39 replies to this topic

[mikehardez]

While I've seen the topic brought up in various threads, I hadn't seen any dedicated discussion about the removal of "snapshotting" in 1.07.

If we assume no gear swapping, how do you guys think the standard builds (say, Cyclone and TR) will compare to 1.06 DPS wise?

It seems like TR is going to be strictly better, but I've seen some monks claiming the standard Cyclone build will actually get weaker, due to how Blinding Flash: FitL benefits from fast attack speed (i.e. dual wielding).

It seems safe to say that Blinding Flash: FitL generally won't be used anymore, but what skills does everyone plan to substitute? Does anyone think the newly buffed spirit spenders can be efficient in a standard Cyclone build? And while I strongly doubt it, does anyone think a build that doesn't use Sweeping Winds could ever compete against cookie-cutter Cyclone?

[stromchin]

Currently on 1.0.6 it takes me 67 seconds to kill ghom, but it takes me 75 in 1.0.7 PTR
this is using the same build, while trying to use bells as much as possible for example, it took even longer.
what worries more is the survivability though.

[Encanta]

looks like monks will have to bump their resists. The damage we are used to has been changed.

[Zuchi]

I'll probably go back to my old build with combination strike and 2 spirit regenerators (DR+Foresight for buff).

I might consider Cyclone Strike with the reduced spirit cost rune though.

[mikehardez]

Zuchi, on 24 January 2013 - 01:26 PM, said:

I'll probably go back to my old build with combination strike and 2 spirit regenerators (DR+Foresight for buff).

I might consider Cyclone Strike with the reduced spirit cost rune though.

Yeah, I was thinking something like this might become the new optimal dual-wield build:

http://us.battle.net...gVSk!TUg!acYYca

With Exploding Palm being buffed from 30% to 50% of mob's max health it seems strictly better than say, BoH: Blazing Wrath.

[Ethezial]

Honestly this is why I never abused snapshotting. I knew it would be altered/removed eventually. It won't affect me or my builds one bit. I'm actually glad to see it go.

[Zuchi]

mikehardez, on 25 January 2013 - 12:31 AM, said:

Yeah, I was thinking something like this might become the new optimal dual-wield build:

http://us.battle.net...gVSk!TUg!acYYca

With Exploding Palm being buffed from 30% to 50% of mob's max health it seems strictly better than say, BoH: Blazing Wrath.

Thing is I'm real reluctant to get spirit spenders as I don't use 4 set inna's so I have to re-cast sweeping wind from time to time. Plus most of my spirit goes on spamming mantra of conviction, so I'm spirit starved most of the time and was only considering Cylone Strike because of the reduced spirit cost rune, and because of its utility. But I just realized that it got nerfed to only pull 8 mobs. So I prbably won't go for it, and just use my old build which is really focused on doing damage with FoT+SW only regular spirit spender is the mantra, all other skills are either defensive or buffs:

http://us.battle.net...XgSk!XUg!acbYca

So much for buffing spirit spenders to improve build diversity eh? Until they reduce spirit cost of Mantra or increase base spirit regeneration, I probably won't be using spirit spenders.

Edited by Zuchi, 25 January 2013 - 09:20 AM.

[Temsen]

Actually, I'll probably keep blinding flash, it's still a nice defensive utility and it+mantra is probably the best damage boost you can get for that low spirit cost.

Still, that "nerf" is pretty annoying, monks weren't exactly the highest dps class even with the snapshotting (excluding the extreme gear swapping) and buffing a spirit spender that costs half your spirit doesn't exactly make me want to use it more..

[maka]

Ethezial, on 25 January 2013 - 07:35 AM, said:

Honestly this is why I never abused snapshotting. I knew it would be altered/removed eventually. It won't affect me or my builds one bit. I'm actually glad to see it go.

Same here. It was a bad mechanic, and I'm glad to see it go.

[thundersteele]

Has anyone tested this on the PTR? I wonder in particular what weapon the SW damage is based on now? Does it alternate between MH and OH, or does it cast from main-hand only?

[Shinna1989]

AFAIK its still the active weapon. They realy should change it to mainhand.

[Bleu42]

Temsen, on 25 January 2013 - 05:53 PM, said:

Actually, I'll probably keep blinding flash, it's still a nice defensive utility and it+mantra is probably the best damage boost you can get for that low spirit cost.

Still, that "nerf" is pretty annoying, monks weren't exactly the highest dps class even with the snapshotting (excluding the extreme gear swapping) and buffing a spirit spender that costs half your spirit doesn't exactly make me want to use it more..

this nerf should have been put in place months ago. It was a terrible mechanic that too many people abused.

[mikehardez]

Shinna1989, on 26 January 2013 - 12:59 AM, said:

AFAIK its still the active weapon. They realy should change it to mainhand.

With Sweeping Wind now dynamically updating, does this mean it will be recalculated with every hit when dual-wielding?

[Temsen]

Bleu42, on 26 January 2013 - 02:01 AM, said:

this nerf should have been put in place months ago. It was a terrible mechanic that too many people abused.

Sure, but there needs to be some better compensation for it, s'all I'm saying. The problem is that monks needed it to stay competetive in dps.

[wheunis]

mikehardez, on 26 January 2013 - 03:36 AM, said:

With Sweeping Wind now dynamically updating, does this mean it will be recalculated with every hit when dual-wielding?

Unless they change it to mainhand damage only (like Rend), then yes - SW damage will update/change to the active weapon with every strike.

[mikehardez]

Quote

Unless they change it to mainhand damage only (like Rend), then yes - SW damage will update/change to the active weapon with every strike.

I guess this means having high damage weapons in both hands will become extra important? Sounds like a real PITA.

Seems like Blizzard should really consider making SW behave like Rend now that snapshotting is gone.

[Polrayne]

mikehardez, on 25 January 2013 - 12:31 AM, said:

Zuchi, on 24 January 2013 - 01:26 PM, said:

I'll probably go back to my old build with combination strike and 2 spirit regenerators (DR+Foresight for buff).

I might consider Cyclone Strike with the reduced spirit cost rune though.

Yeah, I was thinking something like this might become the new optimal dual-wield build:

http://us.battle.net...gVSk!TUg!acYYca

With Exploding Palm being buffed from 30% to 50% of mob's max health it seems strictly better than say, BoH: Blazing Wrath.

Just so I'm clear - SW does not really benefit from a snapshot at all anymore - just the dps of each weapon (if you DW) and the current dps at the time?  So Blinding Flash will only help SW while the 4 seconds of Blinding Flash is up?

I assumed that I read the notes correctly - so I started experimenting with Exploding Palm for the first time.  I see the beenfit, the dmg is nice - however, I have an Echoing Fury and I can't get the benefit of Exploding Palm in action very much, becuase of the fear on EF.  So I also added in Cyclone Strike.  Which again, helps, but with burning through so much spirit to constant spam Cyclone Strike and Exploding Palm - I very rarely have the spirit to be able to recast Sweeping Winds when it falls off at the next set of mobs.

Thoughts?

[wheunis]

Polrayne, on 27 January 2013 - 05:10 PM, said:

Just so I'm clear - SW does not really benefit from a snapshot at all anymore - just the dps of each weapon (if you DW) and the current dps at the time?  So Blinding Flash will only help SW while the 4 seconds of Blinding Flash is up?

I assumed that I read the notes correctly - so I started experimenting with Exploding Palm for the first time.  I see the beenfit, the dmg is nice - however, I have an Echoing Fury and I can't get the benefit of Exploding Palm in action very much, becuase of the fear on EF.  So I also added in Cyclone Strike.  Which again, helps, but with burning through so much spirit to constant spam Cyclone Strike and Exploding Palm - I very rarely have the spirit to be able to recast Sweeping Winds when it falls off at the next set of mobs.

Thoughts?

Correct, the buff from Blinding Flash will only last the few seconds that it is active, after which SW will not retain the buff, same as everything else.

My thoughts on the spirit spending issue?
I am very much inclined to start using TR build, as many bars do with WW, for farming AND ubers - making it my primary and only build...
That and, I've always hated EF for the fear thing. Used it once for 20 minutes and never touched it again.

Edited by wheunis, 27 January 2013 - 05:45 PM.

[Genndori]

Wave of light Is completely amazing on the PTR If youre using a 2H build, It crushes spamming overawe. If you are using a TR build youll be swimming in spirit you can use both Mantra and Wave of light for high MP farming ( I can kill most elite packs in Under 15 seconds on MP6 on the PTR).

Ive been experimenting with an exploding palm/wave of light TR build too, Im not sure I like it, but when you pull it off just right the effects are amazing

[mikehardez]

Polrayne, on 27 January 2013 - 05:10 PM, said:

Just so I'm clear - SW does not really benefit from a snapshot at all anymore - just the dps of each weapon (if you DW) and the current dps at the time?  So Blinding Flash will only help SW while the 4 seconds of Blinding Flash is up?

I assumed that I read the notes correctly - so I started experimenting with Exploding Palm for the first time.  I see the beenfit, the dmg is nice - however, I have an Echoing Fury and I can't get the benefit of Exploding Palm in action very much, becuase of the fear on EF.  So I also added in Cyclone Strike.  Which again, helps, but with burning through so much spirit to constant spam Cyclone Strike and Exploding Palm - I very rarely have the spirit to be able to recast Sweeping Winds when it falls off at the next set of mobs.

Thoughts?

EF's fear is a problematic, and it only gets worse at higher MP levels. One solution I've seen people opt for is using Butcher's Sickle in conjunction with EF. The hook procs quite often so it can really help to reel in your target before they go sprinting off the screen. That being said, I'm not really a fan of EF as the high DPS it provides is almost theoretical in the face of the fear proc. But if you've already invested in a good EF, I think a good Butcher's Sickle is worth looking into.

As for the spirit issues, although it's not as important for dual-wielding builds (as opposed to TR), the 4-piece bonus from Inna's Grandeur reduces SW's spirit cost to a paltry 5 spirit. But if you don't at least have two pieces already, I wouldn't worry about it. The removal of snapshotting actually devalues the 4-piece bonus; since the damage of SW is now dynamically recalculated, the only incentives to keep SW "rolling" are:

1) Avoiding having to pay the spirit cost for recasting

2) Keeping your stacks (which are trivial to regain with even moderate crit chance)

Since number 2 is basically a non-issue, occasionally having to pay 75 spirit to recast SW isn't a huge problem. But in case you weren't already doing this, you can refresh SW by punching objects (bone piles, barrels, etc.). Just make sure you have line of effect so you teleport to the object, otherwise you may end up blowing it up with SW's aura before you can punch. This will help you to keep SW going when you end up in dead zones (i.e. areas without mobs).

Hope these suggestions help!