46 replies to this topic

[CherubDown]

Blizzard says Team Deathmatch doesn't work because it gets old fast. For the sake of argument, let's assume that's true.

What ideas do you have for PvP that would replace this system?

Note: This is not a thread to argue about the news from yesterday - this thread is about solutions.

[Azidonis]

If the players need to inform Blizzard how to create PvP for their game, then the players should be getting paid for it, and the design team should lose its job, in my opinion.

[zippez]

Azidonis, on 28 December 2012 - 08:15 PM, said:

If the players need to inform Blizzard how to create PvP for their game, then the players should be getting paid for it, and the design team should lose its job, in my opinion.

Yeah,. because there is nothing worse than a company that uses customer feedback.  Those bastards.

I wonder where SC2 balance would be if they would only listnen to player feedback........

[Bleu42]

Whelp ignoring the very first QQ / rant / flame post already put in this thread, I really like this idea, of coming up with ideas =P

There could be a lot of different options, some that might not even be labeled 'pvp'.

1. GOBLIN HUNT! Two teams battle to kill a high HP goblin, while fighting each other. The team that does the most damage to the goblin wins. The goblin could pop a shield every 10 seconds that lasts for a couple seconds to help interrupt stacked teams (think archon wiz's). The winning team gets all the cool loot from the goblin, and you could have a death count / kill count at the end as well.

2. Uber ubers! Race side by side another team (split the room in half, no interference) as you and your team battle wave after wave of monsters / bosses. A resplendent chest awaits the team that outlives the other team, and you could increase the MF on the chest for each wave completed.

I'l think of more later =D

[dao72785]

a solution... hmm... well the people that played their tdm pvp already told them it was good enough and to release it... ive seen the footage from blizzcon of the tdm pvp and it looks fun as hell to me... i really dont feel like their needs to be a solution i could care less if they released it and it was buggy or "got old fast" its PVP for christ sakes! thats all i want! the solution is release some kind of form of pvp fast and if we need to work out the bugs then who cares atleast we can have fun now... hell release it on PTR and let the people decide if they really cared about customer/community feed back!

THIS IS WHAT THEY HAVE PTR FOR!!!!!

Edited by dao72785, 28 December 2012 - 09:37 PM.

[zeroRooter]

What the hell does it take to implement a hostile based dueling system like we had in diablo 2 while they get their ideas together for another system? I could probably solo the entire job in 1 weeks time ffs

[Bleu42]

dao72785, on 28 December 2012 - 09:30 PM, said:

a solution... hmm... well the people that played their tdm pvp already told them it was good enough and to release it... ive seen the footage from blizzcon of the tdm pvp and it looks fun as hell to me... i really dont feel like their needs to be a solution i could care less if they released it and it was buggy or "got old fast" its PVP for christ sakes! thats all i want! the solution is release some kind of form of pvp fast and if we need to work out the bugs then who cares atleast we can have fun now... hell release it on PTR and let the people decide if they really cared about customer/community feed back!

THIS IS WHAT THEY HAVE PTR FOR!!!!!

Ok A; That's a terrible business model. Releasing products and then fixing later has been proven time and time again by MANY different game companies to be completely ass backwards, and the worst way to release anything.

B; They don't need PTR for diablo, they have plenty of QA testers and in house testers.

C; You're kind of being a baby.

D; This isn't what this thread is for. Go to the other threads to yell if you'd like.

zeroRooter, on 28 December 2012 - 09:30 PM, said:

What the hell does it take to implement a hostile based dueling system like we had in diablo 2 while they get their ideas together for another system? I could probably solo the entire job in 1 weeks time ffs

Ok there's no way you could write the code for it in one week, just sayin. Also, we ARE getting dueling, if you had read the pvp blog. We are getting it in a patch.

[dao72785]

ok sorry bleu42 for putting in my 2 cents looks like your the one with all the logical ideas here ill just sit in the corner and talk to myself

i guess the real solution here would be to only listen to bleu42 hes the cool guy

Edited by dao72785, 28 December 2012 - 10:09 PM.

[Furycrab]

CherubDown, on 28 December 2012 - 08:04 PM, said:

Blizzard says Team Deathmatch doesn't work because it gets old fast. For the sake of argument, let's assume that's true.

What ideas do you have for PvP that would replace this system?

Note: This is not a thread to argue about the news from yesterday - this thread is about solutions.

It would get old fast because it wouldn't be balanced and thus is really hard to give appropriate rewards. Like how do you balance a game where say a DH can go from 10k dps fresh 60 to 3mil+. You start needing to make crazy rules for everything, need to normalize everything, make special gear, balance special skills.., At some point you are just making a totally different game.

At some point, it's better to justify putting said resources into another game and have the current team work on more Diablo 3 content.

Personally I don't see an easy solution that would both not require hundreds if not thousands of man hours tweaking and tuning AND be at a quality level that a Blizzard stamp (not saying all Blizzard games are perfect, but they haven't stamped a truly terrible game yet)

However I also don't see any reasonable way to let it go at this point because they stuck to the concept for so damn long. I just wish they would bite the bullet and say pvp TDM isn't coming if 1.1 and can go on to announcing really cool stuff.... MP and Ubers were decently cool, want so much more.

[overneathe]

What I can say is that dueling and the feedback that will come through it will help Blizz tremendously is any future PvP endeavors. So once 1.0.7 comes out I'm sure they'll start getting a much larger picture of how balanced characters, skills, runes and items are and go from there.

[Vooodu]

CherubDown, on 28 December 2012 - 08:04 PM, said:

Blizzard says Team Deathmatch doesn't work because it gets old fast. For the sake of argument, let's assume that's true.

What ideas do you have for PvP that would replace this system?

Note: This is not a thread to argue about the news from yesterday - this thread is about solutions.

At this point the only true solution would be to let players actually test out what blizzard had or hire someone who can actually get the job done.


As far as ideas go.. There have neem a ton of great posts concerning ideas/gimmicks for pvp on Diablo3.com they get ignored on a constant basis.

IF theres no TDM then give use the arena maps.  Make it 8 players.  And let us make it either public or private.  Make a safe area with a stash and let use duel. Remove crit damage and nerf damage dealt by 1/4  ...

[Furycrab]

overneathe, on 29 December 2012 - 09:27 AM, said:

What I can say is that dueling and the feedback that will come through it will help Blizz tremendously is any future PvP endeavors. So once 1.0.7 comes out I'm sure they'll start getting a much larger picture of how balanced characters, skills, runes and items are and go from there.

More likely IMO dueling will bring more players to see the actual size of the problem. Which is very good... but likely not what people want.

[Bleu42]

dao72785, on 28 December 2012 - 10:03 PM, said:

ok sorry bleu42 for putting in my 2 cents looks like your the one with all the logical ideas here ill just sit in the corner and talk to myself

i guess the real solution here would be to only listen to bleu42 hes the cool guy

Well first you came in here whining and screaming, so instead of getting butthurt you COULD try adding to the thread. Or sit in a corner if you really want, doesn't matter.

[dao72785]

Bleu42, on 29 December 2012 - 08:11 PM, said:

Well first you came in here whining and screaming, so instead of getting butthurt you COULD try adding to the thread. Or sit in a corner if you really want, doesn't matter.

whining and screaming? MY SOLUTION IS PTR AND LETTING THE COMMUNITY BUILD PVP. CLEARLY this is the only LOGICAL OPTION. if BLIZZARD doesnt know what the #$%!@ they are DOING let us decide and build on it.

was that enough QQ'ing and SCREAMING now?

Edited by dao72785, 29 December 2012 - 10:05 PM.

[overneathe]

dao72785, on 29 December 2012 - 10:04 PM, said:

Bleu42, on 29 December 2012 - 08:11 PM, said:

Well first you came in here whining and screaming, so instead of getting butthurt you COULD try adding to the thread. Or sit in a corner if you really want, doesn't matter.

whining and screaming? MY SOLUTION IS PTR AND LETTING THE COMMUNITY BUILD PVP. CLEARLY this is the only LOGICAL OPTION. if BLIZZARD doesnt know what the #$%!@ they are DOING let us decide and build on it.

was that enough QQ'ing and SCREAMING now?

It seems that it would bring you a tremendous amount of happiness if you just go out there, build a company, make a game and open a huge beta followed by months of PTR tests. Doesn't matter that almost no one does that in the game development world. There might be consequences to having so much testing. I don't know. I won't pretend I know much about it... but then... wouldn't all features just become boring if they're on a free-to-try PTR for months on end and then when they get released developers would _then_ start out to conceptualize new ideas since for the last few months they've been testing something else, closely following what the community says and balancing/redeveloping said features.

I don't know. Jay says "we have internal testers and they say this is boring on the long run". I suspect these people are gamers. I've been a tester myself and I know what it's all about. I've been super bored with some features and the company I worked for might've decided "yeah, it's fucking boring for us as well" and scrapped it.

I'm quite honest when I say - go. Go out into the world and tell investors "I'll test features for months with a few million players until all of them are happy with it". I completely and truly wish you the best of luck. If you succeed you'll be an awesome person. I'm really not sarcastic here. Go do it. Be the change you want to see. Go on kickstarter and try it. I'll be curiously following your progress.

I suspect though, that your community will absolutely always be divided. It's just a hunch (might be sarcastic here). I might've observed over the 2 decades I've played games that the community is never in the same boat, but is instead on different boats, in different seas, on different planets. But you go ahead and try to satisfy all of them.

[dao72785]

@overneathe

yes the idea of releasing an entire video game on a community idea based system for months on end would be time and money consuming but in the end what if you end up releasing the best game ever?

of course the community will never be satisfied i wished every game i ever loved to play would have been updated with new content/features on a monthly bases or something like that but i know it takes a lot of work/money for them to do so. but i still think putting the pvp on the ptr and building it from their would be the best option right now because it wont be the "testers" deciding what the MAJORITY wants!

i really dont understand how this could be a bad idea....

[overneathe]

And what if the majority wanted Diablo 3 to be exactly what it is right now? Just speculating. What would you do then?

[dao72785]

overneathe, on 30 December 2012 - 01:47 AM, said:

And what if the majority wanted Diablo 3 to be exactly what it is right now? Just speculating. What would you do then?

honestly id probably quit if pvp wasnt released

[overneathe]

dao72785, on 30 December 2012 - 01:54 AM, said:

overneathe, on 30 December 2012 - 01:47 AM, said:

And what if the majority wanted Diablo 3 to be exactly what it is right now? Just speculating. What would you do then?

honestly id probably quit if pvp wasnt released

Seems you didn't understand my question. If you made your own company and you made Diablo 3 anew and the major part of the community actually liked it as it is right now... would you leave it as it is?

[dao72785]

overneathe, on 30 December 2012 - 02:21 AM, said:

Seems you didn't understand my question. If you made your own company and you made Diablo 3 anew and the major part of the community actually liked it as it is right now... would you leave it as it is?

i would personally make it even better and profit even more money