353 replies to this topic

[Bleu42]

Hiderius, on 07 February 2013 - 07:44 AM, said:

Bleu42, on 07 February 2013 - 06:06 AM, said:

Alright, I have to immediately point out that you present zero facts within your first few sentences. Saying such things as 'substantial negative feedback and 'many' fans are disappointed' is unsubstantiated and completely through your prism.

I'm not a hater, I hope they improve Diablo 3 into the best action RPG ever. The 3.8/10 Metacritic user rating (7864 Ratings), and 2.2 / 5 on Amazon (3,116 customer reviews) isn't an anomaly though.

Comparatively Blizzard's Starcraft II: Wings of Liberty got 8.1 / 10 based on 2150 User Ratings.

Punkskelm, on 07 February 2013 - 05:44 AM, said:

Dude please quit the game and move on your just a hater

It's dumb to call names and label people who in fact wish the best for Diablo 3.

Bleu42, on 07 February 2013 - 06:40 AM, said:

What demise? They OWN the mmorpg market, they OWN the RTS market, they CREATED the arpg market. Blizzard isn't going anywhere, for a long time.

Yes Blizzard North created the ARPG genre, but Diablo 3 harmed the franchise and D3 has difficulity to compete with low-budget Path of Exile.

piterek2003_new, on 07 February 2013 - 07:44 AM, said:

Many people say D3 is pay to win, because of the RMAH. This is the most hypocritical thing I heard in my life. D3 can be pay to win regardless of the RMAH, bacause of the hundreds of 3rd party websties and RMAH has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Yes I think the RMAH is fine too. That's only one part of the whole game though.

You just proved my point for me. ~ 10k reviews combined from metacritic and amazon. Didn't D3 sell a couple million? Yet you site these reviews (metacritic itself is a terrible judgement of games) as facts.

Also, Blizzard north WAS Blizzard. It was a studio of Blizzard, just like every gaming studio is part of a company.

And finally, again you're just saying opinions to use them like facts, such as the 'D3 has difficulty to compete with PoE'. I'm sorry, based on what exactly? Your personal feelings? Because you can have those, but PLEASE stop using them as facts.

[Ghost_Sanguis]

Hiderius, on 07 February 2013 - 04:53 AM, said:

are seriously disappointed. Now there's new Action RPGs such as Path of Exile which many D3 fans prefer to play instead of D3.

Example: how can the low-budget Path of Exile be able to directly compete against Diablo 3?

I'll tell you how. Clever game design and fun game play can trump anything, no matter how much money was put into it.

[romique]

Bleu42, on 07 February 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

You just proved my point for me. ~ 10k reviews combined from metacritic and amazon. Didn't D3 sell a couple million? Yet you site these reviews (metacritic itself is a terrible judgement of games) as facts.

There's also something to this picture: all those reviews were written when the game got released, and you can see some people changing their scores from 3 to 7 now. Diablo 3 failed initially, there's no denying, almost everyone got disappointed in one way or another. But it becomes better, I actually came back and enjoyed another 150 hours of gameplay. This time because I actually liked it, not because I kept on plaing and expecting to like it in the end. The game is shaping into something better and more enjoyable. I don't think it's over, but in no way would I call it even mediocre in its current state. The game is good. Not great though, still plenty to do. And I am one of those people that wish they'd never seen the storyline, don't know how they could fix that.

Also about PoE. People like to point at it and cry that's how the game is done when PoE just left closed beta state. That means no one actually cares to wait until PoE is released, played by actual people, flooded with actual bots and spammers, tested in real environment.   I think I actually heard something like this about torchlight 2 for some time. Can't see anyone doing this now though.

In short: no downfall, Blizz is aware of the game's current state and already made it enjoyable while continuing to make it even better, and we can all go play PoE if we want, but I, for one, don't. Can't see why people are so excited about it tbh, but that's me.

[IgnatiusReilly]

Quote

I'll tell you how. Clever game design and fun game play can trump anything, no matter how much money was put into it.

Outside of skill systems and convoluted passive trees I think most people would agree Diablo 3 has fun game play. If they got anything right, they got the whole monster killing bit down pat. I just think it's ridiculous to say the game is NOT FUN to play. Of course, after 600 hours of Alk runs, then we can probably start talking about boring.

(Though it's not like anyone's forcing you to stick to one act for that long...)

As for the thread... aren't aware? Are you kidding? They just removed the director. How much more aware do they need to be? Do they need to bake you a cake and deliver it to your house with a written apology?

Edited by IgnatiusReilly, 07 February 2013 - 02:51 PM.

[CardinalMDM]

OP, I think your biggest assumption here is that the Diablo franchise was ever one of Blizzard's BIGGEST flagship productions.

From what I know, it started with the original Warcraft.  The original Diablo came next, after much dissention about what it should look like (you mention the "semi-cartoonish graphics" in D3, but the original D1 was conceived in CLAYMATION, believe it or don't...kinda lessens the gore factor) and how it should play, D1 was still a bit hit, though Warcraft 2 kept that particular franchise as Blizzard's biggest.  They came out with Starcraft and Diablo 2, but what really put Blizzard into the full-on mainstream was WoW.

Honestly, people herald "the Diablo franchise" as this shining jewel...but WoW will always have been a bigger success than Diablo, no matter what D3 looked like.  And Diablo, despite getting a big amount of hype, is still way more of an underground success than a mainstream one.  Mainstream Blizzard fans play WoW. Gamers are supposed to play Diablo.

Thing is, even though the core idea of being an action-packed dungeon crawl/loot hunt being largely the same, people who are too nostalgic give in to the ANTI-hype exacerbated by people who think stat point allocation and skill trees and 12 year old ideas of violence are what make Diablo what it "should" be.

Of course, the hypocritical part is that those same people who are "nostalgic" for D2 style gameplay are usually the biggest AH addicts in the community.  They long for the days when their friends could power-level them to greatness, and they could farm the same bosses over and over for the best gear.  Now, D3 forces them to work for it, and they either learn microeconomics and market value to make the most of their gold farming, they purchase massive gaming rigs and download multiboxing software, or they simply dupe and bot their way to getting banned repeatedly...because putting in the time to level characters and get the best gear the hard way (you know, the old-fashioned way) is just unheard of for them.

As for D3 being Blizzard's "siren song"...trust me...patches are coming, an expansion is coming (at least one, if not more than that), and even if D3's launch was rocky, they're already fixing things to add more to the game.  Even if they can't add everything in simple patches, and don't add in "stat point allocation and skill trees," if they're smart, they'll add enough with the expansion to make the game 1) possible to complete fully WITHOUT the Auction House (already is, pretty much), and 2) offer enough avenues for personalization, customization, builds and gear that players are satisfied with how uniquely godly they can make themselves.

[IgnatiusReilly]

Quote

2) offer enough avenues for personalization, customization, builds and gear that players are satisfied with how uniquely godly they can make themselves.

This is really all they need to do to bring back the grumpy D2 players in droves. Add some sort of convoluted stat/skill customizing system that takes months to actually figure out and requires pages and pages of forum discussion to find the optimal build. They could call it the "Skill Dodecahedron".

I mean, no one really wants to play PoE, they just want something to get OCD about, and sadly PoE offers that (if not much else).

Blizzard needs to stop worrying about meaningful customization and start worrying about the illusion of customization by way of offering the player an unprecedented number of bad choices.

Edited by IgnatiusReilly, 07 February 2013 - 03:00 PM.

[JPK]

IgnatiusReilly, on 07 February 2013 - 02:57 PM, said:

Blizzard needs to stop worrying about meaningful customization and start worrying about the illusion of customization by way of offering the player an unprecedented number of bad choices.

Thats exactly D3 atm you know that ?

[Indimix]

The only ones who have the numbers, are Blizzard ppl, unfortunately, they wont share them with us, so, we only have speculations.

However, I had 30 friends (IRL and not) in my friendlist, all of them except one stopped played the game 2 months after, the last one 3 months after, and me, 4 months ago.

That, is a fact, and AFAIK, it's a sort of tendency.

[maka]

Ethezial, on 07 February 2013 - 06:04 AM, said:

I'm on Diablofans for a reason. If I wanted to see these posts I'd go to the Official Diablo 3 forums.

I've said this many, many times, yet people still take the 'fallacy' road: this is Diablo Fans, not Diablo 3 Fans. Get it right.
I love the Diablo series, but I don't like D3 very much.

DreamWalker, on 07 February 2013 - 11:58 AM, said:

I love finding items(legendarys+sets) and identifying it, even tho its a rubbish piece of loot , I still had the excitement of thinking: perhaps its a +100m item

This is what this game has degenerated into. In my opinion, very sad.


EDIT: following up on Indimix's point, my f-list is pretty much empty every time I log on. I guess some people think it's a coincidence.

Edited by maka, 07 February 2013 - 05:57 PM.

[shaggy]

Indimix, on 07 February 2013 - 05:38 PM, said:

The only ones who have the numbers, are Blizzard ppl, unfortunately, they wont share them with us, so, we only have speculations.

That doesn't make those speculations any more accurate, though.  My F List is empty as shit, but my Recent Players list isn't.  That tells me something... maybe my friends weren't actually fans of Diablo.  Like I said before, one guy on my friends list quit D3 within two weeks because it didn't have Recount.  I can't count that as a "true fan."

I understand the point in speculation, but pointing at it as the closest we can come to the truth doesn't actually increase its validity.  It's still guesswork... very inaccurate guesswork.

maka, on 07 February 2013 - 05:40 PM, said:

Ethezial, on 07 February 2013 - 06:04 AM, said:

I'm on Diablofans for a reason. If I wanted to see these posts I'd go to the Official Diablo 3 forums.

I've said this many, many times, yet people still take the 'fallacy' road: this is Diablo Fans, not Diablo 3 Fans. Get it right.
I love the Diablo series, but I don't like D3 very much.

That's not really an excuse to make posts like what the OP did.  This thread is NOT something that belongs anywhere other than a trolltastic forum for disgruntled angsty children.  We've been through how brutally inaccurate the Metacritic scores are.  Daemaro even has a copy/paste response for it.  If I were a mod I'd simply ban anyone who brought it up because there are so many factual holes in the "metacritic argument" that it's, basically, trolling at this point.

Being a "fan" implies that you'll be critical, yet constructive, because you hope for a better tomorrow even though you may be displeased with today.  Nothing about this topic is something that a "fan" of the series would throw out there.  Ingatius even pointed out that they moved Jay Wilson elsewhere in the company and that's the biggest sign that the OP is full of shit.  If Blizzard were so blissfully "unaware" as the OP says, they'd have left Jay there to be a lightning rod for hatred and trolling.  But they didn't.  What they did shows that they are aware and they do care and that topics like this have no place on a fansite because they're steeped in ignorance and stupidity.

As a community we should demand higher standards from ourselves.

Edited by shaggy, 07 February 2013 - 06:16 PM.

[Indimix]

shaggy, on 07 February 2013 - 06:10 PM, said:

Indimix, on 07 February 2013 - 05:38 PM, said:

The only ones who have the numbers, are Blizzard ppl, unfortunately, they wont share them with us, so, we only have speculations.

That doesn't make those speculations any more accurate, though.  My F List is empty as shit, but my Recent Players list isn't.  That tells me something... maybe my friends weren't actually fans of Diablo.  Like I said before, one guy on my friends list quit D3 within two weeks because it didn't have Recount.  I can't count that as a "true fan."

I understand the point in speculation, but pointing at it as the closest we can come to the truth doesn't actually increase its validity.  It's still guesswork... very inaccurate guesswork.

maka, on 07 February 2013 - 05:40 PM, said:

Ethezial, on 07 February 2013 - 06:04 AM, said:

I'm on Diablofans for a reason. If I wanted to see these posts I'd go to the Official Diablo 3 forums.

I've said this many, many times, yet people still take the 'fallacy' road: this is Diablo Fans, not Diablo 3 Fans. Get it right.
I love the Diablo series, but I don't like D3 very much.

That's not really an excuse to make posts like what the OP did.  This thread is NOT something that belongs anywhere other than a trolltastic forum for disgruntled angsty children.  We've been through how brutally inaccurate the Metacritic scores are.  Daemaro even has a copy/paste response for it.  If I were a mod I'd simply ban anyone who brought it up because there are so many factual holes in the "metacritic argument" that it's, basically, trolling at this point.

Being a "fan" implies that you'll be critical, yet constructive, because you hope for a better tomorrow even though you may be displeased with today.  Nothing about this topic is something that a "fan" of the series would throw out there.  Ingatius even pointed out that they moved Jay Wilson elsewhere in the company and that's the biggest sign that the OP is full of shit.  If Blizzard were so blissfully "unaware" as the OP says, they'd have left Jay there to be a lightning rod for hatred and trolling.  But they didn't.  What they did shows that they are aware and they do care and that topics like this have no place on a fansite because they're steeped in ignorance and stupidity.

As a community we should demand higher standards from ourselves.

Actually, it's exactly the contrary, being a fan is being biased toward what you are a fan of.

And, please, stop quoting the name of this site.. it has nothing to do with anything. It's just a name.

Same goes for the game, if instead of Diablo 3 it was Killing Stuff to Sell in the AH 3, the situation would be the same... <- of course I cant prove that, but I don't see why would it be any different.

[Jaetch]

Honestly, what point does this serve? It's repeating the same thing over and over since launch day.

D1 vs. D2 vs. D3. They're not the same. Even Blizzard already stated it clearly that they're not intended to be the same, so accept the game for what it is or just move on to something else to humor you for the time being and let Blizzard do their thing (whether that's improving the game or adding/removing whatever the heck they want to/from it).

Edit: and by answering, I realize I(Did)GAF.

Edited by Jaetch, 07 February 2013 - 07:37 PM.

[Serpenth]

I think Blizzard does know about the downfall which is why they fired Jay Wilson and are about to release their 7th patch since launch?  I'm not saying the game is THAT much better..I'm saying they know.

People already writing off PoE btw while it's still in open beta.  Looks like the hype for it is already on the descent.

[Bagstone]

@Jaetch: You made my day. Awesome. That image is stored in my favs now, thanks.

@Serpenth: What a surprise @PoE... After 7 years of hearing of a WoW killer, I've yet to see one. I wonder how many years it will take me to see the Diablo killer. Just finished TL2, even though it's an indie game I have no idea why anyone would rate this game higher as D3, let alone play it for more than 100 hours. I bet with PoE it'll be the same.

@Indimix: "And, please, stop quoting the name of this site.. it has nothing to do with anything. It's just a name."
Nope. It's not just a name. There's a lot of valid criticism, constructive criticism, and justified criticism. But if someone is posting stuff that is clearly trying to just provoke others without bringing any new food for a fruitful discussion into the community, it's an absolutely valid point to remember this person what the site is about. I said it once before: I don't get why some people spend hours in this forum just to make everyone's life miserable (including their own). D3 will never go back to become D2.1, and anyone to hope so is waiting for it in vain.

Edited by Bagstone, 07 February 2013 - 08:31 PM.

[Hiderius]

Serpenth, on 07 February 2013 - 07:50 PM, said:

I think Blizzard does know about the downfall which is why they fired Jay Wilson and are about to release their 7th patch since launch?  I'm not saying the game is THAT much better..I'm saying they know.

Yes that's a good sign, cause Jay Wilson was the game director of D3. Wilson was responsible for many major game design decisions. Did Blizz announce his replacement?

Edited by Hiderius, 07 February 2013 - 09:27 PM.

[Bleu42]

maka, on 07 February 2013 - 05:40 PM, said:

Ethezial, on 07 February 2013 - 06:04 AM, said:

I'm on Diablofans for a reason. If I wanted to see these posts I'd go to the Official Diablo 3 forums.

I've said this many, many times, yet people still take the 'fallacy' road: this is Diablo Fans, not Diablo 3 Fans. Get it right.
I love the Diablo series, but I don't like D3 very much.

DreamWalker, on 07 February 2013 - 11:58 AM, said:

I love finding items(legendarys+sets) and identifying it, even tho its a rubbish piece of loot , I still had the excitement of thinking: perhaps its a +100m item

This is what this game has degenerated into. In my opinion, very sad.


EDIT: following up on Indimix's point, my f-list is pretty much empty every time I log on. I guess some people think it's a coincidence.

Yet my F-list is close to half at any given time. Anecdotal evidence is fun!

[maka]

Bleu42, on 07 February 2013 - 10:08 PM, said:

Yet my F-list is close to half at any given time. Anecdotal evidence is fun!

Maybe you continually updated your f-list (kept meeting and adding more people), while mine has remained pretty much the same since the first 2 months or so.

Edited by maka, 07 February 2013 - 10:12 PM.

[Indimix]

Maka, stop stealing my answers, is not cool.

I've created my entire friend list the first month of ubber D3 hype, most of them, I'd say, 85%+ were gamers, not casuals, not fans, just gamers. Gone. And most of them, with a bitter taste in their mouths.

Funny thing is, I spoke with most of them about what they thought about the game, and how was their flist... guess what, their's is almost the same as mine, empty.

Edited by Indimix, 07 February 2013 - 10:27 PM.

[Jaetch]

[snob]My friends list is almost at max capacity and I don't even talk to these people. You guys want to rent some of them?[/snob]

[Indimix]

That's why the offline login is there.. is there isn't?...