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Quote from Angeloonie»

A few problems with your build.

- Cull the Weak: You have nothing to trigger this passive. You need Caltrops - Bait the Trap to activate it, or Iceblink.

- Vault: you still want Tumble, even if the RCR is already high. Cinders is pointless in terms of aiming it and dps.

If you don't want to use Caltrops but still want to use Cull the Weak, then you need to use Iceblink so enemies you hit with EF are chilled and will activate CtW.

Your suggestion for Hexing pants instead of Cindercoat is not the best. Cindercoat gives you +fire% and RCR. Better option is to use RoRG instead of CoE (only 4/16 seconds active) and use either Pride's Fall or Hexing Pants. I would personally suggest Pride's Fall, otherwise you have to stutter-step which is kind of an annoying playstyle.

Personally I always pick Archery over anything else, for example instead of Ambush. 20% more damage that is almost always active (10 yards is the size of a waypoint, which is very small) is a lot better then a 40% bonus that's only active for a few seconds.

thanks for the suggestions, but nah, its fine...

first, cull the weak and bane the trapped are triggered by your follower with a thunderfury

second, trail of cinders mathematically costs less with the coat in the cube

third, you don't need iceblink because follower w/ thunderfury

fourth, you aren't wearing the cindercoat to start, you want disc on the chest, (for UE 6p) so you don't get fire damage

fifth, CoE is heaps stronger than a rorg and item, as mentioned CoE is key to damage potential (as it is independent multiplier)

sixth, archery is 8% additive damage with a bow (assuming you meant steady aim, which is also additive) while ambush is multiplicative

Quote from Angeloonie»

Quote from philosophios»

Quote from Angeloonie»

A few problems with your build.

- Cull the Weak: You have nothing to trigger this passive. You need Caltrops - Bait the Trap to activate it, or Iceblink.

- Vault: you still want Tumble, even if the RCR is already high. Cinders is pointless in terms of aiming it and dps.

If you don't want to use Caltrops but still want to use Cull the Weak, then you need to use Iceblink so enemies you hit with EF are chilled and will activate CtW.

Your suggestion for Hexing pants instead of Cindercoat is not the best. Cindercoat gives you +fire% and RCR. Better option is to use RoRG instead of CoE (only 4/16 seconds active) and use either Pride's Fall or Hexing Pants. I would personally suggest Pride's Fall, otherwise you have to stutter-step which is kind of an annoying playstyle.

Personally I always pick Archery over anything else, for example instead of Ambush. 20% more damage that is almost always active (10 yards is the size of a waypoint, which is very small) is a lot better then a 40% bonus that's only active for a few seconds.

thanks for the suggestions, but nah, its fine...

first, cull the weak and bane the trapped are triggered by your follower with a thunderfury

second, trail of cinders mathematically costs less with the coat in the cube

third, you don't need iceblink because follower w/ thunderfury

fourth, you aren't wearing the cindercoat to start, you want disc on the chest, (for UE 6p) so you don't get fire damage

fifth, CoE is heaps stronger than a rorg and item, as mentioned CoE is key to damage potential (as it is independent multiplier)

sixth, archery is 8% additive damage with a bow (assuming you meant steady aim, which is also additive) while ambush is multiplicative

1. So useless for group play.
2. Still useless, better a skill that costs less discipline so your MS always does more damage.
3. Group play again..
4. You're not wearing cindercoat true, so only the RCR. But your suggestion for hexing isn't good. Nothing really beats cindercoat's RCR combined with Yang.5. CoE is indeed stronger, tested it and keeping CoE in cube.
6. You're right I meant steady aim. That's a lot better then Archery.

Cull of the Weak gets triggered by group abilities as well, so if a person in your party runs bane of the trapped (which 99% of the time someone will be) or any other form of chill or slow effect, it will proc.

As for number 2 I don't really understand because with the cindercoat trail of cinders does cost less than tumble so it's better to run that than tumble.

Quote from Angeloonie

1. So useless for group play.
2. Still useless, better a skill that costs less discipline so your MS always does more damage.
3. Group play again..
4. You're not wearing cindercoat true, so only the RCR. But your suggestion for hexing isn't good. Nothing really beats cindercoat's RCR combined with Yang.5. CoE is indeed stronger, tested it and keeping CoE in cube.
6. You're right I meant steady aim. That's a lot better then Archery.

initially i appreciated the attempts for constructive feedback or suggestions and was willing to humor you... but at this point is pretty obvious you don't know what you are talking about, nothing you said was correct except CoE is stronger and that steady aim is better than archery, but ambush is still stronger than either...

the only thing you said that i feel like warrants a response is the hexing pants, these are a mentioned alternative option as the damage potential is higher with them than cindercoat, i prefer and suggest cindercoat, but hexing will hit harder and benefit more from nightstalker and hatred per second, so they are certainly a viable alternative, if not BiS

Quote from Jagz»

Hey man, good guide over all. I don't think hexing pants works with this build , as you don't move while spamming multishots. don't mind the angelina jolie guy, he has no clue what hes talking about i was literally rolling on the floor laughing at his comments

thanks, thing is the damage bonus from hexing lingers for a short moment so you can keep the bonus while attacking, but again, they are merely a mentioned alternative option, i recommend and prefer cindercoat, but i think a glass cannon setup with nightstalker HFA / Hatred per second on gear you might actually benefit more from hexing pants, i never really pushed/tested with this setup, but on paper it looks slightly stronger, in practice i much prefer cindercoat

Angeloonie, if you aren't sure who philosophios is, then you should check out his Twitch stream and YouTube sometime.

He does everything he can to present information backed by facts and double checks himself to make sure. I've been watching him for years and he's definitely among the elite when it comes to playing DH.

This is almost the exact build I used on the PTR and this works very well in solo play even. The only difference I used was tumble on my vault.

Thanks so much for this, dude. I have one question for you, though: why not choose Witching Hour over Hunter's Wrath? Since I'm supposed to be spamming MS and only using EF for WoC/FnR effects and hatred, wouldn't it be better to use Night Stalker as the 5th passive and go with WH belt instead? Since this build has so much RCR, why sacrifice 50% CHD and 7% AS for a slightly faster EF? Is there math behind that? lol

Quote from Angeloonie >>

It's fine with me if you want to be team-dependant, but that's not going to work all the time. Running bounties for example you're always solo if you do it correctly.

Why would you want to use this build for running bounties? There are other builds better suited for that task.

Quote from Rhadner»

Thanks so much for this, dude. I have one question for you, though: why not choose Witching Hour over Hunter's Wrath? Since I'm supposed to be spamming MS and only using EF for WoC/FnR effects and hatred, wouldn't it be better to use Night Stalker as the 5th passive and go with WH belt instead? Since this build has so much RCR, why sacrifice 50% CHD and 7% AS for a slightly faster EF? Is there math behind that? lol

i too was initially skeptical of the value of the hunter's wrath, i don't have exact math for it, but in practice it felt significantly stronger, let me explain the reasoning;

when you get to high GR progression, things take much longer to die so you can't just spam multishot the whole time, with limited options for hatred regen (less value from reapers wraps/blood vengeance) you will run out of hatred and spend a lot of time generating, so you will prefer the faster regen, otherwise it takes significantly longer to gen/dump, the 30% faster is its own modifier (unlike the 7% ias from WH) so its not 'slightly faster' its much faster! the faster you generate the sooner you dump, this is significant for damage potential not only to increase the hatred gen/dump rotation speed, but often overlooked the disc regen, as you move around avoiding stuff and positioning you use disc and reduce damage potential (even with high resource reduction) the belt helps solve this long standing issue of UE by triggering the UE2p faster, i do highly recommend nightstalker as the fifth passive, but that is because of synergy with hunter's wrath not as a substitute.

somethings about witching hour, in the video optimized for torment, i ran WH, because the kill speed is faster you get much more value from blood vengeance and reapers wraps through health globes, but the 7% ias scales poorly with yangs, already having insane attack speed, so you really only lose 50% crit damage and im pretty sure its worth, i suppose i could mention WH in the text guide tho

hope that helps, sorry i don't have exact math on that, im sure you could spreadsheet the difference but i usually just see what feels stronger in practice, as the paper doesn't always translate perfectly into practice

Quote from Painbowganis»

Why do you have "Reduced Resource Cost" as one of the stats for the chest (Cage of the Hellborn)? Do you mean Hatred Regeneration? Because I can't reroll Resource Cost Reduction on any of mine.

yea sorry to confuse, they do not have the option for hatred regen on chest in the dfans guide, but in the guide near the top it says 'RCR on chest = hatred per second'

I really despise Taeguk but it's really rewarding in damage aspect, is there an easy way maintaing the Taeguk? I run all the time shooting Multishot and find myself without any resource.
I thought about getting really high Hatred per second that way I can run while cast Multishot every few seconds...

Quote from Banglev»

I really despise Taeguk but it's really rewarding in damage aspect, is there an easy way maintaing the Taeguk? I run all the time shooting Multishot and find myself without any resource.
I thought about getting really high Hatred per second that way I can run while cast Multishot every few seconds...

Taeguk is recommended for this build because of the massive rcr you get from both Yangs Recurve + Cindercoat, and also the very high attack speed, making it faster and easier to maintain your stacks.
However if you don't like the Taeguk playstyle (and I don't) then there are always other options. If playing seasons or on console then Stricken is available and it is a fantastic gem. If non season then you could always go with Iceblink to proc BOtT and CTW, allowing you to run Vengence instead of Caltrops. Another option would be to run Entangling Shot, Justice is served (to proc BOtP and CTW) meaning you could run BOtP as your third gem.
I'm not saying these are better options, but they are viable alternative choices depending on your preferred playstyle. If however, you are looking for max damage then you are better off just sticking to the recommendations in his gude, Taeguk, if you can get and hold the stacks at max, is very powerful both offensively and defensively. I just find it too much work to be enjoyable and it is also very frustrating when you drop the stacks. I guess I'm just lazy.

ps. another 3rd gem is Esoteric, if you want a defensive option, it is a great choice.

I've checked the leaderboards and i've seen Iceblink dominate as the 3rd gem.
currently i'm trying to increase my attack speed ( i even gave up on 6 CC since caltrop and Iceblink adds 10%) in order to avoid using Hunter's Wrath since my Witching Hour is ancient and nicely rolled, in the process my RCR dropped a bit but i'll get better items ;]

Quote from Banglev»

I've checked the leaderboards and i've seen Iceblink dominate as the 3rd gem.
currently i'm trying to increase my attack speed ( i even gave up on 6 CC since caltrop and Iceblink adds 10%) in order to avoid using Hunter's Wrath since my Witching Hour is ancient and nicely rolled, in the process my RCR dropped a bit but i'll get better items ;]

Interesting. Thanks for letting me know. Can you clarify if you mean season or non season? I like Iceblink because of the amazing synergy it has with CTW and BotT but it is very hard letting go of other gems in order to make use of it.

ps. another thing I like about Iceblink is the crowd control it offers simply by slowing stuff down. I have no idea if it is still as effective at doing that with the reduced cc in patch 2.3?!?

I see that for the chest you have RCR as one of the priorities, but in-game I don't see that as one of the properties that I can reroll to. Does it have to drop with RCR on it or am I missing something?

Quote from Quidam67»

Quote from Banglev»

I've checked the leaderboards and i've seen Iceblink dominate as the 3rd gem.
currently i'm trying to increase my attack speed ( i even gave up on 6 CC since caltrop and Iceblink adds 10%) in order to avoid using Hunter's Wrath since my Witching Hour is ancient and nicely rolled, in the process my RCR dropped a bit but i'll get better items ;]

Interesting. Thanks for letting me know. Can you clarify if you mean season or non season? I like Iceblink because of the amazing synergy it has with CTW and BotT but it is very hard letting go of other gems in order to make use of it.

ps. another thing I like about Iceblink is the crowd control it offers simply by slowing stuff down. I have no idea if it is still as effective at doing that with the reduced cc in patch 2.3?!?

non season, it's nice way to add more damage.
Ice blink+Bait the Trap is 20% crit chance which is A LOT
Also Wraps of Clarity is not suitble for pushing into higher grifts, some use Lacuni (beacuse of speed attack) and some use Reaper's Wraps because the abillity to refill resource, It's really intersting because Wraps of Clarity adds a lot of toughness but in GR60+ I dont think it matter much.

Currently I'm running a RoRG for the jewellery cube slot and a cindercoat chest piece and pride's fall in the armor affix slot.

I don't have a single piece of ancient UE so I find that effective.

My issue right now is that I don't have a yang's recurve or calamity (never found either of them)

What's the most effective way to farm for those?

Should I roll legendaries using the cube or should I roll shards? (Keeping in mind that I still need to basically find legendary versions of every single equip in my build and 1 weapon roll = 3 armor rolls)

I can't find the wraps of clarity either. Currently I'm using Reapers wraps. Is there something else that would be more effective for the time being until I find the wraps of clarity?

Awesome and informative guide as always.

Just a quick question.

Assuming that you are running in a 3-4 man party at GR62+ where things take multiple MS to kill.

And assume that there's one or two tank classes in the party that could slow and draw aggro away from you.

Would it be better to cube RoRG instead and wear Pridesfall? And swap out Seethe for MfD Mortal Enemy? The total RCR plus 4 hatred per attack from ME would/should make MS practically free.

And since you would only then need to fire Focus every 5 seconds to proc F&R rings. Hunter's Wrath loses its effectiveness due to much less frequency firing generators. Witching Hour could used here to boost dps. Or even String of Ears for survivability. Maintaining Taeguk buff would be a lot easier also.

I get the feeling that this would be better than CoE and Seethe in high group GRs where fights are prolonged. I have not done the numbers but it would seem intuitive to think more MS = overall dps gain.

What do you think?

Quote from Acehorn»

What are your thoughts about

1.Running with leech as a fifth passive? You do lose out on either Cull or Steady, but from my own experience so far i struggle a lot less with reflect dmg mobs.

2.Also in group play i'm swapping out the caltrops/seethe for Marked for Death, since it amplifies the group dmg more. (if i'm not mistaken it stacks with the cubed calamity)

besides that great guide and keep it up ^^

i like leech but, depending on how high you are going, eventually you will have to just skip reflect
calamity and MFD do stack, added that to the guide in group variation, cheers!

Quote from HUNGUSFUNGUS»

Awesome and informative guide as always.

Just a quick question.

Assuming that you are running in a 3-4 man party at GR62+ where things take multiple MS to kill.

And assume that there's one or two tank classes in the party that could slow and draw aggro away from you.

Would it be better to cube RoRG instead and wear Pridesfall? And swap out Seethe for MfD Mortal Enemy? The total RCR plus 4 hatred per attack from ME would/should make MS practically free.

depending on the group comp, greater rift level, and speed, you will get more or less value out of each setup mentioned;
when you are doing speed runs tho, especially in a group with multiple dps, you can usually get really good value from blood vengeance and/or reaper's wraps, so that usually solves the resource situation and you just want higher dmg potential, also i didn't much like mortal enemy because monsters die fast so you are constantly having to cast it just wasting disc, mortal enemy is better when things take longer to die, perhaps solo but i still didn't feel the value there either