52 replies to this topic

[Emberos]

Each patch, the game has gotten better.  It's not everything I want yet and probably won't ever be but it is consistently moving forward and the core combat/gameplay still keeps me coming back.

Jaetch, on 16 January 2013 - 09:15 AM, said:

Nerf Storm Armor radius.

Nerf Wave of Light damage.

Nerf Strafe damage.

Nerf Haunt damage.

Nerf Ground Stomp duration.

This is a good part of why pvp took so long / never really arrived.  That said, personally I would say it's a very bad direction to start nerfing pve skills for pvp balance.  

As to Path of Exile, we'll see if PoE is the savior some claim it to be -- I'll play it and I'm sure portions of it will feel like, "why didn't blizz do that".  Other parts will feel like, "man, blizz did this a ton better."  From what I've seen of it on youtube, the combat doesn't look very fluid but it may be fun to mess around with the skill tree and other systems.  Whatever the case, I'm fully confident that Blizzard is/has been watching and will take the good parts that make sense and improve Diablo with them.  No, I'm not saying we will have a poe skill tree in D3 -- but I would not be surprised if they have people working on a map system to expand the D3 end game.  

Copying the copiers is something WoW did over many expansions -- whatever competitor popped up, they'd mine it for the good ideas or innovative systems that would fit within WoW and improve their game.  Over many iterations of failed competitors and new features put into WoW, this makes the wall to climb all that much higher for future competitors.  Pretty sure, you'll see much the same in D3 and personally I look forward to where D3 will get to over the year(s) as these improvements get implemented.

[Emberos]

From what I've heard from Kripparian (who arguably has more experience with this game than anyone outside of the developers), melee range is pretty much not workable in the high end content.  That seems like a flaw to me -- and a pretty big one at that.

http://www.youtube.c...1coHafKk#t=202s

Sounds like they are trying to fix it but yeah, don't put PoE on a pedestal as perfect.  It isn't -- it just has different flaws than D3.

Edited by Emberos, 16 January 2013 - 02:45 PM.

[IcepickD]

Zakumene, on 16 January 2013 - 01:39 PM, said:

IcepickD, on 16 January 2013 - 10:18 AM, said:

2)What have they done to the economy: nothing. First of all whatever you find now if it is not the best of the best, you would not be able to sell if you don't undercut the price for 40+%. The reason being new Account bound items, everyone will craft them, and being able to sell. This game is slowly but surely turning into one big giant AB game. What the hell, why don't they just remove the trading and done!

You realize when you price items you're finding items that HAVENT sold - so either the item is really good and should have sold - or its overpriced.  You can quickly determine if its worth buying and flip it  - otherwise you'll at least know the price your item wont sell for.

If you don't want trading you should consider a different game - like torch light.

First of all, having an AH doesn't mean that Items are being sold right away. Not once have I sold an item that was only a few hours till it expired. Second: I've been flipping items when D3 got out, but I stopped, I know what that is and how to determine the correct price of an item based on the current market situation.
Last I dont want a game without trading. The last sentence was sarcastic . My point was that the system they have is not a very good one. They are missing quite a few of the gold Dumps. ALSO: with this new patch they are going towards a game without trading, BOA items. This is my problem!
If I wanted to play an MMO with new content patch every few months I would play an MMO. This game is advertized as ARPG not MMO-ARPG. I do however realize that it is hard to keep the economy stable and fresh when you don't have the ladder system, but that doesn't mean that I like the changes, nor that they are good. They should have thought of that before game release, which I think was premature.

I'm not one of those haters, that will yell at everything, I still play the game, and I intend to that for years, I just want to be able to sell something that is good that I found, I guess the part of the problem is hyper production of good/mediocre items, and that the boundaries of what is good and mediocre is going to climb and climb. Since there is no real ITEM SINK!
They should allow some system like reroll of legendaries perhaps with gems as part of the price. Lets say something like 2 of a kind + gem = new Legendary with the pool of affixes found on those 2 and random reroll of values.

[bruteMax]

Rhye, on 16 January 2013 - 11:01 AM, said:

IcepickD, on 16 January 2013 - 10:18 AM, said:

This is for sure one of worst patches ever. Have you seen the PVP?
1)They have not balanced anything, this is something we could have gotten on release, not something that should take 8 months to develop!
2)What have they done to the economy: nothing. First of all whatever you find now if it is not the best of the best, you would not be able to sell if you don't undercut the price for 40+%. The reason being new Account bound items, everyone will craft them, and being able to sell. This game is slowly but surely turning into one big giant AB game. What the hell, why don't they just remove the trading and done!
3)3 Radiant gems + 20 mil for the next tier of gem. So 80m-140m depending on the type, for what another increment that means nothing. 90% of players dont even have all radiant gems
4)Where is the end game: new AB items. C'mon!

You claim they haven't done anything about the economy, yet you the go on to state something that will help the economy.. The gems are a huge gold sink and this will help lower the prices of top tier items.

You also say that you have to undercut the AH prices by 40% to sell. Well, if the AH prices needs to be undercut, then the REAL value of the item is 40% lower than on AH. Simple. You are undercutting inflated prices, so the AH prices aren't correct. Seems fine to me.

90% don't have radient gems? Pff, where do you get those stats? I'd say 10% don't have. Maybe. Also, why would the very best items (or gems in this case) be something everyone could get right away? It's nice to have something to strive for, isn't it?

But I agree with the PvP comment you make. This could have been out on launch. The one hitting first, wins. Oh well. Diablo will always be a PvE/PvM game to me

It would be better if the exponential increase in price for the new gem tier came with more than a linear increase in benefit.  They are gold sinks, but given that Emeralds remain the only useful gem type in game, it isn't as much of a gold sink as it could be.  Very very few people will make more than one or two marquise emeralds, and I highly doubt many barbs will be sinking a few hundred million gold into a handful of marquise rubies for a pittance of a dps gain.

It's better than nothing, but it's frustrating that Blizzard doesn't make more of an effort to fix elements of the game when they do release a patch.  Dropping the cost of crafting existing recipes would be nice, for example.  This would probably go farther at serving as a gold sink than marquise gems, as rares would be salvaged instead of sold and the mats used for crafting (1handers mainly i suppose).

Edited by bruteMax, 16 January 2013 - 03:49 PM.

[pylorih]

D2 pvp wasn't deep and it wasn't "competitive". Why is it that you all couldn't see that to begin with?

If you want deep pvp, you need to consider going back to WoW.

Edited by pylorih, 16 January 2013 - 04:20 PM.

[TehAdi]

pylorih, on 16 January 2013 - 04:01 PM, said:

D2 pvp wasn't deep and it wasn't "competitive". Why is it that you all couldn't see that to begin with?

If you want deep pvp, you need to consider going back to WoW.

I've never expected anything more thant this from PvP. Cmon Blizz said it will be simple and unbalanced.
But I expected a lot more from Blizz in case of modyfing the core of the game (aka itemization because character progression doesn't exist here anyway) and it seems that they still don't have any idea about how to improve the game.

[DesmondTiny]

I love it so far! Dueling is really fun!

[Analogkid]

It's not about having to give 80 million (your words) for an upgraded gem.  But it is an OPTION.

Give me more options.  That's what everyone wants, right?

[TehAdi]

Analogkid, on 16 January 2013 - 05:40 PM, said:

Give me more options.  That's what everyone wants, right?

Well... i don't think we need more options to spend money.
We (me at least) would rather to have more options to have fun.

[Litheum]

Emberos, on 16 January 2013 - 02:40 PM, said:

From what I've heard from Kripparian (who arguably has more experience with this game than anyone outside of the developers), melee range is pretty much not workable in the high end content.  That seems like a flaw to me -- and a pretty big one at that.

http://www.youtube.c...1coHafKk#t=202s

Sounds like they are trying to fix it but yeah, don't put PoE on a pedestal as perfect.  It isn't -- it just has different flaws than D3.

Except.....POE is not even in open beta yet? and at least 3-6 months from an official launch.......
Not really a fair comparison at all.

[overneathe]

Stop talking about PoE. There's a forum for that. Continue talking about 1.0.7.

[Zakumene]

IcepickD, on 16 January 2013 - 02:41 PM, said:

Zakumene, on 16 January 2013 - 01:39 PM, said:

IcepickD, on 16 January 2013 - 10:18 AM, said:

2)What have they done to the economy: nothing. First of all whatever you find now if it is not the best of the best, you would not be able to sell if you don't undercut the price for 40+%. The reason being new Account bound items, everyone will craft them, and being able to sell. This game is slowly but surely turning into one big giant AB game. What the hell, why don't they just remove the trading and done!

You realize when you price items you're finding items that HAVENT sold - so either the item is really good and should have sold - or its overpriced.  You can quickly determine if its worth buying and flip it  - otherwise you'll at least know the price your item wont sell for.

If you don't want trading you should consider a different game - like torch light.

First of all, having an AH doesn't mean that Items are being sold right away. Not once have I sold an item that was only a few hours till it expired. Second: I've been flipping items when D3 got out, but I stopped, I know what that is and how to determine the correct price of an item based on the current market situation.
Last I dont want a game without trading. The last sentence was sarcastic . My point was that the system they have is not a very good one. They are missing quite a few of the gold Dumps. ALSO: with this new patch they are going towards a game without trading, BOA items. This is my problem!
If I wanted to play an MMO with new content patch every few months I would play an MMO. This game is advertized as ARPG not MMO-ARPG. I do however realize that it is hard to keep the economy stable and fresh when you don't have the ladder system, but that doesn't mean that I like the changes, nor that they are good. They should have thought of that before game release, which I think was premature.

I'm not one of those haters, that will yell at everything, I still play the game, and I intend to that for years, I just want to be able to sell something that is good that I found, I guess the part of the problem is hyper production of good/mediocre items, and that the boundaries of what is good and mediocre is going to climb and climb. Since there is no real ITEM SINK!
They should allow some system like reroll of legendaries perhaps with gems as part of the price. Lets say something like 2 of a kind + gem = new Legendary with the pool of affixes found on those 2 and random reroll of values.

Whether you're farming for mats to craft BOA gear or you're farming for drops, or farming for exp - the method is the same.  You're in the game slaying monsters.  The REASON you're doing it doesnt affect the drops - they will still find gear and post it on the AH if they want to sell it.  Maybe there will be fewer buyers of gear because more people are getting legitimate upgrades through crafting than luck - but on the whole more people will be killing monsters than if they didn't add this feature.

[Litheum]

overneathe, on 16 January 2013 - 07:10 PM, said:

Stop talking about PoE. There's a forum for that. Continue talking about 1.0.7.

LOL. We can't mention D3s direct competitor?

That's just silly. You have mentioned other games and developers yourself in several threads, when it is used to defend and support Blizzard. I understand where you're coming from and why you want to keep other games out of the forums, but the fact is they are very relevant to the discussion for a variety of reasons.

A lot of these other games are doing things we would like to see in D3, or would fix problems in D3, or show parallels to what we are experiencing in D3. I also see people use TL2 and POE as examples to defend Blizzard (for example bad talking TL2s loot, or POEs confusing talent tree) and never seen a mod tell them to stop. I avoid comparing the two myself, but it's completely reasonable to draw from other ARPGs when discussing Diablo games......

Edited by Litheum, 16 January 2013 - 08:29 PM.

[overneathe]

When it's constructive it's left up. Some posts that are now gone brought nothing into the topic but saying D3 is bad and PoE is much better. Those are the posts I have in mind.

[Emberos]

overneathe, on 16 January 2013 - 08:45 PM, said:

Some posts that are now gone brought nothing into the topic but saying D3 is bad and PoE is much better.

It was one of those deleted posts that I responded to saying the game was perfect that you quoted Litheum.  I am with Overneathe on this one when the topic is about 1.0.7 let's keep it that way.  However, as it relates to patches (this one and future), I will say again that I have no doubt that, in typical Blizz fashion, we will see some of the better innovations/mechanics out of TL2/PoE/etc. that would make sense and fit within the context of D3 work their way into later patches and provide us with a better game.  In fact, I think the competition is great because it pushes each company to do better and advances the genre.  Let's just not put one on a pedestal and the other in the gutter.

[AsHeavenIsWide]

5M to unsock a gem seems a little too much to me

Yes if you can afford the gem you can unsock it but if i find a drop thats an upgrade and if its a chest that could be 15m.

[Litheum]

Emberos, on 16 January 2013 - 09:00 PM, said:

overneathe, on 16 January 2013 - 08:45 PM, said:

Some posts that are now gone brought nothing into the topic but saying D3 is bad and PoE is much better.

It was one of those deleted posts that I responded to saying the game was perfect that you quoted Litheum.  I am with Overneathe on this one when the topic is about 1.0.7 let's keep it that way.  However, as it relates to patches (this one and future), I will say again that I have no doubt that, in typical Blizz fashion, we will see some of the better innovations/mechanics out of TL2/PoE/etc. that would make sense and fit within the context of D3 work their way into later patches and provide us with a better game.  In fact, I think the competition is great because it pushes each company to do better and advances the genre.  Let's just not put one on a pedestal and the other in the gutter.

Well, I hope you are right. But to me it almost seems like the D3 team is deliberately trying to avoid using anything from other games. Their seems to be some really obvious ideas those games are using that D3 could use in some form (endless dungeuns springs to mind) but Blizzard actively avoids using those ideas, or even commenting on them.

It's just a feeling, of course, and maybe I am wrong, but it really seems like all the changes Wilson and his crew are making are pointedly different than what other games have done successfully. (Not to dredge up muddy water, but the comments their team made on Facebook further cause me to feel this way). I just get this sense like they are trying to prove that they can reinvent the genre, and want so badly to make D3 stand alone. But it's an ARPG, the King of all ARPGs, they don't need to come up with a new genre, just make D3 the best of them all.

I completely agree about Blizzard and WOW, they absolutely take from other games to improve WOW (achievements during the achievement boon, Zone-wide PVP at the launch of  WAR, a lot of their quest redesign and phasing tech takes from GW1 quest instancing, etc etc)
Those games are widely known as WOW-clones, so WOW took their ideas and did them better.

I wish D3 would do the same, TL1, TL2, POE.....they are Diablo-clones, and I know Blizzard can do it better. But they really seem to be trying to redefine the genre, when they should be just showing everyone else how to do it right.

EDIT: Although it's completely irrelevent, I got selected for a POE beta key yesterday
Had to tell someone.......Downloading it now. Would of been nice to have it earlier than 7 days before open beta

Edited by Litheum, 16 January 2013 - 10:34 PM.

[Emberos]

It's not impossible I'm being too optimistic based on past track record with what they did with WoW.  From what you typed, I can see we both have the same feeling that what Blizz has been very good at in the past is mining the competition for good features and then putting a polish on those features that the smaller developers didn't have the budget or capability to pull off.  I will agree that D3 has not been handled as cleanly during the development cycle and even after game launch in this respect.  

That said, I am at least seeing the game get iteratively better with each patch so I continue to be hopeful that we start to see large shifts over time when all those patches and improvements are taking in their totality.  It has been a bit slow going and I completely get why some people are taking a break and/or just throwing in the towel.  I'm still holding out hope it'll get there - it's not impossible it will take an expansion before we see some of the larger innovations from competitors.  Time will tell.

[Boss_Hogg]

I don't have an opinion, becasue 1.07 isn't out yet...

[Litheum]

Emberos, on 16 January 2013 - 10:36 PM, said:

It's not impossible I'm being too optimistic based on past track record with what they did with WoW.  From what you typed, I can see we both have the same feeling that what Blizz has been very good at in the past is mining the competition for good features and then putting a polish on those features that the smaller developers didn't have the budget or capability to pull off.  I will agree that D3 has not been handled as cleanly during the development cycle and even after game launch in this respect.  

That said, I am at least seeing the game get iteratively better with each patch so I continue to be hopeful that we start to see large shifts over time when all those patches and improvements are taking in their totality.  It has been a bit slow going and I completely get why some people are taking a break and/or just throwing in the towel.  I'm still holding out hope it'll get there - it's not impossible it will take an expansion before we see some of the larger innovations from competitors.  Time will tell.

Trust me, if I didnt think Blizz would eventually get it right, I wouldnt be on these forums.
So yah, I agree with you. I am just a little more let down and a lot more frustrated with the changes than others.

But as you said, it gives me time to try other games. Which I am doing. I havent uninstalled the game, or sold any gear off. One day I will come back, just not for 1.0.7.