17 replies to this topic

[Ordz]

Hello everyone,

I am currently playing a WW/WOTB barb, these are my stats =
http://us.battle.net...637/hero/119092

Yet even with this gear which i am told will easily do MP7 to MP8 runs with little to no death, how come i keep dying?

Is there a problem with my spec? Is my gear lacking in certain areas?

What is the problem, if anyone could help me with some ideas or reasons as to why im facing a large amount of death that would be awesome!

Thanks ahead of time for the responses.

Merry Christmas!

[LLow]

Try using Warcry if you keep dying.

[Ordz]

I have tried that as well, in replace of another ability, but it still comes around with the same level of results, maybe get away from things a little more, but nothing else, is there anything else that would cause a large array of deaths?

[Zogfang]

Try replacing Tough as Nails with Bloodthirst to simulate a LL Mainhand. As you have only 5.8% LL and zero LoH, that might help. You could also try a good pair of IK gloves for the 3 piece bonus.
If the LL helps I would consider replacing your main hand with a LL weapon and going back to Tough as Nails (Or an offensive passive for that matter).

Btw.: What are your countermeasures to prevent mobs from fleeing (Echoing Fury proc) and thus rendering your tornados useless?
Wolf and Raven's post in this topic tackles that issue quite extensive.

Edited by Zogfang, 25 December 2012 - 02:19 AM.

[1up_Mush]

First of all id say that you should cap your movement speed. It helps manoeuvring trough danger and spawn more tornadoes. Secondly, you must remember that with good life steal, sometimes fighting just a few mobs is harder than taking on a screen full of mobs. Finally, never use ww if batttle rage is not up or else you will starve fury in the middle of a pack and be in grave danger.

[Draahl]

Not sure why ppl nowadays go life converted instead of LoH. I do mp7 easily with 600 to all, 40k hp, 1900 life on hit and about 70k unbuffed dps.

[Zogfang]

Cheaper and scaling with higher dps

[Kyoob]

I think your problem is life sustainability. LL is nice and all, but I found LoH more effective with WW/Tornadoes. I think combination of both might be nice. Also around 500 all res is nice, 5.7k armor is nice too, war cry will help you alot.

I think for WW barb, Life Steal becomes really effective at very high DPS levels. Something like 300k+. I've never reached that myself, so I'm not sure, but I always had more success with LoH. On high MP I think you will need both.

I have somewhat similar stast as you do, only less LL but around 1300 LoH and I don't need either war cry nor bloodthirst (on MP 0-2, any higher and I need more defenses).

Another problem might be a playstyle. For example molten affix can be dangerous and is better avoided, if there is plenty of trash mobs, then you are probably safe. Also arcane affix can be annoying sometimes. And some kind of mobs, like champion tremors for example, might be dangerous, because they do insane damage.

EDIT: Also you are using Echoing Fury, which might cause mobs to flee from tornadoes.

Edited by Kyoob, 27 December 2012 - 06:02 AM.

[dexteriade]

first of all i bellieve you are reffering at that you die at mp 7-8.
it is highly improbable that you die at mp 1-2...

taking that into consideration:
- you have a nice dps (136k is not with battle rage and wotb up that is) for LL to work. and you seam to have enough of it.
- for higher mp one needs high defences - armour/AR - you are quite low. Revert to tough as nails (instead of bloodthirst) and warcry instead of HOTA.

actually you should choose between two builds - either HOTA build where you should maximize your damage and LL for the HOTA hits... but for higher mp might prove a chalange with bigger mobs - but it is good for uber runs.
either WW build where you have tough as nails and warcry and beside LL you should get some loh... loh (between 500 and 1000 is enough if coupled with 3-5 LL) and at least 1.8 attacks/second will certainly keep you alive through most mobs in higher mp. and hit wotb for troublesome packs. but as a barbarian expect problems with sucubus packs (and mostly all ranged packs especially if you have the echoing fury) and with the ubers.. magda/zoltan.

[TheDemokin]

Honestly - your stats are definitely sufficient to play MP6-7, i have no idea why you die, unless you're standing in fire. etc. How about you do a little recording and let us see - because stat wise - you're not miles and miles away, so it's the way you play...

[Isil]

Check my profile, maybe it will help u improve your build or building your gear in right direction. Everything what i need its just vile wards with big load of str and strongham bracers with same. Then i will just go for better versions of all items i am currently wearin with more str. Currently i am clearin mp6 with no problems at all. With slaughter rune on wotb and stone of jordan i am killing elites very fast and during wotb i can even tornado through fires/arcane shits and poison with no problem because my ls (8%) and IK 5 set bonus is healing me very well.

Link to my profile is in my next post coz this is the 10th and i cant post url lol^^

Edited by Isil, 27 December 2012 - 09:33 AM.

[Isil]

Isil, on 27 December 2012 - 09:30 AM, said:

Check my profile, maybe it will help u improve your build or building your gear in right direction. Everything what i need its just vile wards with big load of str and strongham bracers with same. Then i will just go for better versions of all items i am currently wearin with more str. Currently i am clearin mp6 with no problems at all. With slaughter rune on wotb and stone of jordan i am killing elites very fast and during wotb i can even tornado through fires/arcane shits and poison with no problem because my ls (8%) and IK 5 set bonus is healing me very well.

Link to my profile is in my next post coz this is the 10th and i cant post url lol^^

I hope it will help you
http://eu.battle.net...2586/hero/31496

Edited by Isil, 27 December 2012 - 09:33 AM.

[seraphim4]

Kyoob, on 27 December 2012 - 05:59 AM, said:

I think for WW barb, Life Steal becomes really effective at very high DPS levels. Something like 300k+. I've never reached that myself, so I'm not sure, but I always had more success with LoH. On high MP I think you will need both.

you dont even have to go that far, 200kdps + should be more than enough for you to want to switch over to leech.
im just about at 400k dps fully buffed and at that point i dont see how loh would even get close

[Kyoob]

seraphim4, on 27 December 2012 - 12:56 PM, said:

Kyoob, on 27 December 2012 - 05:59 AM, said:

I think for WW barb, Life Steal becomes really effective at very high DPS levels. Something like 300k+. I've never reached that myself, so I'm not sure, but I always had more success with LoH. On high MP I think you will need both.

you dont even have to go that far, 200kdps + should be more than enough for you to want to switch over to leech.
im just about at 400k dps fully buffed and at that point i dont see how loh would even get close

Yes, at certain point LL is just superior to LoH, but I myself am only at about 120-130k DPS. At this point LoH is still reasonably powerful. The question is where is that breakpoint, at that would be quite hard to calculate.

Because you need to take into account your all res, armor, health (not that important), dodge, attack speed (LoH scales with ap), monster damage (which varies mob to mob, MP to MP), life per sec regen, reflect damage affix and maybe a few more things i can't just recall right now. And thas a lot variables.

But I agree, generally speaking LL becomes superior to LoH the more DPS you have. LoH scales with attack speed, but it's easier to double your damage then double your APS. Also LoH 'suffers' from skills coefficients. Before the tornado nerf, LoH was actually so ridiculously OP that nobody even cared to consider LL. Right now it's more balanced.

And actually, life per second could be the most efficient way to sustain health, as you dont rely on hitting somrthing to regain health. However, the amount of HPS needed, even when maxed, is not comparable to either LoH or LL. It might be useful in PvP though, especially when combined with high defense. I'd like to see two high EHP/life regen barbs in one combat. Clash of the Immortals.

[TheDemokin]

Kyoob, on 27 December 2012 - 02:11 PM, said:

seraphim4, on 27 December 2012 - 12:56 PM, said:

Kyoob, on 27 December 2012 - 05:59 AM, said:

I think for WW barb, Life Steal becomes really effective at very high DPS levels. Something like 300k+. I've never reached that myself, so I'm not sure, but I always had more success with LoH. On high MP I think you will need both.

you dont even have to go that far, 200kdps + should be more than enough for you to want to switch over to leech.
im just about at 400k dps fully buffed and at that point i dont see how loh would even get close

Yes, at certain point LL is just superior to LoH, but I myself am only at about 120-130k DPS. At this point LoH is still reasonably powerful. The question is where is that breakpoint, at that would be quite hard to calculate.

Because you need to take into account your all res, armor, health (not that important), dodge, attack speed (LoH scales with ap), monster damage (which varies mob to mob, MP to MP), life per sec regen, reflect damage affix and maybe a few more things i can't just recall right now. And thas a lot variables.

But I agree, generally speaking LL becomes superior to LoH the more DPS you have. LoH scales with attack speed, but it's easier to double your damage then double your APS. Also LoH 'suffers' from skills coefficients. Before the tornado nerf, LoH was actually so ridiculously OP that nobody even cared to consider LL. Right now it's more balanced.

And actually, life per second could be the most efficient way to sustain health, as you dont rely on hitting somrthing to regain health. However, the amount of HPS needed, even when maxed, is not comparable to either LoH or LL. It might be useful in PvP though, especially when combined with high defense. I'd like to see two high EHP/life regen barbs in one combat. Clash of the Immortals.

Guys please - you are forgetting the most important reason for LoH or LS - it's not to heal yourself it's to balance. The balance is between the damage intake vs healing. Your EHP comes in between the two sides of the scale as the pivot point. The lower the EHP the more LS / LoH you need.

Because of having effectively 3 variables in the equation - the EHP, the healing and the damage intake - it's quite impossible to calculate the precise point at which LS is better than LOH. Just think of it as the 2 extreme scenarios:

• Barb with 3k armor and 300 AR
  
• Barb with 10k armor and 1k AR

You have to weight both of these scenarios as well as a multitude of any other EHP as well as APS and DPS, only then you can truly point to where on the curve the LS becomes better than LoH.

It's exactly because of that you cannot say that 2k LOH is better than 3% LS at 100k DPS... if you have 10k armor and 1k AR 3% LS is going to be more than sufficient to keep you up...

Life per second is out of the question unless your EHP is extremely high, as in the 10k armor and 1k AR, then i can envision anyone living thru higher MPs with life per second, even then it would be pretty tough. On MP10, Maghda for example, hits like a truck even with very solid EHP around 7k armor and 600AR - her hits could easily bring you down by 15-20k life, with LS or high amounts of LoH & high APS you could heal yourself back to full in about 2-3 seconds, to do so with life per second you'll need an obscene amount of 20k / 3 seconds = 6.6666k life per second, which i don't think is obtainable by any standards.

So any time you talk or think about LS or LoH or any other healing think about balancing scale of damage intake vs healing with the pivot being the EHP.

[Kyoob]

TheDemokin, on 27 December 2012 - 04:36 PM, said:

...

You are just repeating what we already said. And saying LoH and LL is not to heal yourself is wrong.

Also, it's possible to calculate the relations. It's just a bit more complex. But we know most of the variables.

[Andead]

Ordz, on 25 December 2012 - 12:59 AM, said:

Hello everyone,

I am currently playing a WW/WOTB barb, these are my stats =
http://us.battle.net...637/hero/119092

Yet even with this gear which i am told will easily do MP7 to MP8 runs with little to no death, how come i keep dying?

Is there a problem with my spec? Is my gear lacking in certain areas?

What is the problem, if anyone could help me with some ideas or reasons as to why im facing a large amount of death that would be awesome!

Thanks ahead of time for the responses.

Merry Christmas!

You die because this spec was meant to farm XP on MP0-MP1.
Your gear can handle MP7-8 but you need to use a better spec.
Get rid of WW and use HoTA:Thunderstrike as your secondary attack.
Use Rend:Blood Lust for button 3.
If you find HoTA:Thunderstrike is not filling your fury bar fast enough change Frenzy with Bash:Instigation.

[TheDemokin]

Kyoob, on 27 December 2012 - 05:00 PM, said:

TheDemokin, on 27 December 2012 - 04:36 PM, said:

...

You are just repeating what we already said. And saying LoH and LL is not to heal yourself is wrong.

Also, it's possible to calculate the relations. It's just a bit more complex. But we know most of the variables.

Reading comprehension = 0.