183 replies to this topic

[Catalept]

Deventh, on 17 January 2013 - 08:55 PM, said:

"Vague" LOL.
There is people who work in there for more than 15 years and are still going strong.
Clearly the decision wasn't his, but from a higher up.

You haven't been reading the right blue posts. GC himself as well as at least a couple of CMs have said that job descriptions at Blizzard aren't as rigid as they are at other companies, and they have a fairly flat hierarchy. I reserve the right to maintain that 'Lead Designer' doesn't mean 'person who makes all the decisions'.

He didn't say he's leaving Blizzard, he said he's switching projects.

Clearly the decision was delivered by the people working over him. Or under him. Or his family. Or the cosmos twitched and his alphabet soup spelled "Time to leave the D3 team" in his alphabet soup yesterday evening. Clearly.

[Polrayne]

He's moving on.  Whether its his choice or not there is clear reason for it.  He wants to do something else and Blizzard wants him to do something else.

And why is that?  Because clearly Diablo 3 is not the amazing success they wanted.  Sure there are tons of other reasons, but they can all simply be boiled down to the game needs a change.  If the game was an outstanding success, than he wouldn't want to do something different and Blizzard wouldn't want him to do something different.

Don't blame him.  The buck stops at the top.  And he isn't the top - far from it.  He managed a team for this game - BLIZZARD owns the game and the path they want it to take.  He (jay) makes it happen.  Because that was his job.

Whether or not a new LD and path to the game takes flight, will greatly depend on whether the Powers That Be at Blizzard want to let go of their model of the game as it is.

[DeAdLiNebg]

"I have a bad feeling about this."
No matter what mistakes he has done, it is really hard to think of someone new, even new for Blizzard if they hire someone who isn't working for them, to work on something that has been already 7 years in the making. Not to mention that we won't really see any new patches in the near future.

Edited by DeAdLiNebg, 17 January 2013 - 09:44 PM.

[ruksak]

He was obviously forced out.

His fatal error was throwing away too much of what the core fans wanted and attempting to better them. He should've taken what the fans loved about D2 and added to it........not take away these things and replace them with failed ideas.

These great things below, about D2, should've been added to, not replaced or just flat-out destroyed.

Removed cows; Result; Whimsy~fail.

Killed Cain; Result; Insult was added to the injury as fans seemed to hold a consensus opinion that Cain is a critical component in the Diablo franchise. This decision was ego based, a way of making his own (Wilson's) mark.

Removed Rune Words; Result; This very exciting, dynamic and powerful item base was replaced with absolutely nothing. With the linear and stale offerings in terms of Rares and Legendaries, the absence of RW's further left a void for the fans.

Removed Hostiling; Result; Players have waged through the first 8 months of this game with no endgame, no PvP. Leaving the player feeling as if the only point to D3 was to farm for better items for you can farm for even better items so that you can farm for better items (infinity).

Removed Jewels, Runes and several gem types; Result; An already unflattering itemization table was made even more unimpressive by severely limiting the players ability to customize their build with a wide variety of effects.

Edited by ruksak, 17 January 2013 - 09:54 PM.

[Cinnamohn]

ruksak, on 17 January 2013 - 09:50 PM, said:

He was obviously forced out.

His fatal error was throwing away too much of what the core fans wanted and attempting to better them. He should've taken what the fans loved about D2 and added to it........not take away these things and replace them with failed ideas.

These great things below, about D2, should've been added to, not replaced or just flat-out destroyed.

Removed cows; Result; Whimsy~fail.

Killed Cain; Result; Insult was added to the injury as fans seemed to hold a consensus opinion that Cain is a critical component in the Diablo franchise. This decision was ego based, a way of making his own (Wilson's) mark.

Removed Rune Words; Result; This very exciting, dynamic and powerful item base was replaced with absolutely nothing. With the linear and stale offerings in terms of Rares and Legendaries, the absence of RW's further left a void for the fans.

Removed Hostiling; Result; Players have waged through the first 8 months of this game with no endgame, no PvP. Leaving the player feeling as if the only point to D3 was to farm for better items for you can farm for even better items so that you can farm for better items (infinity).

Removed Jewels, Runes and several gem types; Result; An already unflattering itemization table was made even more unimpressive by severely limiting the players ability to customize their build with a wide variety of effects.

I like to pretend Diablo 3 is just a bad dream and that the real one will either be made someday far in the future or will just never happen.

[Boss_Hogg]

They probably moved him to the new Blizzard MMO project they're working on right now.  I can't remember the name.

Edited by Boss_Hogg, 17 January 2013 - 10:04 PM.

[Catalept]

Cinnamohn, on 17 January 2013 - 09:59 PM, said:

I like to pretend Diablo 3 is just a bad dream and that the real one will either be made someday far in the future or will just never happen.

I feel the same about the whole MMS genre. /offtopic

[Cyberwaste]

Send him to wow where he will fit in with the others that ruined that game.

[Deventh]

Catalept, on 17 January 2013 - 09:41 PM, said:

Deventh, on 17 January 2013 - 08:55 PM, said:

"Vague" LOL.
There is people who work in there for more than 15 years and are still going strong.
Clearly the decision wasn't his, but from a higher up.

You haven't been reading the right blue posts. GC himself as well as at least a couple of CMs have said that job descriptions at Blizzard aren't as rigid as they are at other companies, and they have a fairly flat hierarchy. I reserve the right to maintain that 'Lead Designer' doesn't mean 'person who makes all the decisions'.

He didn't say he's leaving Blizzard, he said he's switching projects.

Clearly the decision was delivered by the people working over him. Or under him. Or his family. Or the cosmos twitched and his alphabet soup spelled "Time to leave the D3 team" in his alphabet soup yesterday evening. Clearly.

Maybe not all, but the major ones are from his side.
So he is switching from LEAD Designer which i can only bet that it pays good to a less important job in another project? And only a few months after he finished his work on a 7+ years old development on Diablo 3? I can only assume that they won't let him be a Lead Designer again for known reasons.
Under him? Really? His family? I won't even comment that.

[Fyle]

cool.

this is interesting...

I wish I had something witty to say but that's good news. This may actually get some real changes to occur.

( ´ ▽ ` )ﾉ(=´∀｀)人(´∀｀=)

[Serpenth]

ruksak, on 17 January 2013 - 09:50 PM, said:

Killed Cain; Result; Insult was added to the injury as fans seemed to hold a consensus opinion that Cain is a critical component in the Diablo franchise. This decision was ego based, a way of making his own (Wilson's) mark.

Chris Metzen killed Cain.  He does the lore.  However the rest of your post has valid points and is a display of why Wilson is out.

No, Wilson is not the sole person, the only decision maker on the team.  He plays a big part.  He's the head coach of a football team.  If his assistants mess up it doesn't matter because he is the leader of the pack.  If your team goes 2-14 the coach will be fired and the root of the problem doesn't matter.  If your game dramatically fails to meet even the slightest expectations of a majority of the media and fan base then your design theory will come under scrutiny.  

I find it ironic that for the last 8 months Jay Wilson receives all the heat.  Then it's "this won't fix anything" and "Jay Wilson wasn't the problem".  Just proof that people who are not satisfied are more likely to voice their opinion.  Fired, demoted, "moved to a new opportunity" it doesn't matter what it is.  He didn't move on to something bigger and/or better.  He didn't receive any form of promotion.  Do I know this for fact?  Not at all.  The evidence is just there - it wasn't working out.

[Marciao]

well maybe most of the time of those 7 years were nice for him while he worked on diablo 3... but since the release and all the things goin on... damn he must be burned out... He maybe did some good things for the game but cant name em because i dont know what exactly he used and what stopped from happening but i hope new force will break the stereotype and fix the god damn boring loot system that is there now

[RTG_Sibcoe]

hey guys - I posted up a video about this over on the RTG Community Channel, check it out for some additional thoughts on the topic:


Jay Wilson Quits D3

it's fairly short form, no need to summarize.  Enjoy.  

Cheers 0/

RTG Sibcoe
-------------------
www.yotube.com/redteamgaming
www.twitter.com/redteamgaming
www.facebook.com/Sibcoe

[shaggy]

Serpenth, on 17 January 2013 - 10:14 PM, said:

He's the head coach of a football team.  If his assistants mess up it doesn't matter because he is the leader of the pack.  If your team goes 2-14 the coach will be fired and the root of the problem doesn't matter.

And goodbye to Andy Reid too.  He fostered too much complacence among the Eagles.

But you bring up a legitemate, and very relevant, point.  A lot of the decisions probably weren't made DIRECTLY by Jay Wilson, they were probably made by the systems leads in all likelihood.  But as the game lead he was definitely responsible for the general direction of the game and the decisions his underlings were making.

Edited by shaggy, 17 January 2013 - 10:30 PM.

[ruksak]

Serpenth, on 17 January 2013 - 10:14 PM, said:

ruksak, on 17 January 2013 - 09:50 PM, said:

Killed Cain; Result; Insult was added to the injury as fans seemed to hold a consensus opinion that Cain is a critical component in the Diablo franchise. This decision was ego based, a way of making his own (Wilson's) mark.

Chris Metzen killed Cain.  He does the lore.  However the rest of your post has valid points and is a display of why Wilson is out.

True but Wilson had the reigns. It was his call ultimately. Shit rolls downhill etc etc....

Quote

  Fired, demoted, "moved to a new opportunity" it doesn't matter what it is.  He didn't move on to something bigger and/or better.  He didn't receive any form of promotion.  Do I know this for fact?  Not at all.  The evidence is just there - it wasn't working out.

I assure you and everyone else, the man was "relieved of his duties", forcefully, and extended the opportunity to move to another project. There is no way Wilson would've willingly quit and allowed another person to come in behind him and finish the project that took Wilson 7 years.

What it boils down to is ....ego. Wilson allowed his ego to guide his development decisions, consistently replacing beloved aspects of the Diablo franchise in an attempt to replace these ideas with his own.

[Gnackwatschn]

brx, on 17 January 2013 - 08:52 PM, said:

Anyway for me it was pretty much a known thing he would quit or be fired from the moment he tweeted about the pvp blog then had to draw back that statement. It showed there was some discord between him and maybe some higher ranked actiblizzard officials.

this was just for the chrismas sales .. blizz knows how to hype up the ppl to get them buy their games...
it was just a huge bluff ... nothing else

Edited by Gnackwatschn, 17 January 2013 - 10:37 PM.

[Westy357]

Big companies move people around all the time, it's just a business decision. I have nothing against Jay Wilson he seems like a dedicated hardworking person, and I wish him well in his future endeavors.

Will this be a good decision for the game itself, we'll see over time, maybe? The higher ups must believe (or hope)  that it will be.

[ruksak]

Sell, on 17 January 2013 - 10:51 PM, said:

The notion that he did this of his own choosing is comical to me.  

+1 billion likes (I'll have to owe you the other 999,999,999 likes).

Pffffft....we all know the score, or at least those of us that are somewhat world-wise. The man dedicated 7 years of his life to this project. Assuredly there were very long hours and tons of stress that many of us couldn't even relate to.

Being that Wilson hadn't committed a crime or some other egregious mistake, he was given the opportunity to be "moved" as opposed to an all out firing. Not only would firing him be somewhat unethical, but this move would stand to make Blizz appear flaky and possibly suffering internally, something the stock holders would not be pleased with.

Edited by ruksak, 17 January 2013 - 10:56 PM.

[eldimmy]

In the end Jay Wilson knows:

Quote

This is what you can always count on from Blizzard: that we will stand by our games and make every effort to continually improve them over time. We heard the feedback and suggestions from the community. For example, we agreed that Diablo III's itemization at launch was not good enough, so the team made numerous changes, including changing drop rates, re-tuning legendaries, and adding scores of new items to the game. We also agreed that the end game needed more depth, so the team added new events, and new systems like Monster Power and Paragon levels.

Unfortunately for the game, the itemization is the biggest flaw, and just destroyed the whole game. He knows he can't just, for example, put d2 itemization and put years and years of development into the thrash you know. It would mess with people items, RMAH, etc.

I think that's good for him and the game, he tried, but it doesn't work for diablo 3. Hopefully he get a better project and start a new cicle in his career.

[ruksak]

eldimmy, on 17 January 2013 - 11:02 PM, said:

In the end Jay Wilson knows:

Quote

This is what you can always count on from Blizzard: that we will stand by our games and make every effort to continually improve them over time. We heard the feedback and suggestions from the community. For example, we agreed that Diablo III's itemization at launch was not good enough, so the team made numerous changes, including changing drop rates, re-tuning legendaries, and adding scores of new items to the game. We also agreed that the end game needed more depth, so the team added new events, and new systems like Monster Power and Paragon levels.

Unfortunately for the game, the itemization is the biggest flaw, and just destroyed the whole game. He knows he can't just, for example, put d2 itemization and put years and years of development into the thrash you know. It would mess with people items, RMAH, etc.

I think that's good for him and the game, he tried, but it doesn't work for diablo 3. Hopefully he get a better project and start a new cicle in his career.

lol...."Not good enough"....REALLY?

That's a bit understated, ain't it?

That's like saying the holocaust was a cultural misunderstanding.

The Legendaries were absolutely RIDICULOUS at launch, fucking shit-can terrible. HOW HOW HOW did they preview these LEGENDARY items and give them the green light? I mean....they actually had these items on their table for review and they passed them.

What's more is, the items still aren't right. Far too many lvl60+ legs have NO CHANCE of rolling well enough to ever use under any circumstances.