So everyone has been saying "DH dont need resistence" & "its a Pure DPS class, stop trying to build resistance, we hate you and you should die for suggesting it"
Well, I beg to differ.
Before I built up my resistances to about 300 each, 500 for physical, I could not even try to compete in Act 2. Yes its true, you can just buff your damage and your move speed and run away constantly. But guess what, if you can get good enough gear such that you can get a good deal of Res without losing to much DPS, you can take a good 3-4 hits in Act 2 inferno.
It does not sound like much, but in truth its everything. This allows you time to get away, use a potion, pick up a health globe, while continuing to kite and fire those elemental blood balls and elites.
Following this logic, (plus the upcoming inferno nerf), even higher resistences and hp would be a blessing for moving into act 3 -4.
I'm not sure anyone disagrees with the approach per se; rather most people see the cost effectiveness of spending a smaller sum of money on boosting DPS to a maximum as opposed to a vastly greater expense of acquiring the gear needed to build those resists to the levels you spoke of while maintaining a decent damage output.
I'm not sure anyone disagrees with the approach per se; rather most people see the cost effectiveness of spending a smaller sum of money on boosting DPS to a maximum as opposed to a vastly greater expense of acquiring the gear needed to build those resists to the levels you spoke of while maintaining a decent damage output.
Perhaps, I guess I am just enjoying the slow approach of getting my self to act 3- 4 "legitimately" instead of going for a gimpy glass cannon build. Hey if it lowers the prices of resist gear I guess I support this style of play : p
Yes, resistance can get you thru act 2 but as soon as you hit act 3....they are pointless...i was at about 500 resist all (30k hp) on my DH, around 45kdps(no sharpshooter) and was still getting 1 shot by just about everything. Until they smooth the damage out so it isnt, turn a corner and die, resistance and vitality for DH will be pointless past act 2.
Perhaps, I guess I am just enjoying the slow approach of getting my self to act 3- 4 "legitimately" instead of going for a gimpy glass cannon build. Hey if it lowers the prices of resist gear I guess I support this style of play : p
I love how you pruposefully added that glass cannon is "gimpy" So what you are saying is that my glass cannon 5 NV diablo runs where i die only if theres fast/invul. Is not legitimate? Im pretty sure angels and opressor still one shot you with 1000 resist if you didnt pop shadow power before hand. I rather just kill them in one hit before they are able to charge me off screen. But thats just me. Until we know anything about the damage nerf/hp nerf, resist gear is trash or overpriced. You either cant clear act3/4 because you sacrificed offense for meaningless ability to take 3 hit in act 2 (which drops pure shit) or your gear cost 200 million gold and you die just as much in act 3/4 because you need to preemptivly use shadow power like glass cannon does with smoke screen.
Theres a reason most of the biggest farmer and successful DH go glass cannons. Its because its the most efficient way. Until we know what exactly changes in the next patch. We can still assume its the "easy way". All we know is that hp is getting nerfed and damage. To what degree, we got no idea. For exemple if the hp nerf is bigger then the damage nerf (which could be, because melee problem is not staying alive, its killing monster before they hit enrage/out of hp, if they are built to survive). If the HP nerf is much bigger then the dmg nerf, it would completly give the edge to glass cannon.
Long story short: We cant assume what the nerf looks like yet. Act 2 is easy mode for DH, 500 resist or 40k dps without ss no resist, will get you trough eye closed. 40K dps is easy to do with 500k gold. 500 resist and still having the dps to pass belial, not so much. Act 3/4 500 resist might as well be naked. Unless you spam shadow power at all time, youll die. Just as much as glass cannon die when spamming ss. AKA not alot if you are good, but glass gets the edge by finishing champs fight alot quicker in cheaper gear.
Perhaps, I guess I am just enjoying the slow approach of getting my self to act 3- 4 "legitimately" instead of going for a gimpy glass cannon build. Hey if it lowers the prices of resist gear I guess I support this style of play : p
I love how you pruposefully added that glass cannon is "gimpy" So what you are saying is that my glass cannon 5 NV diablo runs where i die only if theres fast/invul. Is not legitimate? Im pretty sure angels and opressor still one shot you with 1000 resist if you didnt pop shadow power before hand. I rather just kill them in one hit before they are able to charge me off screen. But thats just me. Until we know anything about the damage nerf/hp nerf, resist gear is trash or overpriced. You either cant clear act3/4 because you sacrificed offense for meaningless ability to take 3 hit in act 2 (which drops pure shit) or your gear cost 200 million gold and you die just as much in act 3/4 because you need to preemptivly use shadow power like glass cannon does with smoke screen.
Theres a reason most of the biggest farmer and successful DH go glass cannons. Its because its the most efficient way. Until we know what exactly changes in the next patch. We can still assume its the "easy way". All we know is that hp is getting nerfed and damage. To what degree, we got no idea. For exemple if the hp nerf is bigger then the damage nerf (which could be, because melee problem is not staying alive, its killing monster before they hit enrage/out of hp, if they are built to survive). If the HP nerf is much
bigger then the dmg nerf, it would completly give the edge to glass cannon.
Long story short: We cant assume what the nerf looks like yet. Act 2 is easy mode for DH, 500 resist or 40k dps without ss no resist, will get you trough eye closed. 40K dps is easy to do with 500k gold. 500 resist and still having the dps to pass belial, not so much. Act 3/4 500 resist might as well be naked. Unless you spam shadow power at all time, youll die. Just as much as glass cannon die when spamming ss. AKA not alot if you are good, but glass gets the edge by finishing champs fight alot quicker in cheaper gear.
Notice I put legitimate in quotes, as in I dont really think its the only legitimate way. Of course the DH glass cannon build is viable, and perhaps the only one viable in act 3-4. I guess my point was that resistances should be viable, as in, Blizzard really messed up by making them unusable past act 2 (which I guess I was unaware of). I was thinking if I buffed my res I could hack it past act 2. Right now I have 45k DPS no SS. With around 300 resists. Is it really true that with 1000 resists you are still getting 1 shotted? I find that hard to believe, but if it is indeed true, blizzard made a big mistake, I mean, how do you have something in a game that you cant overcome with the best most maxed out gear. Thats a serious design flaw.
In my mind, the way diablo should work is that end game gear keeps you alive. Of course Barbs and Monks should get higher benefits in this department. But being 1 shotted by any enemy is not fun to me, its not a fun style of gameplay. Its a broken system if you ask me.
Yes, resistance can get you thru act 2 but as soon as you hit act 3....they are pointless...i was at about 500 resist all (30k hp) on my DH, around 45kdps(no sharpshooter) and was still getting 1 shot by just about everything. Until they smooth the damage out so it isnt, turn a corner and die, resistance and vitality for DH will be pointless past act 2.
That's a little weird. I just hit 500 resist and 30k HP myself (around 60k dps without SS), and I find I'm surviving a lot of things now. Fireballs from winged moloks, soul lasher in the keeps (the later ones still one-shot me), and spear throws being the most notable. They put me in deep red HP, but I survive most of the time. This made TONS of difference.
Act 4 and whimsyshire on the other hand, those are just nasty (as they should be).
Perhaps, I guess I am just enjoying the slow approach of getting my self to act 3- 4 "legitimately" instead of going for a gimpy glass cannon build. Hey if it lowers the prices of resist gear I guess I support this style of play : p
I love how you pruposefully added that glass cannon is "gimpy" So what you are saying is that my glass cannon 5 NV diablo runs where i die only if theres fast/invul. Is not legitimate? Im pretty sure angels and opressor still one shot you with 1000 resist if you didnt pop shadow power before hand. I rather just kill them in one hit before they are able to charge me off screen. But thats just me. Until we know anything about the damage nerf/hp nerf, resist gear is trash or overpriced. You either cant clear act3/4 because you sacrificed offense for meaningless ability to take 3 hit in act 2 (which drops pure shit) or your gear cost 200 million gold and you die just as much in act 3/4 because you need to preemptivly use shadow power like glass cannon does with smoke screen.
Theres a reason most of the biggest farmer and successful DH go glass cannons. Its because its the most efficient way. Until we know what exactly changes in the next patch. We can still assume its the "easy way". All we know is that hp is getting nerfed and damage. To what degree, we got no idea. For exemple if the hp nerf is bigger then the damage nerf (which could be, because melee problem is not staying alive, its killing monster before they hit enrage/out of hp, if they are built to survive). If the HP nerf is much
bigger then the dmg nerf, it would completly give the edge to glass cannon.
Long story short: We cant assume what the nerf looks like yet. Act 2 is easy mode for DH, 500 resist or 40k dps without ss no resist, will get you trough eye closed. 40K dps is easy to do with 500k gold. 500 resist and still having the dps to pass belial, not so much. Act 3/4 500 resist might as well be naked. Unless you spam shadow power at all time, youll die. Just as much as glass cannon die when spamming ss. AKA not alot if you are good, but glass gets the edge by finishing champs fight alot quicker in cheaper gear.
Notice I put legitimate in quotes, as in I dont really think its the only legitimate way. Of course the DH glass cannon build is viable, and perhaps the only one viable in act 3-4. I guess my point was that resistances should be viable, as in, Blizzard really messed up by making them unusable past act 2 (which I guess I was unaware of). I was thinking if I buffed my res I could hack it past act 2. Right now I have 45k DPS no SS. With around 300 resists. Is it really true that with 1000 resists you are still getting 1 shotted? I find that hard to believe, but if it is indeed true, blizzard made a big mistake, I mean, how do you have something in a game that you cant overcome with the best most maxed out gear. Thats a serious design flaw.
In my mind, the way diablo should work is that end game gear keeps you alive. Of course Barbs and Monks should get higher benefits in this department. But being 1 shotted by any enemy is not fun to me, its not a fun style of gameplay. Its a broken system if you ask me.
Its not every attack. But its most of the stronger mobs, the one that actually gives you trouble that resist gear does not works against in later acts. You simply cant currently plan your gear to fight the easy mobs, when the hard mobs will eat you even defensivly. Notice how everyone keeps brining up normal mobs as comparison to validate their resistance gear? Every single of these mobs pause no real challenge to a geared glass cannon anyway. Every single of these can be one shot off screen or during smoke screen. What you gear for is the challenging elites and bosses. The things that can kill you even if you pay attention.
The path most took because of that is simply full on offense so that the hard fighters last shorter. Mortar in act 4 kill me in 2 fireballs (they fire 3 each). The fact is taking more then 2 or even 1 wont matter. It would be better my fight last 10 second shorter then surviving that 3rd fireball. Because if i get hit by that ball i messed up, if my fight was 20 seconds instead of 30, i have less chance to mess up.
DH is the complete opposite of barbarian currently. Where barb have to plan with defense first and damage later. You to survive this long so that x dps can be delt. DH is you have to do x dps so that you dont have to try surviving this long.
Unless you can spend ridiculous ammount of gold for every piece of your set (some are over 50 million sigh) This is simply not the efficient way for the class.
Notice the guy above me, he pretty much lost himself 40k dps to get those resist and hp and keep 60k dps. Im at only 20k hp and 150 resist and 110k dps. My gear probably cost 1/4 of his price. Yet he mention struggling in act 4 and i can clear most champs packs eye closed. Because the threatning ability cannot be stopped. But i kill them at double the speed he does, they are threatining for only half the time.
My only point I guess is that having to live in a world where everything 1 shots you isnt really fun. Disregarding how things are currently, do you like playing inferno in this horrible manner? Remember being an Amazon in Diablo 2 that could take a punch?
My only point I guess is that having to live in a world where everything 1 shots you isnt really fun. Disregarding how things are currently, do you like playing inferno in this horrible manner? Remember being an Amazon in Diablo 2 that could take a punch?
I dont mind it because my death are actually few and far betwen. You can check the other side of the spectrum, barbarian. Sure they dont get one shot by anything. But you grind the same mob pack in act 4 for 5 minutes and die anyway (not always). Finish the elites in 20 seconds and know you will kill them even if you mess up or get unlucky and die or grind every single pack for minutes to find out if you can do it or not. The answer is easy: DH have it easier then everyone right now, one shot or not. That tells us alot about the current game and why glass cannon is so popular. It can kill things others cannot, because it has the damage and it doesent require any surviability to work. Only some attention and to spam off screen.
Unless the damage nerf is ground breaking like 20-40%. Nothing will change on the DH side, but i dont expect this as it will make monk and barb invincible pretty much. I expect a much larger hp nerf actually. As it will fix the real problem with barbarian and coop with one stone. The DH passive surviability will not be fixed by the next patch, because it would trivialise the damage for everyone else. DH has the best active defense. If anything the patch following where blizzard want to buff more spells to match the current "cookie cutter" for everyone might give DH some needed passive defense to flesh out more options.
We simply cant assume they will nerf the damage by a huge ammount when a good geared barb can sit in melee with act 4 elites for 5 minutes.
I've spent about $3,000,000-$5,000,000 getting my somewhat crappy DPS gear and it's allowed to me finish Inferno. People going for survival gear need to spend about $10,000,000-$20,000,000. No thanks.
Granted, I do intend to spend that kind of money on my next character, but there was no need for the Demon Hunter. The only benefits I would've really gained would've been making Damage Reflect packs easier. As it is, I've learned how to survive without health.
650 resist all and 45k hp and à Shield with Good block will get you pass act 3. Now you still need a good 40 k dps to manage that... I got nice 1150 dps 1h to help with that... Block does very good once you have the right resist since 5k block on 50k is pointless but 5k block on 10k is awesome!
I farm act 3 like this and yes still have some issue with certain mobs but most of them need around 5 to 6 hit to kill me so I can kite ans mess up a little and not die....
But yes dex stam vit gear is pretty hardcore money to get to 700 resist all... But since I hate being one shot, this is the way I went. Let's hope 1.03 will help me since I don't die as much as a glass canon but it can be longer to kill things thats for sure. Every piece I have on was about 2 to 5 millions.... Good luck and remember that at around 700 resist all 2 point in vita is better then one point in resist all... % life is god, reduce Meele and range is even better ! Just check your effective health pool for some usefull info!
I used to be anti-survival on my DH. Beat Inferno Diablo with about 25k HP, 80 resist to all, and 45-80k damage. However, I recently started stacking all resist due to a rumor I heard about Reflect Damage. My gosh, it makes a HUGE difference. Up to about 250 all resist and I actually dont have to use Smoke Screen against them to avoid the damage. While I still don't think Vitality is that great for us, All Resist(and even Phys Resist) is epic against Nether Tentacles and Reflect.
Perhaps, I guess I am just enjoying the slow approach of getting my self to act 3- 4 "legitimately" instead of going for a gimpy glass cannon build. Hey if it lowers the prices of resist gear I guess I support this style of play : p
I love how you pruposefully added that glass cannon is "gimpy" So what you are saying is that my glass cannon 5 NV diablo runs where i die only if theres fast/invul. Is not legitimate? Im pretty sure angels and opressor still one shot you with 1000 resist if you didnt pop shadow power before hand. I rather just kill them in one hit before they are able to charge me off screen. But thats just me. Until we know anything about the damage nerf/hp nerf, resist gear is trash or overpriced. You either cant clear act3/4 because you sacrificed offense for meaningless ability to take 3 hit in act 2 (which drops pure shit) or your gear cost 200 million gold and you die just as much in act 3/4 because you need to preemptivly use shadow power like glass cannon does with smoke screen.
Theres a reason most of the biggest farmer and successful DH go glass cannons. Its because its the most efficient way. Until we know what exactly changes in the next patch. We can still assume its the "easy way". All we know is that hp is getting nerfed and damage. To what degree, we got no idea. For exemple if the hp nerf is bigger then the damage nerf (which could be, because melee problem is not staying alive, its killing monster before they hit enrage/out of hp, if they are built to survive). If the HP nerf is much bigger then the dmg nerf, it would completly give the edge to glass cannon.
Long story short: We cant assume what the nerf looks like yet. Act 2 is easy mode for DH, 500 resist or 40k dps without ss no resist, will get you trough eye closed. 40K dps is easy to do with 500k gold. 500 resist and still having the dps to pass belial, not so much. Act 3/4 500 resist might as well be naked. Unless you spam shadow power at all time, youll die. Just as much as glass cannon die when spamming ss. AKA not alot if you are good, but glass gets the edge by finishing champs fight alot quicker in cheaper gear.
Just to fix something.
Angel charges 3 shot you.
Oppressors 1 shot everyone, unless you are massively geared tank. (Charge)
Currently sitting at:
Life: 51771
DPS: 72 / 225k
Armor: 3922
Reists: 667/677/637/637/637/677
You are correct about some things. Like the fact that building resistances before you have a good glass cannon spec is a terrible idea. Doing so will pretty much stunt your progress, and make your life miserable. Also trying to build survivability without dps is also pointless.
PS: I love to watch those awesome glass cannon streams in my free time. 355k DPS DH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! About 50% of the streams are spent in that awesome red screen that says: YOU HAVE DIED. YOUR ITEMS HAVE LOST 10% DURABILITY, with Revive at last checkpoint grayed out.
I used to be anti-survival on my DH. Beat Inferno Diablo with about 25k HP, 80 resist to all, and 45-80k damage. However, I recently started stacking all resist due to a rumor I heard about Reflect Damage. My gosh, it makes a HUGE difference. Up to about 250 all resist and I actually dont have to use Smoke Screen against them to avoid the damage. While I still don't think Vitality is that great for us, All Resist(and even Phys Resist) is epic against Nether Tentacles and Reflect.
What rumor about reflect damage?
Honestly, I am running exactly 1500 LOH and 520 Life regen and I can actually spam my hungering arrow and nether tentacle and never get below 90%. See my gear. I can post video if anyone needs proof. I have like <100 resist. http://imgur.com/OVdT9
Perhaps, I guess I am just enjoying the slow approach of getting my self to act 3- 4 "legitimately" instead of going for a gimpy glass cannon build. Hey if it lowers the prices of resist gear I guess I support this style of play : p
I love how you pruposefully added that glass cannon is "gimpy" So what you are saying is that my glass cannon 5 NV diablo runs where i die only if theres fast/invul. Is not legitimate? Im pretty sure angels and opressor still one shot you with 1000 resist if you didnt pop shadow power before hand. I rather just kill them in one hit before they are able to charge me off screen. But thats just me. Until we know anything about the damage nerf/hp nerf, resist gear is trash or overpriced. You either cant clear act3/4 because you sacrificed offense for meaningless ability to take 3 hit in act 2 (which drops pure shit) or your gear cost 200 million gold and you die just as much in act 3/4 because you need to preemptivly use shadow power like glass cannon does with smoke screen.
Theres a reason most of the biggest farmer and successful DH go glass cannons. Its because its the most efficient way. Until we know what exactly changes in the next patch. We can still assume its the "easy way". All we know is that hp is getting nerfed and damage. To what degree, we got no idea. For exemple if the hp nerf is bigger then the damage nerf (which could be, because melee problem is not staying alive, its killing monster before they hit enrage/out of hp, if they are built to survive). If the HP nerf is much bigger then the dmg nerf, it would completly give the edge to glass cannon.
Long story short: We cant assume what the nerf looks like yet. Act 2 is easy mode for DH, 500 resist or 40k dps without ss no resist, will get you trough eye closed. 40K dps is easy to do with 500k gold. 500 resist and still having the dps to pass belial, not so much. Act 3/4 500 resist might as well be naked. Unless you spam shadow power at all time, youll die. Just as much as glass cannon die when spamming ss. AKA not alot if you are good, but glass gets the edge by finishing champs fight alot quicker in cheaper gear.
Just to fix something.
Angel charges 3 shot you.
Oppressors 1 shot everyone, unless you are massively geared tank. (Charge)
Currently sitting at:
Life: 51771
DPS: 72 / 225k
Armor: 3922
Reists: 667/677/637/637/637/677
You are correct about some things. Like the fact that building resistances before you have a good glass cannon spec is a terrible idea. Doing so will pretty much stunt your progress, and make your life miserable. Also trying to build survivability without dps is also pointless.
PS: I love to watch those awesome glass cannon streams in my free time. 355k DPS DH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! About 50% of the streams are spent in that awesome red screen that says: YOU HAVE DIED. YOUR ITEMS HAVE LOST 10% DURABILITY, with Revive at last checkpoint grayed out.
I don't know if 50% of those stream is of them dying. It really isn't that bad. A lot of people try to talk and play, I find those that actually focus and kill shit tend to not die as often. I've even seen 'geared'/tanky DH do poorly. They either take 15 minutes to kill an elite pact, or just get horribly overwhelmed by a fast, mortar, vortex, jailer, molten, plague type affix cause they are not running with smoke screen. You really can't get take that many hit.
Personally speaking, I like to farm areas where I have plenty of kiting room. So that may be Cydea/Azmodan or Garden lvl 1+2. Most of the time I breeze through, but occassionally I may have bad luck and get charged by an offscreen oppressor. I am definitely not a fan of the Keep in Act 3 due to not being able to see behind walls. But if you play careful (short of meeting an elite pact of soul rippers/lashers), most people are fine. Cookie you will always be the exception of the bunch because you have incredulous DPS and survivability, which I am sure was not cheap in the slightest. It all depends on the person's skill level. I remember back in the day where mortar pacts and reflect damage pacts were a nightmare to me, in act 1. I didn't know how to combat short of outranging mortar pacts, and not even hitting reflect damage pact in a group setting. Now that is all of the past. We live and learn. I think after trial and error you pick up on how to approach things. I pretty much SS soon as an oppressor drops to the ground and it never touches me. I've killed all bosses in this game SOLO with half the DPS I am currently packing now.
There are a only a few combination of affixes that are troublesome. If it's too much to bother I skip it. I'm okay with that because I can kill 95% of everything with relative ease.
I've considered going 1H (w/ LOH)+shield but I am probably going to wait til 1.03 hit to try that experiment. There are definitely some defensive abilities that work (Numbing Trap, Gloom, etc.) I think I'll settle for half the duration of Gloom for SS personally just for the invuln, and my love of tactical advantage. As a DH, even tanky ones, you still have to kite elite pacts anyway.
Perhaps, I guess I am just enjoying the slow approach of getting my self to act 3- 4 "legitimately" instead of going for a gimpy glass cannon build. Hey if it lowers the prices of resist gear I guess I support this style of play : p
I love how you pruposefully added that glass cannon is "gimpy" So what you are saying is that my glass cannon 5 NV diablo runs where i die only if theres fast/invul. Is not legitimate? Im pretty sure angels and opressor still one shot you with 1000 resist if you didnt pop shadow power before hand. I rather just kill them in one hit before they are able to charge me off screen. But thats just me. Until we know anything about the damage nerf/hp nerf, resist gear is trash or overpriced. You either cant clear act3/4 because you sacrificed offense for meaningless ability to take 3 hit in act 2 (which drops pure shit) or your gear cost 200 million gold and you die just as much in act 3/4 because you need to preemptivly use shadow power like glass cannon does with smoke screen.
Theres a reason most of the biggest farmer and successful DH go glass cannons. Its because its the most efficient way. Until we know what exactly changes in the next patch. We can still assume its the "easy way". All we know is that hp is getting nerfed and damage. To what degree, we got no idea. For exemple if the hp nerf is bigger then the damage nerf (which could be, because melee problem is not staying alive, its killing monster before they hit enrage/out of hp, if they are built to survive). If the HP nerf is much bigger then the dmg nerf, it would completly give the edge to glass cannon.
Long story short: We cant assume what the nerf looks like yet. Act 2 is easy mode for DH, 500 resist or 40k dps without ss no resist, will get you trough eye closed. 40K dps is easy to do with 500k gold. 500 resist and still having the dps to pass belial, not so much. Act 3/4 500 resist might as well be naked. Unless you spam shadow power at all time, youll die. Just as much as glass cannon die when spamming ss. AKA not alot if you are good, but glass gets the edge by finishing champs fight alot quicker in cheaper gear.
Just to fix something.
Angel charges 3 shot you.
Oppressors 1 shot everyone, unless you are massively geared tank. (Charge)
Currently sitting at:
Life: 51771
DPS: 72 / 225k
Armor: 3922
Reists: 667/677/637/637/637/677
You are correct about some things. Like the fact that building resistances before you have a good glass cannon spec is a terrible idea. Doing so will pretty much stunt your progress, and make your life miserable. Also trying to build survivability without dps is also pointless.
PS: I love to watch those awesome glass cannon streams in my free time. 355k DPS DH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! About 50% of the streams are spent in that awesome red screen that says: YOU HAVE DIED. YOUR ITEMS HAVE LOST 10% DURABILITY, with Revive at last checkpoint grayed out.
Not sure how good those glass cannon are or where they farm really. Im sure 355k dps is with inlfated sharpshooter. Im at 112k dps without sharpshooter because i prefer nightstalker with my 49% crit myself. Act 4 can get messy when there stuff like fast opressors or invul, not gona lie. As i said there is a level of gear where you can keep a relativly high dps and have resistance. However having more damage and making those fight managable is only a fraction of the gold price. Truth be told after a few diablo 5 nv, looking at it drop the exact same thing azmodan and cydeae drops made me simply go back to act 3. Part of it was because diablo fight is simple longer then both of these. While diablo fight is pretty short in good gear as glass cannon, azmodan and cydeae die faster then elites at this point.
My main routine is get 3 nv > 2nd heart > 5 nv cydeae > 5nv azmo. I can manage the whole run with like 1 or 2 death. Hell a couple of times i did it with no deaths. Really depends on what elites come my way, but thats expected. Would i love your stats, hell yeah. Problem is a single of your items cost the price of my whole set of gear. Im keeping my gold to gear my barb when blizz finally release pvp :X.
Im no hater to resistance, im just a hater for people that keep trying to bring up resistance as the way to start out their DH. Even the best geared resistance DH with 500 million gold gear set had to start glass cannon to progress. Its the DH way.
I dont think its DH's intended way though, smoke screen shouldn't be end all be all, take it out of equation and suddenly you can't do jack without resistances :). And honestly, screw the mainstream I dont wana smoke screen! Some programmer probably mistook invisibility with invincibility when coding smoke screen.
In WoW I played a rogue (same character name) in a hardcore progression guild (mostly Vicarious). There is a lot of dodging fire, incoming magic, mobs that flay (old school cleave anyone?). You don't have a lot of health and you have Cloak of Shadows. You learn to dodge and move (and live) or you get replaced. Rogues sometimes kite mobs back to the tanks (before Tricks of the Trade) from the healers/casters and stay focused on what is going on around them.
In D3 I play a Demon Hunter. The similarities of playstyle are there. Yes, aside from the melee vs. ranged, but that's not as different as you'd think. I feel that it's more about playstyle than anything else, gear being a distant second.
When a fireball comes at you, move. When poison is pooling under you, move away (and not to a corner!). When a mob is coming at you, get out of it's path. It's pretty simple stuff. When Diablo is sending you to the shadow world, have your finger on the smoke screen button so as soon as your shade appears you have 1 second to get the drop on them (figure that the other 0.5 is reaction time). Don't waste Discipline; treat it as Energy as a Rogue- pool it so it's there when you need it. Caltrops and other Disc hungry skills are nice but I avoid all of them. Smoke Screen is our best defensive tool; we aren't a high-health, high-defense type class.
I have pretty good gear and I tried to strike a balance. 51k health, 450-500 all resists, 3100ish armor (around 50% reduction), 72k DPS (not including Sharpshooter, which is 152k), and 235% magic find (with 5 stack NV). I only had trouble (took an hour or so) with Infernal Ragnaroth and his teleport instagib mechanic. Inferno mode was very challenging and some pack combos have a special place in my, well, yeah. Infernal Belial is an easy fight for DH so it balances out.
I would say all the time spent raiding in WoW set me and others up mentally for the challenge. Of course there is some balancing necessary as there is in any game of this magnitude.
I really like Diablo 3. And there are no mailboxes to clog up with hate mail!
I play a WD, all things considered, because my pets are practically unviable, I play like a ranged class.
I stacked resists.
Patch was a god send.
It's just simple math.
With around 700-800 resists before the patch, stuff would hit you for 30-40% of your life with some outliers (that also got nerfed). Post patch that same stuff hits for 10-20% of my life. All the sudden I can take a LOT of hits, heck with a little LOH or Lifesteal, I could even get to a point where I can just sit there and not kite small amounts of mobs.
If you have or had 500 or less, then stuff that hit you for 80-100% of your life, now hits you for 60-70% of your life, that isn't nearly as noticeable and as a result of losing 20-40k dps depending on your situation, it's pretty obvious alot of you are just seeing the terrible parts of this patch.
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Well, I beg to differ.
Before I built up my resistances to about 300 each, 500 for physical, I could not even try to compete in Act 2. Yes its true, you can just buff your damage and your move speed and run away constantly. But guess what, if you can get good enough gear such that you can get a good deal of Res without losing to much DPS, you can take a good 3-4 hits in Act 2 inferno.
It does not sound like much, but in truth its everything. This allows you time to get away, use a potion, pick up a health globe, while continuing to kite and fire those elemental blood balls and elites.
Following this logic, (plus the upcoming inferno nerf), even higher resistences and hp would be a blessing for moving into act 3 -4.
Why do people disagree with this approach?
Perhaps, I guess I am just enjoying the slow approach of getting my self to act 3- 4 "legitimately" instead of going for a gimpy glass cannon build. Hey if it lowers the prices of resist gear I guess I support this style of play : p
I love how you pruposefully added that glass cannon is "gimpy" So what you are saying is that my glass cannon 5 NV diablo runs where i die only if theres fast/invul. Is not legitimate? Im pretty sure angels and opressor still one shot you with 1000 resist if you didnt pop shadow power before hand. I rather just kill them in one hit before they are able to charge me off screen. But thats just me. Until we know anything about the damage nerf/hp nerf, resist gear is trash or overpriced. You either cant clear act3/4 because you sacrificed offense for meaningless ability to take 3 hit in act 2 (which drops pure shit) or your gear cost 200 million gold and you die just as much in act 3/4 because you need to preemptivly use shadow power like glass cannon does with smoke screen.
Theres a reason most of the biggest farmer and successful DH go glass cannons. Its because its the most efficient way. Until we know what exactly changes in the next patch. We can still assume its the "easy way". All we know is that hp is getting nerfed and damage. To what degree, we got no idea. For exemple if the hp nerf is bigger then the damage nerf (which could be, because melee problem is not staying alive, its killing monster before they hit enrage/out of hp, if they are built to survive). If the HP nerf is much bigger then the dmg nerf, it would completly give the edge to glass cannon.
Long story short: We cant assume what the nerf looks like yet. Act 2 is easy mode for DH, 500 resist or 40k dps without ss no resist, will get you trough eye closed. 40K dps is easy to do with 500k gold. 500 resist and still having the dps to pass belial, not so much. Act 3/4 500 resist might as well be naked. Unless you spam shadow power at all time, youll die. Just as much as glass cannon die when spamming ss. AKA not alot if you are good, but glass gets the edge by finishing champs fight alot quicker in cheaper gear.
Notice I put legitimate in quotes, as in I dont really think its the only legitimate way. Of course the DH glass cannon build is viable, and perhaps the only one viable in act 3-4. I guess my point was that resistances should be viable, as in, Blizzard really messed up by making them unusable past act 2 (which I guess I was unaware of). I was thinking if I buffed my res I could hack it past act 2. Right now I have 45k DPS no SS. With around 300 resists. Is it really true that with 1000 resists you are still getting 1 shotted? I find that hard to believe, but if it is indeed true, blizzard made a big mistake, I mean, how do you have something in a game that you cant overcome with the best most maxed out gear. Thats a serious design flaw.
In my mind, the way diablo should work is that end game gear keeps you alive. Of course Barbs and Monks should get higher benefits in this department. But being 1 shotted by any enemy is not fun to me, its not a fun style of gameplay. Its a broken system if you ask me.
That's a little weird. I just hit 500 resist and 30k HP myself (around 60k dps without SS), and I find I'm surviving a lot of things now. Fireballs from winged moloks, soul lasher in the keeps (the later ones still one-shot me), and spear throws being the most notable. They put me in deep red HP, but I survive most of the time. This made TONS of difference.
Act 4 and whimsyshire on the other hand, those are just nasty (as they should be).
Its not every attack. But its most of the stronger mobs, the one that actually gives you trouble that resist gear does not works against in later acts. You simply cant currently plan your gear to fight the easy mobs, when the hard mobs will eat you even defensivly. Notice how everyone keeps brining up normal mobs as comparison to validate their resistance gear? Every single of these mobs pause no real challenge to a geared glass cannon anyway. Every single of these can be one shot off screen or during smoke screen. What you gear for is the challenging elites and bosses. The things that can kill you even if you pay attention.
The path most took because of that is simply full on offense so that the hard fighters last shorter. Mortar in act 4 kill me in 2 fireballs (they fire 3 each). The fact is taking more then 2 or even 1 wont matter. It would be better my fight last 10 second shorter then surviving that 3rd fireball. Because if i get hit by that ball i messed up, if my fight was 20 seconds instead of 30, i have less chance to mess up.
DH is the complete opposite of barbarian currently. Where barb have to plan with defense first and damage later. You to survive this long so that x dps can be delt. DH is you have to do x dps so that you dont have to try surviving this long.
Unless you can spend ridiculous ammount of gold for every piece of your set (some are over 50 million sigh) This is simply not the efficient way for the class.
Notice the guy above me, he pretty much lost himself 40k dps to get those resist and hp and keep 60k dps. Im at only 20k hp and 150 resist and 110k dps. My gear probably cost 1/4 of his price. Yet he mention struggling in act 4 and i can clear most champs packs eye closed. Because the threatning ability cannot be stopped. But i kill them at double the speed he does, they are threatining for only half the time.
I dont mind it because my death are actually few and far betwen. You can check the other side of the spectrum, barbarian. Sure they dont get one shot by anything. But you grind the same mob pack in act 4 for 5 minutes and die anyway (not always). Finish the elites in 20 seconds and know you will kill them even if you mess up or get unlucky and die or grind every single pack for minutes to find out if you can do it or not. The answer is easy: DH have it easier then everyone right now, one shot or not. That tells us alot about the current game and why glass cannon is so popular. It can kill things others cannot, because it has the damage and it doesent require any surviability to work. Only some attention and to spam off screen.
Unless the damage nerf is ground breaking like 20-40%. Nothing will change on the DH side, but i dont expect this as it will make monk and barb invincible pretty much. I expect a much larger hp nerf actually. As it will fix the real problem with barbarian and coop with one stone. The DH passive surviability will not be fixed by the next patch, because it would trivialise the damage for everyone else. DH has the best active defense. If anything the patch following where blizzard want to buff more spells to match the current "cookie cutter" for everyone might give DH some needed passive defense to flesh out more options.
We simply cant assume they will nerf the damage by a huge ammount when a good geared barb can sit in melee with act 4 elites for 5 minutes.
I've spent about $3,000,000-$5,000,000 getting my somewhat crappy DPS gear and it's allowed to me finish Inferno. People going for survival gear need to spend about $10,000,000-$20,000,000. No thanks.
Granted, I do intend to spend that kind of money on my next character, but there was no need for the Demon Hunter. The only benefits I would've really gained would've been making Damage Reflect packs easier. As it is, I've learned how to survive without health.
I farm act 3 like this and yes still have some issue with certain mobs but most of them need around 5 to 6 hit to kill me so I can kite ans mess up a little and not die....
But yes dex stam vit gear is pretty hardcore money to get to 700 resist all... But since I hate being one shot, this is the way I went. Let's hope 1.03 will help me since I don't die as much as a glass canon but it can be longer to kill things thats for sure. Every piece I have on was about 2 to 5 millions.... Good luck and remember that at around 700 resist all 2 point in vita is better then one point in resist all... % life is god, reduce Meele and range is even better ! Just check your effective health pool for some usefull info!
Just to fix something.
Angel charges 3 shot you.
Oppressors 1 shot everyone, unless you are massively geared tank. (Charge)
Currently sitting at:
Life: 51771
DPS: 72 / 225k
Armor: 3922
Reists: 667/677/637/637/637/677
You are correct about some things. Like the fact that building resistances before you have a good glass cannon spec is a terrible idea. Doing so will pretty much stunt your progress, and make your life miserable. Also trying to build survivability without dps is also pointless.
PS: I love to watch those awesome glass cannon streams in my free time. 355k DPS DH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! About 50% of the streams are spent in that awesome red screen that says: YOU HAVE DIED. YOUR ITEMS HAVE LOST 10% DURABILITY, with Revive at last checkpoint grayed out.
What rumor about reflect damage?
Honestly, I am running exactly 1500 LOH and 520 Life regen and I can actually spam my hungering arrow and nether tentacle and never get below 90%. See my gear. I can post video if anyone needs proof. I have like <100 resist. http://imgur.com/OVdT9
profile: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/vanboon-1499/hero/3962228
http://i.imgur.com/8AfIp.jpg 4/4pc natalyza dps: 73k (w/o ss), dex: 1967, health: 22k, resist: ~150, mf: 90%/261%
I don't know if 50% of those stream is of them dying. It really isn't that bad. A lot of people try to talk and play, I find those that actually focus and kill shit tend to not die as often. I've even seen 'geared'/tanky DH do poorly. They either take 15 minutes to kill an elite pact, or just get horribly overwhelmed by a fast, mortar, vortex, jailer, molten, plague type affix cause they are not running with smoke screen. You really can't get take that many hit.
Personally speaking, I like to farm areas where I have plenty of kiting room. So that may be Cydea/Azmodan or Garden lvl 1+2. Most of the time I breeze through, but occassionally I may have bad luck and get charged by an offscreen oppressor. I am definitely not a fan of the Keep in Act 3 due to not being able to see behind walls. But if you play careful (short of meeting an elite pact of soul rippers/lashers), most people are fine. Cookie you will always be the exception of the bunch because you have incredulous DPS and survivability, which I am sure was not cheap in the slightest. It all depends on the person's skill level. I remember back in the day where mortar pacts and reflect damage pacts were a nightmare to me, in act 1. I didn't know how to combat short of outranging mortar pacts, and not even hitting reflect damage pact in a group setting. Now that is all of the past. We live and learn. I think after trial and error you pick up on how to approach things. I pretty much SS soon as an oppressor drops to the ground and it never touches me. I've killed all bosses in this game SOLO with half the DPS I am currently packing now.
There are a only a few combination of affixes that are troublesome. If it's too much to bother I skip it. I'm okay with that because I can kill 95% of everything with relative ease.
I've considered going 1H (w/ LOH)+shield but I am probably going to wait til 1.03 hit to try that experiment. There are definitely some defensive abilities that work (Numbing Trap, Gloom, etc.) I think I'll settle for half the duration of Gloom for SS personally just for the invuln, and my love of tactical advantage. As a DH, even tanky ones, you still have to kite elite pacts anyway.
profile: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/vanboon-1499/hero/3962228
http://i.imgur.com/8AfIp.jpg 4/4pc natalyza dps: 73k (w/o ss), dex: 1967, health: 22k, resist: ~150, mf: 90%/261%
Not sure how good those glass cannon are or where they farm really. Im sure 355k dps is with inlfated sharpshooter. Im at 112k dps without sharpshooter because i prefer nightstalker with my 49% crit myself. Act 4 can get messy when there stuff like fast opressors or invul, not gona lie. As i said there is a level of gear where you can keep a relativly high dps and have resistance. However having more damage and making those fight managable is only a fraction of the gold price. Truth be told after a few diablo 5 nv, looking at it drop the exact same thing azmodan and cydeae drops made me simply go back to act 3. Part of it was because diablo fight is simple longer then both of these. While diablo fight is pretty short in good gear as glass cannon, azmodan and cydeae die faster then elites at this point.
My main routine is get 3 nv > 2nd heart > 5 nv cydeae > 5nv azmo. I can manage the whole run with like 1 or 2 death. Hell a couple of times i did it with no deaths. Really depends on what elites come my way, but thats expected. Would i love your stats, hell yeah. Problem is a single of your items cost the price of my whole set of gear. Im keeping my gold to gear my barb when blizz finally release pvp :X.
Im no hater to resistance, im just a hater for people that keep trying to bring up resistance as the way to start out their DH. Even the best geared resistance DH with 500 million gold gear set had to start glass cannon to progress. Its the DH way.
In WoW I played a rogue (same character name) in a hardcore progression guild (mostly Vicarious). There is a lot of dodging fire, incoming magic, mobs that flay (old school cleave anyone?). You don't have a lot of health and you have Cloak of Shadows. You learn to dodge and move (and live) or you get replaced. Rogues sometimes kite mobs back to the tanks (before Tricks of the Trade) from the healers/casters and stay focused on what is going on around them.
In D3 I play a Demon Hunter. The similarities of playstyle are there. Yes, aside from the melee vs. ranged, but that's not as different as you'd think. I feel that it's more about playstyle than anything else, gear being a distant second.
When a fireball comes at you, move. When poison is pooling under you, move away (and not to a corner!). When a mob is coming at you, get out of it's path. It's pretty simple stuff. When Diablo is sending you to the shadow world, have your finger on the smoke screen button so as soon as your shade appears you have 1 second to get the drop on them (figure that the other 0.5 is reaction time). Don't waste Discipline; treat it as Energy as a Rogue- pool it so it's there when you need it. Caltrops and other Disc hungry skills are nice but I avoid all of them. Smoke Screen is our best defensive tool; we aren't a high-health, high-defense type class.
I have pretty good gear and I tried to strike a balance. 51k health, 450-500 all resists, 3100ish armor (around 50% reduction), 72k DPS (not including Sharpshooter, which is 152k), and 235% magic find (with 5 stack NV). I only had trouble (took an hour or so) with Infernal Ragnaroth and his teleport instagib mechanic. Inferno mode was very challenging and some pack combos have a special place in my, well, yeah. Infernal Belial is an easy fight for DH so it balances out.
I would say all the time spent raiding in WoW set me and others up mentally for the challenge. Of course there is some balancing necessary as there is in any game of this magnitude.
I really like Diablo 3. And there are no mailboxes to clog up with hate mail!
Conform or be cast out.
My Demon Hunter: http://tinyurl.com/anufqzj Yes, THAT Analogkid- pissing off Hunters since 2007.
I stacked resists.
Patch was a god send.
It's just simple math.
With around 700-800 resists before the patch, stuff would hit you for 30-40% of your life with some outliers (that also got nerfed). Post patch that same stuff hits for 10-20% of my life. All the sudden I can take a LOT of hits, heck with a little LOH or Lifesteal, I could even get to a point where I can just sit there and not kite small amounts of mobs.
If you have or had 500 or less, then stuff that hit you for 80-100% of your life, now hits you for 60-70% of your life, that isn't nearly as noticeable and as a result of losing 20-40k dps depending on your situation, it's pretty obvious alot of you are just seeing the terrible parts of this patch.