35 replies to this topic

[Loroese]

TheDemokin, on 15 January 2013 - 05:43 AM, said:

Loroese, on 15 January 2013 - 04:03 AM, said:

Datamined info is up on the front page and there's no mention of anything related to Archon or CMWW builds. Not even mention of mob kills from group working with Archon timer.

Yea, disappointing, but that's only the first iteration of the PTR, hell knows what else is going to change in the next couple of months of the PTR lol.

Increased damage of arcane orb... how's that's going to help anyone?

Out of curiosity, with blizzard damage, say it does 200% over 5 seconds, equipping an item that increases blizzard duration by 3 seconds - what happens to the blizzard damage? 200% over 8 seconds? Or does it increase at the rate of 200/5=40%?

I assume it keeps the damage per tic the same and just increases the duration, so if it is normally 200% over 5s, it'll do 200% for the first 5s, then 40% per second after, for the remainder of the duration. If you look at the rune that increases the duration, I expect it to work the same.

Edited by Loroese, 15 January 2013 - 05:59 AM.

[Ultragrisen]

I use 3 specs, but essentially you are correct at high mp(8-10) it will get VERY hard not playing CMWW build.

I do cmww when doing ubers.
i do archon build up to Mp3
i do Spectral blade with explosive blast MP4-6 (spectral blade with around 750 life on hits will keep you up very good with correct runes)

[Kring]

Just for your notice, playing monk won´t do you any better. Tempest Rush for farming exp, and cyclone build for higher mps - all you do is to press two buttons.
Can´t imagine anyone rolling a monk for the purpose of having fun.

[spiritvs]

Well yeah.. That's why im still sticking to my wizard atm.
Building up more defensive stats atm!
Hopefully will help me on higher mp and on pvp

[redcinder]

Shinna1989, on 14 January 2013 - 10:45 PM, said:

redcinder, on 14 January 2013 - 02:51 PM, said:

Get a keyboard or gamepad that you can make a spam macro on each key that you need to press. I created a macro when I hold down 1, 2, 3 or 4 it presses them 7 or 8 times per second at 1 second intervals so all i need to do is hold them down instead of spamming the fuck out of them. It got boring for me then I did this and theres not effort required and my hand doesnt ache after a few hours of doing it And it also lengthens the life of said product lol.

I wouldnt recommand ANY sort of macros. Its still bannable and yes poeple got banned for using macros/scritps. In some cases even for using inbuild mouse/keyboard software functions.

EDIT: Just 2 links to prove my point.

Banned for using "razor" macros: http://us.battle.net...opic/7166796714
Bluepost in regards of macro using: http://us.battle.net...c/5795159954#11

This guy that used the razor macro used 1 button to spam 1 2 3 and 4. Im using 4 different keys for 1 2 3 and 4 and the are spammed about 5 times per second which is believable and undetectable.

This was his macro and as you can see the buttons loop with a .005 sec delay thats 200 key presses per second 50 each per second which ofcourse is easy as fuck to detect.

My macro loops itself like 1 (.005 delay) 2 (.005 delay) 3(.005 delay) ect, it doesnt result in multiple key presses.

Like I said mine is 5 - 7 each per second with 4 buttons which is a REAL input value for the average person imo. And undetectable.

Edited by redcinder, 17 January 2013 - 11:41 AM.

[Bagstone]

Many people miss the point what this game is about: gearing up for higher challenges. Initially, Blizzard thought that all of Inferno would be super hard and require players to gear up for months. Turned out, you can roflstomp through Inferno after a few hours of gameplay and equipping your character for less than a million on the AH.

Then monster power was introduced, and MP10 was thought to be the ultimate challenge for people with high gear, both offensive and defensive. Turns out, the wizard class has a glitch where you can do MP10 even for less than a million gold, with CMWW spec. In my personal opinion, they should just nerf CMWW, but as the patch notes show, it's not what is gonna happen, they rather try to buff all other stuff. Sigh.

Well, anyways; like someone said, there are thousands of builds (actually, there are billions of possible builds if you calculate all combinations). Most of them will give you a hard time on MP10, but it's definitely *possible* to do MP10 with builds other than CMWW. It might just be a bit harder or require better gear.

[JKlimek]

CMWW is literally the only reason Wizards are included in MP10 uber groups.

PS, anyone who says that you can gear CMWW for less than a million obviously hasn't tried to do it.  Just like everything else, you CAN do it for under a mil, but not well.  My source alone costs upwards of 50M and that's a cheap one.

Doing CM at the 2.00001 breakpoint isn't doing CM ubers at mp10
Doing CM with 40k dps isn't doing CM ubers at mp10

Edited by JKlimek, 17 January 2013 - 04:40 PM.

[Bagstone]

JKlimek, on 17 January 2013 - 04:34 PM, said:

PS, anyone who says that you can gear CMWW for less than a million obviously hasn't tried to do it.

There are many guides (both written and on Youtube) about gearing up CMWW with low budget. I remember one CMWW MP10 guide for 1 million gold budget a while ago. Sure, it wasn't perfect, but it somewhat works.

Btw, with a 50m source you're way out of the low budget discussion and seem to be unable to think in smaller numbers. CMWW works on MP10 due to its skill mechanics, not because your gear is so awesome. With awesome gear you can run any spec on MP10, as Jaetch showed (before deciding to get his gear level down to one that is more comparable to us mortals' gear again ;-)).

[Jaetch]

Bagstone, on 17 January 2013 - 05:15 PM, said:

With awesome gear you can run any spec on MP10, as Jaetch showed (before deciding to get his gear level down to one that is more comparable to us mortals' gear again ;-)).

But now I'm ranked #1 in the U.S. for wizard 1v1 PvP score

OT: Again and again, CM/WW is just proven to be the most "effective" (not always "efficient," i.e. 1 million gold budget CM/WW builds) way for wizards to handle high MP levels. At all gear levels, some aspect of CM will be required to make builds work on high MPs. Even if I run Archon on MP10, I will need CM to remove the cooldown because there is just no way to consistently make Archon last 2 minutes at a time.

Edited by Jaetch, 17 January 2013 - 05:36 PM.

[maka]

CM is mandatory. Period.

[JKlimek]

Bagstone, on 17 January 2013 - 05:15 PM, said:

There are many guides (both written and on Youtube) about gearing up CMWW with low budget. I remember one CMWW MP10 guide for 1 million gold budget a while ago. Sure, it wasn't perfect, but it somewhat works.

Btw, with a 50m source you're way out of the low budget discussion and seem to be unable to think in smaller numbers. CMWW works on MP10 due to its skill mechanics, not because your gear is so awesome. With awesome gear you can run any spec on MP10, as Jaetch showed (before deciding to get his gear level down to one that is more comparable to us mortals' gear again ;-)).

I'm sure you just *sound* like a jerk...

Obviously CM "works" under 1m.  Every build "works" without dedicated equipment.  Getting to 18 Apoc, 40+crit, 2.8-3 AS, all while maintaining EHP and DPS is NOT CHEAP.  It's not a "disability to think in small numbers" it's a request for people to stop calling CMWW a loser Wiz build for people who don't have money and/or ability to do a "real" build.  The exact quote I was responding to was "Turns out, the wizard class has a glitch where you can do MP10 even for less than a million gold" which isn't even close to true unless you're running with 3 300k+ dps tanks that don't mind that you can't stunlock Mag or survive a hit from any of the ubers, or stand in ghom's stank, etc, much less doing MP10 Ubers solo.

[Bagstone]

Okay, let's not derail this thread by getting in a personal fight I'm not even interested in. I think the core of our posts are about the same - it's possible to survive on MP10 thanks to CMWW mechanics (that's what I said) and it might be possible to kill things on MP10 with these low budget builds (that's what has been shown) but it takes so long, like literally ages, such that it can't really be called a "working solution", let alone being used to farm MP10 (that's what you say and I totally agree).

The one and only thing that I would've liked to be seen is a nerf of one of the 4 things you need for CMWW (DS for survivability, FN for stunlock, CM for resetting the timers, IAS with a working spell for proccing CM so often). Sure, there would be a shitstorm on Blizzard, but right now the low budget players and people with an equipment worth around a few dozens million gold (yes, these people exist) will force any wizard in their group to go CMWW for high MP and/or ubers because it's such an easy mode button and their only realistic chance on getting stuff on these levels done. Therefore, in my opinion, CMWW as of now is nothing but a huge help for bypassing the gear hunt that Diablo has ever been about in the first place.

Which brings us back to the thread's title - yeah, CMWW is the only way to do high MPs unless you have godly gear. If you have godly gear and want to kill things in less than a few hours, CM (not necessarily CMWW, but CM) is mandatory - like Jaetch and maka said. However, "is CMWW the only way to high MP" (topic)? Maybe, but maybe you can also get your EHP to levels where you don't mind to be hit by enemies and you're able to kill them with Blizzard (especially once it's buffed after the patch), Disintegrate, or some similar spell that does not rely on CM procs. It will probably never be as efficient as CM(WW), but it might work once you have MP10 endgame gear.

[Malekhit87]

Well diablo was always about farming in the most efficient way and by no means CMww wizard that is low budget can do it efficiently at mp7-10 yes they can tank and kill elites after one hour but does he do it efficiently no....

On the other side my wiz cost me around 250 M and still doing mp1 in archon is waaaayy better then running mp8 upwards. because my survivality and dmg are lacking and this gear was build for quarter bilion gold...

[JKlimek]

Good post Bagstone

Malekhit87, on 17 January 2013 - 08:28 PM, said:

Well diablo was always about farming in the most efficient way and by no means CMww wizard that is low budget can do it efficiently at mp7-10 yes they can tank and kill elites after one hour but does he do it efficiently no....

On the other side my wiz cost me around 250 M and still doing mp1 in archon is waaaayy better then running mp8 upwards. because my survivality and dmg are lacking and this gear was build for quarter bilion gold...

I think the whole point of people who play cmww is to cheat into a higher mp than you could normally handle. While you're right that it's more efficient to farm on lower mps, it's probably not more efficient to farm keys or do uber fights on lower mps.  Personally I can fly through mp2-3 solo, but I can't handle mp8-10 solo with archon.  I have several friends and family members that are newer to the game and don't have the dps/ehp to handle mp7 but I can "cheat" them into mp7 with cmww.  I've taken down ubers at mp9 with myself a 3.01 AS 100k dps CMWW with three characters who had an average dps of 90k.  I think that's the problem with it and I agree with Bagstone's rather simple, elegant solution... make the entry cost higher.

The proliferation of CMWW is probably why this thread was created in the first place and I feel like it really signifies the exact problem... I really don't think it's possible to do high mp solo with wizard unless you are godly equipped.

Edited by JKlimek, 17 January 2013 - 09:42 PM.

[Shinna1989]

Quote

Which brings us back to the thread's title - yeah, CMWW is the only way to do high MPs unless you have godly gear. If you have godly gear and want to kill things in less than a few hours,

There are only 2(!) classes in game that can do mp7+ on a low/mid budget gear level...CM/WW and barbs...Anything else needs a decent amount of gold...And even if you "cheat" people into higher mp they die all the time either on trash or elites since they lack stats anyways. So you might let em do ubers but anything else is still a pain in the ass for low budget chars no matter if a cm freeze stuff or not.

[RasAlgethi24]

You certainly can gear a mp10 cm build for relatively cheap.  I made mine (3aps with stretch time,127k stat sheet dps, able to do mp10 uber runs) for about 150 to 200 mil.  Initially I built it for under 100mil, only reason for the increase in cost was for higher dps.

Edited by RasAlgethi24, 18 January 2013 - 04:39 AM.