[Daemaro]

I just read about Imperius.

Maybe he is the angel in this picture.



UPDATE NEW PICTURE 8-14-08:


In the one picture the chestplate kind of looks like it has a upturned sword "blazing" on it.

Quote

Imperius
Male. Robes of royal red with a shining breastplate upon which the image of an upturned sword blazes. His nature is fierce, and he thinks that Sanctuary should be destroyed. Likely the Archangel of War.

It would make sense in a way. He wants to destroy sanctuary and the word "blazing" was used just like in the picture.

If you look closer at the sketch at the very top in that picture it looks like Tyrael to me in the bottom right clutching his eyes. So maybe he was confronted by Imperius for meddling in mortal affairs and destroying the worldstone and was cast back into Sanctuary.

What does everyone else think about this?

Quote

"And a child will cradle Terror in his breast as the heart of man falls under the shadow.

A Wanderer will pass through the ancient lands trailing chaos in his wake.

The Three Brothers will be reunited as the mortal world trembles before their might.

And so it was foretold that the Three, once reunited, would be shattered again --

And the last of them would set his sights on the holy mount. The warnings held that
Their defeat would be illusory - that the final gambit had yet to be played . . ."

* * *

And now at last the storm surges forth from the southlands, and the hand of Destruction
Reaches out to undo the workings of the Ancients. The tides of Hell surge - ready to smash
Down upon the shores of the mortal world - to drown the guilty and the innocent alike."


- Excerpt from the Prophecies of the Final Day

That is what all happened in the last two games.

Quote

"When Deckard Cain returns to the ruins of Tristram's Cathedral seeking clues to new stirrings of evil,
a comet from the heavens strikes the very ground where Diablo once entered the world.
The comet carries a dark omen in its fiery being and it calls the heroes of Sanctuary
To defend the mortal world against the rising powers of the Burning Hells –
And even the failing luminaries of the High Heavens itself."

So this means the comet is indeed from heaven and that some angel is "failing" or becoming corrupt.


They changed the D3 site text a while back and it now says:

Quote

When Deckard Cain returns to the ruins of Tristram Cathedral seeking clues to defeat new stirrings of evil, a fiery harbinger of doom falls from the heavens, striking the very ground where Diablo once entered the world. This fire from the sky reawakens ancient evils and calls the heroes of Sanctuary to defend the mortal world against the rising powers of the Burning Hells once again.

They removed the failing luminaries part, kind of weird. They still mention a harbinger from heaven though.



And here's some quotes straight from The Veiled Prophet (Thanks to Atrumentis for this part.):

Quote

THERE IS NO NEED FOR THIS DEBATE TO CONTINUE....OR TO HAVE EVEN BEGUN, declared a majestic angel with robes of royal red and a shining breastplate upon which the image of an upturned sword blazed. THE PATH IS OBVIOUS....WHAT HAS BEEN WROUGHT BY THE TRAITOR MUST BE UNDONE! LET THE HOST FINISH WHAT IT BEGAN, EVEN IF WE MUST CUT THROUGH A HUNDRED RANKS OF DEMONS TO ACCOMPLISH IT!

Quote

FROM HIS CRIMES WAS THIS ABOMINATION CALLED SANCTUARY CREATED! JUDGE ONE, AND YOU RIGHTLY JUDGE THEM BOTH!

Quote

I SAY THAT THE RENEGADE MUST BE FOREVER IMPRISONED AND HIS NEST OF DEMON-SPAWN ERADICATED!

Quote

[Talking to Tyrael]
WELL, OLD FRIEND? asked Imperius. HOW WILL YOU CHOOSE, YOU WHO HAVE SEEN THEM AT THEIR MOST FOUL? WILL YOU VOTE WITH ME AND PUT AN END TO THIS MOST HEINOUS OF SPAWNING GROUNDS?

For anyone who thinks the sword isn't "upturned"...

Think about it, the natural way you wield a sword is like this:

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:G7bi1InlPOwJ::jimbocyberdoc.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/sword.jpg

So if you upturn it it would be with the hilt on top.

It's tricky wording.






Please only constructive posts only. I wan't this to be a fairly serious discussion.

This post has been edited by Daemaro: 05 April 2009 - 07:42 AM

[Atrumentis]

As I said before, very nice find. I don't like or agree with many theories, but I really like yours.

We know for a fact that at least one other angel enters the scene, and it seems likely that this angel should be either one of the Angiris Council or Inarius. Out of all the members of the Council, Imperius is the most likely to show, since he has the strongest personality.

Edit: Sorry but, that symbol is meant to denote official threads. As much as I like your theory, this thread isn't really for 'official' or collective discussion. Not yet, anyway.

[Daemaro]

Atrumentis said:

As I said before, very nice find. I don't like or agree with many theories, but I really like yours.

We know for a fact that at least one other angel enters the scene, and it seems likely that this angel should be either one of the Angiris Council or Inarius. Out of all the members of the Council, Imperius is the most likely to show, since he has the strongest personality.

Thanks, I hope other people can put some input into the discussion especially more people who have read the book.

Maybe I can get a sticky if enough people think its plausible. :)

Atrumentis said:

Edit: Sorry but, that symbol is meant to denote official threads. As much as I like your theory, this thread isn't really for 'official' or collective discussion. Not yet, anyway.

Didn't know what the symbol meant. Sorry, just thought it made it stand out more. :P

[Veltras]

You got good eyes and a good memory. This somewhat makes sense because this angel is a lot shinier than Tyrael and yet doesn't seem to fit the description of the other members of the Council.

Still I think the symbol on his chest could be just a cross and not a sword, but heck what does it have to do with anything anyway.

[Atrumentis]

I fixed the image for you.

And here's some quotes straight from The Veiled Prophet:

Quote

THERE IS NO NEED FOR THIS DEBATE TO CONTINUE....OR TO HAVE EVEN BEGUN, declared a majestic angel with robes of royal red and a shining breastplate upon which the image of an upturned sword blazed. THE PATH IS OBVIOUS....WHAT HAS BEEN WROUGHT BY THE TRAITOR MUST BE UNDONE! LET THE HOST FINISH WHAT IT BEGAN, EVEN IF WE MUST CUT THROUGH A HUNDRED RANKS OF DEMONS TO ACCOMPLISH IT!

Quote

FROM HIS CRIMES WAS THIS ABOMINATION CALLED SANCTUARY CREATED! JUDGE ONE, AND YOU RIGHTLY JUDGE THEM BOTH!

Quote

I SAY THAT THE RENEGADE MUST BE FOREVER IMPRISONED AND HIS NEST OF DEMON-SPAWN ERADICATED!

Quote

[Talking to Tyrael]
WELL, OLD FRIEND? asked Imperius. HOW WILL YOU CHOOSE, YOU WHO HAVE SEEN THEM AT THEIR MOST FOUL? WILL YOU VOTE WITH ME AND PUT AN END TO THIS MOST HEINOUS OF SPAWNING GROUNDS?

[Daemaro]

Atrumentis said:

I fixed the image for you.

And here's some quotes straight from The Veiled Prophet:

Thanks, I think this is a pretty solid theory, and it makes more sense than Tyrael becoming corrupted I think. I mean Imperius already hated Sanctuary.

Feel free to add those quotes into the opening post if you want, more people will see it that way.

Anyway I'm off to bed, hope for more input from people when I wake up. :)

[Ralsu]

Daemaro said:

Thanks, I think this is a pretty solid theory, and it makes more sense than Tyrael becoming corrupted I think. I mean Imperius already hated Sanctuary.

Absolutely. I have been saying this for days. As you note, Imperius loathes Sanctuary because he, like half of the Angiris Council, sees humans only as the "get of demons." Humans defy the order that Heaven wishes to rule existence.

Even Tyrael only voted to save humanity because he was fascinated by the human propensity to choose order instead of acting under the angelic compulsion to impose order.

[Archanum]

I gotta say...great theory. :thumbsup:

The Tyrael is corrupt theory was really starting to wear on me...I know its still speculation at this point but I doubt if thats the way the developers decided to take the plot direction...

This theory on the other hand makes ALOT of sense and seems very practical.

Imperius always stuck out to me when reading the books and it would be badass to see him in-game. Maybe the angel that is on the front of the diablo 3 website isn't Tyrael...but in fact Imperius?? i don't know, I'll have to go back and look at it more closely.

But if I were to imagine any angel falling in a fiery manner it would be Imperius, with his fiery temper.

[Raven Master]

I have been thinking that there is another angel ever since I saw the D3 official site, but didn't knew the lore (didn't read the books) and couldn't back it up. This fits like a glove.

[Archanum]

Lets try and develop this alittle further....

We know that angels can't stay in sanctuary for long (Act 3 cinematic of D2 when Tyrael says that the power that holds him to Sanctuary is fading fast and he can't stay)...so how is it that Imperius could come to Sanctuary and stay while retaining power?

That is what the soulstones did for the Prime Evils... They allowed them to anchor to the mortal plane and retain great amounts of power

Any ideas on how Imperius could do this? Maybe a shard from the Worldstone? Or maybe it isn't needed any longer since the Worldstone is destroyed?

[blizter]

Archanum said:

Lets try and develop this alittle further....

We know that angels can't stay in sanctuary for long (Act 3 cinematic of D2 when Tyrael says that the power that holds him to Sanctuary is fading fast and he can't stay)...so how is it that Imperius could come to Sanctuary and stay while retaining power?

That is what the soulstones did for the Prime Evils... They allowed them to anchor to the mortal plane and retain great amounts of power

Any ideas on how Imperius could do this? Maybe a shard from the Worldstone? Or maybe it isn't needed any longer since the Worldstone is destroyed?

He can do it because the worldstone was destroyed.

[Archanum]

blizter said:

He can do it because the worldstone was destroyed.

How do you know this? Sources?

Or is this just speculation?

[Ralsu]

Archanum said:

How do you know this? Sources?

Or is this just speculation?

It's in the Sin War triliogy. The Worldstone shields Sanctuary from angels and demons alike. With it gone, the world lays open. This is why Cain was convinced a demonic invasion would begin the moment the Worldstone was destroyed. Instead, 20 years have passed...

[Archanum]

Ralsu said:

It's in the Sin War triliogy. The Worldstone shields Sanctuary from angels and demons alike. With it gone, the world lays open. This is why Cain was convinced a demonic invasion would begin the moment the Worldstone was destroyed. Instead, 20 years have passed...

“What it means is thus; in addition to secreting this realm, the Worldstone also began a steady and subtle dampening process. Each succeeding generation of nephalem became far less powerful than the previous, until, in very short order, those next born were bereft of any ability. Soon, only a few from the first generation—myself and Bul-Kathos, to name the obvious—survived. The gifts—or curse—of our forebears was forgotten. Inarius began reshaping Sanctuary to his satisfaction…and to his iron rule.”


Thats a quote directly from the Sin War....

See my impression was always more that the Worldstone hid Sanctuary from Heaven/Hell instead of actually making a barrier. Inarius made the Worldstone to make it harder to see/get into. So with it destroyed you could see Sanctuary clearly now from Heaven/Hell and get into it easier, but once there I would think it would still have the same affect of needing some sort of anchor to retain power there. We know that even Inarius needed this anchor (his was the Worldstone)

[Ralsu]

Point taken. I just assumed that whatever magic the Worldstone used to obscure Sanctuary made it necessary to continually expend energy to remain in the world.

It's hard to articulate my idea because we normally move in 3D. But I am talking a 5th dimension (assuming the 4th is time). It's not like Sanctuary is a place with physical relativity to Hell. It's more of a dminesional thing. And whereas we think of the physical energy needed to walk from our houses to the store, the celestial forces some expend magical energy in order to maintain a presence in Sanctuary. With the Worldstone gone, the path is easier to find and requires less energy and concentration.

[Daemaro]

Ralsu said:

Point taken. I just assumed that whatever magic the Worldstone used to obscure Sanctuary made it necessary to continually expend energy to remain in the world.

It's hard to articulate my idea because we normally move in 3D. But I am talking a 5th dimension (assuming the 4th is time). It's not like Sanctuary is a place with physical relativity to Hell. It's more of a dminesional thing. And whereas we think of the physical energy needed to walk from our houses to the store, the celestial forces some expend magical energy in order to maintain a presence in Sanctuary. With the Worldstone gone, the path is easier to find and requires less energy and concentration.

That's kind of what I think too. With the worldstone gone demons and angels can find sanctuary a lot easier and will probably have less trouble sticking around.

[Archanum]

Ralsu said:

Point taken. I just assumed that whatever magic the Worldstone used to obscure Sanctuary made it necessary to continually expend energy to remain in the world.

It's hard to articulate my idea because we normally move in 3D. But I am talking a 5th dimension (assuming the 4th is time). It's not like Sanctuary is a place with physical relativity to Hell. It's more of a dminesional thing. And whereas we think of the physical energy needed to walk from our houses to the store, the celestial forces some expend magical energy in order to maintain a presence in Sanctuary. With the Worldstone gone, the path is easier to find and requires less energy and concentration.

Good point. Because we do know that it took a considerable amount of Diablo, Mephisto, and Baal's power just to get to Sanctuary in the first place, this probably had something to do with Inarius making it hard to find with the Worldstone. So if we assume that, then all the Worldstone was doing was keeping it hard to find.

But I didn't think about the dimensional aspect of it. We know that angels can access Hell easily and demons can access Heaven easily. But this can be explained in that they are on the same dimension as each other. Sanctuary on the other hand, is not. So the question is, "Is the worldstone what kept it hard for angels/demons to stay powerful on Sanctuary, or is it the fact that it is on an entirely different dimension?"

I would tend to side on the side of saying that the Worldstone doesn't affect the ability to retain power on the mortal plane. I mean, after all, look at what Sanctuary was built for in the first place....a place for those demons and angels that wanted out of the Great Conflict. That was Inarius' and Lilith's intention when making Sanctuary/Worldstone. It doesn't make sense that they would make the Worldstone take away the ability of angels or demons to stay there. I believe its first purpose was simply to hide Sanctuary from those in Heaven and Hell that they didn't want there. Then when the nephalem became an issue Inarius started to change the Worldstone to keep humans from realizing their power.

[Ralsu]

Archanum said:

look at what Sanctuary was built for in the first place....a place for those demons and angels that wanted out of the Great Conflict. That was Inarius' and Lilith's intention when making Sanctuary/Worldstone. It doesn't make sense that they would make the Worldstone take away the ability of angels or demons to stay there. I believe its first purpose was simply to hide Sanctuary from those in Heaven and Hell that they didn't want there. Then when the nephalem became an issue Inarius started to change the Worldstone to keep humans from realizing their power.

Yeah, but help me out here (too lazy to go grab my novels at the moment)...

Didn't Inarius create the Worldstone after the the demons and angels who spawned them began to get jealous and resentful of the nephelem? I mean, wasn't there some squabble where Inarius realized that his new creation would be dragged into the middle and he decided to just keep it for himself?

I'll go get the books and read up a bit.

[Archanum]

Ralsu said:

Yeah, but help me out here (too lazy to go grab my novels at the moment)...

Didn't Inarius create the Worldstone after the the demons and angels who spawned them began to get jealous and resentful of the nephelem? I mean, wasn't there some squabble where Inarius realized that his new creation would be dragged into the middle and he decided to just keep it for himself?

I'll go get the books and read up a bit.

Hmm...sounds familiar...I'm at work now :P (obviously not doing my job)...but I'll have to look into that later...sounds right though...

[Daemaro]

So do you think the meteor was Imperius himself, or Tyrael being cast out of heaven by Imperius?