Torment 6 (60) will be un-playable

  • Note: here I'm talking about Torment 6 for these without RoS: i.e. max char level 60.

    After spending many hours on PTR I'm quite convinced that with current difficulty settings as on PTR Torment 6 (60) will never be playable when it goes life.
    The reasons are following:
    - Regardless of smart-drop system, no newly found items ilvl 60 can compete with nearly BiS items that are available in the game now (dps reduce on items due to reduced IAS rolls, reduced WD% rolls, impossibility to roll items with 6 main-stats i.e. quad-fecta with dext+vit is impossible to roll in Loot 2.0)
    - Torment 6 is 10-fold increase of health pool for mobs/elites and even higher increase of health pool for bosses compared to current MP10 (end act bosses with something like ~2B HP);
    - Massive nerfs to dodge, armour, defences and most effective offensive skills/build in order to account overinflated values of primary/vitality/resistances/armour for level 70 characters.

    For example, on solo Torment 6 (60) game, goblin has 640M HP, Elites are 890M-1.2B HP, white mobs are 40M-120M HP.
    I.e. white mobs are the same (or more) HP as elites on MP10 today, and elites can have about 10 times more HP than MP10 Ubers.
    Dodge gain from Dexterity is reduced (if you had 52% dodge on life - it will be ~30% dodge on PTR). Nerf to other skills that severely reduce defences (ex. Seize the Initiative on monks nerfed from 50% dext to 30% dext). Nerf to the best DPS skills that are in game now (ex. Nirvana build is not working at all and bells lost half of their damage, FoT lost its increased attack speed coefficient ++). Despite buffs to rarely used skills they still unusable on Torment 6 difficulty (ex. LTK and seven sided strike are not working at all on Torment 6 despite massive buffs to these skills, both LTK and SSS are easily over-performed on Torment 6 by a build that uses spirit generators only!!!)
    The mobs doesn't seem to do more raw damage than on MP10, but they hit more often because of lost dodge and more damage comes through due to lost armour.
    Effects from elites are much more deadly than what we have on MP10 currently.

    I have close to BiS items on my monk and in my stash and I'm able to faceroll MP10 now.
    When importing my account to PTR - the paragon level that I get is 307 (max that you get from converting current paragon 1000 experience to paragon 2.0) - means huge buff from new Paragon 2.0 system as well (not many will get that when pre-RoS patch comes).

    During my playtime on PTR, I did find several improved legendaries that could be thought as "Build changing", but all they were downgrades compared to my currently equipped and stashed items (i.e. all 3 numbers were red). I've tried using some of them nevertheless, mostly for great disappointment.

    When it concerns playing Torment 6 (60). I'm able to kill white trash there fast enough, it takes ages to kill elites and in most cases - I die on elites once or twice. The tactic for killing elites is: to drag them to a huge pack of white trash mobs, mark 10 mobs with the hand and kill the pack. With 10 hand marked mobs it also gets down a significant portion of elites' HP, if elites are still alive - continue to the next pack of white trash mobs...

    On bosses I'm unable to use hand (no big packs of white trash mobs around them). The bosses seems to do less damage than elites, but they have twice as much HP as extra health elites. That makes boss encounters lasts forever (i.e. you should consider spending at least 15-20 minutes for killing a boss on Torment 6).

    I have no doubt that Torment 6 (70) will eventually be farmable by level 70 characters.
    However Torment 6 (60) will never be farmable due to:
    - reduced DPS/EHP rolls on gears and weapons;
    - massive nerfs to damage modifiers, skills, builds;
    - absence of trading (mostly self-found mode);

    If we say that difficulty is farmable when your DPS is sufficient to kill a goblin: Torment 6 (60) requires effective DPS of minimum 46M per second - something that even best equipped players on life server can't produce. Its completely impossible to think that amount of DPS combined with increased demand on EHP can be achieved in self-found mode even if you play 10 years in a row. And despite Smart rolls - none of the best Loot 2.0 items can compete with any of top 100 EU items in given category available on life servers now.

    Edit: here is a picture where you can see HP pool in Torment 6 (60) on ubers.
    Skeleton King is 3.2B HP, Maghda is 2.4B.
    Their damage is only a fraction of what MP10 ubers do today on life server - I can stay alive on them forever. but it also takes forever to kill them.
  • 20/01/2014 12:05Posted by Nephelem
    Luckily there is a difference between "whining" and constructive criticism.

    Very true! :-)

    20/01/2014 12:14Posted by NYARLATHOTEP
    3. What is the point of unbalancing difficulty playable by level 60 characters only in such extent that it have no chance of being playable ever?

    I agree, they should remove Torment 4-6 from Vanilla.

    So if we did that, then what should those people who might feel that Torment 3 is within their comfort zone do if they want to play at those higher difficulties?

    Granted, Torment 4-6 right now on the PTR are quite difficulty for those who have no intention to move beyond level 60, and it will likely continue to be so after the Reaper of Souls launch, but it should be said that things are still being tested and tuned and should therefore not be considered set in stone. If you are testing Torment difficulties on the PTR right now and you find it almost impossible to farm those difficulties due to high monster health pools, then we would appreciate if you could please have a look at this thread and post your feedback on damage and health pool numbers.