110 replies to this topic

[Temsen]

Zeyk23, on 09 December 2012 - 11:48 PM, said:

http://d3db.com/npc/i/fallen-prophet

Unless this data is wrong, but I haven't seen any concrete evidence to the contrary.

Uh, I wouldn't trust that site.

And here, have a blue post.

[Huminator]

As i said ages ago. All mobs in acr are lvl 63. And therefor you do not need to run mp1... Mp0 does to job and its a job well done. Its the most efficient monster power to get both xp and loot. The only exception is an archon wizard. Barbs highest xp spec perform best at mp0 aswell (an no, its not ww).

[Westy357]

MP 0 and MP 1 aren't very good. If you have decent gear MP2 is (imho) best as I get good stuff and can move along at a decent pace. MP 3 I have done that (solo) but just for getting 5 stacks and keys.

I know I know others will say "oh, I run this and that bla bla bla..", but MP 2 is pretty good I think.

[Huminator]

Westy357, on 10 December 2012 - 08:38 AM, said:

MP 0 and MP 1 aren't very good. If you have decent gear MP2 is (imho) best as I get good stuff and can move along at a decent pace. MP 3 I have done that (solo) but just for getting 5 stacks and keys.

I know I know others will say "oh, I run this and that bla bla bla..", but MP 2 is pretty good I think.

You could not be more wrong. But its a common missconception.

[baron01]

I agree that quick and painless clearing on low MP (0-1-2) is the key to effective EXP and loot farming.

I just have a comment to a statement made earlier in this topic that EXP/hour and amount of loot goes hand in hand. This statement is surely not true for me. The reason is that when I feel like grinding EXP I lower MP to 0, change my build and move non-stop. I will pick only Archon stuff, ilvl62 and 63 weapons, rings and amulets and any gloves. When I play on MP1 and do extended Alkaizer runs, I need to clear my inventory at least once before finishing the run. When Im on fast EXP MP0 grinding, I do pure Alkaizer runs but I need to clear my inventory maybe once in 3 clears.
I can also vouche that legendary map ping announcement only works when you are close to the drop location. I had several legendary items dropped outside of my view, I have heard the sound but did not see any ping on the map. It happened to me twice yesterday.

[againstme]

The only times I've gotten an item that's even sold for over 10m+ have been in high MP's while either farming keys or doing ubers.

But I still loot farm on lower MP's.

[Richtko]

i think the obvious answer is whats best for you depends on what level you can clear efficiently. For me MP0 is a complete waste of time, MP1 is better but still slow, MP2 is probably my sweet spot as far as speed if I wanted exp farm.
From the loot pov i prefer MP4 simply because the time it takes to clear is only marginally higher but the loot is much much better.

[Kissmyaxe]

I have about average gear for a DH (180k DPS with Archery) and although I can do MP up to 5 at a decent pace, anything above MP1 feels way too slow.
For farming, either XP or loot, MP0-1 are the best, especially for legendaries. Since legendary quality is not affected by MF, lower MPs are better, period.

I suggest you focus on your paragon levels until you get to 80+, at which point your MF should be high enough to start getting decent drops on a regular basis.
If you check the people streaming, everyone is getting about 15-30 legendaries per day, depending on how much they actually farm, so MF is quite important.

[xaimx]

For me, it definitely feels like I see many more legendaries/hour farming at MP8 than I do at 1-3. XP wise farming on high mp is bad, but Honestly I'm not that concerned about leveling anymore on my barb since I'm at 89...I just don't feel like the +3mf/gfstr/2 vit is worth it anymore given the amount of time it takes to level. With 200% extra MF and 80% chance of getting an extra drop from monsters, coupled with the rate at which I am able to kill them (white mobs die in 1-2 hits...100% CC on HotA:Smash ftw), MP8 feels much more rewarding to me than MP0-2. This is a conclusion that I came to after many hours farming on both difficulties.

IMO, there is no black and white answer about where and what MP you should be farming on. It comes down to build/gear/personal preference.

Edited by xaimx, 11 December 2012 - 09:23 AM.

[Huminator]

You feel what you want to feel. Can't use feelings for anything. Pure numbers all favour the low mp levels.

[orangedrop]

Huminator, on 09 December 2012 - 08:40 AM, said:

CherubDown, on 09 December 2012 - 07:42 AM, said:

Also, MP0 is much worse on loot, so I go minimum MP1.

Don't spread false information please.

its not false information. act 1 and 2 aside on mp0, I had ran a dozen of test mp0 and mp1 act 3. the rare count is higher on mp1. in mp0 u get 1-2 rare per elite minimum where on mp1 u get 2-3, very rarely u will only get 1 like in mp0.

strangely enough on my test run. mp0 keeps dropping plans for some reason. I had 6-7 totals in 10 mp0 runs and only 2-3 on mp1. legendaries are pretty even, I actually got more in mp0 but the difference is so minimal that it people shouldn't read so much into it.

[xaimx]

Huminator, on 11 December 2012 - 10:08 AM, said:

You feel what you want to feel. Can't use feelings for anything. Pure numbers all favour the low mp levels.

Feel free to bring some numbers to the discussion, then. Until you do, you are just stating opinion, just like me. Just saying "Nope you are wrong and I'm right" isn't productive conversation. What may be true for one class and build with particular gear will not be true for all. I definitely find more legendaries at high MP than at low MP with my barb, and that is based on my personal experience.

XP/hour and Item drops/hour do not have the same relationship when compared to monster power levels. Experience is certainly more efficient at low levels, but the number of drops I get, and their quality on higher monster power is very evident to me.

Edited by xaimx, 11 December 2012 - 11:53 AM.

[Bagstone]

orangedrop, on 11 December 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

Huminator, on 09 December 2012 - 08:40 AM, said:

CherubDown, on 09 December 2012 - 07:42 AM, said:

Also, MP0 is much worse on loot, so I go minimum MP1.

Don't spread false information please.

its not false information. act 1 and 2 aside on mp0, I had ran a dozen of test mp0 and mp1 act 3. the rare count is higher on mp1. in mp0 u get 1-2 rare per elite minimum where on mp1 u get 2-3, very rarely u will only get 1 like in mp0.

strangely enough on my test run. mp0 keeps dropping plans for some reason. I had 6-7 totals in 10 mp0 runs and only 2-3 on mp1. legendaries are pretty even, I actually got more in mp0 but the difference is so minimal that it people shouldn't read so much into it.

MP1 has 1% chance of dropping an additional rare, so your estimate of 1-2 rares (MP0) vs 2-3 rares (MP1) is simply not true, it's - like Huminator says - spreading false information, based on luck/subjective perception/whatever.

One more time: read the magic find thread. If you think there's something wrong, do a proper test yourself (collecting lots of data and not just a dozen of runs, and keep track of all numbers accordingly and not "1-2 vs 2-3 drops"). But don't spread false information.

Your second paragraph makes it look even more ridiculous - the numbers you properly counted are contradicting your theory, but that's supposed to be luck, so "don't read so much into it". Hilarious.

[orangedrop]

Bagstone, on 11 December 2012 - 12:09 PM, said:

orangedrop, on 11 December 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

Huminator, on 09 December 2012 - 08:40 AM, said:

CherubDown, on 09 December 2012 - 07:42 AM, said:

Also, MP0 is much worse on loot, so I go minimum MP1.

Don't spread false information please.

its not false information. act 1 and 2 aside on mp0, I had ran a dozen of test mp0 and mp1 act 3. the rare count is higher on mp1. in mp0 u get 1-2 rare per elite minimum where on mp1 u get 2-3, very rarely u will only get 1 like in mp0.

strangely enough on my test run. mp0 keeps dropping plans for some reason. I had 6-7 totals in 10 mp0 runs and only 2-3 on mp1. legendaries are pretty even, I actually got more in mp0 but the difference is so minimal that it people shouldn't read so much into it.

MP1 has 1% chance of dropping an additional rare, so your estimate of 1-2 rares (MP0) vs 2-3 rares (MP1) is simply not true, it's - like Huminator says - spreading false information, based on luck/subjective perception/whatever.

One more time: read the magic find thread. If you think there's something wrong, do a proper test yourself (collecting lots of data and not just a dozen of runs, and keep track of all numbers accordingly and not "1-2 vs 2-3 drops"). But don't spread false information.

Your second paragraph makes it look even more ridiculous - the numbers you properly counted are contradicting your theory, but that's supposed to be luck, so "don't read so much into it". Hilarious.

i did collect the data yes it is only a dozen of runs. but where is your proof that all these are false information? I had to at least made an extra run to town to ID and clear out the bags on mp1 consistently, i pick up all items. All my runs are consistent, keep 1-3, the two towers, core of arreat, and the cave in field of slaughter. unless I keep getting goblins on mp1 my data suggest mp1 drops more rare quality loot, no i didnt count the goblins, each run should have 1 chest on ice cavern/cavern of frost, maybe another one in keep depth 1 or 2. Perhaps I should record how many elites as well in each run. But from just item count and observation I still concludes mp1 is better than mp0.

I am curious where you get the 1% additional rare comes from too, have you run the test yourself? is that posted on official guide? mf has been proven again and again that it doesn't yield additional items, before paragon was introduced a extensive goblin run was tested. 200 over runs and the total drop number is relatively the same, regardless of 0% 100% 200% mf, just u get more rares and blues as your mf move up. blizzard has listed this on official game guide too, mf merely bumping up the quality of items, so more blues/whites can be yellow but the number of items drop would be relatively the same. again i farm keys on mp 6-7. without full stack, elites consistently chuck 2-4 rares please do not tell me that merely coincidence and I should stop spreading false rumor? go try it yourself~ you will be lucky to see 2-3 rares on mp0 without full stack, same with chest and goblins. go open or kill them before full stack on mp0 and all you see are mostly blue. do it on higher mp u can see at least 1.

contradicting the number of my count? on what? the legendary or the plan? regarding the plan. the test were done back to back. all mp0 10 times, plan just keep dropping, yes I counted this as rares. I bet some of you has the same experience, rings keep dropping when usually u havent seen one in awhile, back to back runs with exact same legendary drop. how can that be RNG? when there is sooo many legendary to drop and u get multiple ones on the same day.

as for the legendary in 10 runs mp0 yield me 5 legendary, mp1 yield 3. the difference is only 2 in 10 runs thats why i said you should not read into it. but mp1 consistently yield me 1/2-1 bag of rares. I ran mp3 farm the previous weeks, again i observe mp3 consistently more yellow drop compared to mp0 from each elite, goblin and chest. And runnings those 20 runs actually yield me more legendaries than farming mp3 all week the week before if you want to use that against me. But speaking purely yellows mp0 yield less on my runs.

[ForbiddenAngel]

orangedrop, on 11 December 2012 - 05:02 PM, said:

Bagstone, on 11 December 2012 - 12:09 PM, said:

orangedrop, on 11 December 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

Huminator, on 09 December 2012 - 08:40 AM, said:

CherubDown, on 09 December 2012 - 07:42 AM, said:

Also, MP0 is much worse on loot, so I go minimum MP1.

Don't spread false information please.

its not false information. act 1 and 2 aside on mp0, I had ran a dozen of test mp0 and mp1 act 3. the rare count is higher on mp1. in mp0 u get 1-2 rare per elite minimum where on mp1 u get 2-3, very rarely u will only get 1 like in mp0.

strangely enough on my test run. mp0 keeps dropping plans for some reason. I had 6-7 totals in 10 mp0 runs and only 2-3 on mp1. legendaries are pretty even, I actually got more in mp0 but the difference is so minimal that it people shouldn't read so much into it.

MP1 has 1% chance of dropping an additional rare, so your estimate of 1-2 rares (MP0) vs 2-3 rares (MP1) is simply not true, it's - like Huminator says - spreading false information, based on luck/subjective perception/whatever.

One more time: read the magic find thread. If you think there's something wrong, do a proper test yourself (collecting lots of data and not just a dozen of runs, and keep track of all numbers accordingly and not "1-2 vs 2-3 drops"). But don't spread false information.

Your second paragraph makes it look even more ridiculous - the numbers you properly counted are contradicting your theory, but that's supposed to be luck, so "don't read so much into it". Hilarious.

i did collect the data yes it is only a dozen of runs. but where is your proof that all these are false information? I had to at least made an extra run to town to ID and clear out the bags on mp1 consistently, i pick up all items. All my runs are consistent, keep 1-3, the two towers, core of arreat, and the cave in field of slaughter. unless I keep getting goblins on mp1 my data suggest mp1 drops more rare quality loot, no i didnt count the goblins, each run should have 1 chest on ice cavern/cavern of frost, maybe another one in keep depth 1 or 2. Perhaps I should record how many elites as well in each run. But from just item count and observation I still concludes mp1 is better than mp0.

I am curious where you get the 1% additional rare comes from too, have you run the test yourself? is that posted on official guide? mf has been proven again and again that it doesn't yield additional items, before paragon was introduced a extensive goblin run was tested. 200 over runs and the total drop number is relatively the same, regardless of 0% 100% 200% mf, just u get more rares and blues as your mf move up. blizzard has listed this on official game guide too, mf merely bumping up the quality of items, so more blues/whites can be yellow but the number of items drop would be relatively the same. again i farm keys on mp 6-7. without full stack, elites consistently chuck 2-4 rares please do not tell me that merely coincidence and I should stop spreading false rumor? go try it yourself~ you will be lucky to see 2-3 rares on mp0 without full stack, same with chest and goblins. go open or kill them before full stack on mp0 and all you see are mostly blue. do it on higher mp u can see at least 1.

contradicting the number of my count? on what? the legendary or the plan? regarding the plan. the test were done back to back. all mp0 10 times, plan just keep dropping, yes I counted this as rares. I bet some of you has the same experience, rings keep dropping when usually u havent seen one in awhile, back to back runs with exact same legendary drop. how can that be RNG? when there is sooo many legendary to drop and u get multiple ones on the same day.

as for the legendary in 10 runs mp0 yield me 5 legendary, mp1 yield 3. the difference is only 2 in 10 runs thats why i said you should not read into it. but mp1 consistently yield me 1/2-1 bag of rares. I ran mp3 farm the previous weeks, again i observe mp3 consistently more yellow drop compared to mp0 from each elite, goblin and chest. And runnings those 20 runs actually yield me more legendaries than farming mp3 all week the week before if you want to use that against me. But speaking purely yellows mp0 yield less on my runs.

Dude, it is official. There was a picture of the chart of all the different MF, GF, Exp, and extra loot for each MP levels. MP 1 extra loot is only 1% more comparing to MP 0. I m not saying you are wrong, but you are just having a better streak in MP1...

[AudioCG]

MP0 or 1 with 300+ MF and Exp bonuses (from Hellfire and Helm) is by FAR the best farming method.

You need MP1 for Act 1 and 2 to bump up the loot to be like MP0 Act 3.

[iJimmy]

Ally25, on 10 December 2012 - 01:19 AM, said:

Set a goal of just ONE legendary today and I wasnt going to eat until I got it.  Been playing since my dog woke me up at 7am this morning to go outside.  Still havent eaten.  I will beat RNG eventually.

Respect!

Edited by iJimmy, 11 December 2012 - 05:45 PM.

[Syronicus]

Ally25, on 09 December 2012 - 12:30 AM, said:

Are these bad for loot or something?  Its the only thing I can do right now as I was on a budget to begin with.  In around 20 minutes as a TR monk I can do:

Core
Tower 1
Crater 2
Rakkis Backwards
Field of Slaughter + Cave...people skip cave for some reason but its always 2-3 elites, usually a goblin, and a resplendant and they are small as hell.
Keep 3... fast and 2-3 elites
Keep 2 till I hit a dead end unless I have fleeting then i circle back and clear the map
Skycrown backwards... up to 5 elites plus goblins


So Im usually getting 2-3 resplendants and 3-4 goblins per run and a ton of elites and Im paragon 25 and havent gotten a SINGLE legendary thats been to auction.  Hell havent even sold a rare for a million yet.  Its gonna take me till Diablo 4 is released to get 400-500 mil in gear so I can start doing MP 4-5.  I just dont know what Im doing wrong to get no loot.

How are people beating RNG and walking around with a billion in gold worth of gear.  I started at releases but quit for a while so probably played for a total of 4 months since the game went live.  In those 4 months I have probably made 100 million gold, 25 million of that is looted gold according to my stats, so at that rate it will take me 3 years to have a billion gold.  Yet people did it in 3 months.  I just dont understand.  I am online every day for 7-8 hours.  Is that not enough?  Should I be farming 12-15 hours a day?  Im putting in the effort so Im not like a bunch of whiney WoW crybabies that want free raid quality loot for no effort.  But Im not seeing the rewards for it.  Its like D3 is the total opposite of WoW.  You work your ass off for nothing and in WoW loot is thrown at you and you never have to leave town.  And they wonder why everyone quit.

It was when I hit paragon 50 that I started to really find a ton of good stuff. I hit a billion a couple times over and none of what I have sold was over 500 mil. Much of what I sell is 20, 30 and maybe 100 mil. In the end it all comes down to luck but I do feel that my luck just kicked in around paragon 50.

[Syronicus]

ForbiddenAngel, on 11 December 2012 - 05:07 PM, said:

orangedrop, on 11 December 2012 - 05:02 PM, said:

Bagstone, on 11 December 2012 - 12:09 PM, said:

orangedrop, on 11 December 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

Huminator, on 09 December 2012 - 08:40 AM, said:

CherubDown, on 09 December 2012 - 07:42 AM, said:

Also, MP0 is much worse on loot, so I go minimum MP1.

Don't spread false information please.

its not false information. act 1 and 2 aside on mp0, I had ran a dozen of test mp0 and mp1 act 3. the rare count is higher on mp1. in mp0 u get 1-2 rare per elite minimum where on mp1 u get 2-3, very rarely u will only get 1 like in mp0.

strangely enough on my test run. mp0 keeps dropping plans for some reason. I had 6-7 totals in 10 mp0 runs and only 2-3 on mp1. legendaries are pretty even, I actually got more in mp0 but the difference is so minimal that it people shouldn't read so much into it.

MP1 has 1% chance of dropping an additional rare, so your estimate of 1-2 rares (MP0) vs 2-3 rares (MP1) is simply not true, it's - like Huminator says - spreading false information, based on luck/subjective perception/whatever.

One more time: read the magic find thread. If you think there's something wrong, do a proper test yourself (collecting lots of data and not just a dozen of runs, and keep track of all numbers accordingly and not "1-2 vs 2-3 drops"). But don't spread false information.

Your second paragraph makes it look even more ridiculous - the numbers you properly counted are contradicting your theory, but that's supposed to be luck, so "don't read so much into it". Hilarious.

i did collect the data yes it is only a dozen of runs. but where is your proof that all these are false information? I had to at least made an extra run to town to ID and clear out the bags on mp1 consistently, i pick up all items. All my runs are consistent, keep 1-3, the two towers, core of arreat, and the cave in field of slaughter. unless I keep getting goblins on mp1 my data suggest mp1 drops more rare quality loot, no i didnt count the goblins, each run should have 1 chest on ice cavern/cavern of frost, maybe another one in keep depth 1 or 2. Perhaps I should record how many elites as well in each run. But from just item count and observation I still concludes mp1 is better than mp0.

I am curious where you get the 1% additional rare comes from too, have you run the test yourself? is that posted on official guide? mf has been proven again and again that it doesn't yield additional items, before paragon was introduced a extensive goblin run was tested. 200 over runs and the total drop number is relatively the same, regardless of 0% 100% 200% mf, just u get more rares and blues as your mf move up. blizzard has listed this on official game guide too, mf merely bumping up the quality of items, so more blues/whites can be yellow but the number of items drop would be relatively the same. again i farm keys on mp 6-7. without full stack, elites consistently chuck 2-4 rares please do not tell me that merely coincidence and I should stop spreading false rumor? go try it yourself~ you will be lucky to see 2-3 rares on mp0 without full stack, same with chest and goblins. go open or kill them before full stack on mp0 and all you see are mostly blue. do it on higher mp u can see at least 1.

contradicting the number of my count? on what? the legendary or the plan? regarding the plan. the test were done back to back. all mp0 10 times, plan just keep dropping, yes I counted this as rares. I bet some of you has the same experience, rings keep dropping when usually u havent seen one in awhile, back to back runs with exact same legendary drop. how can that be RNG? when there is sooo many legendary to drop and u get multiple ones on the same day.

as for the legendary in 10 runs mp0 yield me 5 legendary, mp1 yield 3. the difference is only 2 in 10 runs thats why i said you should not read into it. but mp1 consistently yield me 1/2-1 bag of rares. I ran mp3 farm the previous weeks, again i observe mp3 consistently more yellow drop compared to mp0 from each elite, goblin and chest. And runnings those 20 runs actually yield me more legendaries than farming mp3 all week the week before if you want to use that against me. But speaking purely yellows mp0 yield less on my runs.

Dude, it is official. There was a picture of the chart of all the different MF, GF, Exp, and extra loot for each MP levels. MP 1 extra loot is only 1% more comparing to MP 0. I m not saying you are wrong, but you are just having a better streak in MP1...

This chart? The loot you speak of is the key drops and organ drops. The 1% does not include the drop rate for legendary items.

Edited by Syronicus, 11 December 2012 - 06:04 PM.

[Emberos]

Yes, that chart -- note the small increase to XP and MF as compared to the large increase in Monster Health.  This is especially true if we consider we should enter the equation at max MF 300% and that much of our runs are done at 5 stacks 375%.  At that point, and extra 25% MF isn't that substantial when compared to the amount of extra time it takes to work through the increased Health.  If we play it out and extrapolate what those numbers mean on a macro scale instead of taking a very small sample size of our own individual experience to date (whatever that experience is), we will see the odds are not in our favor for higher MPs working out better in the long run.

This will hold true at least until either:

a ) Blizzard adjusts the values shown in this chart
b ) Gear inflation gets to a point that we are one-shotting all white mobs and killing elite packs in 2-3 seconds even at MP10

Neither of those circumstances look to be on the near horizon.

Edited by Emberos, 11 December 2012 - 06:26 PM.