353 replies to this topic

[FoxBatD2]

Indimix, on 07 February 2013 - 05:38 PM, said:

The only ones who have the numbers, are Blizzard ppl, unfortunately, they wont share them with us, so, we only have speculations.

Patch 1.07 will start showing # of people logged in I believe, so it shouldn't be that much longer.

[Daemaro]

I'm just going to link my post from the last metacritic thread we had.

http://www.diablofan..._60#entry986682

Rating systems are garbage because often the media ratings are bloated a little and the "user ratings" are filled with sock puppets and just generally displeased people placing completely uneducated ratings on something because they're angry.

Is the game the greatest game ever made? No. Is it Diablo 1? No. Is it Diablo 2? No. Were those games even really that similar? Not really but that's a little debatable. For better or worse the franchise was picked up many many years after the last and the series sort of rebooted.

It sort of reminds me of the newest Devil May Cry game, DmC. Older fans screamed and through a fit about it because it was so drastically different from the previous games. I personally liked it but that's beside the point. The fact is Capcom was NOT going to make a Devil May Cry 5 using the same developers. So we're left with the choice would we rather have Devil May cry just die at number 4 or would we at least like a chance for the series through the Ninja Theory reboot DmC? Personally I hate to see any popular series die off completely so for better or worse we ended up with DmC.

Now if we draw some parallels here, this wasn't even a matter of Blizzard not allowing the old development team to make D3, the old development team is disperesed and scattered about different companies. So again we face the decision would you rather never have had Diablo 3, or would you have rather gave a chance to the new development team? I'd rather give the chance. Some of you may not be happy with the outcome and you say it's not like Diablo 2, that's fine. That's perfectly valid, it's not like Diablo 2. It was made by a different team that tried to breathe life into the series, and despite some of the flaws I personally feel that they did a pretty good job. Not all die hard fans of the previous games are going to like Diablo 3, and that's natural because it does differ a good bit, it's also been a pretty large gap of time since the previous titles.

To everyone who is still sticking around for the game, whether you like it or you hope it will improve, we're all here for the same reason. We WANT to see it succeed, we enjoy at least some aspect of it.  

If you hate Diablo 3 and no longer have any hope or interest for it anymore, why are you in the Diablo 3 section? Please do not come into threads just to nay say and cause controversy.

At any rate, we're all reasonable folks and I imagine we can keep this thread civil and not tear at eachother's throats. Right? Don't make me get the hose.

<3

[maka]

Jaetch, on 07 February 2013 - 10:39 PM, said:

[snob]My friends list is almost at max capacity and I don't even talk to these people. You guys want to rent some of them?[/snob]

Meh. I bet they're just using you for the sex.

[Indimix]

Daemaro, on 08 February 2013 - 12:17 AM, said:

I'm just going to link my post from the last metacritic thread we had.

http://www.diablofan..._60#entry986682

Rating systems are garbage because often the media ratings are bloated a little and the "user ratings" are filled with sock puppets and just generally displeased people placing completely uneducated ratings on something because they're angry.

Is the game the greatest game ever made? No. Is it Diablo 1? No. Is it Diablo 2? No. Were those games even really that similar? Not really but that's a little debatable. For better or worse the franchise was picked up many many years after the last and the series sort of rebooted.

It sort of reminds me of the newest Devil May Cry game, DmC. Older fans screamed and through a fit about it because it was so drastically different from the previous games. I personally liked it but that's beside the point. The fact is Capcom was NOT going to make a Devil May Cry 5 using the same developers. So we're left with the choice would we rather have Devil May cry just die at number 4 or would we at least like a chance for the series through the Ninja Theory reboot DmC? Personally I hate to see any popular series die off completely so for better or worse we ended up with DmC.

Now if we draw some parallels here, this wasn't even a matter of Blizzard not allowing the old development team to make D3, the old development team is disperesed and scattered about different companies. So again we face the decision would you rather never have had Diablo 3, or would you have rather gave a chance to the new development team? I'd rather give the chance. Some of you may not be happy with the outcome and you say it's not like Diablo 2, that's fine. That's perfectly valid, it's not like Diablo 2. It was made by a different team that tried to breathe life into the series, and despite some of the flaws I personally feel that they did a pretty good job. Not all die hard fans of the previous games are going to like Diablo 3, and that's natural because it does differ a good bit, it's also been a pretty large gap of time since the previous titles.

To everyone who is still sticking around for the game, whether you like it or you hope it will improve, we're all here for the same reason. We WANT to see it succeed, we enjoy at least some aspect of it.  

If you hate Diablo 3 and no longer have any hope or interest for it anymore, why are you in the Diablo 3 section? Please do not come into threads just to nay say and cause controversy.

At any rate, we're all reasonable folks and I imagine we can keep this thread civil and not tear at eachother's throats. Right? Don't make me get the hose.

<3

I agree, except when you say that if we don't like the game we should move on, that is some sort of argument by dismissal.

But, as you said, we all want the game to succeed, and I must admit that the pre-inferno game was a really nice experience.

[shaggy]

Indimix, on 08 February 2013 - 01:15 AM, said:

I agree, except when you say that if we don't like the game we should move on, that is some sort of argument by dismissal.

Daemaro, on 08 February 2013 - 12:17 AM, said:

If you hate Diablo 3 and no longer have any hope or interest for it anymore, why are you in the Diablo 3 section? Please do not come into threads just to nay say and cause controversy.

[Daemaro]

Exactly. Sorry if my statement wasn't clear enough. People who have NO interest in the game other than to highlight all it's flaws was who I was addressing. Not people who are unsatisfied but still care.

My apologies if that wasn't clear enough.

[Indimix]

Well, thing is, in this site (and many others) "I dont like that particular feature" = hater.

Not that I think that way.

Edited by Indimix, 08 February 2013 - 03:14 AM.

[Nodnarb]

All good things must come to an end.  Nostalgia and hope sometimes aren't enough.  It was fun though.  Thanks

[Bleu42]

maka, on 07 February 2013 - 10:11 PM, said:

Bleu42, on 07 February 2013 - 10:08 PM, said:

Yet my F-list is close to half at any given time. Anecdotal evidence is fun!

Maybe you continually updated your f-list (kept meeting and adding more people), while mine has remained pretty much the same since the first 2 months or so.

My F-list is the same as it has been since Blizzard implemented real ID friends, barring about 2 people.

[overneathe]

Indimix, on 08 February 2013 - 03:14 AM, said:

Well, thing is, in this site (and many others) "I dont like that particular feature" = hater.

Not that I think that way.

I've not seen that exactly. What I see is usually "why do you not like it" "argument" "counter argument" "dismissal" "call hater". Because at the end if you don't want to talk about it, or argument yourself properly, why QQ in the first place? Forums are for discussion, not for venting. Well, sometimes they can be for venting, but it can become a mess really quickly.

[TheRabidDeer]

Hiderius, on 07 February 2013 - 04:53 AM, said:

Blizzard is Unaware of Diablo 3's Downfall...

It cannot be denied that Diablo 3 got mixed reviews, and substantial negative feedback post-release. See for example very low 3.8/10 Metacritic user rating (7864 Ratings), and average user rating of 2.2 / 5 on Amazon (3,116 customer reviews).

Diablo 3 sold record amounts, yet many fans are seriously disappointed. Now there's new Action RPGs such as Path of Exile which many D3 fans prefer to play instead of D3.

Example: how can the low-budget Path of Exile be able to directly compete against Diablo 3? Diablo 3 is supposed to be the Triple A, blockbuster and gold-standard of the Action RPG genre! So something is amiss.

If budget isn't the cause, then it must be the faulty game design of the lead developers (repetitive gameplay, narrow restrictive level-design, no open world to explore, semi-cartoony washed out graphics, mediocre storyline etc).

Due to so much disappointment among fans it's questionable whether Diablo 4 and 5 would sell as well if Blizzard continues down the current game-design path.

I'm a big fan of the Diablo Franchise so I'm concerned about the disappointing state of Diablo 3.

Blizzard appears to be unaware of Diablo 3's downfall and severly overestimates itself. So they won't really listen to fans nor take essential measures to improve Diablo 3 and redeem the Diablo franchise.

Blizzard can pretend that Diablo 3 is the best Action RPG to date, but many fans think otherwise and will be reluctant to buy another Diablo game.

The Demise of Blizzard

The downfall of Diablo 3 could potentially be the turning point where Blizzard Entertainment itself enters its own demise, unless they change course.

I hope Blizzard can restore the Diablo Franchise to its former glory, but time will tell.

This post has no merit at all. You cite metacritic for example, which got huge numbers of negative votes because of connectivity issues at launch, which no longer exist. Further, groupthink mentality and smear campaigns lowered its rating even more. Further evidence that there was smearing done, the sheer number of votes. Find me another game that has even CLOSE to 7800 votes on metacritic. Most popular games are in the 1000-1500 uservote range, yet D3 somehow managed to get 7 times that many votes. Why? Because people were frustrated with connections. Maybe frustrated with how difficult inferno was too.

Now look at the game:
No connection issues
Inferno is reasonable
Alternate leveling path once you hit 60 (which is nearly as hard as D2's leveling, though not quite)
Good item droprates
More content being added

D3 is in every way better than D2, people just have an attachment to D2. People complain about "repetition" in D3, even though D2 was far more repetitious. Once upon a time, cow runs were the best thing ever. Then Baal runs. Endlessly teleporting to Baals throne room to fight the same minions, over and over. Want a non-duped Zod rune for your runeword? HAH! Good luck!

Somebody tell me why D3 is worse than D2 in the current state.

[Lord_Jaroh]

TheRabidDeer, on 08 February 2013 - 03:52 AM, said:

Somebody tell me why D3 is worse than D2 in the current state.

Limited to no randomness within the levels/dungeons.
Terrible Skill system.
No Stat system.
A lack of character investment.
Gear check walls.
The story.
The tone of the game.
The item design.
The monster design.
Lack of waypoint use.
Lack of innovation and growth within the genre, and the series itself.
The AH/RMAH.
"Save or die" mentality in regards to monster strength/abilities.
Catering to the lowest common denominator in design.
Multiplayer lacking.
Online only.

I could keep going, but that's a start.  It'd be nice if the game actually became worthy of its name, but I'm not holding my breath.

[TheRabidDeer]

Lord_Jaroh, on 08 February 2013 - 04:49 AM, said:

TheRabidDeer, on 08 February 2013 - 03:52 AM, said:

Somebody tell me why D3 is worse than D2 in the current state.

Limited to no randomness within the levels/dungeons.
Terrible Skill system.
No Stat system.
A lack of character investment.
Gear check walls.
The story.
The tone of the game.
The item design.
The monster design.
Lack of waypoint use.
Lack of innovation and growth within the genre, and the series itself.
The AH/RMAH.
"Save or die" mentality in regards to monster strength/abilities.
Catering to the lowest common denominator in design.
Multiplayer lacking.
Online only.

I could keep going, but that's a start.  It'd be nice if the game actually became worthy of its name, but I'm not holding my breath.

Randomness was worthless in D2, you teleported everywhere. You just held tele until you found what you were looking for. We actively play and use more of any given level in D3 than we ever did in D2.
Stat system? You mean enough str to hold gear, enough dex to max block (depending on char) then VIT VIT VIT? That is not a stat system
Lack of character investment? It takes ages to hit P100, and a P100 char is VASTLY different than a normal level 60. In terms of MF, dmg, health, and defense.
I agree there is still a bit of a gear check wall, but its not that bad anymore.
Story was average, I never was invested in the Diablo storyline though, so I cant really comment
Tone? What is wrong with the tone?
Item design is hugely improved, I am looking forward to what they will add in the expansion given how much LoD improved D2's itemization
Monster design? What is wrong with them? Aside from some annoying monsters (like the guys that can leap and are immune while leaping)... I see nothing wrong
Waypoint use? Used all the time, no clue what youre talking about. Do you play the game if you think they arent used? Itd be nicer if we could waypoint between acts, but we use them all the time.
What would you innovate? How? People complained when they removed the stat system, so how do you innovate in a series with fans that seem to hate any deviation from D2 at all?
AH/RMAH is no different than the trade/barter system in D2, just simplified and efficient. What used to take hours or days of looking in trade channels or posting on d2jsp to trade your 20 sojs or your WF for the item of your choice, you can sell your "soj" or "wf" equivalent for a currency and buy what you want that way.
I dont understand what you mean by "save or die" for monster strength/abilities
How did they cater to LCD?
Multiplayer is the same in D3 as it is in D2 outside of PvP. Blame the community of people, not the game
Online only? Valid argument for some, but many didnt ever play offline and those that did were to create a character build to try so that they didnt have to level one up fresh and learn they hated it, wasting time.

[DreamWalker]

maka, on 07 February 2013 - 05:40 PM, said:

DreamWalker, on 07 February 2013 - 11:58 AM, said:

I love finding items(legendarys+sets) and identifying it, even tho its a rubbish piece of loot , I still had the excitement of thinking: perhaps its a +100m item

This is what this game has degenerated into. In my opinion, very sad.

In what way was d2 not exactly the same ? the price on an item wasn't +100m's it was HR's(High Runes)/Max rolled runewords/d2jsp currency... no degeneration, EXACTLY the same. Atleast thats how i feel, now i just don't have to wait several weeks to sell an item, since i can post it on AH <3. What degenerated was the mindset of people, thinking game developers/companies has to service your every needs, just cause you think something isn't as its suppose to be. Get a grip and learn how the real world works. Deal with it or don't participate!

[Bagstone]

DreamWalker, on 08 February 2013 - 08:55 AM, said:

maka, on 07 February 2013 - 05:40 PM, said:

DreamWalker, on 07 February 2013 - 11:58 AM, said:

I love finding items(legendarys+sets) and identifying it, even tho its a rubbish piece of loot , I still had the excitement of thinking: perhaps its a +100m item

This is what this game has degenerated into. In my opinion, very sad.

In what way was d2 not exactly the same ? the price on an item wasn't +100m's it was HR's(High Runes)/Max rolled runewords/d2jsp currency... no degeneration, EXACTLY the same. Atleast thats how i feel, now i just don't have to wait several weeks to sell an item, since i can post it on AH <3. What degenerated was the mindset of people, thinking game developers/companies has to service your every needs, just cause you think something isn't as its suppose to be. Get a grip and learn how the real world works. Deal with it or don't participate!

To the huge majority of players it was not what you described. Actually, I don't know anyone who perceived D2 that way. None of the people I know who played D2 ever used public trading.

[DreamWalker]

Bagstone, on 08 February 2013 - 09:04 AM, said:

DreamWalker, on 08 February 2013 - 08:55 AM, said:

maka, on 07 February 2013 - 05:40 PM, said:

DreamWalker, on 07 February 2013 - 11:58 AM, said:

I love finding items(legendarys+sets) and identifying it, even tho its a rubbish piece of loot , I still had the excitement of thinking: perhaps its a +100m item

This is what this game has degenerated into. In my opinion, very sad.

In what way was d2 not exactly the same ? the price on an item wasn't +100m's it was HR's(High Runes)/Max rolled runewords/d2jsp currency... no degeneration, EXACTLY the same. Atleast thats how i feel, now i just don't have to wait several weeks to sell an item, since i can post it on AH <3. What degenerated was the mindset of people, thinking game developers/companies has to service your every needs, just cause you think something isn't as its suppose to be. Get a grip and learn how the real world works. Deal with it or don't participate!

To the huge majority of players it was not what you described. Actually, I don't know anyone who perceived D2 that way. None of the people I know who played D2 ever used public trading.

So what you're telling me is, you didn't trade with any one else than your friends ? And from what i understand from your statement the HUGE majority didn't trade with any one else than their friends... and most people didn't like to find zaka/tal chest/shako/eth titans/ and a lot of other cool uniques.

Well, everyone i knew loved to find lewt leveling and trading and still do. So maybe, just maybe, a game can be played in more than one way, wouldn't you say ?

I play diablo this way cause this is what keeps me going. If you can't enjoy the game in the way you wanna play it... don't play the game... simple as that.

I'm just getting fed up with people complaining about this game, it's been like this since day one. If you liked d2 better, go play d2, this is a new game....
Emagine if Blizz just launched D2 with better graphics, rest would be the same, same content, same loot, no new runewords, no new ubers... everything the same. Now try emagine the QQ about that... OMFG YOU SPENT 12 YEARS ON THIS ???!!!, we would have exactly the same QQ'ing we have now, would just come from an other group of fans.

Edited by DreamWalker, 08 February 2013 - 09:39 AM.

[Bagstone]

Woaaaaah... calm down. I like D3, and I think despite all its flaws (no game is flawless) it's a great game. It's better than D2 (otherwise I would just go back and play D2, it's still on my hard drive) and it's much better than D2 at release. I'm actually one of the few defending D3 over and over again here, and all of what you said is almost exactly the same what I said before, including in this thread. So please please please calm down a bit. Just browse some of my other posts and you should see that we actually have the same mindset when it comes to evaluating D3 :-)

I just wanted to point out that trading in D2 is *different* than trading in D3. It was cumbersome, required you to establish connection via forums. I didn't know D2jsp back then because I was mainly active in a German community, but I visited the trading forums occasionally and I was always like "what the hell are they talking about, 3 SoJs or some HRs just to get this one item, I haven't seen either of these in years of playing". So I never engaged in trading, and yes, I played self-found and traded only with my RL friends.On this German forum there was a survey a few years ago about how many people never used public trading and it was the majority. Can you believe that? Even though these people had a forum account and were active on the forum, they never traded anything. Add to that the people who just played the game and never ever visit any forums at all. It's really just a minority who did trading in D2. And this is the huge difference, trading in D3 is so much easier because the AH is just "in your face" when you enter the game, but in D2 for many people items did not have a price tag. See what I'm saying? :-)

Edited by Bagstone, 08 February 2013 - 10:10 AM.

[DreamWalker]

I perfectly calm sorry, might have misunderstood you a bit in the previous post... I just thought majority was trading  since majority of my friends did and if they didn't, they were to learn it from the rest of us. And yeah there's a lot more trading "in your face" as you call it, but that's a good thing imo since it was so "underground" in D2 apparently. I personaly HATED trading in D2... All the dupes, all the scammers, and the endless amount of hours spent in public trade games... ZZZzzzZZzzzZZZZzzzz
again sorry if it came out as being upset, thats just how i tend to write

Edited by DreamWalker, 08 February 2013 - 10:15 AM.

[Bagstone]

DreamWalker, on 08 February 2013 - 10:14 AM, said:

there's a lot more trading "in your face" as you call it, but that's a good thing imo since it was so "underground" in D2 apparently. I personaly HATED trading in D2... All the dupes, all the scammers, and the endless amount of hours spent in public trade games...

Exactly. Besides the fact that I never found something useful to engage in public trading (HR, SoJ) the fact that I was always worried about just getting a dupe or maybe even get scammed was another reason to never enter this part of the game in 12 years. Trading in D2 was underground - that's a perfect description of what it was :-)

At first I also felt like the AH in D3 was a good thing. It helped me to catch up to my friends, because my D3 start was three months delayed (after waiting years for it... meh). It's still good sometimes if you just want to try out a new build but you don't have the suitable gear right now, or you feel like trying out another class and want to play around with their skills without farming equipment for your new twink for weeks. But that price tag thing is an issue because if I find a perfect dex crit Mempo, what do I do? Do I sell it for 1 billion to get some updates for my wizard, or do I just give it to my DH friend? He doesn't have the money to return the favor, so essentially I just picked up ~$300, and instead of significantly improving my character or my wallet's condition, I just put that thing on top of my friend's head. I tell myself that of course I would give it to my friend, but I'm afraid that if that situation ever happens I might be tempted to "cheat" on him, not tell him that I found his dream helm and sell it. => That's why I think BoA items are great; I won't be able to trade with my friends either, but at least I'm not tempted to sell the item on the AH. And that's why I'm looking forward to 1.07 ;-)

Edited by Bagstone, 08 February 2013 - 10:29 AM.

[DreamWalker]

Bagstone, on 08 February 2013 - 10:27 AM, said:

DreamWalker, on 08 February 2013 - 10:14 AM, said:

there's a lot more trading "in your face" as you call it, but that's a good thing imo since it was so "underground" in D2 apparently. I personaly HATED trading in D2... All the dupes, all the scammers, and the endless amount of hours spent in public trade games...

Exactly. Besides the fact that I never found something useful to engage in public trading (HR, SoJ) the fact that I was always worried about just getting a dupe or maybe even get scammed was another reason to never enter this part of the game in 12 years. Trading in D2 was underground - that's a perfect description of what it was :-)

At first I also felt like the AH in D3 was a good thing. It helped me to catch up to my friends, because my D3 start was three months delayed (after waiting years for it... meh). It's still good sometimes if you just want to try out a new build but you don't have the suitable gear right now, or you feel like trying out another class and want to play around with their skills without farming equipment for your new twink for weeks. But that price tag thing is an issue because if I find a perfect dex crit Mempo, what do I do? Do I sell it for 1 billion to get some updates for my wizard, or do I just give it to my DH friend? He doesn't have the money to return the favor, so essentially I just picked up ~$300, and instead of significantly improving my character or my wallet's condition, I just put that thing on top of my friend's head. I tell myself that of course I would give it to my friend, but I'm afraid that if that situation ever happens I might be tempted to "cheat" on him, not tell him that I found his dream helm and sell it. => That's why I think BoA items are great; I won't be able to trade with my friends either, but at least I'm not tempted to sell the item on the AH. And that's why I'm looking forward to 1.07 ;-)

I remember the time before patch 1.0.9 for D2 came out... It was duping hell and hacked items Oculus rings belts and such, it got out of hand. But as soon as they introduced the Ladder system in patch 1.0.9 most of my concerns went away. I actually got my acc banned before 1.0.9,  cause i had 2 sojs equipped, and apparently one of them was duped (is my guess, might have been my wf with 40/15 jewel in or my 4 soc armor with 40/15 jewels in, hehe), anyways i stopped playing for a while, cause that was my lvl 99 amazon that got deleted there. When 1.0.9 came, i startet once again, and never looked back after that

After we hit lvl 60 in D3, my friends and I ran into that problem, wasn't a 1billion gold item, but it was a nice upgrade. We made a deal, when we play together, we share loot, when we play alone, all you find is yours, also, if the value of an item went past a certain amount of gold, lets say 20m(just an example), we would try sell it, rather than just handing it over to the other person. All this seemed fair to us since the lewt is individual now, not like in D2, where its the fastets/most precise/got most room, who got it. But my advice is, get it sorted out before you find the item, will cause less drama Guess it also depends how much your friend is playing compared to you, (does for me, anyway) since i don't want to throw gear at some one who only plays few days a week vs. my 5-7 days a week, but it's kinda up to what you decide is best for you and your friends hope it works our, and yes i'm also looking forward to 1.0.7 \o/