39 replies to this topic

[Bagstone]

Cryomatic, on 15 December 2012 - 01:11 PM, said:

Huminator, on 15 December 2012 - 10:36 AM, said:

Only an idiot would try to convince people mp5 is efficient. You can't argue with an idiot. So ill stop here. We have had similar discussion in the WD forum, and even after 15 pages the "mp5 sayers" still did not get it.

what if you are an idiot?

TIL: Even the world #1 top DPS wizard can't run MP10 efficiently (he's fast, but channels too long to be "efficient"). Jaetch, who's closing in on him, said his sweet spot is MP4.

What Huminator said is true for 99% of all people. Besides, this whole thread is hilarious, everyone should make his own assessment and choose his own MP level based on a mix of efficiency and fun. My sweet spot is MP1 or 2, but I ran MP10 lately (really slow for me) because I was bored. (With Frostburn's DPS I would run MP10 for sure, too).

[Huminator]

Obvious its different for Archon wizards.. But for everyone else mp 0-3 is better in terms of xp and loot.

[Emberos]

this thread . . . again.  ./wheeeeeeee

[Temsen]

The highest MP you can do without losing (much) time compared to MP0 is the best.
Say you do MP0 in 10min and MP2 runs in 11min. That's 10% slower for an additional 50% MF, 20% bonus EXP and 8% bonus item.
Max MF before MP is 375, so more than a 10% gain. EXP bonus is 144% or 180% (2x perf leorics) still slightly more than a 10% gain. Bonus item chance can't be compared as MP0 has none. In this case MP2 > MP0, correct me if I'm wrong.
However, the majority of the playerbase won't have the gear to be that quick on higher MP levels.

[maka]

Emberos, on 15 December 2012 - 08:20 PM, said:

this thread . . . again.  ./wheeeeeeee

Thrilling, isn't it?

[zeroRooter]

tommmmmm, on 15 December 2012 - 08:37 AM, said:

I've seen you Shadowbane trying to explain, not only in this topic, to noobs, mathematically, that mp0 is best for paragon and xp and legendaries. I have one piece of advice to you:



After watching that please adjust your expectations of the community you are trying to be part of.

lolololololol

[proletaria]

Proof positive that the US government does an amazing job of running the education system!

[omnom]

keep this argument class/spec specific it gets alot more intelligent and less trollish a ww/hota hybrdi barb with 300k dps(sheet dps with hota soj/full IK/dualfury gen passives) is going to farm a different mp for max efficiency than a 500k unbuffed archon wiz even tho both are prob going to get similar legendary/hour rates

[Lilly32]

This doesnt make sense.  The most upgrades should come in M0-1 because how else would you be able to proress and be able to handle the added mob strength in higher MPs unless you were geared?

[Tsukishima]

Quote

I believe MP4 and MP5 are the most efficient Monster Power levels to loot items.

Ok. So we are trying to find which MP level is the most efficient in giving loot.

Quote

Assumptions:

You do the same amount of damage in all MP levels.
You can handle the incoming damage in all MP levels.
Length of runs are directly correlated to Monster Health

The first assumption is for a controlled experiment. Nothing odd there.

The second assumption assumes the additional damage doesn't kill you. As monster dmg can increase up to 371% of base dmg, this assumption is not really safe. Death reduces the efficiency of loot (as it increases the time taken).

The third assumption assumes that the only consideration with more monster hp is more time taken. This is reasonable only if assumption 2 is. For bursty builds that do not expect to engage enemy units for long, having them live long enough to counterattack is a big difference. The resource constraints for each class also make it such that classes that can run out of resource in extended combat will experience more problems than other classes. Furthermore this assumes that the base damage is low enough that there is a significant increase in time. If a player can attain overkill in most of the monsters this assumption would be violated.

Quote

When you take the increase in health, and divide it by the bonuses you get with each MP, MP4 and MP5 get roughly the best bonuses.  After that, the health of the monsters scales up far more than the additional bonuses.

Proposal: MP4/5 give the highest additional bonuses per additional monster health.

This does seem so yes.

Quote

I'd bet with a large sample size and the best characters you'd see the best returns on MP4 or MP5.

The limitations of this theory are as follows.

1. Does not take into account resource constraints (assumption 3)
2. Assumes that incoming damage is trival (assumption 2)
3. Assumes that the positive correlation in mp level and time for run is significant (assumption 3)

So when would this theory work? For a player who has no significant resource constraints, is largely immune to enemy damage or resilient enough that the chance death is low enough to be ignored and whose damage is not high enough to overkill enemy mobs across different mp levels.

Even with enough gear and player skill to avoid the first 2, I don't think assumption 3 is reasonable at all.

[againstme]

In theory, running MP1-3 and just running through everything seems like the optimal way to farm loot but the only times I've ever gotten any decent loot that's sold for alot of gold has been on MP4-6.

Everything besides that has either been vendor trash or just not worth that much.

[Serpenth]

I started farming MP3 a week ago because I was tired of looting absolutely nothing in MP0.  I've already experienced much better drops/exp gain compared to MP0.

I didn't do any fancy math or anything however I have noticed more gold per run and experience gain for about the same amount of time it would take do MP0.  I was in belief that MP0 is farmed to net the most legendary items.  I could be wrong, just what I read and was told.  I was also told that you should always farm the highest MP capable.

So to me it seems that if you want more legendary do MP0, if you just want efficient exp gain/loot do highest MP possible that doesn't take forever.  Now this could all be wrong, but I really don't care, because I'm having a better experience in MP3 than MP0.  If I had better gear I would do higher MP.  Oh well have fun debating math and stuff.

[Huminator]

Ofc MP3 gives more gold per run compared to MP0. The reason for the is the obvious extra gf/mf you have. Its all about gold/loot per time spent. The most common term is xp/loot per hour. MP0 goes quicker than MP3. And therefor you do more runs per hour compared to mp3. Its all about efficiency. The Monster power your most efficient one is obvious the best. And in your case on MP3 you have to 1 shot all trash and be constant moving forward with only a few secs standing still at elite packs. If you do that, you are efficient and its all good. But if you dont, you need to consider going on a lower monster power, disregarding what logic your brain may be feeding you with. Higher MP does not equal more xp and loot per time spend. I know logic wants it to be that way. But blizzard designed it different.

[Ryude]

Using xplogger (google it), I was able to determine that mp0 alkaizer run took 11 minutes and rewarded me with 39.6mil xp per hour. mp1 took 13 minutes and rewarded me with 41.14mil xp per hour. This is with a Flawless Star Ruby and Hellfire ring equipped.

[KouKayne]

i'll say just this:

i'm a casual player, i do 1 run each day if i'm not busy, have been farming mp3-4 for 1 month and i found 0 items worth more than 50k.
i start doing mp0 runs to farm paragon levels and in the second one i find a 1200dps slotted wand (i never got a 1200dps 1h weapon before), worth about 20m, and a lot more legendary drops than mp4

end of discussion.

Edited by KouKayne, 16 December 2012 - 09:25 PM.

[Syronicus]

nuhertz, on 15 December 2012 - 07:44 AM, said:

I believe MP4 and MP5 are the most efficient Monster Power levels to loot items.  The math seems straight forward, and my unscientific in game play seems to confirm.

I would like to argue using my own personal unscientific evidence that playing the game on anything above MP1 for loot and XP is just silly. If you want to test the might of your character then by all means, play the game at MP5, or MP10 for that matter but if you are just going to loot and XP, then go for MP1. It's the fastest and most efficient way to farm... IMHO of course.

[MiLoTank]

Interesting, but that would depand on different class and builds and gears...There is no single answer to which MP is the most efficient one.

[Smiggins]

For my DH since i can vault constantly and i don't much much time inbetween mobs the most efficient for both xp and loot is mp0 ( possibly mp1 i'm still testing ) and the general rule of thumb i've found is. If Mp1 takes the same amount of time as mp0--Then do MP1 if MP2 takes 3 more minutes longer than Mp1--Do mp1.    You should do the highest MP you can, that you can finish the run the same time as mp0.   But if mp0-1 is too boring, do w/e mp you enjoy playing.

[Vuxra]

Wouldn't it depend on gear? If you have enough dps to one shot mobs in mp4 then of course it's going to be more efficient than one shotting mobs in mp3. But if in mp5 you have to use two or three shots, it won't be as efficient. Right?

I typically use archon for exp farming but I only have about 100k  dps buffed, so I tend to stick with mp0. I can also do mp1 but the elites actually take more than a second to kill so I don't typically bother. The way I see it, more killing is basically the same as more magic find. Though I run MF gear anyways since it doesn't hurt my dps much and I still see legendaries drop every few runs on mp0.

[Syronicus]

Vuxra, on 18 December 2012 - 10:26 PM, said:

Wouldn't it depend on gear? If you have enough dps to one shot mobs in mp4 then of course it's going to be more efficient than one shotting mobs in mp3. But if in mp5 you have to use two or three shots, it won't be as efficient. Right?

I typically use archon for exp farming but I only have about 100k  dps buffed, so I tend to stick with mp0. I can also do mp1 but the elites actually take more than a second to kill so I don't typically bother. The way I see it, more killing is basically the same as more magic find. Though I run MF gear anyways since it doesn't hurt my dps much and I still see legendaries drop every few runs on mp0.

It is very gear dependant. The best way to look at is if you can one shot on any level then by all means, play that level but in the end the best method is the fastest method and if that is MP0, in your case, then you are doing it right.

I like MP1 since the reflect damage isn't as bad. I run 330k dps buffed and in MP4 and 5 the RD is killer.

Edited by Syronicus, 19 December 2012 - 09:28 PM.