30 replies to this topic

[apo86]

maka, on 06 February 2013 - 11:18 PM, said:

apo86, on 06 February 2013 - 09:57 PM, said:

Looking at Unrelenting Storm, total damage scales with duration. I see no reason why this would be different for the +duration item affix.

And how exactly are we supposed to know how much damage out Blizzard is doing after we added 6 seconds to its duration? Is it reflect on the tooltip? I would not think so.

Basic Blizzard = 210% over 6 seconds -> 35% per second
Unrelenting Storm = 280% over 8 seconds -> 35% per second

Pretty straight forward. After adding 6 seconds I expect it to do 420%/490%

[maka]

^^Yes, but is it really 35% per second? Or is it per tick, and the tick speed varies? All the numbers you provide there are approximations, nobody really knows exactly how Blizzard (the spell) works, except for Blizzard (the company), but they won't tell us.

[Orb]

More subtle question: is the crit roll per cast or per tick. What I mean is whether a) each bliz cast is rolled to be crit or not crit, if it crits, all the tick from that cast will be crits, b ) each bliz tick is rolled for crit separately, so that first tick may crit, but the next tick from the same bliz may not.

This will have an impact on how I prioritize my cc and cd. If it's roll per cast, then I need high cc and low cd, because as long as the whole cast is crit, everything (on low mp) will die anyway even at only 100% cd. If it's roll per tick, then I need about highest (1+cc)*(1+cd) as usual because everything will average out.

Edited by Orb, 07 February 2013 - 07:31 PM.

[apo86]

maka, on 07 February 2013 - 06:05 PM, said:

^^Yes, but is it really 35% per second? Or is it per tick, and the tick speed varies? All the numbers you provide there are approximations, nobody really knows exactly how Blizzard (the spell) works, except for Blizzard (the company), but they won't tell us.

The tooltip gives us total damage and duration. DPS calculation is quite simple in that case
Regarding tick speed (based on LoH tests): 4 ticks/s, not scaling with attack speed (total 24 ticks normally, 32 ticks with Unrelenting Storm).
If you don't trust the numbers, you can always get some min=max dmg testing equip and see for yourself if the actual damage matches your expectations.

But still. While I do believe I have a very good understanding of how Blizzard works, you are right. I did not actually test anything specifically for +duration gear. So my assumption on this part is just that. An assumption. Based on how Unrelenting Storm works.

[Loroese]

apo86, on 07 February 2013 - 08:04 PM, said:

maka, on 07 February 2013 - 06:05 PM, said:

^^Yes, but is it really 35% per second? Or is it per tick, and the tick speed varies? All the numbers you provide there are approximations, nobody really knows exactly how Blizzard (the spell) works, except for Blizzard (the company), but they won't tell us.

The tooltip gives us total damage and duration. DPS calculation is quite simple in that case
Regarding tick speed (based on LoH tests): 4 ticks/s, not scaling with attack speed (total 24 ticks normally, 32 ticks with Unrelenting Storm).
If you don't trust the numbers, you can always get some min=max dmg testing equip and see for yourself if the actual damage matches your expectations.

But still. While I do believe I have a very good understanding of how Blizzard works, you are right. I did not actually test anything specifically for +duration gear. So my assumption on this part is just that. An assumption. Based on how Unrelenting Storm works.

That's my guess how it works too. If the damage over the duration was constant then having +duration would cause the dps to decrease for the skill. All the other affixes for wizard skills are meant to increase dps (extra damage, reduced cost, etc.) so it makes the most sense. That said, without testing I don't know for sure, and with the way some other things work (I hate you WW+CM, why can't we figure out how you work!) we dont know for sure 100%. I'd still say 99% sure it works this way though.

[Venaliter]

Does Blizzard work with Critical Mass? Is it all ticks or just the first one? I wonder if it could drive a CM type build sometimes.

Also, Blizzard hanging around longer increases Cold Blooded uptime; and it's ludicrous if +blizz duration works differently then Unrelenting storm. Also, the longer blizzard ticks, and the slow is applied, means the hydra or meteor spell(whatever your AP spender) your using is dealing damage.

Edited by Venaliter, 14 February 2013 - 03:00 AM.

[Bagstone]

Venaliter, on 14 February 2013 - 02:54 AM, said:

Does Blizzard work with Critical Mass? Is it all ticks or just the first one? I wonder if it could drive a CM type build sometimes.

I'm note sure *how* it works exactly, but the proc coefficient of 0.01 makes it pretty useless imho.

[Venaliter]

Bagstone, on 14 February 2013 - 08:09 AM, said:

Venaliter, on 14 February 2013 - 02:54 AM, said:

Does Blizzard work with Critical Mass? Is it all ticks or just the first one? I wonder if it could drive a CM type build sometimes.

I'm note sure *how* it works exactly, but the proc coefficient of 0.01 makes it pretty useless imho.

I believe it was buffed to .0125

[Loroese]

Venaliter, on 14 February 2013 - 02:54 AM, said:

Does Blizzard work with Critical Mass? Is it all ticks or just the first one? I wonder if it could drive a CM type build sometimes.

Also, Blizzard hanging around longer increases Cold Blooded uptime; and it's ludicrous if +blizz duration works differently then Unrelenting storm. Also, the longer blizzard ticks, and the slow is applied, means the hydra or meteor spell(whatever your AP spender) your using is dealing damage.

I think it works with CM but because the proc coefficient is so low (1.25%), it isn't reliable. WW coefficient is 10 times that of blizzard, and there seems to be some funny things going on with CM+WW which makes it even better than expected. Also, Bliz doesn't stack, which further makes it bad for CM procs.

[Venaliter]

Loroese, on 14 February 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

Venaliter, on 14 February 2013 - 02:54 AM, said:

Does Blizzard work with Critical Mass? Is it all ticks or just the first one? I wonder if it could drive a CM type build sometimes.

Also, Blizzard hanging around longer increases Cold Blooded uptime; and it's ludicrous if +blizz duration works differently then Unrelenting storm. Also, the longer blizzard ticks, and the slow is applied, means the hydra or meteor spell(whatever your AP spender) your using is dealing damage.

I think it works with CM but because the proc coefficient is so low (1.25%), it isn't reliable. WW coefficient is 10 times that of blizzard, and there seems to be some funny things going on with CM+WW which makes it even better than expected. Also, Bliz doesn't stack, which further makes it bad for CM procs.

  I was envisioning whole zones covered in blizzards with +blizz duration, not something akin to CMWW. What you'd do with those CM procs, I have no idea. Maybe WoF? Just idly wondering.

[Orb]

I just want to add that I tried bliz (large area rune) + one source of APoC and it gives me back about 1-2 procs per cast. I hope this gives an idea how much bliz procs CM.