46 replies to this topic

[Irrational]

I cook great meth!

Just kidding. But really!

On the serious note, marijuana just became legal in the state above me (Washington) and Oregon would have followed but the measure lost by a mere 5%. Colorado has legalized marijuana, and more and more people around the world are starting to open up to the ideas of non-medical use of drugs, aka street drugs. Amsterdam is notoriously known for having cannabis shops and clubs and having a very lenient policy of drugs (to those who have been there, you know what I'm talking about). In general, most developed countries are starting to open up to this issue and, especially with the internet, you can say that more people are starting to "not care" as much.

So now I am going to ask you guys. What do you think about this? Should commercial drugs be legalized? Should all drugs be legal? Should there be a place where you can do psychelics? Where do you draw the line? Is it an issue that if you legalize one thing you have to legalize everything? If we legalize marijuana and it comes that we legalize mushrooms, acid, DMT (pretty much all psychelics), would we have to legalize meth, heroin, and, dare I say it, even PCP to be fair?

My view? I grew up in Oregon. Here in the northwest, everyone grows up with drugs right next to them. Mushrooms grow like wheat in the northwest, Portland used to be the meth capital of the world, and pot is very lenient here. To be honest, I was shocked when marijuana legalization didn't pass because Portland (which to anyone who is from Oregon knows that Portland is pretty much Oregon) is known for being "weird" and this would be the perfect thing for them to do. I personally think it should be a personal choice, and we should have regulations of when it effects others.

This issue would be a lot easier if alcohol was illegal since out of almost most commercial drugs, it probably is the most harmful. It is extremely bad for your overall health, overdosing is extremely easy, it's EXTREMELY addictive (in fact it is one of the two substances in the world that withdrawal effects can kill you), and the effects of it usually cause damage and reckless behavior (I live in a fraternity, I know this). With this in mind, the line is drawn very far away for society, yet a lot of people grew up watching Intervention and the news, where meth heads and heroin addicts unfortunately make up a lot of the time so the ideas of "drugs" is very touchy and looked down upon.

How do we solve everything? Legalize everything. That's right. Everything. PCP included (but for the love of god make it extremely hard to get).

Now why do this?

1. Morally, we need to do it. If you don't like drugs, don't do them. If someone wants to do drugs, let them do it. How someone acts in their home is entirely up to them. If someone wants to shoot up on heroin, let them! Just because one person made a personal choice to not use commercial drugs does not mean everyone has to follow suit.

2. Practicing drugs will be a lot safer. Did you know that unsafe sex is not the number one way AIDS is transmitted? Heroin is actually the number one way AIDS is spread. That's right, one of the most feared drugs out there just got scarier. Do you know how many lives can be saved if the government can put out safer ways to make people achieve their highs? What if you can buy marijuana without being worried that the dealer can lace it with substances that make you chemically addicted? Or use the whole "crack" trick and increase the quantity of it by adding some random shit to it? What if we were actually able to study the drugs to make them safer to use? Which leads me to my next point...

3. Medicine and therapy! First off, the general public would be surprised what goes into your medicine. They use box jellyfish venom to fight wrinkles. Yeah that's right, you read that right. The most potent and poisonous venom in the WORLD (that's right, Box Jellyfish are ranked number one in the most poisonous animals list) is used to help 50 year old women fight their midlife crisis. Why? BECAUSE IT WORKS! Stop thinking of drugs as drugs for a second and imagine them as chemicals because that's what they really are. The active ingredient in marijuana is tetrahydrocannabinol, which is actually extremely useful when it comes to battling side-effects of diseases, and unfortunately, in some states it's illegal because people fear stoners. The most potent psychedelic known to humans is dimethyltyptamine (DMT) is scheduled as a class I drug under the law and the easiest place to find it is... YOUR BRAIN! That's right folks! That near death experience you had where you went out of your body? That was actually an insane trip you had that your body put you under because it thought you were gonna die but you lived. I hate to hate on religion here, but fundamentalist Christians who claim to have seen Jesus, Hell, Buddha, etc before they died were just tripping really really hard on drugs that they fight to exterminate from society. Mushrooms? Studies believe that they started religion and they played a huge role in the founding in Hinduism (mushrooms grow very well in cow dung). These are chemicals that play a role in your brain. Like all chemicals, they have an input-output effect that can be manipulated to be of some help. Look at morphine and laughing gas! Remember how awesome those were? Those are DRUGS (I'm not sure about laughing gas, but morphine is used commercially all the time). STUDY THEM AND USE THEIR PROPERTIES FOR THE BETTER OF MANKIND! Stop limiting yourself!

4. A drug experience isn't actually all that bad. THC functions by turning on receptors in your brain, meaning that you are literally feeling an intense unregulated brain overdrive where thinking and brain functions just go crazy, meaning that thinking becomes your main source of entertainment (and music ). A lot people who consider them philosophical have went on a psychelic trip to "broaden" their mind so they can think in a different way (this isn't a hippie belief). Psychelic experiences can be life changing on the way you view the world. Adderall is used across colleges around the world to help them study for finals and midterms. Meth is an extreme version of adderall. Heroin... I don't know anything about heroin really except that it's commonly injected through needles and you get AIDS, but I don't know anything about the high you achieve. Drug effects can have a positive on the human psych. Call me crazy, call me a dreamer, call me anything you want, but I believe that sometime in the future marijuana will be recommended by psychologists to relieve stress for their patients. Ponder this for a second. When was the last time you met a stressed out stoner? The stereotype for stoners is that they are chill and tell everyone to chill the hell out. We have resources to help people's minds. USE THEM!

Well these are my points summarized in a very short amount of time with very little proof reading because I have a midterm later this week and I want to start studying. Again, what are your guys' opinions. With some luck, I hope the mods see this thread as a discussion thread and don't close this thread because I think this is a huge issue that needs to be discussed without the taboo it has upon on it now. Also I KNOW THIS IS A GAME FORUM so don't post that here. But just because it is doesn't mean we can't talk about it.

LET'S TALK ABOUT DRUGS!

Edited by Irrational, 01 February 2013 - 03:42 AM.

[Turtel]

Sure we can talk about it, but should be in the Off-topic section   http://www.diablofans.com/forum/69-off-topic/

And yeah why not. Even though the only drugs i ever did were alcohol and marijuana, which i completely stopped smoking about 7 years ago and i drink maybe 4-5 times a year,  I have very similar views as you, with minor exceptions. To me pot is not even a drug in this meaning (no addiction, very minor health effects, no 'hangovers'). I can't stand people talking non-sense about pot, while at the same time they are getting drunk on a regular basis   I don't get how alcohol is not treated as a drug by society, when its one of the worse ones.
Anyway, some drugs, even weak ones, can open 'windows' in your mind and that is valuable.
So yes, i wouldn't mind if they simply started producing quality drugs, legally, put tax on them etc. I know there are a lot of problems with integrating drugs into current economy and especially society and i'm not offering any solutions, just saying it should be done.

I don't think personally i'd be getting high all the time all of a sudden (i could be doing that right now, but aren't). I know many ppl would, but the initial period would pass then it's the same as alcohol is right now.

Edited by Turtel, 01 February 2013 - 11:43 AM.

[zeroRooter]

"Morally, we need to do it. If you don't like drugs, don't do them. If someone wants to do drugs, let them do it. How someone acts in their home is entirely up to them."


How someone acts in their home isentirely up to them; the problem occurs when people smoke up outside (or smoke up first and then go out.) In the same way i don't want to be bothered by drunk people, i certainly don't want to be bothered by people who are drugged up.
On a side note, there are often product monographs for these types of products (at least, in their medicinal form) and they often have very unwanted side-effects. For example, marijuana is thought to have a detrimental affect on short term memory, etc...

[overneathe]

Turtel, on 01 February 2013 - 01:18 AM, said:

Sure we can talk about it, but should be in the Off-topic section   http://www.diablofans.com/forum/69-off-topic/

Indeed! Moving there.

[Turtel]

zeroRooter, on 01 February 2013 - 01:19 AM, said:

How someone acts in their home isentirely up to them; the problem occurs when people smoke up outside (or smoke up first and then go out.) In the same way i don't want to be bothered by drunk people, i certainly don't want to be bothered by people who are drugged up.

That's a very good point and if i'd agree to legalizing drugs, i would not want a simple 'drugs are legal now, buy them and do what you want'
You know how smoking was once allowed almost anywhere? Now, atleast in most countries, it's only allowed outside, designated areas or at home. Also in some countries, like the one i currently live in, you can't buy any alcohol past 10pm and you can never consume it outside, in sight of others. Then there are obvious rules like driving cars under influence etc.

Some very specific rules would have to be established.

Edited by Turtel, 01 February 2013 - 01:37 AM.

[Irrational]

zeroRooter, on 01 February 2013 - 01:19 AM, said:

"Morally, we need to do it. If you don't like drugs, don't do them. If someone wants to do drugs, let them do it. How someone acts in their home is entirely up to them."


How someone acts in their home isentirely up to them; the problem occurs when people smoke up outside (or smoke up first and then go out.) In the same way i don't want to be bothered by drunk people, i certainly don't want to be bothered by people who are drugged up.
On a side note, there are often product monographs for these types of products (at least, in their medicinal form) and they often have very unwanted side-effects. For example, marijuana is thought to have a detrimental affect on short term memory, etc...

Very true. Almost everything out there has a negative side-effect. Name one thing that doesn't.

Also very true on how someone acts like in a public setting. When things begin to effect someone else, then it becomes an opinion problem. You would have to ensue some laws for being intoxicated or under the influence in public, whether this is a fine or something. Also driving under the influence would be completely unacceptable under all drugs.

Another thing is the establishing of drug based clubs. I'm pretty sure if all drugs were legal, clubs would be selling all the party drugs (alcohol, weed, cocaine, XTC) and there could be psychelic centers where you can order a room for four hours, do some shrooms and be able to chill out within a safe environment with people trained to take care of this stuff. I'm pretty sure a lot of hippies would have no problem working with this stuff and helping people have a good trip. When you move onto the more hardcore stuff (meth, heroin, PCP), research would have to be done to see how to perhaps have this in a controlled building setting.

Also I believe this country needs to change its drug education a great deal amount.

Edited by Irrational, 01 February 2013 - 01:45 AM.

[Lt. Venom]

First things first, some "street" drugs have already been tested for medical benefits with surprising results. Cocaine can be used to treat wounds on children. LSD can treat alcoholism. Ecstasy for PTSD. Meth for ADHD. You get the point.

Should some drugs be made legal? Yes. Should there be further medical research into these drugs? Yes. If a drug has no negative medical effects, other than dependency and depletion of wallets everywhere, be made legal? Go for it.

All I'm saying is the government is wasting way too much money fighting drugs and would be a much better benefit towards our national debt if they heavily regulate it and tax it. It would be ironic if some of the drug tax money went towards healthcare and social security.

Would I do any of these drugs? No. Do I care if other people do these drugs? I don't give a flying shit if they did drugs IF they did them responsibly and didn't endanger others.

I am in no way endorsing the use of drugs, or drug paraphernalia.

Also, 5 Illegal Drugs with Surprisingly Wholesome Medical Uses.

[Irrational]

Lt. Venom, on 01 February 2013 - 03:31 AM, said:

First things first, some "street" drugs have already been tested for medical benefits with surprising results. Cocaine can be used to treat wounds on children. LSD can treat alcoholism. Ecstasy for PTSD. Meth for ADHD. You get the point.

Should some drugs be made legal? Yes. Should there be further medical research into these drugs? Yes. If a drug has no negative medical effects, other than dependency and depletion of wallets everywhere, be made legal? Go for it.

All I'm saying is the government is wasting way too much money fighting drugs and would be a much better benefit towards our national debt if they heavily regulate it and tax it. It would be ironic if some of the drug tax money went towards healthcare and social security.

Would I do any of these drugs? No. Do I care if other people do these drugs? I don't give a flying shit if they did drugs IF they did them responsibly and didn't endanger others.

I am in no way endorsing the use of drugs, or drug paraphernalia.

Also, 5 Illegal Drugs with Surprisingly Wholesome Medical Uses.

I agree with everything you said. However, let's just say there's a new drug called "ABC". This drug gives off an incredible high, however you don't feel pain when you're on this, you hallucinate, and you can get violent. This drug is proven to have no purpose in the medical field so it is 100% "bad" for you, yet the only reason why people use it is because of the high. ABC is injected into the blood stream and is a leader in spreading AIDS. In almost all cases, ABC is bad.

Should this drug be illegal?

Also the last question is phrased incorrectly. It should read "If a drug has no medical benefits, should it be illegal?"

EDIT: The last poll question has been CHANGED. Reread the question and change your answer if you wish. I don't want this poll to be incorrect. Sorry that I changed it, it's just that the question I originally had up there did not represent the question I wanted to ask.

Edited by Irrational, 01 February 2013 - 03:44 AM.

[Umpa]

The word drug is completely useless and muddy. So much of what we consume every day is a "drug".

[Irrational]

Umpa, on 01 February 2013 - 02:13 PM, said:

The word drug is completely useless and muddy. So much of what we consume every day is a "drug".

Indeed. Coffee is one of the world's most celebrated drugs out there. The term drug is defined as usually having a "medical, intoxicating, or performance enhancing" effect. You can put a lot of things into that category (in fact most of everything).

Making it illegal does not make anything easier. In fact, it makes things a lot harder on everyone. Through the use of the prescription system, permits, and privately owned facilities you can make commercial "drugs" functional in every day society.

[Jaetch]

I have a handful of great buddies (really awesome people, really), who have been absolutely thrown off-course in their lives simply because of drugs.

It appears my vote fit in with the majority's. Recreational drugs are fine, really, but as long as they don't destroy lives via uncontrollable addiction. I love video games, I can say it may be an addiction, but at least I'm biologically capable of controlling it. Some drugs mess with your head so much that you have to keep doing it in order to "feel" sane.

Research and education is key. Drugs that should be banned are the ones that are clearly hazardous to a person's immediate and longterm physical and mental health, and God forbid, the health of those near them. Yes, drugs can all negatively impact your health, but I'm talking about drugs like heroine and cocaine compared to those in the likes of marijuana and tobacco. There's a big difference in effect on your health between the two sides.

[pr3ach3r]

Jaetch, on 01 February 2013 - 07:52 PM, said:

I have a handful of great buddies (really awesome people, really), who have been absolutely thrown off-course in their lives simply because of drugs.

It appears my vote fit in with the majority's. Recreational drugs are fine, really, but as long as they don't destroy lives via uncontrollable addiction. I love video games, I can say it may be an addiction, but at least I'm biologically capable of controlling it. Some drugs mess with your head so much that you have to keep doing it in order to "feel" sane.

Research and education is key. Drugs that should be banned are the ones that are clearly hazardous to a person's immediate and longterm physical and mental health, and God forbid, the health of those near them. Yes, drugs can all negatively impact your health, but I'm talking about drugs like heroine and cocaine compared to those in the likes of marijuana and tobacco. There's a big difference in effect on your health between the two sides.

I have a handful of great buddies (really awesome people, really), who have been absolutely thrown off-course in their lives simply because of games.

It appears my vote fit in with the majority's. Recreational games are fine, really, but as long as they don't destroy lives via uncontrollable addiction. I love video games, I can say it may be an addiction, but at least I'm biologically capable of controlling it. Some games mess with your head so much that you have to keep doing it in order to "feel" sane.

Research and education is key. games that should be banned are the ones that are clearly hazardous to a person's immediate and longterm physical and mental health, and God forbid, the health of those near them. Yes, games can all negatively impact your health, but I'm talking about games like diablo and the elder scrolls compared to those in the likes of dead space and the walking dead. There's a big difference in effect on your health between the two sides.

[Irrational]

Jaetch, on 01 February 2013 - 07:52 PM, said:

I have a handful of great buddies (really awesome people, really), who have been absolutely thrown off-course in their lives simply because of drugs.

It appears my vote fit in with the majority's. Recreational drugs are fine, really, but as long as they don't destroy lives via uncontrollable addiction. I love video games, I can say it may be an addiction, but at least I'm biologically capable of controlling it. Some drugs mess with your head so much that you have to keep doing it in order to "feel" sane.

Research and education is key. Drugs that should be banned are the ones that are clearly hazardous to a person's immediate and longterm physical and mental health, and God forbid, the health of those near them. Yes, drugs can all negatively impact your health, but I'm talking about drugs like heroine and cocaine compared to those in the likes of marijuana and tobacco. There's a big difference in effect on your health between the two sides.

What about alcohol and tobacco? Should we ban those too? Everything that has a positive side has a negative side. Everything can ruin someone's life. Give me anything and I can tell you how.

[Sigma]

if its natural, unprocessed, none lethal and none addictive then it should not be illegal to grow, use or supply.

its not illegal to go buy Fruit, Veg, and Mushrooms.    Yet Possession of "Magic Mushrooms" is illegal.
you can if you wanted to grow, dry and smoke a Tobacco plant,  yet doing the same with a cannabis plant puts you behind bars.

Double standards should not be allowed.

[Irrational]

Sigma, on 01 February 2013 - 09:01 PM, said:

if its natural, unprocessed, none lethal and none addictive then it should not be illegal to grow, use or supply.

its not illegal to go buy Fruit, Veg, and Mushrooms. Yet Possession of "Magic Mushrooms" is illegal.
you can if you wanted to grow, dry and smoke a Tobacco plant,  yet doing the same with a cannabis plant puts you behind bars.

Double standards should not be allowed.

So LSD shouldn't be legal because it's processed?

Also those people who vote "no" please voice your opinion! It's interesting to see the different points of views!

[Azidonis]

I don't think that anyone should have a right to tell someone else what to put into their own bodies.

If people choose to put substances into their bodies that can totally fuck their lives up, that is their problem, and they need to accept responsibility for their actions.

[Irrational]

Azidonis, on 01 February 2013 - 11:28 PM, said:

I don't think that anyone should have a right to tell someone else what to put into their own bodies.

If people choose to put substances into their bodies that can totally fuck their lives up, that is their problem, and they need to accept responsibility for their actions.

BaZing! Thank you

[Daemaro]

In my opinion everything should be legal. Some drugs are very serious and have long standing effects, which people are aware of but does crack being illegal stop a crack addict from smoking crack? No. It just makes it more taboo and harder for people to get help if they decide they need it because it's a huge social stigma as well as a illegal drug which makes them afraid of legal repercussion.

Drugs being illegal drives the market underground into seedy alleyway transactions and dirty condemned houses, and who's profiting from it all? Drug cartels, dealers, mules. It's a huge industry that because of the drugs being illegal it allows them to rake in a lot of cash from it.

Aside from that a lot of pain medication is opiate based already so I for sure think they should be all tested for medical benefits.

As far as commercial use there are some drugs, even if legalized will never see commercial use because they're far too destructive. Tobacco is far easier to smooth over and candy coat than meth. Even if the drugs were legal the political and social backlash of a company mass producing crack or meth for commercial use would be staggering and probably rightfully so.

[PillsPillsPills]

Azidonis, on 01 February 2013 - 11:28 PM, said:

I don't think that anyone should have a right to tell someone else what to put into their own bodies.

If people choose to put substances into their bodies that can totally fuck their lives up, that is their problem, and they need to accept responsibility for their actions.

This.  Plus, if everything was legalized, there would be more studies performed and more data would be available to everyone.  At that point, people could make an educated decision.

Portugal has decriminalized all drugs with positive results.  It's an obvious solution, but many people let their morals cloud their judgment in this case.  Also,  don't underestimate the power of the alcohol lobby.  They already used tons of money to prevent legalization in California.

[overneathe]

Azidonis, on 01 February 2013 - 11:28 PM, said:

I don't think that anyone should have a right to tell someone else what to put into their own bodies.

If people choose to put substances into their bodies that can totally fuck their lives up, that is their problem, and they need to accept responsibility for their actions.

I guess the issue here is that if you give people their freedom to do that then they might engage in it during pregnancy/conception and introduce it to their children during early age. And then begins the rights war against what parents can and can do to their children. Which so far is not even close to being resolved I think? At least I haven't read too much about it.