60 replies to this topic

[Bagstone]

Do you feel that 3.01 is really worth it? Isn't it better to stay at a stable 2.73 which provides enough stunlock and then up EHP+DPS? Didn't Loroese provide some research months ago showing that the additional APS doesn't add too much DPS, and since you can reach stable stunlock with 2.73... I ask myself if it's really worth it to push to 3.01 - or rather get a black weapon or Chanto with socket to push for higher DPS...

[RasAlgethi24]

Bagstone, on 19 February 2013 - 08:16 AM, said:

Do you feel that 3.01 is really worth it? Isn't it better to stay at a stable 2.73 which provides enough stunlock and then up EHP+DPS? Didn't Loroese provide some research months ago showing that the additional APS doesn't add too much DPS, and since you can reach stable stunlock with 2.73... I ask myself if it's really worth it to push to 3.01 - or rather get a black weapon or Chanto with socket to push for higher DPS...

I've tried dropping to 2.73.  It's a big difference against ubers.  Against everything else, the difference is much less noticeable and you have a point.  I do a lot of ubering with my CM though so the 3.0 breakpoint is definitely worth it to me.

[Ilyustar]

is it critical if I end up with a chantodos offhand with 8 instead of 9/10 ApoC? (ending up with 17 apoc)

Edited by Ilyustar, 19 February 2013 - 11:32 AM.

[Bagstone]

Ilyustar, on 19 February 2013 - 11:08 AM, said:

is it critical if I end up with a chantodos offhand with 8 instead of 9/10 ApoC? (ending up with 17 apoc)

I think there are different opinions about that. Initially I was about to say "no". But then I looked at the old, infamous CMWW formula. With 2.73 APS and 50% CC, the values are 6.53 for 19 APoC and 5.84 for 17 APoC. Doesn't seem like a big difference at first, but if you try to "compensate" with CC you realize that you need to bump your CC from 50% to 56%. So... I'd say it *is* critical, given that 6% CC at this stage of gearing are very expensive :-)

[Ilyustar]

those are the ones in pricerange

[Bagstone]

I haven't tried it myself, but you might wanna test the D3ItemReader from inDiablo which scans items (from a screenshot, no memory reading so no harm done in using this) and supports translation of the item to English (if I'm not mistaken).

Regarding the items, it's a tough choice. Before looking at the formula I would have said go with the 190m one, but now I'm leaning towards the 10 APoC piece b/c I just learned it's stunlock weighs as much as 6% crit and you can't get APoC anywhere else afterwards, unlike DPS. Can you put all your equipment and these two into a spreadsheet and compare them? Maybe just post the D3up comparison box?

Edit: I just lol'd at the grammar mistake in the legendary text at the bottom. Seriously, Blizzard should just cancel translating their games.

Edited by Bagstone, 19 February 2013 - 12:50 PM.

[Ilyustar]

nvm

Edit: Bought one, 233 avg dmg, 190 int, 10% crit, 9% IAS, 10 ApoC, 13 Max AP and 8% specblades

200mil


d3up is now resynced with the other build and chant force: http://d3up.com/b/274298

Edited by Ilyustar, 19 February 2013 - 06:50 PM.

[Loroese]

Regarding the 3.0 APS vs 2.73, I have never actually tried 3.0 APS. For farming, it seems like a bit of overkill, and I've even dropped to 2.5 APS because I can eek out an extra 30-40k dps over the 2.73 breakpoint thanks to black weapon + triumvirate+zuni boots. I don't really have a lot of time to run ubers, but with 100 ms latency I can still run ubers at 2.5 APS, though locking Kulle down is a little harder.

As for my previous calculations with the various breakpoints, my findings were that I would lose dps going from 2.5 to 2.73 or 3.0 APS. However, that was with the assumption that CM and APoC procs were based off the LoH tic mechanics for WW. Recent evidence is showing that they seem to be more like the SA model, which might change the results. However, due to a lack of testing, we don't know what the model is for sure.

To compare the different gear levels, you can use Steve's CMWW dps simulator. I think it has some default settings that take the SA, CM, and APoC procs into account, though I haven't used it myself since it isn't supported by IE.

[Jaetch]

Just speaking from experience, I ran 2.73 (and below, which I hated) and 3.0+ APS for ubers. At 3.0 it's essentially guaranteed stunlock on a single target unless your fingers slip. At 2.73 there is a risk that a target like Kulle can pull off a teleport, forcing you to reset and reposition. Of course, 2.73 is enough, but if you want to go easy mode and basically watch TV as you mash the buttons, run 3.0+ APS.

You won't be the only source of DPS during ubers unless you plan on soloing. I chose to cripple my sheet DPS slightly in favor of actually permanently disabling my targets and becoming invincible during MP10 uber runs.

[Ilyustar]

Okay bought a BT Cross, the d3up profile is updated.
Left with 300mil - I got my eyes on a tal rashas chest with high vit / high int, armor & 9% IAS.

Cant seem to find good BT pants or Natalyas Ring - but I really have to do something about my rings.


Edit: Here the Tal Chest: http://imageshack.us.../6356/talud.jpg
Is this worth 100mil? :x

Edited by Ilyustar, 20 February 2013 - 10:17 AM.

[Bagstone]

I don't think I would pay 100m for that. Keep in mind that you vit can go up to 300 on chest, so 200 is not necessarily max, even though it takes up an additional affix slot. I'd rather try to get one with allres, or even lower vit and armor+allres. I'm not too sure about the prices in that range, but I personally want a Tal chest with allres for my "endgame gear".

For 100m you can almost get a Mempo with crit, btw ;-)

[Ilyustar]

I've been playing around with nat's boots & ring and I always end up with -10-14k dps and +15k-20k EHP - doenst feel right to spend 150-200mil for that

[Bagstone]

No, it doesn't. Then rather go for high crit, max IAS rare rings.

[Ilyustar]

been looking for tal rashas with all res, unpayable on EU

Found BT Pants for 60mil buyout: http://imageshack.us/f/32/btpants.jpg/
The Loh is pretty essential & I could skip some on the rings.. worth it?

Edited by Ilyustar, 20 February 2013 - 02:28 PM.

[Loroese]

I don't know anything about EU prices. For 60 mil on the US server that seems way over priced. I got my pants for 45 mil, and they have armor instead of the int/dex roll. Try looking for 50-60 resist with 600-700 total armor. Unless your armor is more than 10x your resists, 100 armor > 10 resist so you can swap some resist for armor in that respect, possibly lower the cost, and gain a little EHP out of the deal.

Regarding the Nat's set, yes, they're lower dps than most other options. The extra crit you get from them can offset it when you calculate an effective dps though, which is why a lot of people use them. That and the high EHP of the set is pretty nice. However, since you already have pretty decent EHP boots, then you might just be better off with a rare ring.

I also agree with Bagstone that for Tal's chest, I want resist on it for end game. I don't know how much a high vit/high AR chest is, but my guess is a bit beyond your budget. I'd start by looking at 50-60 resist and see what the prices are. I'm guessing you won't be able to find one with that plus armor for under 100 mil (the good ones start around 100 mil on he US AH last I looked). If you do look at them, remember that dropping 20 resist for 200 armor is a good trade.

[Ilyustar]

so my next steps would be, decent bt pants, new tal rashas chest -> ring(s) -> boots?

[Ilyustar]

tal rashas with 150+ int 170+ vit and 40+ all res start at 200-250mil :'(

BT Pants: -3k DPS +50k EHP with high Vitality (150+ without setbonus) and 90-100 int
-3k DPS +27k EHP with armor and 90-100 int and 90-100 vit
both with 70-80 all res (price between 20-50mil)

Edited by Ilyustar, 22 February 2013 - 09:01 PM.

[Ilyustar]

profile updated: http://d3up.com/b/274298

left with 90 mil, any suggestions?

[Ilyustar]

so, I'm back after another break and still stuck with this gear: http://d3up.com/b/274298

The build plays good, my ehp feels fine - I wanna farm around in MP7-10 but the damage is missing to make it fun.

I'm stuck on 160mil, I wanna stay at this EHP-Level, and stay above 2,73 APS - what would the biggest damage boost be?

[Jaetch]

A harder hitting weapon would be one to start. Most straightforward option, but also the most expensive.