TheRabidDeer, on 08 February 2013 - 05:12 AM, said:
Lord_Jaroh, on 08 February 2013 - 04:49 AM, said:
TheRabidDeer, on 08 February 2013 - 03:52 AM, said:
Somebody tell me why D3 is worse than D2 in the current state.
Limited to no randomness within the levels/dungeons.
Terrible Skill system.
No Stat system.
A lack of character investment.
Gear check walls.
The tone of the game.
The item design.
The monster design.
Lack of waypoint use.
Lack of innovation and growth within the genre, and the series itself.
"Save or die" mentality in regards to monster strength/abilities.
Catering to the lowest common denominator in design.
I could keep going, but that's a start. It'd be nice if the game actually became worthy of its name, but I'm not holding my breath.
I like how you ask for what was worse in D3 and then you simply dismiss criticism without providing anythin to back it up.
Randomness was worthless in D2, you teleported everywhere. You just held tele until you found what you were looking for. We actively play and use more of any given level in D3 than we ever did in D2.
Randomness was a cornerstone of Diablo 1 and 2; that you played the game and it was a different layout every time. This was something that Diablo had that no other aRPG had. In Diablo 3, instead of expanding upon that randomness and making it better, the developers instead decide to get rid of it from the overworld, and make the "chunks" within dungeons so large, that they may as well not be random.
I did not happen to "tele" everywhere until I found what I was looking for. I played the game.
Stat system? You mean enough str to hold gear, enough dex to max block (depending on char) then VIT VIT VIT? That is not a stat system
As opposed to Main stat and Vit? Great improvement!
The difference, you didn't have to just put enough strength to wear your gear and dex to block and then more vitality; you could actually make a character with vastly different stats if you wanted, and more importantly, you could make it through the game with those different stats! I could play a shout barb and pump my mana if I want to, and still play the game. Just because you chose to make a cookie-cutter doesn't mean everyone else did. And the point was, it was your choice to make that build. In Diablo 3, you have no choice.
Lack of character investment? It takes ages to hit P100, and a P100 char is VASTLY different than a normal level 60. In terms of MF, dmg, health, and defense.
By character investment I mean that there are no "permanent" choices that you make to make your character different from others. And what kind of arguement is P100 is different than a Level 60? A level 99 is different than a Level 1 as well, in terms of stats. Big deal. How about making a P100 different from another P100? or even a Level 60 different from a Level 60?
This game would have been vastly improved had they done away with leveling altogether as well as different difficulty levels. Not that I would have liked to see that either in a Diablo game, but from a design standpoint, it would have made for a much better game.
I agree there is still a bit of a gear check wall, but its not that bad anymore.
And I still think it is bad, and needs vast improvement. It would have worked wonderfully had Inferno actually been what they announced the level as, as more of a challenge thing, where you were level 60 and everything else was a flat 61+. They should have got rid of "level 61+" items, and removed the item hunt from Inferno. Make Inferno more like "God Mode" in God of War, a "challenge" to beat that requires skill and thinking, rather than just another item wall.
Story was average, I never was invested in the Diablo storyline though, so I cant really comment
And I played Diablo because of the well designed story and lore. That and you could ignore the story while playing the game. if you wished. This was especially important the 900th time you've played through the game. The developers of Diablo 3 seem to have forgotten that part and crafted not only a story that any 5 year old would find silly, but they shove it in your face every chance you get, forcing you to replay quests over and over in order to go anywhere!
Tone? What is wrong with the tone?
The tone does not have that dark and forboding feel to it that Diablo is known for. The characters have become too stylized, as well as the monsters and many of the backgrounds, to the point that it doesn't feel like Diablo anymore. It is why people are looking at games such as Grim Dawn and Path of Exile and calling them more Diablo sequels than Diablo 3!
Item design is hugely improved, I am looking forward to what they will add in the expansion given how much LoD improved D2's itemization
The itemization was severely lacking at launch, both in quantity of items as well as quality of items, as well as the design of uniques, the number of mods, crafting, the item tiers, the hunt itself, and much of that has not improved. They have given a few more high level Legendaries. And? I don't care how much an expansion improved upon the original. I care with what D3 launched with. Ford doesn't go back to the Model T every time it designs a new vehicle. It takes what has been put in the past and improves upon it. Should we not have air conditioning in cars because the original ones didn't come with it?
Monster design? What is wrong with them? Aside from some annoying monsters (like the guys that can leap and are immune while leaping)... I see nothing wrong
The monster design aesthetically as well as their attacks are lacking. Not only that, but we were promised monsters that were actually tougher as difficulties increased, with new and varied attacks that make them more interesting to fight a second and third time over. Design-wise, many monsters are far too stylized. As well, there is no variety in monsters as you progress. I would rather have had the blue/green/red etc colored palettes of monsters to visually show we were fighting tougher beasts (Devilkins as opposed to Fallen for example).
Waypoint use? Used all the time, no clue what youre talking about. Do you play the game if you think they arent used? Itd be nicer if we could waypoint between acts, but we use them all the time.
The point of waypoints in the second game was so we could quickly get to where we wish to and start killing. We could jump between acts and areas as well as go to town when we have no town portals. There is no point to the waypoint system in Diablo 3. You don't have town portal scrolls, so you never run out. There are checkpoints that have no bearing on the waypoints that save your progress in the game, and you use the story to jump around the game. This is just one example of how little actual thought was put into the design of this game!
What would you innovate? How? People complained when they removed the stat system, so how do you innovate in a series with fans that seem to hate any deviation from D2 at all?
Oh, I don't know. How about looking how Grim Dawn, Path of Exile, Lineage Eternal, Torchlight 2 are all improving upon the genre, or adding new ideas to it? Removing the stat system was not innovating! That was simply removing something that they couldn't be bothered with trying to "fix" (actually it was to tie people closer to items, and in that respect closer to the auction house, but that is besides the point). They didn't replace it with anything new. I could list dozens of improvements to the game that would fall within the style of Diablo. I'm sure that if the developers put their mind to it, they could have done something rather than trying to re-invent the wheel.
AH/RMAH is no different than the trade/barter system in D2, just simplified and efficient. What used to take hours or days of looking in trade channels or posting on d2jsp to trade your 20 sojs or your WF for the item of your choice, you can sell your "soj" or "wf" equivalent for a currency and buy what you want that way.
What is the point of hunting for items in an item hunt game when you can just buy what you want when you want?
I dont understand what you mean by "save or die" for monster strength/abilities
Either you have the numbers to withstand an attack or you don't, through gear checks and random rolls (damage spikes). There is no skill involved in dodging/avoiding attacks. This is what they promised not to have in the game, by the way, and yet, there it is, plain as day, throughout the game, but especially prevalent in Inferno.
How did they cater to LCD?
They took away weapon attack types.
They took away elemental weapon types.
They took away weapon swapping.
They took away voluntary stat choices.
They took away permanent skill choices.
They reduced the number of gems.
They reduced the number of shrines.
They got rid of Stamina, and introduced new "resources" that add nothing to the game.
They added many tips and such that show up even when you turn them off in the menu.
They simplified the stat system.
They reduced white items to being worthless.
These are just a few things off the top of my head.
Multiplayer is the same in D3 as it is in D2 outside of PvP. Blame the community of people, not the game
No, I blame the game design, and designers for not creating incentive to actually play multiplayer within a multiplayer game.
Online only? Valid argument for some, but many didnt ever play offline and those that did were to create a character build to try so that they didnt have to level one up fresh and learn they hated it, wasting time.
Online only is a requirement to funnel everyone through their auction house, in the hopes they will spend money. It certainly didn't help with bots and dupes as they said it would.