53 replies to this topic

[JuhnuTheGod]

I see wizard also as the weakest against RD. But with life steal weapon + blood magic rune wiz can handle RD with ease. Get some defensive skills dammit!

Of course, I admit that there are some things that need to be fixed in RD, like sentries should not reflect damage to you but they do atm. But making RD any easier than it is currently would be stupid in my opinion. If nerf it, what next? They remove ranged attacks so you don't need even life or all resists...

[Hasansabbat]

Emberos, on 20 December 2012 - 09:32 PM, said:

On topic: there are certain packs that are indeed broken right now with reflect (health link and certain champ packs) and blizzard has acknowledged this.  These should be fixed.  Other than that, adding in some defense and life steal seems to solve the problem even at very high damage output (top 1% type character damage output).  Jaetch or someone with top .1% damage output would have to weigh in about RD at those levels. From my perspective, I would say some visual indication of reflects would be a good addition but, other than that and fixing known bugs, I don't see a need for an affix redesign or nerf.

I have put horde and Health link packs int o the clip btw Horde is hard, but provided you have enough dps health link is way too easy. The health link pack in vid dies in 9-10 seconds.

[tychoblu]

op is responding too much on this post, obvious troll, delete thread plz.

[Geniii]

My archon wiz has a high risk to die when facing a group of RD mobs. Especially if the way to some health globes is blocked.

Blizz didn't give exact details how they want to change RD. So maybe there will be no nerf but another game mechanic.

[Oxidys]

AudioCG, on 20 December 2012 - 09:52 PM, said:

Oxidys, on 20 December 2012 - 09:41 PM, said:

i like to see how weak people's arguments are by how often they pick a single phrase or sentance, and think if they reply to just that, it automatically makes their point of view right.

its clearly time for me to leave this troll bait thread.   instead of adding difficulty in fun and meaningful ways, people insist on banging their face into a curb to pretend its "a challange".

Its Challenge BTW.

Ok, how would you suggest they make RD more challenging but in a different form?

Im all ears.

only reason im back in this thread is because you actually asked for some intellegent discussion.

anything that would make RD avoidable using player skill would make this ability infinitely more fun.

ie, increase its potency, but have it pulse on and off like shield affix does.

or when you hit the mob, it throws projectiles back at you that you can move and dodge.

anything that makes that affix actually involve player skill over manditory build options.

i dont want the affix to be easier, i want player skill to actually matter.   if i can dodge it, then buff the shit out of its damage for all i care.  i just want being good at the game to mean something.

Edit:  being force to use a skill to trivialize RD =/= good at the game.  it just limites players' ability to enjoy the game with the skills they like.

Edited by Oxidys, 21 December 2012 - 08:57 AM.

[Hasansabbat]

Oxidys, on 21 December 2012 - 08:52 AM, said:

AudioCG, on 20 December 2012 - 09:52 PM, said:

Oxidys, on 20 December 2012 - 09:41 PM, said:

i like to see how weak people's arguments are by how often they pick a single phrase or sentance, and think if they reply to just that, it automatically makes their point of view right.

its clearly time for me to leave this troll bait thread.   instead of adding difficulty in fun and meaningful ways, people insist on banging their face into a curb to pretend its "a challange".

Its Challenge BTW.

Ok, how would you suggest they make RD more challenging but in a different form?

Im all ears.

only reason im back in this thread is because you actually asked for some intellegent discussion.

anything that would make RD avoidable using player skill would make this ability infinitely more fun.

ie, increase its potency, but have it pulse on and off like shield affix does.

or when you hit the mob, it throws projectiles back at you that you can move and dodge.

anything that makes that affix actually involve player skill over manditory build options.

i dont want the affix to be easier, i want player skill to actually matter.   if i can dodge it, then buff the shit out of its damage for all i care.  i just want being good at the game to mean something.

Edit:  being force to use a skill to trivialize RD =/= good at the game.  it just limites players' ability to enjoy the game with the skills they like.

Only problem with reflect dmg is you take the dmg first then you heal from life steal. So, you don't nuke all targets at once if you have low defenses. That's the main problem for most of you guys. Try to separate mobs in reflect packs, or merge them with non-reflect mobs/packs around. So even if most say otherwise, dealing with reflect packs requires player skills as well.

In this video I demonstrated that reflects aren't a big problem on MP10 even if you have huge nuke ability. And I say it again, WD is the hardest to play vs reflect since it has the best nuke&dps in the game.

[Nyarlathotep]

Quote

And I say it again, WD is the hardest to play vs reflect since it has the best nuke&dps in the game.

OK, now you just gave yourself away. But thanks for the good laugh...

http://www.diablopro...at_dps_unbuffed

7 x WD in the top 200DPS ?... And WD are the best DPS in game ? Just count the Wizards and DH in the top 200...

And guess what ? Even Jaetch and his 440K DPS unbuffed, despite HIMSELF having no issue with RD does understand why some people are frustrated about them and agrees they should be fixed.
I don't think RD needs a nerf, like many have said in this thread, but a FIX. I have a Wiz, probably quite very casual with my 145K DPS, 500 AR and 5% LL, have tried many many templates, and always come back to "the one" I love to play. Cause this is the way I like to play my Wiz and that's what it is about isn't it ? Everyone should be able to play their preferred style without being penalized for their template. Sure, I'm happy to die when I do stupid things, or when I don't have enough skill. I deserved it. What I do NOT deserve, is to be clustered out of my favourite template (which has been proven works pretty well : an old days classical Hydra - Blizzard - Signature spell : I favor Electrocute over the more traditional Piercing orb, but that is personal preference) and totally UNABLE to drop ANY form of Hydra since they do proc RD but NOT the LL from my weapon. If I just drop an Hydra on the ground, I'm dead no matter what I will do.

So all in all, I am very happy that Blizzard is going to permit me again to use my template to its full extend on the RD mobs as well. I'm persuaded that any Wiz who doesn't have any issues on RD doesn't use Hydra and that they would probably start having issues if they would. Banning a complete spell with any of its runes just cause of an affix is bad.

Edited by Nyarlathotep, 21 December 2012 - 11:58 AM.

[Faldrath]

Nyarlathotep, on 21 December 2012 - 11:56 AM, said:

Quote

And I say it again, WD is the hardest to play vs reflect since it has the best nuke&dps in the game.

OK, now you just gave yourself away. But thanks for the good laugh...


7 x WD in the top 200DPS ?... And WD are the best DPS in game ? Just count the Wizards and DH in the top 200...

Not that I agree with everything else he's saying, but I think in this case he means "the best nuke&dps" as in the best nuke skill in the game, i.e., Zombie Bears - not overall character dps.

[Syronicus]

It would seem to me that this discussion is a joke since Blizzard already admitted to the RD issue being a fault of their miscalculation of the RD effect when using monster power. They are "fixing" their mistake because the way RD is implemented is not the way they intended it to work in the first place. To say they are "nerfing" it seems a bit short sighted. They are addressing a flaw in their game that arose when they implemented Monster Power.

And for the sake of all that is holy, the wizard is by far the most instagib character when it comes to RD. Even at 250k DPS unbuffed, pop Arcane Destruction within range of and RD mob and boom! Instagib! But to be honest, that's a whole other discussion. lol

Edited by Syronicus, 21 December 2012 - 12:26 PM.

[Hasansabbat]

Nyarlathotep, on 21 December 2012 - 11:56 AM, said:

Quote

And I say it again, WD is the hardest to play vs reflect since it has the best nuke&dps in the game.

OK, now you just gave yourself away. But thanks for the good laugh...

http://www.diablopro...at_dps_unbuffed

7 x WD in the top 200DPS ?... And WD are the best DPS in game ? Just count the Wizards and DH in the top 200...

And guess what ? Even Jaetch and his 440K DPS unbuffed, despite HIMSELF having no issue with RD does understand why some people are frustrated about them and agrees they should be fixed.
I don't think RD needs a nerf, like many have said in this thread, but a FIX. I have a Wiz, probably quite very casual with my 145K DPS, 500 AR and 5% LL, have tried many many templates, and always come back to "the one" I love to play. Cause this is the way I like to play my Wiz and that's what it is about isn't it ? Everyone should be able to play their preferred style without being penalized for their template. Sure, I'm happy to die when I do stupid things, or when I don't have enough skill. I deserved it. What I do NOT deserve, is to be clustered out of my favourite template (which has been proven works pretty well : an old days classical Hydra - Blizzard - Signature spell : I favor Electrocute over the more traditional Piercing orb, but that is personal preference) and totally UNABLE to drop ANY form of Hydra since they do proc RD but NOT the LL from my weapon. If I just drop an Hydra on the ground, I'm dead no matter what I will do.

So all in all, I am very happy that Blizzard is going to permit me again to use my template to its full extend on the RD mobs as well. I'm persuaded that any Wiz who doesn't have any issues on RD doesn't use Hydra and that they would probably start having issues if they would. Banning a complete spell with any of its runes just cause of an affix is bad.

Yeah m8 go look at the sheet dps. That's the most accurate and correct data. You have no idea about WD class when you are playing with WD your dmg output becomes worse with increased attack speed.
Won't go in much detail but top dps WD's on the list can't match my farming speed&dmg output.

[prompten]

I would say that it totally depends on your build for your character. If you use a lot of nuke skills then it is really difficult handling RD if you don't use or have a "panic button" like Monks with Serenity, DH with Smoke Screen, WD with Spirit Walk etc... But then you can only do burst damage during the effect of you invulnerability skill. Meteor is one good example for Wizards. A friend of mine uses Meteor as his most damage skill and he is really frustrated with RD but for the spec i use it's not as big of a deal (normal CM spec).

I want to start using the CM / Archon spec that many top Wizards use but i have too low resistance for that and a good weapon for that build is expensive if you don't want to degrade your dps.

I don't want them to nerf the RD too much because then I feel that I have no goal in getting better gear. You should have something that is a bit more challenging to motivate you else there is no point in upgrading. That's how i see it anyways.

As others have said: Play on the MP you can manage all affixes good enough. The higher MP you are playing the more important your gear and spec becomes.

[Litheum]

I don't have a problem with the concept of reflect damage. Its different and when mixed with other affixes gives a unique challenge.
I think ideally, it should reflect just enough to negate healing from the average characters LOH/LS/LPS etc. If you are average geared, you just have to be more carefull around reflect mobs, if you are undergeared in healing, you will feel the sting a bit, but not 1-shot yourself, and if you stack LOH/LS etc, its less noticeable or not noticeable at all.

The main two problems I have with it, is to outgear it now, you need to build your character just for RD. Which is not good design IMO. The affix is just too far out of whack from the others. It's really annoying 1-shotting yourself, or having to kite forever and wait for CDs for the affix. Especially on MP0-2, when you are intentionally nerfing mobs so you can speed run.

The other thing, of course, is not having nay visual queue that mobs have it. Make them glow red, make them have swords circle them, give them some indicater so I can see it before I melt my own face.

Also, Archon Wiz is by far the most effected by RD. CM not so much, but Archon......definately.

[Vooodu]

Reflect damage is lazy, stupid, pointless game mechanic.  I have no real problem with it, but the fact that it exists is lame.


People saying they enjoy it or go off on some rant about "You need more life mitigation'' are full of it.


It restricts builds and item use.  The only gear check in any Diablo game should come from Defensive gear...  And if you have no defensive gear you better be able dodge good.

Being able to kill yourself, especially with ranged attacks is the dumbest thing i've ever seen in a Diablo game.

[Xoraph]

Hasansabbat, on 21 December 2012 - 12:26 PM, said:

.
Won't go in much detail but top dps WD's on the list can't match my farming speed&dmg output.

Obvious troll is obvious.

Don't bang your ego on the door frame when you leave.