17 replies to this topic

[Desolacer]

The Ladder-System


How a Ladder-System could look like in Diablo 3.

All existing heroes now, are Non-Ladder-Characters.
When you create a new hero, you can select: "Non-Ladder" or "Ladder" (for both: softcore and hardcore)
A Ladder-Character is automatically in the current Ladder-Season.

Ladder-Characters...
... are integrated in the current Ladder-Season
... will only have a Gold AH (No RMAH)
... do not share artisan, stash and gold with Non-Ladder-Characters (like softcore and hardcore can't share their stash)
... can't play together with Non-Ladder-Characters (like softcore and hardcore can't play together)

NOTE: Non-Ladder-Characters can NOT be converted to Ladder-Characters


The Ladder Progression could look like:

Softcore Paragon Level Progression
Hardcore Paragon Level Progression
Softcore Monster Power Progression
Hardcore Monster Power Progression




The Paragon Level Progression is the progression of leveling to 100



Just to clarify again the total experience needed to 100:


The Monster Power Progression is the progression of killing each Inferno Boss:
Skeleton King
Queen Araneae
Butcher
Maghda
Zoltun Kulle
Belial
Ghom
Siegebreaker
Cydaea
Azmodan
Iskatu
Rakanoth
Izual
Diablo
Uber Boss: Ghom/Rakanoth
Uber Boss: Skeleton King/Maghda
Uber Boss: Siegebreaker/Zoltun Kulle

The Higher the Monster Power, the higher the points you will earn.
MP0 = 100 points
MP1 = 150 points
MP2 = 200 points
MP3 = 250 points
MP4 = 300 points
MP5 = 350 points
MP6 = 400 points
MP7 = 450 points
MP8 = 500 points
MP9 = 550 points
MP10 = 600 points



That Progression will be very similar to the wowprogress.com ranking system. The earlier you kill the boss
on Monster Power X, the higher points you will earn. The longer the ladder lasts, the lesser points you will earn
for killing the bosses. (Each week -2 points or -10 points per month)


Each Progression will be categorised in all 5 classes (Barbarian, Monk, Demon Hunter, Witch Doctor, Wizard)



People who don't know anything about the Ladder-System (Diablo 2): Here is a nice description i found in the web:

The "Ladder" in Diablo 2 is essentially a scoreboard that keeps track of the top characters in each realm. Occasionally, there is a Ladder reset,
where all Ladder characters are integrated into non-Ladder and Ladder characters must be created anew.

Since Ladder characters cannot interact at all with non-Ladder characters, this means there are two separate economies going at once.
Ladder characters do not have access to older items that may have been created before patches changed item drop rates or stats, or
old items made by item duplication exploits. Because of this, good items tend to be much more expensive in Ladder.

Additionally, there are some items that are only available in Ladder, and cannot be dropped or created (usually via a Rune Word) in non-Ladder.
These items continue to exist, however, when the Ladder characters are integrated with the non-Ladder during a reset, and these items can be quite
valuable in the non-Ladder economy.

Overall, Ladder in Diablo 2 is a way for Blizzard to help control the economy. If the economy is getting out of hand, a new Ladder season will just start
the economy over because everything is removed and has to be found from scratch again.

http://gaming.stacke...adder-character

Diablo 3 could easily transfer this feature with super success (That feature was one of the reasons, why Diablo 2 lived so long)
The only thing they could change is, not to implent Ladder-Only-Items
(so nobody can say, "why do I have to play Ladder to get better items?")



A Ladder-Season lasts a couple of months

When the Season ends:
All Ladder-Characters are automatically converted to Non-Ladder-Characters!


Advantage/Disadvantage
+ Nobody would lose their characters or equipment after a Ladder-Season ends.
+ People don't have to play a Ladder-Character to play the full game with all features
+ Playing on an official ranking-system
+ Refreshed Economy
+ The race to the top (Ladder-Racing)
+ "No-RMAH-Mode" on Softcore

- People can't play together from Non-Ladder to Ladder.

Edited by Desolacer, 30 January 2013 - 06:48 PM.

[Bagstone]

Desolacer, on 30 January 2013 - 05:55 PM, said:

That Progression will be very similar to the wowprogress.com ranking system. The earlier you kill the boss
on Monster Power X, the higher points you will earn. The longer the ladder lasts, the lesser points you will earn
for killing the bosses. (Each week -2 points or -10 points per month)

You have heard of Diabloprogress, have you?

The rest of your post is just suggesting to bring back the D2 ladder and has been proposed here, on Reddit, on the official forums and on many other channels several times. Most recent blue post: http://eu.battle.net...58368?page=2#22 => Maybe, maybe not.

/thread

Edited by Bagstone, 30 January 2013 - 06:08 PM.

[Desolacer]

Edited Concepts

Edited by Desolacer, 30 January 2013 - 06:20 PM.

[Jalatiphra]

the only reason why they will not implement this feature is because nobody would buy RMAH stuff only for non-ladder, since similar to diablo2 - you wont play your non-ladder characters anymore once a new season starts.

and if you're not interested in ladder, you're probably not  interested in serious gaming , thus you might be less likely to feel the urge to go RMAH

Ladder = less money for bli$$
thats about it .. the ladder design is flawless.
anyhow you can still make it that nonladders annd ladders can play together , just disable  trading and get 2 loot planes inn the same game.. nonladder and ladderr loot plane, so dropped items of non ladder characters dont drop for the ladder characters in the same game.

[Melt]

No RMAH yeah?

So people are going back to using ebay and goldselling sites... Great idea you got there

If anything remove the usage of the gold auction house. Those that want to spend $ on items are going to do so, RMAH or not. The gold auction house is the thing that trivializes your own progress.


You should focus on the main reason why Blizzard is not introducing the ladder instead of creating bot-farm points. The main reason is that a new player comes into the game and he doesn't know what a ladder is. He doesn't know what a nonladder is. So he choses one of those and after a while he meets a friend and they want to play/trade together... What happens? They can not do that because one of them is ladder and the other one isnt.

Fix THAT issue.

[maka]

So, we're still designing the game for "new players", are we?

[Xpire]

I like potatoes, not diablo 3. Ladder wont fix shit. Fix the CORE problems first, then start to think about ladder. Why play a game thats shitty to begin with in a hardcore fashion? Rather stay in PoE untill diablo 3 gets good or just stay in PoE thats already is a fun game.

And no, RMAH nor GAH is the problem. If you dont like them, dont use them. Never understood why peeps whines at ah is the core problem. But in one way It's a problem, considering the itemziation is fucked up due to it.

[Bagstone]

One thing about the ladder that people often forget: if D3 seasons last as long as D2 seasons, and paragon would equal the race to level 99, we would still be far away from a D3 ladder reset. What was the average length of a season? Couple of month, IIRC.

About the "no RMAH" part: IMHO it only makes sense if you make it completely "no trading". No RMAH just means that gold selling sites (that already exist) will become more popular. No AH just means the comeback of trading like in D2 (so just for a few people). Mmmh, dunno, no trading sounds kind of stupid; even though D3 is solo player centered, it goes too far. maka, I think you made a good point the other day about how the AH changed the game (or was it someone else? I just remember a really interesting post about that).

Anyways, even if Blizzard is gonna change something, they'll definitely not go back to good ol' D2 times. Just forget about that.

[Melt]

maka, on 30 January 2013 - 07:07 PM, said:

So, we're still designing the game for "new players", are we?

No, we just are not designing this game explicitly for you.

Edited by Melt, 30 January 2013 - 07:37 PM.

[Jaetch]

Does Blizzard even have a new game director to replace Wilson yet...?

[Xpire]

Melt, on 30 January 2013 - 07:28 PM, said:

maka, on 30 January 2013 - 07:07 PM, said:

So, we're still designing the game for "new players", are we?

No, we just are not designing this game explicitly for you.

No, they are designing the game for those who want everything to be served on a plate. You dont need to be uber geared to get diablo in inferno act 4 if with mp 1-4 if your not a complete retard. And the skill tree / passive tree is awsome... if you like that some one picks the skills for you. (Yes, some skills are so freaking outbalanced so you dont even use them. Ever.) So no customization at all.

Nice game.

Edited by Xpire, 30 January 2013 - 09:35 PM.

[Battleman13]

The ladder system is a great idea. I'd also remove the auction house in it's entirety.

Fix the drops so that people have half a chance of actually getting something decent they can use.

Fix the rolling system so that items that are certain class only don't roll the most worthless things ever
including every other non stat and things that make no sense at all.

Maybe make the auction house a trading house where you can post up items that are good for other chars
but not yours and then players offer items to you.

Then if you still want to have gold in the economy and use "gold", make it so no player can trade gold to another player
and so that no gold gets traded on the trading house at all. Players cannot "drop" gold either.

People could buy items, but the trading house system would make it a real pain. It would still go on but not nearly like it does today.

So this way it's much harder to "buy" your way through the game.

I'm all for the ladder system. Convert every existing char to NL, let the game exist the way it does for non ladder characters and let those who wish to move on to the ladder system with no auction house, no gold buying/trading and an ability to gear yourself through playing the game and not your paypal account.

[zeroRooter]

Everyone shut up. This is a good idea, and a ladder system is the only reason i still play diablo 2 - in fact i literrally throw away NL diablo 2 characters if they arent worth much

[Serpenth]

/sigh. I wish Blizzard never implemented the RMAH.  People just don't get it.  Too big of a scapegoat for the real problems with the game.

Anyways.  I like the ideas.  I think both Auction Houses should be included though.  I also kind of hope the expand the "uber" system beyond what it is now.  It has a lot of potential.  Especially with a ladder.

It's up to Blizzard though, hopefully first expansion brings the ladder.

[WizArt]

A Ladder-Season lasts a couple of months

wtf ?

[Bananaramaaah]

i never got this "ladder-thing" in diablo. but if it's fun for people, it's a good idea

[maka]

Melt, on 30 January 2013 - 07:28 PM, said:

maka, on 30 January 2013 - 07:07 PM, said:

So, we're still designing the game for "new players", are we?

No, we just are not designing this game explicitly for you.

For me? I don't even play ladder-type modes, so go bark up another tree. You're the one that said that this can't be done because it'll confuse new players. Seriously, at this point: who cares? How about making the game good for the people that are already playing?

Edited by maka, 30 January 2013 - 11:03 PM.

[Desolacer]

One of the biggest problem is, that the economy is completly ruined, because there is no economy refresh or something like that.
Blizzard tries to react by (for example) adding account bound items.
Imo, acc. bound items are not made for the Diablo series...