15 replies to this topic

[Komie]

I have two questions, the first question will determine if the second question is even relevant.

#1. I read a while ago that magic find increases the quality of the drop, not the quantity of drops. When I first read this, I thought to myself "So it increases the quality, so you get more ilvl 63 items instead of ilvl 58-62."

But now I'm kind of confused, does magic find increase the quality in relation to the ilvl of the gear? Or does it actually give you a higher chance of having better stat rolls on items?


#2. If the answer to number one is "magic find only increases the ilvl of the gear that drops, NOT giving you better stat rolls on an item."... Then is it time to look into revamping magic find since Monster Power has been introduced.

My reasoning: If monster power 1 makes all monsters level 63, and all of those monsters have a high chance of dropping ilvl 63 items, then what does more magic find do? Increase the chances of getting an ilvl 63 item off a mob that is already going to drop an ilvl 63 item? Doesn't make much sense. So should magic find be adjusted to give you better stat rolls instead of increasing the ilvl of the gear that drops?


Then again, I could be completely wrong on all of this, in which case, this post is pretty much invalid and pointless, sorry if that's the case.

[Bagstone]

How does it work?

http://www.diablofan...stical-insight/

All your questions will be answered by reading this. Absolutely everything :-)

To sum 1st question up:

-It increases quality of the drop because whenever an item drops, the system rolls if it's legendary/6-affix rare/5-affix rare/ 4-affix rare/blue. Higher MF leads to higher chance of rare/leg, leads to better drops and therefore "more rares" on average. The amount of drops will be the same (exception: bonus item with monster power), but you'll get more crap like tomes, gold piles, blues etc. and therefore "less items".

-With regard to stat rolls, magic find has no influence when it comes to most drops, with the exception of the extra item from NV5 drops. See magic find thread.

2nd question:

-MP1 and higher makes all monsters level 63, thus all stats can roll up to level 63. However, the roll is still random and magic find has no influence (!) except for the bonus item from NV5 drop (!), again, see magic find thread for details.

-What does MP1+ give you? Well, bonus XP, bonus item, and more magic find. The effect is huge. And making all rolls based on monster level, i.e., level 63, makes all items worthwhile to pick up, because base armor/damage is not that important compared to possible 63 stat rolls.

One could say that MP/MF should also increase the chance for better stat rolls, however, given how many good items are out there and how many legendaries you can get if you farm with maximum efficiency, it would just flood the market even more (and those who struggle because they have low MF/farm speed wouldn't get any benefit, either). It would just widen the gap.

Edited by Bagstone, 13 December 2012 - 10:40 PM.

[Conkasel]

I am also confused how the MF works regarding legendaries as I struggle to get any legendary while i hear other players get 1-2 every so often (i.e every hour???). Is MF capped at 300? So if i get NP 5 at MP2 with base MF200 and MF is subsequently 300 is all I need for maximum legendary drop?
My profile
eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Conkasel-2494/hero/8705436
Any suggestions welcome in how I could optimize my legendary/rare item drop
Thanks

[Bagstone]

Conkasel, on 13 December 2012 - 10:54 PM, said:

I am also confused how the MF works regarding legendaries as I struggle to get any legendary while i hear other players get 1-2 every so often (i.e every hour???). Is MF capped at 300? So if i get NP 5 at MP2 with base MF200 and MF is subsequently 300 is all I need for maximum legendary drop?
My profile
eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Conkasel-2494/hero/8705436
Any suggestions welcome in how I could optimize my legendary/rare item drop
Thanks

MF cap from gear, follower (counts 20%), shrines, paragon is capped at 300.
Add NV5 and monster power => maximum of 625 MF (MP10 NV5 when capped).

1-2 legendaries per hour is a rough AVERAGE if you're MF capped and extremely fast and efficient. "Efficiency" entails a long discussion that you can read in many threads, but essentially you're most efficient on the lowest MP level where you can breeze through mobs and kill everything "almost instantly", i.e., you're not standing for a few seconds and shooting at white mobs. However, it's really just an AVERAGE, which means even extremely efficient farmers have dry spells of many hours without a legendary, and then you might get extremely lucky and get a bunch of legendaries within a few minutes.

With your gear my guess is that MP2 is probably the sweet spot where you're most efficient, but maybe someone who plays DH as a main can specify. Paragon 28 is still quite low. You can compensate by buying MF gear, however, I would recommend to go full DPS and bonus XP. Put a ruby in your helm socket, get a Hellfire Ring and if you have the money a Leoric's Signet (you can also put them on your follower if you don't play in a group). Give your followers amulet, ring, weapon with MF (Grand Vizier on Enchantress, Sunkeeper on Templar plus MF on shield). Try to get to higher paragon levels and you'll find a lot more legendaries. However, even at 60 or 70 you can still have several runs without a legendary - it's really just "an average". Always keep in mind: it's RNG, and RNG can be cruel sometimes.

[Komie]

Bagstone, thank you very much for all this information.

You're awesome! +1 intranets to you sir/ma'am

[IlIllIlI]

Wrong, MF increases the chance to get more affixes on item and chance to find legendaries.
So MF does not increases chance to find rare items but it can sometimes turn magic item into rare.

Edited by IlIllIlI, 14 December 2012 - 06:41 AM.

[Punkskelm]

Just an example, i normally play mp8 and i get a legie drop now and then, last night i thought ok for fun i just want to farm some xp for paragon mp2, i did 7 runs in eah run i got 1 leggie and in 2 of them i got 2 and each run i do is about 20 mins. So it is all really just luck i say. RNG

[thundersteele]

Komie, on 13 December 2012 - 10:25 PM, said:

Then again, I could be completely wrong on all of this, in which case, this post is pretty much invalid and pointless, sorry if that's the case.

Unfortunately you are.

[komoto77]

It's time to completly remove it from the game

[Cryomatic]

IlIllIlI, on 14 December 2012 - 06:36 AM, said:

Wrong, MF increases the chance to get more affixes on item and chance to find legendaries.
So MF does not increases chance to find rare items but it can sometimes turn magic item into rare.

wrong, mf does increase chance to find rare items

MF doesnt get you more loots
MF make you get better loot quality (wich result in white goin to blue, blue goin to rare, rare to rare with more affixes, and some rare into legendary and some legendary into set)
you wont get more drop neither higher item lvl per drop, you will feel you get more loots since you will end getting more rare/legendary out of all the loots and yes mf increase the quantity of affixes but not the value of affixes

[Conkasel]

Bagstone, on 13 December 2012 - 11:02 PM, said:

Conkasel, on 13 December 2012 - 10:54 PM, said:

I am also confused how the MF works regarding legendaries as I struggle to get any legendary while i hear other players get 1-2 every so often (i.e every hour???). Is MF capped at 300? So if i get NP 5 at MP2 with base MF200 and MF is subsequently 300 is all I need for maximum legendary drop?
My profile
eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Conkasel-2494/hero/8705436
Any suggestions welcome in how I could optimize my legendary/rare item drop
Thanks

MF cap from gear, follower (counts 20%), shrines, paragon is capped at 300.
Add NV5 and monster power => maximum of 625 MF (MP10 NV5 when capped).

1-2 legendaries per hour is a rough AVERAGE if you're MF capped and extremely fast and efficient. "Efficiency" entails a long discussion that you can read in many threads, but essentially you're most efficient on the lowest MP level where you can breeze through mobs and kill everything "almost instantly", i.e., you're not standing for a few seconds and shooting at white mobs. However, it's really just an AVERAGE, which means even extremely efficient farmers have dry spells of many hours without a legendary, and then you might get extremely lucky and get a bunch of legendaries within a few minutes.

With your gear my guess is that MP2 is probably the sweet spot where you're most efficient, but maybe someone who plays DH as a main can specify. Paragon 28 is still quite low. You can compensate by buying MF gear, however, I would recommend to go full DPS and bonus XP. Put a ruby in your helm socket, get a Hellfire Ring and if you have the money a Leoric's Signet (you can also put them on your follower if you don't play in a group). Give your followers amulet, ring, weapon with MF (Grand Vizier on Enchantress, Sunkeeper on Templar plus MF on shield). Try to get to higher paragon levels and you'll find a lot more legendaries. However, even at 60 or 70 you can still have several runs without a legendary - it's really just "an average". Always keep in mind: it's RNG, and RNG can be cruel sometimes.

Thanks a lot you have been really helpful
I have indeed grand vizier and High MF ammy/rings on Enchantress
I still was getting confused what was the cap of 300 accounting for
Thanks again for your suggestions

[tywald]

IlIllIlI, on 14 December 2012 - 06:36 AM, said:

Wrong, MF increases the chance to get more affixes on item and chance to find legendaries.
So MF does not increases chance to find rare items but it can sometimes turn magic item into rare.

Cryomatic, on 14 December 2012 - 09:45 AM, said:

wrong, mf does increase chance to find rare items

MF doesnt get you more loots
MF make you get better loot quality (wich result in white goin to blue, blue goin to rare, rare to rare with more affixes, and some rare into legendary and some legendary into set)
you wont get more drop neither higher item lvl per drop, you will feel you get more loots since you will end getting more rare/legendary out of all the loots and yes mf increase the quantity of affixes but not the value of affixes

I don't believe it turns "blue" items into rare. I believe this: An item drop (it has no color, it has yet to be determined) then the system rolls the quality in order, if it rolls true then it gains that specific quality.
Scenario:
An axe is about to drop, it has no quality yet->system rolls with base chance times your MF (ie: 0.04*1.6 for 6affix rare(just made up))(4% basechance times your 60% increase in MF)
Legendary? Failed, continue down the list.
6affix rare? Failed again, continue down the list.
5affix rare? OK -> the axe drops from the monster as rare with 5affixes.

This is what I believe how an item get its quality, if it's wrong just tell me

Edited by tywald, 15 December 2012 - 09:56 AM.

[reportcopy]

how does ti work?

[Bojer]

It works as follows (or very close to it):

• When a monster is slain, there is a roll determining whether there is an item drop or not. (MF is not in consideration here)

• Next up. If there is a roll positive for an item drop, it is determined whether the drop is an item, gold, potion, gem, tome etc. (still no MF check in this roll)

• If the drop turns out to consist of an item, then the item will go through a checklist of possible rolls. The checklist is always in the same order; legendary -> rare -> white -> gray, and the roll is conducted with respect to that. So if the roll turns out to be a legendary item quality, then the item will drop as a legendary, but if not, the roll will determine if it is a 6 property rare and so forth until the item can only be gray of quality. This roll is affected by MF - and now three different setups to illustrate this:

• at 0% MF, the chance for the item rolling as a (using made up numbers)
  
  • Legendary: 0,000001 [ chance' = chance * (1 + MF) ]
    
  • 6-affix rare: 0,00001
    
  • 5-affix rare: 0,0001
    
  • 4-affix rare: 0,001
    
  • blue: 0,01
    
  • empowered white: 0,05
    
  • white: 0,1
    
  • gray: 1

• at 150% MF, the chance for the item rolling as a (using made up numbers)
  
  • Legendary: 0,0000025
    
  • 6-affix rare: 0,000025
    
  • 5-affix rare: 0,00025
    
  • 4-affix rare: 0,0025
    
  • blue: 0,025
    
  • empowered white: 0,125
    
  • white: 0,25
    
  • gray: 1

• at 300% MF, the chance for the item rolling as a (using made up numbers)
  
  • Legendary: 0,000004
    
  • 6-affix rare: 0,00004
    
  • 5-affix rare: 0,0004
    
  • 4-affix rare: 0,004
    
  • blue: 0,04
    
  • empowered white: 0,2
    
  • white: 0,4
    
  • gray: 1

This means that MF affects the quality of the drop once the drop has been granted. Also given high MF more loot is not dropped, nor does high MF affect the types affixes and their range - that's RNG I suppose. This is all explained in the earlier posts as well.. and in the post Bagstone refers to.

EDIT: Of course I forgot to mention that the drop chances are purely fictional... made up from thin air.. voila!

Edited by Bojer, 17 December 2012 - 05:58 PM.

[Number1337]

Magnets...

[Syronicus]

IlIllIlI, on 14 December 2012 - 06:36 AM, said:

Wrong, MF increases the chance to get more affixes on item and chance to find legendaries.
So MF does not increases chance to find rare items but it can sometimes turn magic item into rare.

If MF has the chance to turn a magic item into a rare item then wouldn't that be the same as MF increasing your chance to find a rare item? Just sayin'....