22 replies to this topic

[Verror]

/d3/en/profile/Verror-1160/hero/699804

Ive been running around on mp4-6, and I've got the living thing down, but I REALLY dont do enough dmg, I can't beat the enrage on butcher even on mp4.

I didn't play for a long time after release, then played a bit a few months ago where I kinda winged it, so I have no clue if my gear/spec are still even reasonable.

Ive got about 5mill gold on me, with enough stuff around to get another 20mill if i sell stuff.

Any help is appreciated!

[maka]

Is it on US or EU?

[Verror]

My bad, on US, couldnt post full link due to it being my first post

http://us.battle.net...160/hero/699804

[Bribous]

Oh, my. You are using a shield. That's a big no-go for wizards, if you really want damage. Go buy yourself a triumvirate, now.

At least 200 damage, 150+ INT, 100+VIT. That alone would giv you a ton of DPS.

I ran some simulations for you on D3UP ( http://d3up.com/b/360509 ), and even a bad triumvirate would giv you a HUGE boost on DPS and a small boost on EHP.



Stop your reading. Stop what you are doing. Go buy it now. And I mean it, NOW.

Edited by Bribous, 22 February 2013 - 08:43 PM.

[Verror]

Heh, well I guess that's an easy fix, thx!, I'll have to see if i need to pick up some defensive stats somewhere else now tho =P

Any other glaring mistakes?

[iluhan08]

Get a weapon with socket and put the most expensive emerald + crit damag you can buy. Get rings and amulet +crit chance and crit damage (or you can craft it).

And you can get nice rare belt with int (>170) vitality and all ress (>70) they are cheap
And as pants you better get Blackthorne's Jousting Mail with +armor and vit on them.

Edited by iluhan08, 22 February 2013 - 09:02 PM.

[maka]

That was great help, Bribous. +1

Btw, are you Brazilian?

[Loroese]

You basically need to replace all of your gear to use that CMWW build. That's part of your problem. For CMWW you want high CC (45%+ buffed at least) and then high IAS (I recommend at least 2.5 APS, most prefer 2.73+). Otherwise your effective dps is going to be very low, which you're seeing. Higher APS and CC also makes it much much easier to survive.

I'd actually recommend dropping to MP0 and farming Act 3 as Archon. Replacing just a couple pieces should raise your dps high enough for Archon to work well and it's not nearly as gear dependent at low MP as CMWW. With a little paragon farming from there, you can save up some extra gold and put together a budget CMWW build. I haven't done any budget CMWW builds though so the more money you can save the better. For Archon, replace both your rings with crit+CD rings, preferably with some int, average damage, and maybe vit or armor or resist. I'd replace your amulet with a tal's amulet, just something cheap. It should raise your dps by A LOT, especially after you get a triumvirate as the poster above said. Even a 1 mil triumvirate will add a ton of dps.

If you're dead set on keeping your current build, you need to replace both rings, amulets, and probably gloves with high IAS (preferably 9%) high CC versions (4% or so for ring, 7-8% for amulet/gloves). You'll probably also need to replace your wand with either a dagger with high IAS or maybe a chanto wand with IAS. The chanto will make it easier to reach higher APS, and you can combine it with a Chanto OH for extra IAS to reach the 2.5 or 2.73 APS breakpoint. The problem is changing your wand is likely going to cost you a bit of dps. Also, if you go with the dagger route, you'll want to pick up APoC on the triumvirate instead of vit, because you'll want to have 18-20 APoC to make the build work best. Eventually you'll want to swap your chest to a tal's chest and pick up a Witching Hour Belt, which adds more IAS.

You can read my CMWW guide for more info about your build if you want some pointers or more gearing ideas.

[Bribous]

Verror, on 22 February 2013 - 08:56 PM, said:

Heh, well I guess that's an easy fix, thx!, I'll have to see if i need to pick up some defensive stats somewhere else now tho =P

I don't think you'll miss the defensive stats from the shield, due to amount of VIT + INT you get from the triumvirate. Your EHP would be increased, and that's a very minor and cheap improvement for you and yout current budget (3 mil).

Verror, on 22 February 2013 - 08:56 PM, said:

Any other glaring mistakes?

If (and this is a BIG if) you are aiming at the CM+WW build, please take Loroese's advice (and guide) seriously. He knows what he's talking about. And I would recomend watching ArchonInferno's CM+WW build guide, posted today. (

maka, on 22 February 2013 - 09:09 PM, said:

That was great help, Bribous. +1

Thanks! I've leeched this forum so hard on the last months, that I feel I can contribute a little now.

maka, on 22 February 2013 - 09:09 PM, said:

Btw, are you Brazilian?

Yep, from Rio de Janeiro!

[Jaetch]

Oyyyy... if you found me just four days earlier, I could've built you up from scratch. I emptied out my stash of items I don't bother selling and I know for sure I could have upgraded your shoulders, both your rings, your amulet, your boots and I believe your gloves.

Edit: and your belt. Definitely your belt.

And go with the Triumvirate suggestion. And a fat weapon with crit damage and/or a socket. That will shoot your DPS right up. Also if you're not hell-bent on running CM/WW, kill your Storm Crow and use Andariel's Visage (8-9 IAS and 4.5% CC). Just try to grab one with low Fire damage taken and with either high int or one with a socket.

Edited by Jaetch, 22 February 2013 - 10:14 PM.

[Verror]

Thx guys, you're all so nice =D

I've skimmed both the guides(now), but  its hard to decide, thats why I asked you guys!

I built this char to be melee, I think back at release I was using spectral blades and sleet storm >.>
I assume theres no real way to stay CM without using WW.

Ive gotten up to 32Mill gold, so i guess its onto looking for rings/ammy/gloves and a new wep first!

Tho based off the vid released today, i may go 3 part Zunimassa's, since i already have the chest.

Thx again!

[maka]

CM can also work with Living Lightning, if you don't really have the APoC to support WW, though the damage is, of course, nor comparable. But hey, at least you won't run out of AP every 2 seconds

@Bribous: Prazer!

[Loroese]

You can run CM without WW. There's meteor/LL builds, spectral blade builds, and a few others. CMWW is just the most popular and the best at keeping mobs frozen. Gearing for the other builds might be a little different. The meteor/LL builds tend to use lower APS but more APoC and a few pieces with -AP cost of meteor. I don't even know about SB builds, but I imagine they're like meteor and not quite as dependent on APS, though more APS means more procs, so high APS is good for that.

CMWW needs high APS to get lots of tics off WW and to let you cast a lot of WWs while keeping mobs frozen. It can work at lower gear levels but it works a lot better at high APS, as I said before. It's the only melee type build I've used, and it works so well I have no desire to try others, though the button mashing does get annoying.

32 mil is a great amount to get a good starter set for whichever build you want. If you keep with CMWW I recommend against going with Zuni pieces. The ring doesn't have IAS or crit base so you either have to spend a ton to get IAS, or you have to make it up on other pieces. The boots are decent for dps but if you use the zuni chest you lose the IAS from a Tal's chest.

With your budget I'd just keep whatever cheap boots you have or can get without spending much gold, and get a couple good rare rings with like 4-4.5% crit and 8-9% IAS. Other stats like vit, str, int, resist are good but not necessary to begin with. Eventually you might wish to use a nat's ring and boots for the 2pc bonus. The 7% crit from the set is great, but the set bonus probably isn't worth it with your budget just yet.

However, I'd start with picking a weapon. If you go for a chant MH with IAS, you'll be in a VERY good position to jump to 2.73 APS+, which will make life much easier and will show you the true power of the build. Depending on the actual APS of the weapon you'll need some amount of IAS on other pieces to reach the breakpoint, but you can combine it with a Chanto OH for even more IAS. Also, I recommend you keep the Storm Crow. You'll need the APoC on it and the LoH. You can get the IAS on other pieces.

If you gear CMWW, forget about your dps number. It will go up as you stack all the crit and IAS, but might be a little low because of the weapon. Don't worry though, because once you get the APS and crit for the build, with a decent amount of armor and resists you can run Shocking Aspect over Energy Armor, which practically doubles your effective damage done. You'll definitely notice the difference in kill times once you use SA, and you'll be able to do like 5-7x your char sheet dps.

[maka]

I'm just gonna stop answering people's questions about CM builds. Getting schooled by Loroese time and time again is getting tiring.

[Loroese]

maka, on 22 February 2013 - 11:35 PM, said:

I'm just gonna stop answering people's questions about CM builds. Getting schooled by Loroese time and time again is getting tiring.

I just happend to have some spare time, which has been in short supply lately. Everyone's advice has been pretty solid, I just tried to fill in a few holes.

[Verror]

Hey again, too bad for me I bought some stuff b4 Lorese's 2nd post, but I'm good at wasting money both in game and IRL >.>

Got the 3 part zunimassa's b4 i saw it, but i did get a Chantodo wand. My ias is clearly still way too low, but im doing probly 5x the dmg I was this morning, so I'll consider it a success for now!

Tho I clearly wasted some gold, I didn't even spend close to 1/2 my budget, and I have my old stormshield that I was using (luckily I found that one, lol) and I found a decent Unity ring while testing the new gear, so I'll be able to make some gold back and work towards more ias and crit!

Thx again, I owe y'all one.

http://us.battle.net...160/hero/699804

[Loroese]

Some numbers to throw out at you: with that chanto (+0.21, 5% IAS), you need 49% IAS on the rest of your gear to reach 2.5 APS breakpoint, and 63% to reach 2.73 breakpoint. I strongly recommend aiming for the 2.5 breakpoint at least. Your effective dps will be even higher. You will also gain a lot more effective dps by increasing your crit to 40-45%. That's really hard to do with a storm crow and zuni ring, unless you get crit on one or the other, which is why I recommended against the zuni set for CMWW.

The zuni set does work though, and I'm using it for the 2pc, but it isn't easy or cheap. The problem with your zuni ring is that it's missing your 2 most important stats that a ring can have, crit and IAS. A crit Storm Crow is great, but not a complete priority until you can reach 2.5 APS. Also, chanto OH will be a bit better than the triumvirate, since you lose out on about half the bonus damage because you're using a chanto. Basically, either use black weapon + Triumvirate or chanto 2pc. Most go for Chanto, since the triumvirate practically limits you to 2.5 APS.

On the other hand, you have a pretty good starting set for Archon, if you wanted to give that a try. It's a lot simpler, and you'd be best off with MP0, but your dps is fine for it and the IAS/Crit don't matter as much.

On a side note, if you want to know IAS values needed to reach APS breakpoints, I have a table in my DPS/EHP spreadsheet that has the base APS of swords, wands, or chanto's and various IAS values on each, and it shows the required IAS needed to reach each breakpoint.

[Bribous]

maka, on 22 February 2013 - 11:05 PM, said:

@Bribous: Prazer!

@Maka: Português de Portugal ? :-) Ora pois, cá estamos a matar Diablos e monstrinhos! Hehehehehe

Anyway, let me hijack this thread a little bit: What would you guys recomend, on the lowest possible budget, change on my gear to reach the 2.73APS breakpoint ? I would like to maintain (or upgrade) my current EHP and life recover if possible.

http://us.battle.net...3/hero/25590481

http://d3up.com/b/138219

I'm currently on 2.51, and happy with it. But there's always room for improvement.

Edited by Bribous, 26 February 2013 - 06:39 PM.

[Loroese]

Bribous, on 26 February 2013 - 06:38 PM, said:

maka, on 22 February 2013 - 11:05 PM, said:

@Bribous: Prazer!

@Maka: Português de Portugal ? :-) Ora pois, cá estamos a matar Diablos e monstrinhos! Hehehehehe

Anyway, let me hijack this thread a little bit: What would you guys recomend, on the lowest possible budget, change on my gear to reach the 2.73APS breakpoint ? I would like to maintain (or upgrade) my current EHP and life recover if possible.

http://us.battle.net...3/hero/25590481

http://d3up.com/b/138219

I'm currently on 2.51, and happy with it. But there's always room for improvement.

Spec first, drop shatter for deep freeze. You can use Cold Snap if you want better freeze lock on mobs or for ubers. Drop temporal flux for Evocation or UA. Drop Energy Armor for Storm Armor - Shocking Aspect. If needed, switch diamond shards to crystal shell and lower MP until you can survive with SA. SA greatly improves farming efficiency.

Gear wise, you can keep at the 2.5 APS breakpoint if you want but since you already have Chanto 2pc and prowler bracers, I'd move to 2.73. The alternative would be to drop the chanto set and switch to black dagger+triumvirate and upgrade your zuni ring to an IAS version (or swap your chest for a tal's chest, but you'd lose a lot of resist that way). If you go that way you want a 10-11% IAS dagger, either with socket or crit damage and as much or more dps than your current chanto. This route will probably give you the best dps increase, but then you're pretty much stuck at 2.5 breakpoint. It also leaves your crit a little low but you're just under 45% with scoundrel so it's not terrible. Still, 50%+ buffed is more ideal (and don't try swapping to pinpoint barrier to make up the crit, SA >> 5% crit from pinpoint).

If you want to see the 2.73 breakpoint, you'll have to drop the zuni ring and chest for tal's chest and some ring with IAS. I'd recommend a nat's ring, then swap your boots to nat's boots and you'll gain 7% CC in the process. You'll keep about the same resist and armor, though you'll lose a bit of vit. I wouldn't worry too much about the vit though as 40k is more than sufficient and you can run with 30-35k at lower MP pretty easily. As long as you're above 30k you should be good for now. Besides, it'll be cheaper to move the vit to other pieces like shoulders.

You can also look into glove upgrades, same IAS and int but with higher crit and maybe resist and/or armor, but I'd save that til later.

[Bribous]

^ Will try those tonight! Thanks Loroese! First I'll do the changes on actives/passives, and after that will do some research on the AH.

I do have nat's ring and boots (for my DH), I'll try do put them and see what happens. And I have one Tal Rasha plate, but a crappy one. I'll let you guys know what happened later/tomorrow.