353 replies to this topic

[Hiderius]

Blizzard is Unaware of Diablo 3's Downfall...

It cannot be denied that Diablo 3 got mixed reviews, and substantial negative feedback post-release. See for example very low 3.8/10 Metacritic user rating (7864 Ratings), and average user rating of 2.2 / 5 on Amazon (3,116 customer reviews).
Comparatively Blizzard's Starcraft II: Wings of Liberty got 8.1 / 10 (2150 User Ratings). That means SC2 has (much) better lead designers who understand the franchise and fanbase.

Diablo 3 sold record amounts, yet many fans are seriously disappointed. Now there's new Action RPGs such as Path of Exile which many D3 fans prefer to play instead of D3.

Example: how can the low-budget Path of Exile be able to directly compete against Diablo 3? Diablo 3 is supposed to be the Triple A, blockbuster and gold-standard of the Action RPG genre! So something is amiss.

If budget isn't the cause, then it must be the faulty game design of the lead developers (repetitive gameplay, narrow restrictive level-design, no open world to explore, semi-cartoony washed out graphics, mediocre storyline etc).

Due to so much disappointment among fans it's questionable whether Diablo 4 and 5 would sell as well if Blizzard continues down the current game-design path.

I'm a big fan of the Diablo Franchise so I'm concerned about the disappointing state of Diablo 3.

Blizzard appears to be unaware of Diablo 3's downfall and severly overestimates itself. So they won't really listen to fans nor take essential measures to improve Diablo 3 and redeem the Diablo franchise.

Blizzard can pretend that Diablo 3 is the best Action RPG to date, but many fans think otherwise and will be reluctant to buy another Diablo game.

Update 1: here's a comparison of the Random Map Generator of Path of Exile VS Diablo 3:

Path of Exile's RMG is bigger, more complex, and has more replayability.
Diablo 3's is simplistic, smaller and fewer routes.



Update 2: After playing Path of Exile for a while. Here's my opinion thus far:

Graphics:
Path of Exile has a darker, more detailed and realistic graphics style. I think the lighting enhances the graphics of PoE a lot, and detailed textures greatly increases immersion.

Whereas Diablo 3's graphics are brighter, and unfortunately the textures are less detailed, more blurry. D3's lighting system is more basic too. Thus D3 doesn't feel as creepy or spooky as it should, and it doesn't draw the player in as much.
Winner: Path of Exile (Feb 2012)

Gameplay:
Combat in PoE is slower, but feels like it has more weight to it, and thus its more satisfying when killing mobs. Diablo 3's combat is faster, but that makes it feel quite like a "meat grinder".
Winner: Undecided (Feb 2012)

Trade System:
I dislike PoE's more primitive semi-Barter system, lack of coins or gold. Because this makes trade for items more difficult when it requires a specific amount of X, Y or Z to get something. Coins, Money was invented for very useful reasons: e.g. to simplify trade between people, and allow easier storage of savings.
Winner: Diablo 3 (Feb 2012).

Skill Tree:
The Skill Tree of Path of Exile is Enormous, and confusing. I give props to D3 for ease of use. However, Path of Exile offers much more freedom and options to create very personalized and more unique characters.
Winner: Path of Exile (Feb 2012).

The Demise of Blizzard

The downfall of Diablo 3 could potentially be the turning point where Blizzard Entertainment itself enters its own demise, unless they change course.

I hope Blizzard can restore the Diablo Franchise to its former glory, but time will tell.

Edited by Hiderius, 16 February 2013 - 08:56 AM.

[Jack00]

D3 didn't live up to the hype, everybody knows it man, move along man.

[Punkskelm]

Dude please quit the game and move on your just a hater

[Ethezial]

I'm on Diablofans for a reason. If I wanted to see these posts I'd go to the Official Diablo 3 forums.

[Bleu42]

Hiderius, on 07 February 2013 - 04:53 AM, said:

Blizzard is Unaware of Diablo 3's Downfall...

It cannot be denied that Diablo 3 got mixed reviews, and substantial negative feedback post-release. See for example very low 3.8/10 Metacritic user rating, and average user rating of 2.2 / 5 on Amazon.

Diablo 3 sold record amounts, yet many fans are seriously disappointed. Now there's new Action RPGs such as Path of Exile which many D3 fans prefer to play instead of D3.

Example: how can the low-budget Path of Exile be able to directly compete against Diablo 3? Diablo 3 is supposed to be the Triple A, blockbuster and gold-standard of the Action RPG genre! So something is amiss.
If budget isn't the cause, then it must be the faulty game design of the lead developers (repetitive gameplay, semi-cartoony washed out graphics, mediocre storyline etc).

Due to so much disappointment among fans it's questionable whether Diablo 4 and 5 would sell as well if Blizzard continues down the current game-design path.

I'm a big fan of the Diablo Franchise so I'm concerned about the disappointing state of Diablo 3.

Blizzard appears to be unaware of Diablo 3's downfall and severly overestimates itself. So they won't really listen to fans nor take essential measures to improve Diablo 3 and redeem the Diablo franchise.

Blizzard can pretend that Diablo 3 is the best Action RPG to date, but many fans think otherwise and will be reluctant to buy another Diablo game.

The Demise of Blizzard

The downfall of Diablo 3 could be the turning point where Blizzard Entertainment itself enters its own demise.

I hope Blizzard can restore the Diablo Franchise to its former glory, but time will tell.

Alright, I have to immediately point out that you present zero facts within your first few sentences. Saying such things as 'substantial negative feedback and 'many' fans are disappointed' is unsubstantiated and completely through your prism. Please remember that it is more likely for someone that dislikes a product to post on the internet compared to someone who likes the product. I'm sorry, you can't just run around spewing opinions backed only by anecdotal evidence as hard facts.

I'm also confused by your first example. Are you really asking how an ARPG can be compared to another ARPG? And more specifically how can an ARPG (PoE) be compared to the grandfather of ARPGS ( the Diablo franchise )? If two games are in the same genre, of course they are going to get compared against one another.

Sorry, but this thread and your post is completely full of, well nothing.

Edited by Bleu42, 07 February 2013 - 06:06 AM.

[NevikJames]

See, I'm not seeing the same thing. Ever since 1.0.7 was teased I've routinely seen a higher percentage of my friends online in D3 than WoW. Granted, a large portion of my friends list has a slight bias due to it existing from my involvement in a Diablo community podcast, but it still goes to show that while there has definitely been a large ebb and flow to Diablo 3, it is far from dead.

Sure D3 didn't live up to the insane hype, but then again there was nothing Blizzard could have done to have lived up to it. That being said, the game has made marked improvements that have put the game in a really good place and will continue to improve as the patches are rolled out; not to mention the first expansion which should hopefully elevate the game to "D2:LoD levels of stature."

If D3 still isn't floating your boat there's nothing preventing you from taking a break and coming back later.

[Irrational]

I agree with this guy. I'm a die hard Diablo fan, but Blizzard's demise started with the success with WoW. Ever since WoW was released they tried to mimic every game after it. Diablo 3 isn't a Diablo game.

[Bleu42]

Irrational, on 07 February 2013 - 06:35 AM, said:

I agree with this guy. I'm a die hard Diablo fan, but Blizzard's demise started with the success with WoW. Ever since WoW was released they tried to mimic every game after it. Diablo 3 isn't a Diablo game.

What demise? They OWN the mmorpg market, they OWN the RTS market, they CREATED the arpg market. Blizzard isn't going anywhere, for a long time. I think this is a mindset that comes from a disdain for anything that's on top. I mean hell, if we taxed all of Americas top 1% earners 100% for one year, it would run the government for 8 days. But people don't care about facts, they feel good seeing the successful be punished, which is why when people just start shouting stuff that's provably untrue, I get a little irritated.

[piterek2003_new]

You know what guys, I really don't understand all the BS Diablo 3 is getting. Sure I see many problems with the game, the loot and the end game can be improved a lot, but...

Diablo 3 is by far the best game of all times to me. In my opinion it completly blows away all the competition. And the AH - love it! I am playing some Path of Exile now, and the trade system (just like in D2) sucks so hard.

Many people say D3 is pay to win, because of the RMAH. This is the most hypocritical thing I heard in my life. D3 can be pay to win regardless of the RMAH, bacause of the hundreds of 3rd party websties and RMAH has absolutely nothing to do with it.

[Hiderius]

Bleu42, on 07 February 2013 - 06:06 AM, said:

Alright, I have to immediately point out that you present zero facts within your first few sentences. Saying such things as 'substantial negative feedback and 'many' fans are disappointed' is unsubstantiated and completely through your prism.

I'm not a hater, I hope they improve Diablo 3 into the best action RPG ever. The 3.8/10 Metacritic user rating (7864 Ratings), and 2.2 / 5 on Amazon (3,116 customer reviews) isn't an anomaly though.

Comparatively Blizzard's Starcraft II: Wings of Liberty got 8.1 / 10 based on 2150 User Ratings.

Punkskelm, on 07 February 2013 - 05:44 AM, said:

Dude please quit the game and move on your just a hater

It's dumb to call names and label people who in fact wish the best for Diablo 3.

Bleu42, on 07 February 2013 - 06:40 AM, said:

What demise? They OWN the mmorpg market, they OWN the RTS market, they CREATED the arpg market. Blizzard isn't going anywhere, for a long time.

Yes Blizzard North created the ARPG genre, but Diablo 3 harmed the franchise and D3 has difficulity to compete with low-budget Path of Exile.

piterek2003_new, on 07 February 2013 - 07:44 AM, said:

Many people say D3 is pay to win, because of the RMAH. This is the most hypocritical thing I heard in my life. D3 can be pay to win regardless of the RMAH, bacause of the hundreds of 3rd party websties and RMAH has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Yes I think the RMAH is fine too. That's only one part of the whole game though.

Edited by Hiderius, 07 February 2013 - 08:09 AM.

[rebjorn]

[Nyaldee]

Hiderius, on 07 February 2013 - 04:53 AM, said:

Example: how can the low-budget Path of Exile be able to directly compete against Diablo 3?

Tbh i watched some PoE videos and came to conclusion that it sucks... Then open beta came and i downloaded it for shits and giggles becouse i've been tired of 1-61 paragon farm on Wiz (after i got bored with monk during 1-54 paragon heh). And i can't say how embarassed i'm now judging game based on random dude stream - it has more depth then D3, it has character development that you've to plan out, it has insanely well though currency system based on craft system.

Tbh PoE&D3 simply shows that money can't make game great on their own. Also Blizz somehow fucked up D3 right from the start. D3 inferno was insanely hard before first nerf and just hard before 2d and it's still hard and threatening on higher MPs so i wouldn't call D3 easy game, becouse it's not unless you want it to be. But... how the hell Blizz came up with fucked up lvl progression and completly brainless skill system? It completly kills off character development - 10 hrs of play and you have access to everything and can try every build, throw 50-100 euro into RMAH and you tried a every build at quite high specs (high enough to cope the feel).

20 hrs after you started you saw everything, tried everything (if you wanted), choosen what you're going to run and it's time to dive into hundreds upon hundreds hrs of runing A3 for paragon expirience that really doesn't add anything to your character. Imo D3 is the worst game crafted by Blizzard up to date and they aren't adding enough of new content to make game better and more interesting.

[Bagstone]

Regarding the bad customer reviews on Amazon and the low user rating on Metacritic: just look at the negative reviews to see the reason for that. People on Metacritic say they can't login and therefore awarded 0 points. No one goes back and updates a bad review... and I remember that reviews on Amazon were even lower in the first few weeks after reviews. Obviously the game had a lot of flaws in the beginning, but the main point is that many people complain about the B.Net requirement. It's one thing to not like it, but it's (in my opinion) not appropriate to give the game 1/5 stars on Amazon, because quite frankly you know what you get. So, the reviews are heavily skewed, and this is not a Diablo- or Blizzard-only thing, it happened to many other games in recent years who introduced similar mechanisms to prevent piracy.

Anyone remember the release of Half-Life 2? Everyone praised how the game revolutionized physics in 1st person shooter games and how good the game was and blablabla, but the game had a ~1.5 rating on Amazon because of this stupid system that requires you to be online all the time. Everyone said that this will be the end of Valve, the end of Half-Life 2, and the system they introduced will never be used by anyone. Yeah... right... I'm talking about Steam.

I think your prediction of the demise of Blizzard has a likelihood of less than 1% to become reality; it's more likely that in a few years from now you'll look back at your post and laugh.

P.S.: Comparing a game that has been released 8 months ago to a game whose open beta started two weeks ago does not make sense. In particular as the main complaints about the first game are addressing the endgame, something that can rarely be tested thoroughly in a beta.

[Vulmio]

Bleu42, on 07 February 2013 - 06:40 AM, said:

they CREATED the arpg market.

/geek mode on

I thought Diablo was an improved Gauntlet

/geek mode off

[Diavolo222]

haters gonna hate go away this is not a place for b.net forum trolls.

[FoxBatD2]

Blizzard knows exactly how many people are logging into the D3 servers how often. They can see exactly how those numbers responded to PoE, TL2, etc. coming online. They don't need you to try and tell them with your complete lack of evidence.

BTW Pandaria has a user rating of like, 4.3. And going by sub numbers, it's still the most profitable PC game right now. Meanwhile PoE was bragging about 50k concurrent logins on launch day. That is a real accomplishment for a new F2P game, but for Blizzard, it's Tuesday.

Edited by FoxBatD2, 07 February 2013 - 11:52 AM.

[Enty]

Okay STOP.... I can agree D3 has shortcomings and that Blizzards quality has .. ermm, faded under WoW's shadow, but that in no way means D3 is a bad game. They're actively fixing this project as we speak and it's gotten better with every patch.

On the Note of this bullshit hypocritical argument of Triple A vs indie, I don't think any of you understand how this market works. The triple A honestly is just a moniker for games who had millions of dollars to blow, which equates to people getting paid more. Whether that was the low-level programmer or the lead game designer, or mike morhaime himself it just means more money was dished out to people to pay for the production of this project... They're still just people exactly like the people at grinding gears who make PoE. So to use this bullshit argument "OHMYGAWDD3ISAWFULBECAUSEITWASTRIPLEA,ANDPoEANINDIEGAMEBEATIT" Is nonsensical and stupid. you'd expect higher paid individuals to be of more quality but no that is not the case at all they're just the same programmers, the only thing they did different was with their direction of the game. WHICH IS FINE! OH MY GOD. For once there is genuine diversity in a genre? NO WAY THAT CAN'T BE EVERY GAME MUST EXACTLY BE THE SAME! This generation of gamers is stuck up and believes they are owed everything. When a game designer goes out and comes up with an idea for a game they don't really care what you want they care what they want. That's how a game is made they make a game they want. Then they add features they want. And if you the consumer hate those features and ideas then by all means don't pay for the game. Make an informed decision and play the demo figure it out yourself if you enjoy or not, then move along or purchase the game. But when a game puts everything out on the table for you and clearly states all its features then you can't complain after you've purchased the product because you knew what you were getting into. You understood when you bought the game that this is how it played this was its feature set and that this was how it was going to be. Yet you were still disappointed. That could be the fault of the designers and programmers for making a broken game, but a broken game and a bad game are different because a broken game can be fixed and a bad game is just a game that you personally don't like for its features.

I hate to rant like this but it infuriates me when people are so pissed cause they made a bad purchase, but here's rant part 2.

No game is ever complete on arrival. Every consumer/gamer has to understand that. NO game ever comes out the door perfected and patch free. It's just something we currently have to accept and expect. Programming isn't easy and there are bound to be problems with million lines of code conflicting with each other. I only write code in the hundreds of lines and there are still problems and screw ups. Sometimes things just work weirdly in computers. So to say that just because D3 shipped with problems it was a bad game is stupid because I can think of tons of games within the last decade that shipped with major problems which were later fixed through patches. I.e  PATH OF EXILE. Even if they call it "open beta" it might as well have been released, considering it's going to be F2P in the end anyway.  I was in the beta and saw some bugs and fixes they had to make and they made them and they fixed up the game a lot and they're still continuing to do so. So to say a game is broken and therefore bad is wrong and illogical because technically every game is broken. They're only bad if the games brokeness exceeds and acceptable norm and Diablo 3 did not exceed that acceptable norm. It wasn't completely unplayable(Error 37 doesn't count that was not Diablos fault but the fault of the servers, although if you held that against diablo i understand), It didn't have gem-ending bugs where you were completely stuck at points. It has balance issues with items yes but that's fixable, and they're continuing to fix it. So to re-iterate why then is diablo a bad game? because it didn't meet your expectations? Because it didn't meet your every desire and want? Well then there's other games. No need to clutter our forums with hate threads.


TL;DR
Stop whining, you bought the game you made the purchase knowing full well the features of the game if you don't like it move along the major features won't change, only small balance things will and thats it. Stop acting like you were entitled to a wishlist of what you wanted and were upset when none of it was given. You like PoE so much then go play it. I played all 3 major ARPG's that came out thus far in Diablo 3 TL2 and PoE and I have to say i still enjoy D3 more so, TL2 coming in second and PoE coming in close third. Have your opinion and what not but there's no need to just spew out hate on a fans forum.

[DreamWalker]

Been playing D3 since release, and yes it had its problems in the beginning, but that has changed. At the moment the only game i'm playing on a regular basis is D3. I love finding items(legendarys+sets) and identifying it, even tho its a rubbish piece of loot , I still had the excitement of thinking: perhaps its a +100m item, i kinda see it being the same as buying a lottery ticket. You know you're not going to win, but the idea of winning is really what you're p(l)aying for. Of course that's not how everyone feels like, but this is what keeps me in the game.

Played PoE in closed beta and have played it a bit in open too, but every time i start a session, i can't stop thinking: All this time spending in PoE, i could have been farming in D3.... imo they both have their Pro's and Con's

e.g.

skill and stat system:
- PoE: Skills are found in gem form, can be leveled up. Passive skill tree: Provides for some stat allocation and extra bonuses
- D3: All skills are unlocked by leveling, so are the runes that modify how skills behave, and the stats are predetermined.

I like the skill leveling/finding in PoE but i HATE the passive skill tree, it's just a big mess to me. I can go this direction or this, but if i go the wrong way i have less points end game. At the same time you have no obvious idea if its worth going in that direction at all, untill you finally do... Only to experience it's a crap noticeable passive skill you've just picked. ARGH, and getting orbs of regret isn't easy while leveling. Before D3 was released, they had some other ideas about the skill system, that was unfortunately scrapped just before release and then they gave us a boring unlockable alternative. If Blizz had just sticked with their original idea or made runes like skill gems in PoE, I would have been satisfied.

Crafting:
- PoE: Whole economy in this game is materials for crafting, gives a lot of crafting options to find the gear yourself.
- D3: Materials are found from dissassembling items from the difficulty you want mats for. Few comes from Legendarys

PoE made the choice to have their whole economy based on crafting materials, which is all good, only problem is: how much is stuff worth? If you don't spend loads of time reading spammy trade chats, or looking at outdated price posts on forums, you have no idea if the item you're looking at is worth 1 scroll of wisdom or 1 alchemy orb. It's like being back in D2 trading hell....
D3's ways is better here i think, their problem was that crafted items (atleast legendarys/sets) are underpowered to what you can find. So why would you ever start crafting it ? Just after d3 release the crafted items was actually really nice, then legendary buff patch came, and made almost all craftables obsolete. When patch 1.0.7 arrives for D3 crafting should be viable again, only problem there - it looks to be DAMN expensive. But I belive that's just a matter of time before most people can afford that.
I guess i'm just missing the crafting from D2, back when white superior weaps and socketed items was actually usable and not just a crappy item lying on the ground. FYI, This is one of the few things i miss about d2.


Endgame:
- PoE: Map finding - Different maps, making you a portal to an area that drops better than normal areas
- D3: At release there was Diablo on inferno, now we got Ubers, Paragon levels and Monster Power. And hopefully more to come.

Map finding is a great idea imo, this adds more dept to the game. Makes me wish Blizz had stolen few PoE ideas Paragon leveling is a rubbish idea to end game imo, it's a good idea as a bonus cause you farm a lot, but i'm in not way playing d3 to reach 100 para, that just makes the grind boring to me. Ubers are sweet, and was missing at release. Farming keys to get organ parts to open Uber Trist. At the same time monster power adds the extra difficulty you need for whatever it is you are doing.

Like one of the other guys in this thread replied, I think it's odd how people take amazon user ratings seriously. There are so many variables, it's almost as random as RNG

Anyways it's always possible to leave the game and come back at a later point, when you feel the game satisfy your needs.

[DreamWalker]

+1 to Enty for his rant

[Ashes]

Why don't we have a subforum for rants/QQs like this? And if you open it, just link it to /dev/null.