by stacking LoH. Then Blizz nerfed all DH proc coefficients making those tank specs worthless. I have the achivment for getting every class to 60 twice but my DH just has never made it past 40 because when I compare them to other classes I just dont see a single thing they are better at. I really want to play one but I feel I will have to spend far more gold gearing one out just to be abel to do what other classes can do with a lot less.
Monks are now hands down the fastest low MP speed farmers using TR and da Bell to 1 shot elites. Doesnt take much gold to get started either. Also TR can be used very efficiently when combined with Bell even on higher MPs like 5/6 just because the Bell is silly damage. Id like to see a Strafe DH do MP 5 or 6, which I assumed was their speed farming build. Oh forgot to mention that 30% built damage reduction, an AoE blind, and a 4 second invuln bubble.
Wiz are a far better ranged class and dont even need that much gear. I only spent 150 mil on my CM/WW wiz and I leveled straight through Inferno on MP7 and it was a joke. 2.54 APS, 50% crit chance, 600-700 resists, and 1400 LoH meant I couldnt die. Sure I died a few times if I get silly affixes like Arcane, Vortex, Molten and couldnt get away cause teleport was on CD. But that was the only rason I did, because teleport was on CD. I d like to see a DH spend only 150 mil and faceroll MP7 from AcI through Diablo while only dying a handful of times. Also Archon is probably as expensive to gear out as a very good DH but has a ton more survivablity because of the boost to all resists and armor via one of your armor buffs as well as Archon itself.
Even WDs can speed farm faster than DHs. WDs can stack 3 movement increase abilities in Jaunt, Chicken, and Stalker. They also have a massive damage ability in Bears that makes great use of LS and Acid Cloud makes great use of LoH. Also their 4 piece set bonus combined with 20+ pick up radius and Gruesome feast means unlimited mana and makes Legacy Nats look like a pile of brimestones.
Barbs...Dont even really have to go there. WW and HoTA blow away every single DH build and again cheaper to gear out but can still do high MPs. Also like monks 30% damage reduction. Oh yea that and their IK set has all kinds of further damage reduction. Oh and if they want they can ignore LS on weapons since they get 6% from IK belt and a passive so they can ignore overpriced LS weapons and get ones with much high damage. Or they can just stack up to 12% LS if super rich and never die.
So what exactly do Demon Hunters have that other classes dont? Who can they outperform without having to spend a billion gold on gear? Like I said in my opening paragraph I have really enjoyed leveling my DH but I just see no point in getting on to 60 and spending a lot of gold gearing her out when every other class is better.
exactly my opinion
sitting on 320k DH and its just boring to play it.. so many things to take care into account what i NEVER ever do on my barb or wiz..
i made wiz like a week back, i spend even shitload less on him.. got archon gear with 300k + dps and i wank around with LS on elites in face while melting them so damn fast.. not to mention funny trash raping .. and CM.. god, even more retarded.. meteor spam while freezing .. got like 140k dps in that gear but it feels like 300 on that DH but as u said > u cant die!
and barb.. hota + rend + insanity = rofl
i feel the pain u described.. DH is and always will be my main char.. yet he is only lvl 38 while i had fun on barb and he's 72 now... and with such an ease.. wiz is 20 now in a week or some..
i rarely go on DH tho he does reward in 1 thing: challenge ! thats something we miss on other classes... simple as that..
i made wiz like a week back, i spend even shitload less on him.. got archon gear with 300k + dps and i wank around with LS on elites in face while melting them so damn fast.. not to mention funny trash raping .. and CM.. god, even more retarded.. meteor spam while freezing .. got like 140k dps in that gear but it feels like 300 on that DH but as u said > u cant die!
Yea with CM/WW I was farming MP10 crypt of the ancients the same day I hit 60 and got to paragon 10 the first night. It was just a joke and I only had 115k DPS. With teleport wormhole I just kited the elite around till all the trash was dead then lead him down the ramp to the bottom half, killed the trash down there, and ported back to the top and gated out. Never came close to dying with 1400 LoH. Was clearing that place in around 1:30 with only 150 mil in gear. I looked at some of the DHs doing that place in a post on the official forums and they have like 1400 DPS dual socket Manticores that with the gems probably cost as much as 7-8 pieces of my gear.
But that crap hurt my fingers and wrist so making a TR/Bell monk now.
My main is also demon hunter, I use a strafe build for farming but out of all the classes they farm the slowest.
DHs also take the most skill of all the classes to use in comparison, not because they are more specialized but because they are so damn gimp at the moment. Also i'm part of the very few who can farm MP10 without Gloom. I hate that skill because every DH uses it almost without exception but its not their fault that it is the only skill that can give them survivability on the same level as other classes.
exactly my opinion
sitting on 320k DH and its just boring to play it.. so many things to take care into account what i NEVER ever do on my barb or wiz..
So.... DH is boring because you actually have to use your brain a bit?
I am playing a hardcore DH atm, and so far it takes the most "skill" to survive out of the classes i have played in hardcore, you have to be focused (which i enjoy).
i made wiz like a week back, i spend even shitload less on him.. got archon gear with 300k + dps and i wank around with LS on elites in face while melting them so damn fast.. not to mention funny trash raping .. and CM.. god, even more retarded.. meteor spam while freezing .. got like 140k dps in that gear but it feels like 300 on that DH but as u said > u cant die!
Yea with CM/WW I was farming MP10 crypt of the ancients the same day I hit 60 and got to paragon 10 the first night. It was just a joke and I only had 115k DPS. With teleport wormhole I just kited the elite around till all the trash was dead then lead him down the ramp to the bottom half, killed the trash down there, and ported back to the top and gated out. Never came close to dying with 1400 LoH. Was clearing that place in around 1:30 with only 150 mil in gear. I looked at some of the DHs doing that place in a post on the official forums and they have like 1400 DPS dual socket Manticores that with the gems probably cost as much as 7-8 pieces of my gear.
But that crap hurt my fingers and wrist so making a TR/Bell monk now.
if u have some decent mouse u can make macro sequence [ like press 123123213 ] .. i know roccat, logitech and rat mouse have nice drivers [ had em all ] so that will make ur life easier and
Monks are now hands down the fastest low MP speed farmers using TR and da Bell to 1 shot elites. Doesnt take much gold to get started either. Also TR can be used very efficiently when combined with Bell even on higher MPs like 5/6 just because the Bell is silly damage. Id like to see a Strafe DH do MP 5 or 6, which I assumed was their speed farming build. Oh forgot to mention that 30% built damage reduction, an AoE blind, and a 4 second invuln bubble.
DH is still the fastest LOW MP farming class. It was before, and still is, simply because of superior mobility.
The issue with DH is that the abilities scale poorly, which means by the time you get to around MP2 even in good gear, your efficiency basically falls behind AND gets further behind as MP goes higher.
DH is still the fastest LOW MP farming class. It was before, and still is, simply because of superior mobility.
How? The highest mobility you gain is vault + reduced cost rune and tactical advantage, right? I do runs with a friend regularly, and my Monk with TR and FF still outruns him with TA active (both 24% item ms, of course), the vaulting itself makes him keep up, but he still has to stop to kill trash, i just run by.
Well, if he uses strafe, he doesn't need to stop to kill mobs. Like here, I was doing Alkaizer run in just a bit over 5 minutes, and gear isn;t exactly cutting edge stuff at that time:
I'm wearing a legacy set, which lets me use ToC. Without legacy dps would be significantly higher, and I wouldn't even need ToC, which more or less balances out on MP0 exp/hour. The thing with non-legacy DH is that they lose speed in most groups, because the need to crit the mobs to regain disc (nightstalker passive). So if someone else kills too many of the mobs, they could end up running out of disc to constantly vault.
Even then i find it incredibly difficult to see a monk actually outrunning a DH on MP0. Monks shouldn't be out-running DH until like MP2-3+
exactly my opinion
sitting on 320k DH and its just boring to play it.. so many things to take care into account what i NEVER ever do on my barb or wiz..
So.... DH is boring because you actually have to use your brain a bit?
I am playing a hardcore DH atm, and so far it takes the most "skill" to survive out of the classes i have played in hardcore, you have to be focused (which i enjoy).
there's a difference between boring and playing it when im damn tired
in any game i always pick a class that need managment [warlock in wow for instance, was demo lock for last 7 years while ppl hated it and i was damn good at it ^^ ]
my point is that sometimes i wanna relax and click mouse and melt stuff... with my barb and wiz i can do that with much worse gear than i use on my DH and thats what i miss a bit.. and i talk about same MP not lowering it to do that...
dont get me wrong, i love DH, its my main chick on screen but we might need a buff.. maybe not in dmg but in resource changes... as someone mentioned in this post already, cluster is our 'bears' and 'hota' but it just cost 2 much... lowering it on 30 or 25 hatred might fix a lot for dh gameplay... it would feel like good DPS class to have in party .. as i said, having 350~k dps on my DH in my eyes is like 150k CM wiz ... kinda strange feeling, maybe subjective but thats the point anyway
beside that i would like a bit more dodge from dexterity..
Quitted a plvl 47 barb because is totally boring... I fall asleep during whirlwind, nothing to think, just stand there and move your wrist. On the other hand, my DH is slower at farming that my barb but it takes more focus to survive and I love that, you certainly need some skill to play it at max. Dodging fireballs like a pro is hard!
I'd just like to say that in a game on mp10 unlike other classes my dh doesn't die 90% of the time their other classes with 200 more AR than i do. With DH being effective or not is all about positioning and movement.
And i seem to switch around 5 or so builds all serving a role, all fun to play
I actually don't like to move a lot with my DH, mainly because I still feel that the Manticore is slow, even with 50% more attack speed. I like to tank.
So, on MP7~10 I (usually) stay where I am, pop all my damage reduction stuff ([Shadow Power: Gloom] + [Sentry: Guardian Turret]) granting me 50% more damage reduction and start spamming Bola Shot with Stun.
Obviously I do have to move sometimes, if an elite has some nasty affixes, like arcane (all arcanes end up below me, so I have to run).
Molten / Dessecrators are bad, but if I'm hitting and damaging the monsters than I'm getting my life back.
The real problems are arcane (and their freaking lasers) and poison. They seem to stack somehow and I can't stand on the poison spots more than 2 or 3 seconds.
Anyway, on the topic: I do have more fun with the DH than the CMWW or Archon Wiz. The resource management, the tanking and moving habilities and the looks (she is beautiful to see) are great.
If i'm tired, and just want to faceroll all the monsters, I low the MP to 0 or 1, and it's a no-brainer. Even when I only had 100K DPS.
For PvP the DH is hands down the easiest to win with. For PvE it's not as fast as other classes but in uber groups we do the most damage (sentries/spike traps). With a Scoundrel with Windforce you can farm anything- just not as fast.
Demon Hunter needs some serious buff. We've been nerfed, nerfed and nerfed since release...
But I still like playing with my DH. Tried to roll a TR Monk, got bored at paragon 13.
Barbs can Rend spam which is why they can do MP 10 Keeps 2 or Crater 2
Monks have Exploding Palm and Wave of Light which again lets them easily do MP 10 Keeps 2 or Crater 2
CM/WW will never take damage unless the player is full retard
WDs have so much Crowd Control and utility its silly.
DHs are squishy and have no hard hitting ability that lets them farm insane EXP like Barbs and Monks. 1.08 better fix that. I mean the class cant possibly get worse can it? Are they trying to make DHs worse than Witch Doctors were at launch?
Where can I spend my "Style" so I can do MP 10 like its MP 0?
You can... uh... look good while the barbs do the job ?
(disclaimer: This post and my previous one were mere joking)
<serious_mode>
Well, all the classes have pros and cons, and while I agree the DH's can use some love from Blizzard, we have on our side the fact that any of the other classes have skills like Shadow Power with 15% life recover for that matter.
I play with a DH, a Wizard and a Monk, and all of three have completely different playstyles, and while one is strong on one spec, the other is stronger in another.
Monks with TR are almost as brainless as Barbs with WW. But they are utterly boring (for me). DH's are hard to master, they are fun and there's some build diversity. Not item diversity, but this is another matter.
Although we do not hit very hard, we can set traps and span sentinels, making our effective DPS double or triple steadily over time.
So, while we cannot burst a huge amount of damage, we can do a pretty decent amount of damage over time.
I could use someone good at math to help me with this argument, though.
</serious_mode>
Monks are now hands down the fastest low MP speed farmers using TR and da Bell to 1 shot elites. Doesnt take much gold to get started either. Also TR can be used very efficiently when combined with Bell even on higher MPs like 5/6 just because the Bell is silly damage. Id like to see a Strafe DH do MP 5 or 6, which I assumed was their speed farming build. Oh forgot to mention that 30% built damage reduction, an AoE blind, and a 4 second invuln bubble.
Wiz are a far better ranged class and dont even need that much gear. I only spent 150 mil on my CM/WW wiz and I leveled straight through Inferno on MP7 and it was a joke. 2.54 APS, 50% crit chance, 600-700 resists, and 1400 LoH meant I couldnt die. Sure I died a few times if I get silly affixes like Arcane, Vortex, Molten and couldnt get away cause teleport was on CD. But that was the only rason I did, because teleport was on CD. I d like to see a DH spend only 150 mil and faceroll MP7 from AcI through Diablo while only dying a handful of times. Also Archon is probably as expensive to gear out as a very good DH but has a ton more survivablity because of the boost to all resists and armor via one of your armor buffs as well as Archon itself.
Even WDs can speed farm faster than DHs. WDs can stack 3 movement increase abilities in Jaunt, Chicken, and Stalker. They also have a massive damage ability in Bears that makes great use of LS and Acid Cloud makes great use of LoH. Also their 4 piece set bonus combined with 20+ pick up radius and Gruesome feast means unlimited mana and makes Legacy Nats look like a pile of brimestones.
Barbs...Dont even really have to go there. WW and HoTA blow away every single DH build and again cheaper to gear out but can still do high MPs. Also like monks 30% damage reduction. Oh yea that and their IK set has all kinds of further damage reduction. Oh and if they want they can ignore LS on weapons since they get 6% from IK belt and a passive so they can ignore overpriced LS weapons and get ones with much high damage. Or they can just stack up to 12% LS if super rich and never die.
So what exactly do Demon Hunters have that other classes dont? Who can they outperform without having to spend a billion gold on gear? Like I said in my opening paragraph I have really enjoyed leveling my DH but I just see no point in getting on to 60 and spending a lot of gold gearing her out when every other class is better.
sitting on 320k DH and its just boring to play it.. so many things to take care into account what i NEVER ever do on my barb or wiz..
i made wiz like a week back, i spend even shitload less on him.. got archon gear with 300k + dps and i wank around with LS on elites in face while melting them so damn fast.. not to mention funny trash raping .. and CM.. god, even more retarded.. meteor spam while freezing .. got like 140k dps in that gear but it feels like 300 on that DH but as u said > u cant die!
and barb.. hota + rend + insanity = rofl
i feel the pain u described.. DH is and always will be my main char.. yet he is only lvl 38 while i had fun on barb and he's 72 now... and with such an ease.. wiz is 20 now in a week or some..
i rarely go on DH tho he does reward in 1 thing: challenge ! thats something we miss on other classes... simple as that..
Yea with CM/WW I was farming MP10 crypt of the ancients the same day I hit 60 and got to paragon 10 the first night. It was just a joke and I only had 115k DPS. With teleport wormhole I just kited the elite around till all the trash was dead then lead him down the ramp to the bottom half, killed the trash down there, and ported back to the top and gated out. Never came close to dying with 1400 LoH. Was clearing that place in around 1:30 with only 150 mil in gear. I looked at some of the DHs doing that place in a post on the official forums and they have like 1400 DPS dual socket Manticores that with the gems probably cost as much as 7-8 pieces of my gear.
But that crap hurt my fingers and wrist so making a TR/Bell monk now.
DHs also take the most skill of all the classes to use in comparison, not because they are more specialized but because they are so damn gimp at the moment. Also i'm part of the very few who can farm MP10 without Gloom. I hate that skill because every DH uses it almost without exception but its not their fault that it is the only skill that can give them survivability on the same level as other classes.
You're a wizard Harry.....
I am playing a hardcore DH atm, and so far it takes the most "skill" to survive out of the classes i have played in hardcore, you have to be focused (which i enjoy).
DH is still the fastest LOW MP farming class. It was before, and still is, simply because of superior mobility.
The issue with DH is that the abilities scale poorly, which means by the time you get to around MP2 even in good gear, your efficiency basically falls behind AND gets further behind as MP goes higher.
Well, if he uses strafe, he doesn't need to stop to kill mobs. Like here, I was doing Alkaizer run in just a bit over 5 minutes, and gear isn;t exactly cutting edge stuff at that time:
I'm wearing a legacy set, which lets me use ToC. Without legacy dps would be significantly higher, and I wouldn't even need ToC, which more or less balances out on MP0 exp/hour. The thing with non-legacy DH is that they lose speed in most groups, because the need to crit the mobs to regain disc (nightstalker passive). So if someone else kills too many of the mobs, they could end up running out of disc to constantly vault.
Even then i find it incredibly difficult to see a monk actually outrunning a DH on MP0. Monks shouldn't be out-running DH until like MP2-3+
there's a difference between boring and playing it when im damn tired
in any game i always pick a class that need managment [warlock in wow for instance, was demo lock for last 7 years while ppl hated it and i was damn good at it ^^ ]
my point is that sometimes i wanna relax and click mouse and melt stuff... with my barb and wiz i can do that with much worse gear than i use on my DH and thats what i miss a bit.. and i talk about same MP not lowering it to do that...
dont get me wrong, i love DH, its my main chick on screen but we might need a buff.. maybe not in dmg but in resource changes... as someone mentioned in this post already, cluster is our 'bears' and 'hota' but it just cost 2 much... lowering it on 30 or 25 hatred might fix a lot for dh gameplay... it would feel like good DPS class to have in party .. as i said, having 350~k dps on my DH in my eyes is like 150k CM wiz ... kinda strange feeling, maybe subjective but thats the point anyway
beside that i would like a bit more dodge from dexterity..
I actually don't like to move a lot with my DH, mainly because I still feel that the Manticore is slow, even with 50% more attack speed. I like to tank.
So, on MP7~10 I (usually) stay where I am, pop all my damage reduction stuff ([Shadow Power: Gloom] + [Sentry: Guardian Turret]) granting me 50% more damage reduction and start spamming Bola Shot with Stun.
Obviously I do have to move sometimes, if an elite has some nasty affixes, like arcane (all arcanes end up below me, so I have to run).
Molten / Dessecrators are bad, but if I'm hitting and damaging the monsters than I'm getting my life back.
The real problems are arcane (and their freaking lasers) and poison. They seem to stack somehow and I can't stand on the poison spots more than 2 or 3 seconds.
Anyway, on the topic: I do have more fun with the DH than the CMWW or Archon Wiz. The resource management, the tanking and moving habilities and the looks (she is beautiful to see) are great.
If i'm tired, and just want to faceroll all the monsters, I low the MP to 0 or 1, and it's a no-brainer. Even when I only had 100K DPS.
Wizard | Demon Hunter
Conform or be cast out.
My Demon Hunter: http://tinyurl.com/anufqzj Yes, THAT Analogkid- pissing off Hunters since 2007.
Wizard | Demon Hunter
But I still like playing with my DH. Tried to roll a TR Monk, got bored at paragon 13.
Barbs can Rend spam which is why they can do MP 10 Keeps 2 or Crater 2
Monks have Exploding Palm and Wave of Light which again lets them easily do MP 10 Keeps 2 or Crater 2
CM/WW will never take damage unless the player is full retard
WDs have so much Crowd Control and utility its silly.
DHs are squishy and have no hard hitting ability that lets them farm insane EXP like Barbs and Monks. 1.08 better fix that. I mean the class cant possibly get worse can it? Are they trying to make DHs worse than Witch Doctors were at launch?
We have...
Damn...
Well, we have the style! Barbs are too ugly and too dumb. We have, what should we call, finesse.
Wizard | Demon Hunter
Where can I spend my "Style" so I can do MP 10 like its MP 0?
You can... uh... look good while the barbs do the job ?
(disclaimer: This post and my previous one were mere joking)
<serious_mode>
Well, all the classes have pros and cons, and while I agree the DH's can use some love from Blizzard, we have on our side the fact that any of the other classes have skills like Shadow Power with 15% life recover for that matter.
I play with a DH, a Wizard and a Monk, and all of three have completely different playstyles, and while one is strong on one spec, the other is stronger in another.
Monks with TR are almost as brainless as Barbs with WW. But they are utterly boring (for me). DH's are hard to master, they are fun and there's some build diversity. Not item diversity, but this is another matter.
Although we do not hit very hard, we can set traps and span sentinels, making our effective DPS double or triple steadily over time.
So, while we cannot burst a huge amount of damage, we can do a pretty decent amount of damage over time.
I could use someone good at math to help me with this argument, though.
</serious_mode>
Wizard | Demon Hunter