184 replies to this topic

[overneathe]

@Voix
I'm putting down the pitchfork as soon as people stop taking their trash in the Diablo 3 bucket. I know the game has big problems. You are not helping it (the hater ones). So move along and we're both happy.

[Vooodu]

overneathe, on 31 December 2012 - 09:50 AM, said:

@Voix
I'm putting down the pitchfork as soon as people stop taking their trash in the Diablo 3 bucket. I know the game has big problems. You are not helping it (the hater ones). So move along and we're both happy.

One pitch fork is no match for the unrelenting horde of misguided, broken hearted players which have been lied to from the start and disapointed on a constant basis.

POE open beta can't come fast enough.

Edited by Vooodu, 31 December 2012 - 05:06 PM.

[Indimix]

baron01, on 31 December 2012 - 09:36 AM, said:

maka, on 30 December 2012 - 09:30 PM, said:

It might be 'common', but it certainly isn't 'normal'. And the only reason that " the "hardcore old school players" go around forums complaining it didn't live up to expectations after spending 500+ hours on it", as you say, is because, well, the game didn't live up to the expectations of (some) veterans of the series. I mean, you yourself said it, 'casuals' are the ones mostly playing this game. More often than not, this means people that haven't played the previous games. Are you telling me this fact means nothing to you?

First of all, your quoting style in your original post and the way you answer points of other posters is extremely obnoxious. You should know, if you traffic well moderated and mature discussion forums, that making a wall-of-text post broken down by a huge pieces of quoted text guarantees you very little chance anybody will be bothered to read it and even less will try to reply to your post.

I pick just one of your points but it is clear through the rest of your arguments that you are exactly that "hardcore, old school player" you are referring to in this piece of text.
The reason why sequels, especially those coming out after long delay, are not often welcomed with cheers and joy is that the veterans who played previous games round and round for very long time have unrealistic and biased expectations. These people also often feel they are entitled to a voice on how the game should be developed. Finally, most of the people also feel they know the game franchise much better than "new" development team--read as the team that did not developed the original piece.
I also find it quite interesting that your characters listed under your Battle.net tag have obviously been played for very little time while you imply that you played Diablo 1 and 2 for very long time.By implication this means you played D1 and D2 for a long time while those games were imbalanced, buggy and lacked much of end-game content but you do not give Diablo 3 the same benefit after only 7 months of existence.

Let alone Diablo 1 or 2, let alone any kind of comparisons.

The game is still flawed as hell.

What you are talking about, is a logical fallacy, that's all.

[BornBadd]

Thanks overneath!!! Finally someone willing to put a stop to all the negativity. I don't mind an honest argument, but most of the trash that's been posted these past few days is just that ... trash. PVP is NOT & never was the main focus of Diablo 3 ... just a SMALL part. Grow up & enjoy the game or move on & find another one you can bitch about.

[Vooodu]

BornBadd, on 31 December 2012 - 04:38 PM, said:

Thanks overneath!!! Finally someone willing to put a stop to all the negativity. I don't mind an honest argument, but most of the trash that's been posted these past few days is just that ... trash. PVP is NOT & never was the main focus of Diablo 3 ... just a SMALL part. Grow up & enjoy the game or move on & find another one you can bitch about.

Funny, that you seem to think PVP is not a main focus of Diablo 3.  When PVP was actually a major selling point of D3.

Don't blame people for being upset.  Blame blizzard.

If i got out to eat at some fancy restaurant and order a 60 dollar four course meal and only get salad im gonna bitch till get the rest of what i ordered.  If some guy told me "GROW UP AND MOVE ON: id stick a fork in his eye...lol


When you preach about how big, great and awseome something will be and only deliver 1/4 of what you promised.  Expect the worse.

Edited by Vooodu, 31 December 2012 - 05:16 PM.

[Bagstone]

Vooodu, on 31 December 2012 - 05:14 PM, said:

BornBadd, on 31 December 2012 - 04:38 PM, said:

Thanks overneath!!! Finally someone willing to put a stop to all the negativity. I don't mind an honest argument, but most of the trash that's been posted these past few days is just that ... trash. PVP is NOT & never was the main focus of Diablo 3 ... just a SMALL part. Grow up & enjoy the game or move on & find another one you can bitch about.

Funny, that you seem to think PVP is not a main focus of Diablo 3.  When PVP was actually a major selling point of D3.

Don't blame people for being upset.  Blame blizzard.

If i got out to eat at some fancy restaurant and order a 60 dollar four course meal and only get salad im gonna bitch till get the rest of what i ordered.  If some guy told me "GROW UP AND MOVE ON: id stick a fork in his eye...lol


When you preach about how big, great and awseome something will be and only deliver 1/4 of what you promised.  Expect the worse.

Sigh... buying D3 because you want a PvP is like going into a new steak house in town because you want a fancy salad. Sure, the restaurant might have awesome salad, but it's usually not its main course. The rest of your post is the usual bitching. I think we can all agree to disagree that some people thought PvP was a major part of D3, maybe you misinterpreted some advertising, but by now everyone should've understood their misconception, and just like BornBadd said - move on.

Even though the Diablo theme was butchered story-wise in D3, it still doesn't really fit for PvP; it's humans against the evil, and not humans vs humans. Sorry for being old-fashioned, but I don't know why the hell people would think the Diablo series should be all about PvP. And since Blizzard made it absolutely clear that D3 will never ever be turned into esports, you should really move on.

Edited by Bagstone, 31 December 2012 - 05:25 PM.

[Indimix]

This may surprise you, but, it's not about PvP, it's about how Blizzard treats us as idiots. It could be PvP, or AH 2.0, or 200+ legendaries items, you name it.

For some, PvP is essential, not my case, but what pisses me off, is the way they lie to us, when the truth lies in money affairs.

[overneathe]

Vooodu, on 31 December 2012 - 03:30 PM, said:

POE open beta can't come fast enough.

This is one thing we can agree on.

[BornBadd]

Indimix, on 31 December 2012 - 05:50 PM, said:

This may surprise you, but, it's not about PvP, it's about how Blizzard treats us as idiots. It could be PvP, or AH 2.0, or 200+ legendaries items, you name it.

For some, PvP is essential, not my case, but what pisses me off, is the way they lie to us, when the truth lies in money affairs.

Sorry, but just laughing to myself at how all of you are ranting on about how this is all connected to money matters & that you don't like it. Do you think Blizzard is an NPO? It's a business & it's there to make money. To be honest, I played 1 & 2 and enjoyed them a lot. I bought D3 with only the point of enjoyment in mind & what would be different from the previous titles. Of course I'm not satisfied (who is?), BUT I got way more than my moneys' worth all considered & ... I ENJOY the game. If you ranters & haters can't enjoy the game (for whatever reason), then I say again move on & bitch somewhere else. CONSTRUCTIVE arguments are welcome, but to place your argument on the legs of Blizzard spending years developing the game, then improving it, & planning to add content ... for free is just plan (I hate to say it) stupid. Those millions of us happy with the game will continue to play & enjoy it along with the improvements planned. I hope all of you will join us accepting the faults & acknowledging the strong points, but mainly ENJOYING the game for many years to come.

Sorry! I wanted to add a bit more (or rather type a better response), but it's New Year's Eve where I am & a bit sloshed, so ... Happy New Year!!!

Edited by BornBadd, 31 December 2012 - 06:24 PM.

[louislees]

BornBadd, on 31 December 2012 - 06:20 PM, said:

Those millions of us happy with the game will continue to play & enjoy it

You actually think there's millions of players (non-bots) that still play this game??

[Indimix]

BornBadd, on 31 December 2012 - 06:20 PM, said:

Indimix, on 31 December 2012 - 05:50 PM, said:

This may surprise you, but, it's not about PvP, it's about how Blizzard treats us as idiots. It could be PvP, or AH 2.0, or 200+ legendaries items, you name it.

For some, PvP is essential, not my case, but what pisses me off, is the way they lie to us, when the truth lies in money affairs.

Sorry, but just laughing to myself at how all of you are ranting on about how this is all connected to money matters & that you don't like it. Do you think Blizzard is an NPO? It's a business & it's there to make money. To be honest, I played 1 & 2 and enjoyed them a lot. I bought D3 with only the point of enjoyment in mind & what would be different from the previous titles. Of course I'm not satisfied (who is?), BUT I got way more than my moneys' worth all considered & ... I ENJOY the game. If you ranters & haters can't enjoy the game (for whatever reason), then I say again move on & bitch somewhere else. CONSTRUCTIVE arguments are welcome, but to place your argument on the legs of Blizzard spending years developing the game, then improving it, & planning to add content ... for free is just plan (I hate to say it) stupid. Those millions of us happy with the game will continue to play & enjoy it along with the improvements planned. I hope all of you will join us accepting the faults & acknowledging the strong points, but mainly ENJOYING the game for many years to come.

Sorry! I wanted to add a bit more (or rather type a better response), but it's New Year's Eve where I am & a bit sloshed, so ... Happy New Year!!!

This may surprise you, but, you can make money and make an amazing game, at the same time.

However, if you want to set as rule number 1 to make the RMAH as profitable as possible, your gameplay experience will deteriorate beyond hope.

The real reason why they are doing this with PvP, lies in their need to maximize profit when players face each other in the battlefield. And of course, probably to place it in the expansion, if any.

[Boss_Hogg]

For all of you that are just so outraged by this blasphemy that you're going to quit, I have one question for you all: Can I have your gold?

Edited by Boss_Hogg, 31 December 2012 - 07:07 PM.

[Popnbake]

BornBadd, on 31 December 2012 - 04:38 PM, said:

Thanks overneath!!! Finally someone willing to put a stop to all the negativity. I don't mind an honest argument, but most of the trash that's been posted these past few days is just that ... trash. PVP is NOT & never was the main focus of Diablo 3 ... just a SMALL part. Grow up & enjoy the game or move on & find another one you can bitch about.

Bagstone, on 31 December 2012 - 05:24 PM, said:

Sigh... buying D3 because you want a PvP is like going into a new steak house in town because you want a fancy salad. Sure, the restaurant might have awesome salad, but it's usually not its main course. The rest of your post is the usual bitching. I think we can all agree to disagree that some people thought PvP was a major part of D3, maybe you misinterpreted some advertising, but by now everyone should've understood their misconception, and just like BornBadd said - move on.

Even though the Diablo theme was butchered story-wise in D3, it still doesn't really fit for PvP; it's humans against the evil, and not humans vs humans. Sorry for being old-fashioned, but I don't know why the hell people would think the Diablo series should be all about PvP. And since Blizzard made it absolutely clear that D3 will never ever be turned into esports, you should really move on.

Whether or not you wish to admit it, PvP was a focus point for Diablo 3.

Quote

Diablo II had a big dueling community, but there was really no in-game support for it. You could go hostile and duel, but there were no ladders, teams, or really any structure to it. In Diablo III, we wanted to create an arena-style environment where players could fight each other. The different combinations of skills, traits, runes, and items available lead to an almost endless variety of builds, so rather than try to achieve perfect 1-vs.-1 balance, we focused on team-based arena PvP -- so even if one class or build is stronger than another, it’s complemented by the other classes on a team. We’ll have support for matchmaking and ladders, and we think players will have a lot of fun seeing what their single-player characters can do in an arena setting.

Jay acknowledged that PvP, while popular, had little support in Diablo 2 and that was something they wanted to change for Diablo 3.

In 2012, it would seem that blizzard has changed their minds on a ladder system for PvP with Bashiok's comment on the issue but Jay once again reinforced the idea that PvP was going to be legitimized for Diablo 3.

Quote

As we're counting down the days until we're ready to announce a release date for Diablo III, we've come to realize that the PvP game and systems aren't yet living up to our standards.

When the PvP patch is ultimately ready, it will add multiple Arena maps with themed locations and layouts, PvP-centric achievements, and a matchmaking system that will help you and your team get into fairly matched games quickly and easily. We'll also be adding a personal progression system that will reward you for successfully bashing in the other team's skulls.

We know a lot of you are looking forward to PvP, and we’ll be focusing our post-launch efforts on making sure the Arenas are as brutal, bloody, fast-paced, and awesome as we know they can be. In the meantime, we're in the process of putting the finishing touches on what we think is a truly epic campaign and co-op experience for launch.

Quote

Our original intent with PvP for Diablo III was to provide more formal support for the dueling community that existed in Diablo II. We wanted to give players some kind of structure that would not only make it easier for you to duel with one another, but also allow you to have duels that were team-based. This is how our Team Deathmatch mode emerged, and it's been instrumental in making a lot of improvements to Diablo III. But in continuing to develop this mode, playtest it, and put it in front of other developers within the company, we've found that it falls short of our expectations for a high-quality Blizzard experience.

Why else would blizzard spend so much time on the project if it was only going to play a small role in Diablo 3 as your posts were suggesting?...

Edited by Popnbake, 31 December 2012 - 07:13 PM.

[shaggy]

Indimix, on 31 December 2012 - 06:50 PM, said:

This may surprise you, but, you can make money and make an amazing game, at the same time.

However, if you want to set as rule number 1 to make the RMAH as profitable as possible, your gameplay experience will deteriorate beyond hope.

The real reason why they are doing this with PvP, lies in their need to maximize profit when players face each other in the battlefield. And of course, probably to place it in the expansion, if any.

RMAH conspiracies are boring and trite.

If they were really trying to maximize profits through the RMAH why in the world would they make decisions that clearly piss players off?  The RMAH isn't making them jack shit in profits if no one is playing the game, right?  It stands to reason that the best way to ensure high profits from RMAH is to keep people playing, so the minute someone uses RMAH conspiracy theories to justify decisions that upset people it really makes me scratch my head.

Common business sense says that happy customers equates to profits so it's pretty illogical to continue to say that Blizzard is trying to make money by making you unhappy.  They're trying to make money by putting out a quality product, otherwise they'd just have patched their shitty PvP in with the next patch and said "sorry, but that's PvP... we're not putting any more time into it."

But they did the opposite.  They are investing MORE time into trying to figure out a quality solution.  That doesn't sould like a company that's trying to milk its customers, it sounds like a company that's hell-bent on not releasing content that can't even pass internal testing.  That sounds like a company which has, in fact, learned a bit from the D3 release.  Shocking, I know.

Edited by shaggy, 31 December 2012 - 07:26 PM.

[BornBadd]

Great rebuttal shaggy ... couldn't have said it better myself (considering I'm totally wasted now that it's 4am New Years' morning). I just can't understand these people who get their panties in a wad over the fact that Blizzard is a company that needs to generate profits but for some reason is hell bent on pissing off all the players, thus denying them the profits they need. Doesn't made sense & I scratch the little bit of hair left on my head. Anyway, from what I can see from all these ranters & haters is just that: they love to rant & spew hatred. Enough! As Bobby McFerrin says, Don't worry Be Happy

Here's the video


and if that doesn't improve your day the how about


Relax & enjoy ... my motto

Edited by BornBadd, 31 December 2012 - 07:46 PM.

[Zeel]

Betrayed, on 31 December 2012 - 12:42 AM, said:

I'm shocked some of you think that the game is "okay" its not and is no where near it. Apart from the awful chat channels, the zero clan support, the lack of community purely just off how they have joining games set up with monster power etc etc etc.

APART from everything that should of been added and that is in pretty much ANY other game big or small ( even Blizzards games PAST and present games )

apart from all that I thought, yknow what... If they aren't adding simplistic things that should of came with the game at least they are working on PVP / a Blog... but nope the blog was a slap in the face, and that PVP will still take awhile.

Not to sound elitist either, but give me a break guys, Im sure some of you are content with still farming / having a good time looking for gear but a lot of us are at points with our characters where we want to be able to PvP. Im assuming the majority of people saying don't whine, D3 is about PvE farming/grinding it's how it's always been. YES I realize that, it's called having 3 characters iv farmed on that would blow your mind. Now im done with PvE grinding for very very very very small upgrades id like CLANS/CHAT/PVP/. Thank you it's been close to half a year or more now.

PvP will just make you even more frustrated and dissapointed in the game ppl who either have played thousands of hours or have "strong" credit cards will just steam roll everyone and everything unless you are in that top 100 list chances of you enjoying pvp will be limited. I can not for even phantom for a second why ppl are demanding pvp is it just so they can have something new to rage about? seeing as it will surely make ragers rage more and the ppl with the RMAH conspiracy theories run wilder than ever before.

[Betrayed]

Zeel, on 31 December 2012 - 08:48 PM, said:

Betrayed, on 31 December 2012 - 12:42 AM, said:

I'm shocked some of you think that the game is "okay" its not and is no where near it. Apart from the awful chat channels, the zero clan support, the lack of community purely just off how they have joining games set up with monster power etc etc etc.

APART from everything that should of been added and that is in pretty much ANY other game big or small ( even Blizzards games PAST and present games )

apart from all that I thought, yknow what... If they aren't adding simplistic things that should of came with the game at least they are working on PVP / a Blog... but nope the blog was a slap in the face, and that PVP will still take awhile.

Not to sound elitist either, but give me a break guys, Im sure some of you are content with still farming / having a good time looking for gear but a lot of us are at points with our characters where we want to be able to PvP. Im assuming the majority of people saying don't whine, D3 is about PvE farming/grinding it's how it's always been. YES I realize that, it's called having 3 characters iv farmed on that would blow your mind. Now im done with PvE grinding for very very very very small upgrades id like CLANS/CHAT/PVP/. Thank you it's been close to half a year or more now.

PvP will just make you even more frustrated and dissapointed in the game ppl who either have played thousands of hours or have "strong" credit cards will just steam roll everyone and everything unless you are in that top 100 list chances of you enjoying pvp will be limited. I can not for even phantom for a second why ppl are demanding pvp is it just so they can have something new to rage about? seeing as it will surely make ragers rage more and the ppl with the RMAH conspiracy theories run wilder than ever before.

It's not that I REALLY want PvP it's the fact they aren't doing other things because they are developing it. They have said it plenty of times, If we spend time on that we have less resources on other stuff. Well okay I can deal with that. But to say that and not add the many things this game could use such as...

Clan Support
Chat channels
Randomization in the world even remotely....
Create a game function ( Trade games, Duel games, Act 1 games etc etc. )
More then 30 people doing the most popular quest aka change the way linking with community works
Doing Act 1 - Diablo in one game keeping NV stacks.
Having gear less dependent on your weapon
There is very very few unique item visuals
Some sort of optional ladder system
Better home screen ( such as the one the guy posted on here not to long back or an updated one )
Better RMAH or AH functionality such as tracking items, shift clicking items, maybe item for item exhange etc etc ( I mean game is based on AH now. )
announcements on what their working on whether it be new classes, new maps, anything to let us know were not doing the same none randomized map forever.
Give bosses an update with better random mechanics ( reasonable )

And im sure I could think of plenty more, but these were off top of my head in about 2 minutes or less of time.

I'm upset they continued to say they are working on PVP but didn't ADD anything because it would take away from it, if you think paragon levels were hard to implement or monster levels then you are sadly sadly sadly mistaken. JUST like things i posted, they should of just came with the game.



P.S Ill buy all the DLC in the world if it's worth it, but the current state of the game is so grim when you're characters are amazing without the above things posted.

[Indimix]

shaggy, on 31 December 2012 - 07:20 PM, said:

Indimix, on 31 December 2012 - 06:50 PM, said:

This may surprise you, but, you can make money and make an amazing game, at the same time.

However, if you want to set as rule number 1 to make the RMAH as profitable as possible, your gameplay experience will deteriorate beyond hope.

The real reason why they are doing this with PvP, lies in their need to maximize profit when players face each other in the battlefield. And of course, probably to place it in the expansion, if any.

RMAH conspiracies are boring and trite.

If they were really trying to maximize profits through the RMAH why in the world would they make decisions that clearly piss players off?  The RMAH isn't making them jack shit in profits if no one is playing the game, right?  It stands to reason that the best way to ensure high profits from RMAH is to keep people playing, so the minute someone uses RMAH conspiracy theories to justify decisions that upset people it really makes me scratch my head.

Common business sense says that happy customers equates to profits so it's pretty illogical to continue to say that Blizzard is trying to make money by making you unhappy.  They're trying to make money by putting out a quality product, otherwise they'd just have patched their shitty PvP in with the next patch and said "sorry, but that's PvP... we're not putting any more time into it."

But they did the opposite.  They are investing MORE time into trying to figure out a quality solution.  That doesn't sould like a company that's trying to milk its customers, it sounds like a company that's hell-bent on not releasing content that can't even pass internal testing.  That sounds like a company which has, in fact, learned a bit from the D3 release.  Shocking, I know.

Your post would be completely accurate.. except for one point. Im not the majority of players, I'm unhappy (like a lot of other players in these forums), but, the real majority are cassual gamers, and they know that. To a casual gamer, to play Farmville or to play Diablo 3, is almost the same.

Those casual players, like to use the RMAH to buy stuff. The game is directed to them. That's why they put little effort in giving the game any kind of replayability.

When the money call the shots, there is no place for anything else. To Blizzard, a customer that buys Diablo 3, level 2 classes to ~60, buys 3 or 4 items in the RMAH and then stop playing for good, is the perfect customer, and that is the target, not us.

When you have that set of rules, hardcore players suffer the consequences considerably.

[baron01]

Indimix, on 31 December 2012 - 09:45 PM, said:

Your post would be completely accurate.. except for one point. Im not the majority of players, I'm unhappy (like a lot of other players in these forums), but, the real majority are cassual gamers, and they know that. To a casual gamer, to play Farmville or to play Diablo 3, is almost the same.

Those casual players, like to use the RMAH to buy stuff. The game is directed to them. That's why they put little effort in giving the game any kind of replayability.

When the money call the shots, there is no place for anything else. To Blizzard, a customer that buys Diablo 3, level 2 classes to ~60, buys 3 or 4 items in the RMAH and then stop playing for good, is the perfect customer, and that is the target, not us.

When you have that set of rules, hardcore players suffer the consequences considerably.

You are making heavy assumptions in order to keep your argument alive. The reality is that die-hard fans of a game, any game, are absolute minority. Diablo 3 is surely not different in this . Another nice feature of die-hard fans is that they are very vocal, therefore, they are creating an atmosphere where it seems everybody is happy/unhappy about the game depending, which way they perceive the game.
Game publishers are making games for as wide audience as possible because that will guarantee them sales, which will turn into profit if they sell enough copies of the game (alternatively it can be monthly subscription fee). They dont differentiate between casual or die-hard. Luckily, they also do not listen to die-hards any more than to casuals, which is good for the game in most cases.

[Bagstone]

Indimix, on 31 December 2012 - 09:45 PM, said:

Those casual players, like to use the RMAH to buy stuff. The game is directed to them. That's why they put little effort in giving the game any kind of replayability.

We can argue about a lot of things you said, but the highlighted quote is just plain ignorant. Think about all the major new stuff and all the major changes (elite packs being more rewarding for farming than act bosses, NV buff, MP levels) - they've been introduced for reasons of replayability in the first place. They're Blizzards attempt to make the game feel less boring than D2's Baal runs. The reasons why they're not there yet (I think *failed* is too hard here) are different - itemization, skill design, atmosphere, blahblahblah, this has been discussed in-depth. But a game that's been played by many players for multiple hundreds of hours definitely has replayability value to it. Just compare it to TL2 - progression is so much faster and replayability so much worse that basically after 50 hours you feel like after 500 hours of D3.

Also, I highly doubt that all casual players use the RMAH. In general, casual players don't need BiS gear, just look at the forums and see all the players posting threads searching for advice who have mediocre or worse gear, and they're fine. Casual players are scratching the 100k DPS line, and for that you don't necessarily need the RMAH.

We can agree that D3 has its flaws, but why do some people always have to bend the truth and after 500 hours of game play (or maybe even 1000) act as if this game has brought them only 1-2 hours of fun? Did someone force you to play this boring game for another 999 hours?

Indimix, on 31 December 2012 - 09:45 PM, said:

To Blizzard, a customer that buys Diablo 3, level 2 classes to ~60, buys 3 or 4 items in the RMAH and then stop playing for good, is the perfect customer, and that is the target, not us.

Interesting. Maybe you should take a look at all the patch notes, I'd say about 80% of the changes won't ever be recognized by the type of player you're describing. For example, there are even many many many players who don't have a Hellfire Ring yet.