25 replies to this topic

[Küken]

Hey.

I was wondering: The new crafts all have 5 affixes + 1 selectable main stat. I am pretty sure, you cannot roll the main stat affix a 2nd time, just the 2 stat affixes including the main stat. Also, the crafts usually have about 200 mainstat, if the item type can have a high value of this stat (like vitality on a chest piece) and 100 if not.
So combined with a 2 stat affix, you would reach about 300 stat for a high stat piece and 200 for another, which is just about the same you could get with any rare right now, right? Also, they have 6 affixes, just like a dropped rare can get. Not to mention they cannot roll any affixes only available on legendaries.

So what makes these items BiS? Is there a significant difference? Or would a perfectly rolled craft beat a perfectly rolled rare by like 5 stat points?

[Trocal]

The chest pieces only roll 100-115 or something of a chosen stat while the other recipes roll the highest range in the game.

True, pure main stats can only be rolled once, but then there's the case of let's say 200 dex + a 100 vit 100 dex roll (this comes in other combinations as well).

I crafted these intellect gloves: http://img690.images...8/gloveslol.jpg
This probably isn't the best example, but I believe it has rolled dex once and then a dex + vit roll

The thing with the crafted items is that you are guaranteed an item with 6 properties (1 being chosen) rather than going out farming 60 ilvl63 items and having all of them only roll 4 properties.


I have no idea whether this helped at all or not, I just go up so I can't brain properly until I've had my coffee.

[sssdrawr]

Here are my int amu crafts

http://i.imgur.com/x2KXd.jpg

[WizArt]

sssdrawr, on 16 January 2013 - 11:23 AM, said:

Here are my int amu crafts

http://i.imgur.com/x2KXd.jpg

All crap. Waste of time.

[sssdrawr]

Ye they are but 6 stats and min. 200 Int/Str/Dex is not a waste of time.

[Diavolo222]

Dat Modz crafted on his stream today some Dex amus and he got like 2 very good ones and 1 that was pretty sick so u can get nice stuff

[Trocal]

WizArt, on 16 January 2013 - 11:27 AM, said:

All crap. Waste of time.

So is going out farming an equal amount of amulets from elites only to likely roll lower stats than those amulets, right?
Although, when farming those amulets, you would get demonic essences which you could then use to craft another round of amulets without even having to go out killing stuff.

Edited by Trocal, 16 January 2013 - 11:47 AM.

[Trocal]

Diavolo222, on 16 January 2013 - 11:45 AM, said:

Dat Modz crafted on his stream today some Dex amus and he got like 2 very good ones and 1 that was pretty sick so u can get nice stuff

The crafted stuff isn't any worse or have any restrictions on their ability to roll affixes compared to the 63's you find in act 3.
Though being unable to roll a main stat lower than 200 is a kind of restriction.

[Ryude]

I think the problem is that because gear matters so much in diablo 3 compared to every other ARPG, any item you find/craft that doesn't have the exact properties you want with the desired values is useless. There are 2 solutions I see to this problem.

1. Remove dependency on items.
- This won't happen, RMAH. nuff said.
2. Improve useless properties and reduce value ranges.
- This might happen, but as usual Blizzard will do it so slowly that by the time they get it right it will be 2018.

[m4st0d0n]

sssdrawr, on 16 January 2013 - 11:36 AM, said:

Ye they are but 6 stats and min. 200 Int/Str/Dex is not a waste of time.

- Go to AH
- Enter 200 Int or Str or Dex
- Browse more than 22 pages of amulets per stat

It's hard to justify 250-300k gold per craft just because of relatively high main stat, but considering that it's quite easy to craft nearly infinite amounts of it, the richest players will almost certainly get good rolls (after investing hundreds of millions of gold). Good amulets are hard to come by even on AH/RMAH, so it's not a wasted investment for the rich. It's not for the casuals though, wasting tens of millions of gold without the guarantee of a good roll is not smart.

Another guys rolls, 17/17 crap:
http://i.imgur.com/RjtO6.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/nlrGW.jpg

Edited by m4st0d0n, 16 January 2013 - 12:39 PM.

[Zosed]

seems like it aint recuse crafting at all.

maby if u can chose 2 of 6 affixses ; p

[Chiron]

Ryude, on 16 January 2013 - 12:06 PM, said:

I think the problem is that because gear matters so much in diablo 3 compared to every other ARPG, any item you find/craft that doesn't have the exact properties you want with the desired values is useless. There are 2 solutions I see to this problem.

1. Remove dependency on items.
- This won't happen, RMAH. nuff said.
2. Improve useless properties and reduce value ranges.
- This might happen, but as usual Blizzard will do it so slowly that by the time they get it right it will be 2018.

I'm having a hard time imagining Diablo (or any ARPG) with no dependency on items. I think what you meant to say is that there should be a wider variety of "BiS" items so that everyone wouldn't go for primary stat + IAS + CC + CD + others. I don't see how this would influence the (RM)AH though, as people would trade for the best items regardless what the items themselves are.

I agree that there should be more affixes that are useful. Though I don't know what affixes you meant by "useless", I can only think of "melee attackers take damage" and even that can be useful in some builds. For example pickup radius and extra health from globes&potions are extremely useful with the right build.

Maybe the items with less affixes could have higher max values. Like in D2 magic items could have higher bonuses than rares. This could create interesting choices where you would have to choose between more affixes or higher value affixes.

As for the topic, I think Blizzard is going the right way by adding more useful crafting options. I don't know if these newly added crafts will be popular as they are now but at least it's a start and Blizzard can then adjust them as needed. I think crafting is the sort of "gambling" mechanic a game like this needs (glorified slot machine).

Edited by Chiron, 16 January 2013 - 01:45 PM.

[Analogkid]

Hold on, if in the first day of PTR there aren't ultra-uber stat items rolled then it sucks, game over.

Can't please some people.  Think of it as the Hellfire Ring and how many times some roll to just get an ok one.  Yeah, exclude the xp (in before obvious argument).

[Zero(pS)]

Ryude, on 16 January 2013 - 12:06 PM, said:

I think the problem is that because gear matters so much in diablo 3 compared to every other ARPG, any item you find/craft that doesn't have the exact properties you want with the desired values is useless. There are 2 solutions I see to this problem.

1. Remove dependency on items.
- This won't happen, RMAH. nuff said.
2. Improve useless properties and reduce value ranges.
- This might happen, but as usual Blizzard will do it so slowly that by the time they get it right it will be 2018.

That happened in Torchlight 2. I finished the game with items that required char lvl 14. It feels awful.

In a game that's all about hunting items, having them mean absolutely nothing and be 100% useless on combat outcome is just horrible.

People need to realize that not everyone will have BiS items with maxed stats and that's perfectly fine. It doesn't mean that everything else is useless, as a lot of ignorant players (who have 10 hours a day to farm) like to label them.

Analogkid, on 16 January 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

Hold on, if in the first day of PTR there aren't ultra-uber stat items rolled then it sucks, game over.

Can't please some people.  Think of it as the Hellfire Ring and how many times some roll to just get an ok one.  Yeah, exclude the xp (in before obvious argument).

Also, this ^

[Ryude]

Thanks for taking my post and making it seem like I want the extremes of gear having no effect at all.

There's a balance, but in D3's case the balance is heavily weighted towards the gear side.

[Corpsie]

m4st0d0n, on 16 January 2013 - 12:35 PM, said:

It's hard to justify 250-300k gold per craft just because of relatively high main stat, but considering that it's quite easy to craft nearly infinite amounts of it, the richest players will almost certainly get good rolls (after investing hundreds of millions of gold). Good amulets are hard to come by even on AH/RMAH, so it's not a wasted investment for the rich. It's not for the casuals though, wasting tens of millions of gold without the guarantee of a good roll is not smart.

Why is it 250-300k per craft?

I never understand the reasoning behind buying crafting mats to do crafting, the whole idea of crafting is to use the materials you get  from your own farming sessions + the craft costs. Not to buy everything and hope to roll the perfect item, only get get crap the first few times then label it a waste of time and money.

Fuck this AH it ruined the game, and everyones attitude to aquiring items!

[JKlimek]

Corpsie, on 16 January 2013 - 07:48 PM, said:

Why is it 250-300k per craft?

Because you could sell the materials.  This is a pretty common misconception that people see only the 100k investment cost at the Jeweler, but even if you farm the mats yourself, you could have sold those, so you have to treat each craft as an opportunity cost of 250-300k.

Thanks Microeconomics class!

[maka]

Corpsie, on 16 January 2013 - 07:48 PM, said:

Why is it 250-300k per craft?

I never understand the reasoning behind buying crafting mats to do crafting, the whole idea of crafting is to use the materials you get  from your own farming sessions + the craft costs. Not to buy everything and hope to roll the perfect item, only get get crap the first few times then label it a waste of time and money.

Fuck this AH it ruined the game, and everyones attitude to aquiring items!

You're forgetting the opportunity cost.
Picking up and ID'ing every single rare and magic item will add a lot of time to your runs; that's time that could be spent making gold.
Plus, there's the gold NOT coming in because you're not selling the loot (you're salvaging it).
Then, you also have to think of the gold NOT coming in because you're using the mats when you could be selling them.

So yeah, mats have to be included in the cost. Just like lower gems have to be included in the cost of crafting a gem.


That being said, I don't even buy or sell on the AH at all, so I don't really care.

Edited by maka, 16 January 2013 - 08:16 PM.

[JKlimek]

^ yay, more microeconomics!

I should submit this thread to my teacher and see if I can get some extra credit

[OneTwoSC]

Zero(pS), on 16 January 2013 - 02:54 PM, said:

Ryude, on 16 January 2013 - 12:06 PM, said:

I think the problem is that because gear matters so much in diablo 3 compared to every other ARPG, any item you find/craft that doesn't have the exact properties you want with the desired values is useless. There are 2 solutions I see to this problem.

1. Remove dependency on items.
- This won't happen, RMAH. nuff said.
2. Improve useless properties and reduce value ranges.
- This might happen, but as usual Blizzard will do it so slowly that by the time they get it right it will be 2018.

That happened in Torchlight 2. I finished the game with items that required char lvl 14. It feels awful.

In a game that's all about hunting items, having them mean absolutely nothing and be 100% useless on combat outcome is just horrible.

People need to realize that not everyone will have BiS items with maxed stats and that's perfectly fine. It doesn't mean that everything else is useless, as a lot of ignorant players (who have 10 hours a day to farm) like to label them.

I don't know about TL2, but I think D2 is probably the best example of item-tiering done right. D3 is more like WoW where you replace stat stick 1 with stat stick 2. Not that it's terrible, but D2 allowed for things like SOJs (a nightmare-farmable item) being useful to end-game, and stuff like that.

But back on topic, maybe they should reduce the crafting cost? So it's more a hunt of demonic essences and less of making gold to pay for crafting?