47 replies to this topic

[Astion]

maka, on 05 February 2013 - 02:34 PM, said:

I feel kinda bad for saying this, given all the work you put into it, but....

Daily Quests?


Other than that, some good suggestions, some OK suggestions, some bad suggestions. That's my view

Tidez, on 05 February 2013 - 02:57 PM, said:

I liked most of this.. The only thing I absolutely hated was the addition of "daily quests"... Really? 7 years of my live sucked through my eyes through WoW dailies has pretty much solidified the fact that if I see even one daily quest appear in this game, I would drive to Blizzard HQ and set myself on fire.

Agreed. Daily Quests do not fit into Diablo 3. It wasn't what I had in mind for it, as it now looks like an MMO copy.

Reworded to:


Random Objectives at Random Times.
o Random Objectives, from defending Tristram from waves of random monsters to defeating a set amount of monsters/ elites/ goblins to completing randomly generated events throughout the game. Completing the objective is rewarded with a treasure chest. Higher monster power increases the quality of the treasure.

Random random random!

[Astion]

KalikooJack, on 05 February 2013 - 03:14 PM, said:

City Hub: Not a fan of this. Many people dont like social aspect of the game. Auctioning with only 100 people is not what many of fans (I think) want.

Thanks for the feedback! However, I think you misunderstood my intention. The City Hub is only a visual aspect. The Auction House will work the same as it does now. All different City Hub instances are linked together into the Auction House database.

Aside from that. Yes, some may dislike the social aspect. Perhaps an option to not spawn with other players should be put in place.

[Jamoose]

Me like! +1

[Bagstone]

Astion, on 05 February 2013 - 02:44 PM, said:

Chiron, on 05 February 2013 - 11:17 AM, said:

Social changes: Meh, I don't really care.

Social Systems are the backbone of modern games these days. Without a proper social system many gamers tend to feel isolated. Social Systems are a huge part of multiplayer games, the social aspect is by far the most differentiating aspect for multiplayer vs singleplayer games.

This is the main point you fail to understand.

Diablo is at first a single player game. Every single thing about this game is designed such that you can do it completely on your own, isolated in your own world, without ever interacting with someone else. (This is why the online requirement upset so many people). Multiplayer is just an addition, but will never be the main focus of D3, same with PvP. Again, blue posts and Blizzard developers mentioned this in interviews or posts several times: D3 will never be an esports game or an MMO. All ideas that relate to that (and to be fair, many of your ideas do) are not suitable as suggestions for "improving" D3.

You're simply running up to Santa Claus and asking him to turn your pony into a werewolf. Stop it, play another game, even hoping for these changes will make you feel very very sad once you realized you bought a (single-player focused) ARPG while the game you actually wanted was an (esports-focused) MMO.

[Astion]

Bagstone, on 05 February 2013 - 03:57 PM, said:

Astion, on 05 February 2013 - 02:44 PM, said:

Chiron, on 05 February 2013 - 11:17 AM, said:

Social changes: Meh, I don't really care.

Social Systems are the backbone of modern games these days. Without a proper social system many gamers tend to feel isolated. Social Systems are a huge part of multiplayer games, the social aspect is by far the most differentiating aspect for multiplayer vs singleplayer games.

This is the main point you fail to understand.

Diablo is at first a single player game. Every single thing about this game is designed such that you can do it completely on your own, isolated in your own world, without ever interacting with someone else. (This is why the online requirement upset so many people). Multiplayer is just an addition, but will never be the main focus of D3, same with PvP. Again, blue posts and Blizzard developers mentioned this in interviews or posts several times: D3 will never be an esports game or an MMO. All ideas that relate to that (and to be fair, many of your ideas do) are not suitable as suggestions for "improving" D3.

You're simply running up to Santa Claus and asking him to turn your pony into a werewolf. Stop it, play another game, even hoping for these changes will make you feel very very sad once you realized you bought a (single-player focused) ARPG while the game you actually wanted was an (esports-focused) MMO.

Your arguments are valid, yet minor adjustments to certain systems can satisfy everyone.

Im all in for people playing solo and deciding for themselves where to participate in social environments. As mentioned above: A simple option for disconnecting yourself from the a City Hub could be put into place.

However, as it stands now, Diablo 3 is an "always" online game and therefor it should act like one for the majority of players who do like it.

The PvP systemsI describe are, in my opinion, not affiliated with e-sports. E-sports require a super balanced area, which Diablo 3 is clearly not. I am not asking for a balanced area, I am in for gameplay modes where people compete against one another. If some do not like an unbalanced playing field, then skip PvP.

I'd like to state that adding content to the game should in no way force people to play a certain way. I always liked freedom in doing whatever I wanted at that point in time.  

Yes, I hope for this game to evolve from Pony (AA) to a Werewolf (AAA). Even if that meant Blizzard wouldn't implement a single suggestions into their game. I have complete confidence that Blizzards developers will create an even better experience with upcomming patches and expansions.

Edited by Astion, 05 February 2013 - 04:18 PM.

[KalikooJack]

Astion, on 05 February 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:

KalikooJack, on 05 February 2013 - 03:14 PM, said:

City Hub: Not a fan of this. Many people dont like social aspect of the game. Auctioning with only 100 people is not what many of fans (I think) want.

Thanks for the feedback! However, I think you misunderstood my intention. The City Hub is only a visual aspect. The Auction House will work the same as it does now. All different City Hub instances are linked together into the Auction House database.

Aside from that. Yes, some may dislike the social aspect. Perhaps an option to not spawn with other players should be put in place.

Ah, I see. It kind a feels good and I can see why many people would want it. Still I prefer not having City hub. Those places belongs to MMOs and I think are not part of ARPGs.

That said, I´m not totally against that it could be an option to spawn to some city hub place. If its optional and you dont get any advantage using it and many people would love it, then why not. So preferably not, but not totally against.

[IgnatiusReilly]

Well, it was an enjoyable read at the very least.

I think the gem-matching socket thing is definitely something we'll see at some point in the future.

[slayervedran]

i like this .ALOT
/sign

[CorruptCamel]

I love adding more bonuses to each level you reach. Adds even more incentive to grind.

[Astion]

KalikooJack, on 05 February 2013 - 03:14 PM, said:

You should make a post to official forum about this. Maybe they use atleast some ideas.

Can't, my account is currently banned for bumping

[PiousFlea]

Changing itemization to make items higher quality does NOT make it more interesting or fun. Look at WoW. Every max-level DPS item is the equivalent of a D3 "Quadrafecta" - they all have Stamina, Primary Stat, and at least two of (Hit, Crit, Haste, Mastery). Itemization is very boring in WoW because every ilvl 496 epic is very similar in power to every other ilvl 496 epic. If every single item that dropped was awesome, then "awesome" very quickly becomes "boring".

What D3 needs is the opposite of super awesome items that appeal to everybody. What D3 needs is items that are more specialized and appeal to a very narrow niche.

As long as everyone wants exactly the same gear, everyone will compete for the same few stats. A relatively small difference in stats leads to an immense difference in sell price - just look at the sale prices for any Legendary. Even more importantly, there is nothing interesting you can do with gear. Unlike D2, you can't stack gear and turn an underpowered variant build into a decent farming build, or turn your class into a totally different class.

The best thing for Blizzard to do in an expansion pack would be to greatly nerf stats that benefit everyone (Primary stat, ASPD, CHC, CDB) and buff or add new stats that benefit specific skills, builds, or playstyles. (For example, "+% to Summoned Creature Damage", "+% to Single Target Melee Attacks", "+% to Bleed Damage", "+% to Damage over Time Spells", "+% to Ground Targeted Spells", "+% Damage to Enemies 30 yards or further", "+% Proc Damage", "+% Damage vs. Stunned")

Edited by PiousFlea, 06 February 2013 - 04:46 AM.

[Chiron]

Astion, on 05 February 2013 - 02:44 PM, said:

Chiron, on 05 February 2013 - 11:17 AM, said:

Social changes: Meh, I don't really care.

Social Systems are the backbone of modern games these days. Without a proper social system many gamers tend to feel isolated. Social Systems are a huge part of multiplayer games, the social aspect is by far the most differentiating aspect for multiplayer vs singleplayer games.

Chiron, on 05 February 2013 - 11:17 AM, said:

Item changes: Seems like those would only make items worse and more random. I especially hate the randomness in legendaries/sets. Also, I very strongly disagree in having PvP-specific affixes; D3 is a PvE game. Magic find, Gold find etc.

should be removed (and probably will be removed) from equipment. Blizzard too said that it isn't very fun to gather two sets of gear; one for MF and one to maximize your killing power. MF/GF from Paragon is enough. Oh and NO CHARMS EVER PLEASE! It was one of the most annoying features of D2.

Yes, items are very random, and they should be for the longevity of the game. However, I actually took away a part of the randomness and filled it with more desirable stats.

Magic Find is one of those problematic stats that is really cool to have, but not at the expensive of your characters power. Which is a totally legit argument. With my system however, you can have best of both worlds.

Items roll affixes and sub-affixes totally separate from one another. 4-6 Affixes, plus a small chance of 1-2 sub-affixes. Meaning, you will never have to give up power for cool bonus features such as gold find, magic find or pickup radius for example.

Charms are in my opinion the best way to customize your character. Many players loved the stat allocation system, which has been removed. Charms could fill that role to a certain extend and are a very cool addition to the loot table.

PvP Stats are already in 1.0.7, as VS Elites stats also work VS Players

About the social aspects, for me Diablo is mainly a single player game with an online economy so I don't really care if Blizzard would add social stuff or not. As long as it's not mandatory.

Even if that affix/sub-affix system allows an item to have all the "power" affixes and then additionally the MF etc. sub-affixes, you'd still end up collecting separate MF gear. I just don't like that. Of course, if the crafting system would include a chance to enchant the item with the desired (sub-)affix, it could be ok.

I hated charms because they take up inventory space. It's just not a good mechanic. They could be ok if they were an equippable item but I think D3 already has maybe too many item slots. Items lose value if you have too many item slots. I'm not talking about their value in gold here but value for you as a player; you don't get that UMMM feeling when you find a really great item if it only affects like 5-10% of you characters total power. One of PoEs developers/designers talked about this in some Youtube clip.

Also, I don't regard the "vs Elites" affix as a "PvP specific" affix, even if it does work against players. I am against having affixes that _only_ work in PvP. Combined PvE&PvP affixes are fine.

[Muktuk]

Astion, on 05 February 2013 - 10:01 AM, said:

...Would you read it if you knew it was fan fiction from the start? I many people will skip over it

I skipped over the whole thing knowing it was fake by your title.
No disclaimer implies that the author is naive.  Most readers at Dfans have seen dozens of these fake "leaked" release notes.  That approach was old before the game was released.

[maka]

PiousFlea, on 06 February 2013 - 04:41 AM, said:

Changing itemization to make items higher quality does NOT make it more interesting or fun. Look at WoW. Every max-level DPS item is the equivalent of a D3 "Quadrafecta" - they all have Stamina, Primary Stat, and at least two of (Hit, Crit, Haste, Mastery). Itemization is very boring in WoW because every ilvl 496 epic is very similar in power to every other ilvl 496 epic. If every single item that dropped was awesome, then "awesome" very quickly becomes "boring".

What D3 needs is the opposite of super awesome items that appeal to everybody. What D3 needs is items that are more specialized and appeal to a very narrow niche.

As long as everyone wants exactly the same gear, everyone will compete for the same few stats. A relatively small difference in stats leads to an immense difference in sell price - just look at the sale prices for any Legendary. Even more importantly, there is nothing interesting you can do with gear. Unlike D2, you can't stack gear and turn an underpowered variant build into a decent farming build, or turn your class into a totally different class.

The best thing for Blizzard to do in an expansion pack would be to greatly nerf stats that benefit everyone (Primary stat, ASPD, CHC, CDB) and buff or add new stats that benefit specific skills, builds, or playstyles. (For example, "+% to Summoned Creature Damage", "+% to Single Target Melee Attacks", "+% to Bleed Damage", "+% to Damage over Time Spells", "+% to Ground Targeted Spells", "+% Damage to Enemies 30 yards or further", "+% Proc Damage", "+% Damage vs. Stunned")

Right on target. +1

[JA0]

Tidez, on 05 February 2013 - 02:57 PM, said:

I liked most of this.. The only thing I absolutely hated was the addition of "daily quests"... Really? 7 years of my live sucked through my eyes through WoW dailies has pretty much solidified the fact that if I see even one daily quest appear in this game, I would drive to Blizzard HQ and set myself on fire.

i wouldnt want daily quests either, but for a force unknown id pay to see this!

[Zero(pS)]

PiousFlea, on 06 February 2013 - 04:41 AM, said:

Changing itemization to make items higher quality does NOT make it more interesting or fun. Look at WoW. Every max-level DPS item is the equivalent of a D3 "Quadrafecta" - they all have Stamina, Primary Stat, and at least two of (Hit, Crit, Haste, Mastery). Itemization is very boring in WoW because every ilvl 496 epic is very similar in power to every other ilvl 496 epic. If every single item that dropped was awesome, then "awesome" very quickly becomes "boring".

What D3 needs is the opposite of super awesome items that appeal to everybody. What D3 needs is items that are more specialized and appeal to a very narrow niche.

As long as everyone wants exactly the same gear, everyone will compete for the same few stats. A relatively small difference in stats leads to an immense difference in sell price - just look at the sale prices for any Legendary. Even more importantly, there is nothing interesting you can do with gear. Unlike D2, you can't stack gear and turn an underpowered variant build into a decent farming build, or turn your class into a totally different class.

The best thing for Blizzard to do in an expansion pack would be to greatly nerf stats that benefit everyone (Primary stat, ASPD, CHC, CDB) and buff or add new stats that benefit specific skills, builds, or playstyles. (For example, "+% to Summoned Creature Damage", "+% to Single Target Melee Attacks", "+% to Bleed Damage", "+% to Damage over Time Spells", "+% to Ground Targeted Spells", "+% Damage to Enemies 30 yards or further", "+% Proc Damage", "+% Damage vs. Stunned")

Really good point, agreed completely.

They need to step up their "affix" game in the expansion, because it has to beat two D2 features by itself: the manual stats, and the items.

[shaggy]

maka, on 06 February 2013 - 04:23 PM, said:

PiousFlea, on 06 February 2013 - 04:41 AM, said:

Changing itemization to make items higher quality does NOT make it more interesting or fun. Look at WoW. Every max-level DPS item is the equivalent of a D3 "Quadrafecta" - they all have Stamina, Primary Stat, and at least two of (Hit, Crit, Haste, Mastery). Itemization is very boring in WoW because every ilvl 496 epic is very similar in power to every other ilvl 496 epic. If every single item that dropped was awesome, then "awesome" very quickly becomes "boring".

What D3 needs is the opposite of super awesome items that appeal to everybody. What D3 needs is items that are more specialized and appeal to a very narrow niche.

As long as everyone wants exactly the same gear, everyone will compete for the same few stats. A relatively small difference in stats leads to an immense difference in sell price - just look at the sale prices for any Legendary. Even more importantly, there is nothing interesting you can do with gear. Unlike D2, you can't stack gear and turn an underpowered variant build into a decent farming build, or turn your class into a totally different class.

The best thing for Blizzard to do in an expansion pack would be to greatly nerf stats that benefit everyone (Primary stat, ASPD, CHC, CDB) and buff or add new stats that benefit specific skills, builds, or playstyles. (For example, "+% to Summoned Creature Damage", "+% to Single Target Melee Attacks", "+% to Bleed Damage", "+% to Damage over Time Spells", "+% to Ground Targeted Spells", "+% Damage to Enemies 30 yards or further", "+% Proc Damage", "+% Damage vs. Stunned")

Right on target. +1

Agreed, Maka.  Although I think I've said that a few too many times in the recent weeks.

I've been thinking about "itemization" a bit myself recently and I began to realize that D2 items simply had more flexibility because there weren't really a ton of damage-increasing affixes.  You basically had attack speed, +skills, and a few other affixes which were not very prevalent.  This ultimately led directly to things like faster hit recovery and cannot be frozen becoming popular stats (most people I knew wanted 40% FHR).

The system in D3 allows for 6 affixes on the best rares.  But how many of those affixes have to roll into primary, IAS, crit, critdmg, or sockets for it to be a viable piece?  After a long retrospective I think we have TOO MUCH offensive variety of stats.  Movement speed is far too good of a stat to the point that I'd draw some comparisons between movement speed and Teleport in D2 (where Enigma was so good for the 6 classes who didn't get Teleport).

This reminds me a LOT of the consolidation and ultimate removal of the original talent trees in WoW.  "Pick 5 of these 11 choices" is not a valid choice when 7 of those 11 choices are absolutely mandatory for better DPS.  That's exactly how D3 items are right now - you have 6 possible "choices" for each rare... but 3, 4, and sometimes 5, of those choices have already been made for you.

What we need is fewer of those pre-made choices and more of the other stuff.  I like having resist all on my gear.  I like having vitality on my gear.  I'm a WD and I like my pets and their survivability only helps me stand still and faceroll more.  But if you add vitality and resist all onto the pieces that I've been talking about you're looking at rolling some exceptionally-rare items.

Conceptually, we're looking at the fact that items don't have enough "room" to include all the offensive things we know we want, but also the other, more-survivability-oriented things we know we'd like to have.  Just look at Reflects Damage as a symptom.  Reflects Damage only is an issue because our offense has scaled up so quickly compared to our defense.  If they scaled up at roughly the same rate it wouldn't be nearly as big of a deal.  But most of our defenses right now are the same as they were 6 months ago... but our offensive capabilities are double, triple, quadrouple, hell in some cases possibly 10x, what they were 6 months ago.

[maka]

shaggy, on 06 February 2013 - 05:33 PM, said:

Agreed, Maka.  Although I think I've said that a few too many times in the recent weeks.

Sign of the expansion pack

Very good points, especially the one about our offensive vs. defensive capabilities.

[Drakfiskaren]

Why is this not the patch notes

[Bagstone]

Drakfiskaren, on 06 February 2013 - 07:36 PM, said:

Why is this not the patch notes

Because this game is called Diablo 3 and not WoWablo (thankfully). We already have more than enough influences from this other Blizzard game.