35 replies to this topic

[Jalatiphra]

Hi iam trying to find my most upgrade worthy item.

For comparision this is my char: http://eu.battle.net...532/hero/120019

If you have an idea which item to upgrade and why leave your thoughts.

Please keep in mind that this is a CM wizz  so some gear choices are intentionally - e.g the blackthorns jousting mail for the loh

%critchance will currently give me the greatest damage boost, but will cost the most. (e.g upgrade to a 6% mempo is really expensive)

Crafting is also an option, but i need to be convinced that it might be worth the investment.

is it wise to upgrade gems to marquise?

[jzurh]

i would go for better lacuni with 9% as and higher crit chance.

and i guess at least one marquis gem in the weapon slot is adviseable.

whats your aps? you also could get a faster chantodo mainhand

[Bagstone]

Your gear is pretty insane :-) There's no real weak spot that I can see right now. I guess upgrading anything is expensive, and so will be crafting. For the non-German fellas the EN link, just for convenience: http://eu.battle.net...532/hero/120019 and the Diabloprogress link as well (his APS is 2.53 @jzurh).

I concur with jzurh's notion for other bracers - obviously an expensive choice would be better Lacuni's, if you want to up your EHP you could get rare bracers/craft them, but since you would lose IAS I guess that's out of the question. 1% more IAS on bracers would do nothing though since you already scratched the 2.51 break point.

A faster Chanto mainhand is not a good idea; it's unlikely that he'll get to the 2.74 breakpoint, and he'll lose the socket and therefore lots of damage. A Marquise gem is a lot for just 10% crit damage, but it might be worth it. After all, contrary to what you said it's not crit chance that will give you most damage; crit hit damage is actually what's most beneficial for you (because you have such a high crit chance, but you're not at a 1:100 ratio of crit/crit hit damage).

Do you feel okay with only 400ish LoH? It's obviously a matter of personal preference. Just struck me as being a bit low.

At this level of gear, the one member who can give you most helpful feedback is Jaetch - wait for him. He knows more about these levels of gear ;-P In the meantime, take a look at the guides - though I suspect you know most of what's been written in there already, because your gear looks more than fine (CMWW guide/general gear guide). Oh, and use a spreadsheet/d3up.com or so to find out if an upgrade is worth it, like a Marquise gem.

Edited by Bagstone, 26 February 2013 - 12:25 PM.

[RasAlgethi24]

Good DPS and eHP.  Only downside to your build is the low APS.  You can get a better freeze by stepping up to the 2.73 break point or 3.001 if you can.  I personally think the priority of a CM should be: 1. Good freeze, 2.  EHP so you can tank anything and 3. DPS after those two.  Other than that, i'd get some LoH like Bagstone said.

Edited by RasAlgethi24, 26 February 2013 - 01:19 PM.

[Zeel]

I would get new zuni boots 8% damage and 180+ int with otherwise similar stats also a better wand with 0.25 APS  also would recommend crafting some shoulders as upgrading yours wont be to hard if you get a bit lucky. Oh and if you want to be picky upgrade mempo and lacunis, apart from that it looks good to me.

[Bagstone]

Just a stop sign: forget about the poison bonus on Zuni boots, Chanto is not a black weapon. Don't know why so many people overlook this. It's by the way the main reason why I even advise getting rid of Zuni and going for Nat set. (No offense, just trying to sensitize people towards the fact that Chanto's is NOT A BLACK WEAPON and thus the damage bonus of Tal's amulet/Zuni boots/Storm Crow/... is negligible.)

For a similar reason, you might get rid of the Tal amulet and just craft the hell until you hit a good one. Could definitely use some IAS+CC+EHP, some LoH... actually, I'd do that first.

Edited by Bagstone, 26 February 2013 - 04:22 PM.

[Jaetch]

Get a 1.65 APS Chantodo's Will with higher damage. Most expensive, but most straightforward DPS boosting choice.

Kill your Tal Rasha's Allegiance because having only crit damage doesn't do you many favors as a CM wizard. In addition, the bonus elemental damage doesn't benefit you much.

It might decrease your DPS a little bit (but improve your survivability), but get a high IAS + CC Blackthorne's Duncraig Cross. You'll get huge life %, high LOH, along with the 100 bonus vitality for BT set.

If you get a 1.65 APS Chantodo's Will with at least a 8% IAS BT Cross, you'll hit the 2.73 APS breakpoint.

Edited by Jaetch, 26 February 2013 - 04:50 PM.

[Loroese]

The main thing I can think of is maybe a trifecta amulet, or work on crafting one. You are missing out on about 7% dps because of your chanto with the tal/zuni pieces, but with a crit mempo you don't want to swap to a black dagger combo due to lack of APoC. The bright side of using the chanto with the tal's ammy is it makes it easier to replace the ammy. An IAS ammy would let you either aim for the next breakpoint or let you drop your prowlers for high EHP bracers. You can even gain some dps from the bracers, I think, especially if you have some funds to spend on crafting.

DPS aside the main thing I notice is your armor is a bit low, and your HP is a bit high, so you can try swapping some HP for armor. EHP isn't a great stat to build around as a CMWW, imo. It's much more useful to just aim for a base 30-40k hp and then get your damage mitigation high. High mitigation makes your diamond skin much better which should raise your survivability more than extra HP. It also makes your limited Loh better.

Also, which your current gear, you can even drop 1% IAS and keep at your current breakpoint, though there aren't any pieces that stand out as being easily able to drop 1% IAS from.

Finally, if you did want to reach the next APS breakpoint, swapping your chanto for an IAS version with max IAS would do it, even with a 0.21APS one. You can look at the IAS Breakpoints table in my DPS/EHP spreadsheet if you want some more info about what IAS on weapon and gear is needed to reach each breakpoint.

[Jalatiphra]

thank you all very much for your input.
of course i have thought about my options beforehand, but i didnt post them  here since this would have biased you

Just to saY: Iam  totally fine with that low amount of LOH , iam currently farming mp7  (about 1mil xp per minute - if i dont go to town or collect anything , idenntifiying stuff at the end of the run though lowers  the average)

So basically what you are saying :

Upgradeplan:
1,5 bil : 1st : weapon -> new chanto : 1.65 + sox + 1200+dps
??bil: 2nd: Amulet -> Rare crafted or duncain cross trifec - since  i dont get much dps from the +elemental dps  ( i knew that btw^^)
2bil :3rd: lacunis -> 6%cc or rares  ( to get to 2.75 breakpoint i cant use rares since i dont want to miss on the soxx in chantodo )

and as a last step:
2-3bil: get rid of zunimasa  boots and ring and replace by : goodly iceclimbers + quintfecta ring

also: craft shoulders like fuck and get better ones

anyone disagreeing? its now getting so expensive i dont want to fuck up, but i want to reach Jaetch unbuffed  dps, somebody has to hold the flag up for europe  

Edited by Jalatiphra, 26 February 2013 - 06:01 PM.

[Jalatiphra]

Loroese, on 26 February 2013 - 05:18 PM, said:

T

DPS aside the main thing I notice is your armor is a bit low, and your HP is a bit high, so you can try swapping some HP for armor. EHP isn't a great stat to build around as a CMWW, imo. It's much more useful to just aim for a base 30-40k hp and then get your damage mitigation high. High mitigation makes your diamond skin much better which should raise your survivability more than extra HP. It also makes your limited Loh better.

This is whats keeping me from farming MP 10 ( and a missing 100k paper dps^^)

@RasALgethi24: I never thought someone would call 2.52 aps a slow attack rate  - you are funny

sry doublepost - i hoped the forum would append to my previous post automatically

Edited by Jalatiphra, 26 February 2013 - 05:53 PM.

[Loroese]

Jalatiphra, on 26 February 2013 - 05:45 PM, said:

thank you all very much for your input.
of course i have thought about my options beforehand, but i didnt post them  here since this would have biased you

Just to saY: Iam  totally fine with that low amount of LOH , iam currently farming mp7  (about 1mil xp per minute - if i dont go to town or collect anything , idenntifiying stuff at the end of the run though lowers  the average)

So basically what you are saying :

Upgradeplan:
1,5 bil : 1st : weapon -> new chanto : 1.65 + sox + 1200+dps
??bil: 2nd: Amulet -> Rare crafted or duncain cross trifec - since  i dont get much dps from the +elemental dps  ( i knew that btw^^)
2bil :3rd: lacunis -> 6%cc or rares  ( to get to 2.75 breakpoint i cant use rares since i dont want to miss on the soxx in chantodo )

and as a last step:
2-3bil: get rid of zunimasa  boots and ring and replace by : goodly iceclimbers + quintfecta ring

anyone disagreeing?

That sounds about right. If you upgrade to a faster Chanto, you also have the option of staying at your 2.5 APS breakpoint and dropping down to 52% IAS. If it were me I'd get the 2.73 breakpoint though, since it's not too hard to reach with your current gear and the extra CM and LoH procs make survival a bit easier. Still, it's a personal choice.

Also, you could try crafting some shoulders. They can go over 300 Int with the new recipes.

[jzurh]

i dont know if it is an option for you but of course you can replace your second ring.

if the xp is not essential, you can easily get the 2.73 breakpoint. but you have thought about this option for sure

/edit: marquis gem will give you +4,163.63 dps btw

Edited by jzurh, 26 February 2013 - 06:27 PM.

[RasAlgethi24]

I meant 2.5 is slow for CM.  Especially with your level of gear, you easily hit 2.73 and improve both your true damage and survivability.

[Jaetch]

As support for what Loroese suggested with going with an IAS Chantodo's Will:

I use the following items for my CM/WW set:



See I use a max APS (I think it's max APS) Chantodo's Will to make assigning attack speed and other stats much more easier for me. In this set I run over 3.03 APS, which is overkill, but at least I don't have to focus much on attack speed for my other gear slots. Also, IAS Chant's Will is much cheaper than socketed ones.

I'm actually tempted to swap to a 6% CC Storm Crow and replace the IAS there with a Blackthorne's Duncraig Cross so I can run nearly 30 APoC and over 1,000 LoH to make everything much more efficient (and maybe even use Meteor!).

Edited by Jaetch, 26 February 2013 - 10:10 PM.

[Bagstone]

If he is fine in terms of survivability, I don't know why he should aim for 2.73. If you're just running around like crazy and farming you have more than 2, 3 mobs around you all the time. The 2.73 (and especially 3.01) are really just important if you're focusing on ubers or similar encounters where it's just you vs 1-2 mobs.

But just my two cents. It's strange though; I remember that a while ago we were discussing the 2.73 breakpoint more openly. It's not like it's the only way to max DPS, and I doubt it's the best way, especially since you kind of have to rely on Chantodo's to get there.

Isn't the best CMWW high-end gear just a typical Archon set with a 1.55 APS APoC wand, a Triumvirate with APoC and 63% IAS? Just saying, for farming and not for ubers. Jaetch, do you still have a link to your insane CMWW gear when you were topping the charts?

Edit: Just look at that Chantodo's you just posted, 1.79 APS, but -100k DPS, not even a socket. Aren't you automatically at 3.01 APS with that since all the BiS items in other slots have IAS as well?

Edited by Bagstone, 26 February 2013 - 10:16 PM.

[RasAlgethi24]

^I definitely understand what you're saying.  It's especially true for people with lower levels of gear.  But with the OP's level of gear one can easily maintain high DPS, EHP, while still shooting for a higher aps breakpoint.

Besides, if you're just farming, why not run archon instead?  It's much more efficient for farming.  CM is amazing for high MP levels in which higher breakpoints become more important.

Edited by RasAlgethi24, 26 February 2013 - 10:31 PM.

[Bagstone]

Yeah, good point. But I've seen a lot of people lately who seem to be using CMWW for farming. (Dunno how many keyboards they smash per week though ;-)). To each his own...

[Jaetch]

Bagstone, on 26 February 2013 - 10:13 PM, said:

Isn't the best CMWW high-end gear just a typical Archon set with a 1.55 APS APoC wand, a Triumvirate with APoC and 63% IAS? [...]

Edit: Just look at that Chantodo's you just posted, 1.79 APS, but -100k DPS, not even a socket. Aren't you automatically at 3.01 APS with that since all the BiS items in other slots have IAS as well?

Without the CM set I posted, my APS is a miniscule 2.03.

Bagstone, on 26 February 2013 - 10:13 PM, said:

Jaetch, do you still have a link to your insane CMWW gear when you were topping the charts?

Actually, it's not that much different compared to what I'm using now. That set was also a 3.01 APS CM/WW configuration.

I believe the APS is really important for the fast cast speed, not just the WW ticks. You don't want animation breaks between a Nova and throwing a WW down or refreshing Storm Armor. The whole concept is to hit fast. With a fat wand and a hard hitting Triumvirate, yes, you will hit harder, but not faster. This is important for Explosive Blast and CM wizards that want to spam Meteors.

And as Ras said above, it's absolutely amazing at high MP levels, especially during group play when Archon simply won't do enough to carry an entire team, and especially against elites that kite (I've learned this the hard way playing MP10 public games).

Edited by Jaetch, 26 February 2013 - 10:49 PM.

[Bagstone]

Interesting. Thanks for the heads up. So I'll just stand down, play my WD for a while and buy a new Chanto when prices go back to normal. Ever since the recent guide appeared on front page last week, Chanto prices went just through the roof, beyond insanity.

[Doso777]

2,74 is soooo much better. I even dropped below 200K DPS just to get it, and it was worth it.