203 replies to this topic

[RasAlgethi24]

Actually no, with my chanto set and BT ammy my dps drops by a lot in my CM set up.  I use to run Tal's chest and still Zuni's boots gave me more DPS than a 300 total intel ice climbers.  Tals' chest or Zuni's chest doesn't make  difference as Tal's 9 ias makes up for the 130 intel set bonus from Zuni's in my case.   It would take a 300+ total intel ice climbers to do more damage for me which is very expensive.

As for having both bosses together, yeah it helps.  With them in close range, multiple WW can hit both bosses at same time so your cool down is being reset quicker.

Edited by RasAlgethi24, 04 February 2013 - 06:36 PM.

[Aypnos]

Loroese, on 04 February 2013 - 05:02 AM, said:

Aypnos, on 04 February 2013 - 03:18 AM, said:

the link of char is http://eu.battle.net...85/hero/9034392

As an alternative to what Jaetch recommended, if you want to keep the high dps going, I'd replace your chanto set with a black dagger with IAS and socket and an APoC Triumvirate. If you get a dagger with 9% IAS or higher you'll stay above the 2.5 APS breakpoint which works just fine for farming, imo. That's the setup I'm running right now if you want to take a look for comparison, though I'm still trying to decide on an amulet. If you're really patient or lucky, you can try getting a dagger with Life Steal also, which would help your life gain a lot.

As for LoH, the recommendation is 800 LoH per 100k dps, so about 1600 LoH for you. Also, for MP10 I highly recommend 89-90% mitigation (5k armor and 800 resist = 89% mitigation). Then again, unless your running Ubers, I recommend dropping the MP to a level you can survive while using SA since it basically doubles your effective dps. For me that's around MP7-8, since I'm short 1k armor and 100 resist from my MP10 recommendation.

First of all,thank you for taking some time to reply Loroese,appreciate it
Do you think it would be ok to replace chant set with dagger on high ias and triumvirate?i ll drop down my apoc which is exactly 17 atm.just wondering...Also im trying to decide if i should get a unity with 8as which will give me about 10k dps but i ll drop on 700loh,and for farming i go easily on mp5,what i mentioned for mp10 its when i do ubers and key farming.
thank you in advance

[JKlimek]

^ If you trade out your APoC weapon for dps then you'll need to make up the APoC on your helm.  Stormcrow I believe it's called.  That means you're losing IAS on your helm too tho.  This is kind of the point that I'm suck at.

http://us.battle.net...37/hero/5121825

How do I get more DPS without losing A/S or forking over hundreds of millions on quadrifecta equipment?

[RasAlgethi24]

The problem with going with the dagger with ias method is that you can't get APOC here.  Which means you would have to use  a APOC helm (either a Stormcrow or rare).  You want at least 2 pieces with APOC.

I personally use the Stretch Time + 1.65 chanto+ 72 gear IAS method to get to 3aps.

[JKlimek]

I found I had a lot of problems with slow time because it greatly concentrates some enemies' attacks.  Lightning elites were terrible for my barbarian buddies but we also had problems with mag's fly attack which made it ultimately useless in the one uber fight you really wanted the IAS for.

[Aypnos]

RasAlgethi24, on 04 February 2013 - 06:38 PM, said:

The problem with going with the dagger with ias method is that you can't get APOC here.  Which means you would have to use  a APOC helm (either a Stormcrow or rare).  You want at least 2 pieces with APOC.

I personally use the Stretch Time + 1.65 chanto+ 72 gear IAS method to get to 3aps.

Exactly my point and as JKlimek says i have the same issue

Edited by Aypnos, 04 February 2013 - 06:56 PM.

[Loroese]

Aypnos, on 04 February 2013 - 06:28 PM, said:

First of all,thank you for taking some time to reply Loroese,appreciate it
Do you think it would be ok to replace chant set with dagger on high ias and triumvirate?i ll drop down my apoc which is exactly 17 atm.just wondering...Also im trying to decide if i should get a unity with 8as which will give me about 10k dps but i ll drop on 700loh,and for farming i go easily on mp5,what i mentioned for mp10 its when i do ubers and key farming.
thank you in advance

I seemed to have overlooked your helm IAS for some reason. If you swap your weapon for dagger, you'd have to swap your helm, which means that if you wanted to use a triumvirate you'd have to gain back the IAS somewhere, either from the amulet or zuni ring. You'd lose less crit from swapping the ring but should gain it back using a crit Storm Crow. You'd also gain some LoH from the SC, but at the cost of some EHP from the mempo, so it's really a huge balancing act. Basically, to hit 2.5 APS you need 51-53% IAS on gear and 11-9% IAS on a dagger, respectively.

[Aypnos]

Loroese, on 04 February 2013 - 07:04 PM, said:

Aypnos, on 04 February 2013 - 06:28 PM, said:

First of all,thank you for taking some time to reply Loroese,appreciate it
Do you think it would be ok to replace chant set with dagger on high ias and triumvirate?i ll drop down my apoc which is exactly 17 atm.just wondering...Also im trying to decide if i should get a unity with 8as which will give me about 10k dps but i ll drop on 700loh,and for farming i go easily on mp5,what i mentioned for mp10 its when i do ubers and key farming.
thank you in advance

I seemed to have overlooked your helm IAS for some reason. If you swap your weapon for dagger, you'd have to swap your helm, which means that if you wanted to use a triumvirate you'd have to gain back the IAS somewhere, either from the amulet or zuni ring. You'd lose less crit from swapping the ring but should gain it back using a crit Storm Crow. You'd also gain some LoH from the SC, but at the cost of some EHP from the mempo, so it's really a huge balancing act. Basically, to hit 2.5 APS you need 51-53% IAS on gear and 11-9% IAS on a dagger, respectively.

Thx again for ur tips Loroese i have 2.67 aps at the moment,enough hp(at least my opinion),and 43cc without the buffs,just 2 questions that i have if you can answer,should i swap my ring with loh for a unity gaining 10k dps about but loosing 100loh reaching to 700?is it worth it?cause unity's with 8as are about 120-150mil
Also should i just keep my gear as it is and just start to collect gold for the same ones but with higher dmg?thats what i was wondering... for example better vile wards,witching hour,better zuni with av dmg,also zuni boots all resist,tal rasha all resist?
thank you again in advance

Edited by Aypnos, 04 February 2013 - 07:22 PM.

[RasAlgethi24]

Yeah it does tend to make projectiles hit you all at once but even against Maghda I've never any issues and almost always run mp10.

Only issue I've had with slow time is against Act 2 keywarden.  It takes all his mortar attacks and focuses them on you (must be a bug).  I just don't use it against him.

But yeah, its a difficult balancing act to get to 3aps.  Other than the 1.66 dagger method, I would have to switch to inna's pants but I would lose so much ehp and LoH.

Edited by RasAlgethi24, 04 February 2013 - 07:24 PM.

[JKlimek]

The 1.66 dagger LOOKS to be a good alternative, but they are tricking you with the math.  Increased attack speed increases a percentage of your base speed.  The speed shown on your weapon with an IAS weapon has the % built in and will result in incorrect math.  The + attacks per second on echoing fury or chantodo's wand will result in a much higher actual attack/second base number.  With the daggers, you have to use 1.4 as your base whereas you can find a C wand with 1.65 base.  

Example:
Chandodo's wand with +0.25 a/s and 70% attack speed on other equipment will result in 2.805 a/s
a "1.66" a/s dagger with 70% attack speed on other equipment will only result in 2.6064 a/s
echoing fury with +0.25 a/s and 11% ias with 70% ias on other equipment will get you 2.6245

Edited by JKlimek, 04 February 2013 - 07:45 PM.

[RasAlgethi24]

Just playing with the damage calc and realized if I switched to a  higher dps 1.75 chanto (currently using a 1000 dps chanto w/socket) + magic weapon I wouldn't lose much dps even though I'd lose  a socket on the wand.  Then I can drop time warp.

edit:  I just realized force weapon has knock back so I'd have to use another rune or sparkflint.  I'd also lose the potential damage of higher dps chanto w/socket.  Seems like Im going in circles.

Edited by RasAlgethi24, 04 February 2013 - 08:23 PM.

[Loroese]

JKlimek, on 04 February 2013 - 07:42 PM, said:

The 1.66 dagger LOOKS to be a good alternative, but they are tricking you with the math.  Increased attack speed increases a percentage of your base speed.  The speed shown on your weapon with an IAS weapon has the % built in and will result in incorrect math.  The + attacks per second on echoing fury or chantodo's wand will result in a much higher actual attack/second base number.  With the daggers, you have to use 1.4 as your base whereas you can find a C wand with 1.65 base.  

Example:
Chandodo's wand with +0.25 a/s and 70% attack speed on other equipment will result in 2.805 a/s
a "1.66" a/s dagger with 70% attack speed on other equipment will only result in 2.6064 a/s
echoing fury with +0.25 a/s and 11% ias with 70% ias on other equipment will get you 2.6245

Dagger is 1.5 base, so a 11% IAS dagger is 1.665 APS which is higher than a chanto without IAS. A 1.66 (11%IAS) dagger with 70% IAS from gear is actually 2.83 APS, higher than the chanto.

[Loroese]

Aypnos, on 04 February 2013 - 07:18 PM, said:

Thx again for ur tips Loroese i have 2.67 aps at the moment,enough hp(at least my opinion),and 43cc without the buffs,just 2 questions that i have if you can answer,should i swap my ring with loh for a unity gaining 10k dps about but loosing 100loh reaching to 700?is it worth it?cause unity's with 8as are about 120-150mil
Also should i just keep my gear as it is and just start to collect gold for the same ones but with higher dmg?thats what i was wondering... for example better vile wards,witching hour,better zuni with av dmg,also zuni boots all resist,tal rasha all resist?
thank you again in advance

I'd be careful about losing LoH. As you raise your dps you actually need more LoH to compensate against RD (and based on the feedback on PTR, the RD 'nerf' won't change that too much). However, if you have a lot of damage mitigation, you don't need as much LoH, thus more to the balancing act. This is especially true at lower APS since you don't have as much LoH returns as higher APS.

For example, at 160k, with 4k armor and 700 resists, I got torn apart by RD+electric mobs on MP7 with some 850 LoH. Increasing my hp from 35-40k or so and adding 450 LoH didn't do much to my survivability (i.e., BT amulet). However, switching to a high str amulet did help a lot because I gained a decent chunk of extra mitigation in addition to 500 LoH. The extra 170 armor was very noticable (and about 2% less damage taken, roughly).

As far as what to do about gear, I'd recommend upgrading EHP as you try to raise DPS. Raising DPS alone will get you into trouble on higher MP because you'll take more damage due to mobs hitting harder. Raising EHP alone won't help you farm much faster, though higher EHP never hurts. Unfortunatelly doing either is going to start costing you a lot. With my gear, I actually need to raise my EHP since I still take a lot of damage from elites. My DPS is pretty decent for MP7 farming (I could probably bump it to MP8 but my EHP is a bit low for that) and higher mitigation would definitely make MP7 easier. I can really use another 500 armor or so...

[Jaetch]

What I used to use when running CM/WW was the following sort of items, which put me around 200K unbuffed DPS and 550-600K unbuffed EHP:

- 8 ias / 6 cc Mempo
- 9 ias, high armor Tal chest
- 9 ias / 6 cc Lacuni
- 8 ias / 6 cc rare ring
- 6 cc Zuni Pox
- 9 ias, 9 cc rare gloves
- 9 ias / 10 cc Blackthorne's ammy
- 9 ias Witching Hour
- 9 ias / 10 cc Chant's Force
- 1.79 APS Chant's Will

- High-end Vile Ward, high armor Blackthorne's pants, Zuni Trail to finish (yes, without a high-end Ice Climbers, you might as well keep Zuni for the DPS, otherwise go for Climbers for the EHP).

That put me at unbuffed 3.04 APS (overkill), 58% CC. So if you're looking to maximize IAS and CC (without going for the EHP-crippling Inna's Temp), check out the gear listed above. Considering 200K+ unbuffed DPS and high EHP with that gear will involve some above average to BiS items (Andariel's instead of Mempo, if you want to ditch some EHP, or just get a high int Mempo without crit), you can certainly get by with less DPS (just forego crit damage, for instance). With so much IAS and CC, you're bound to lock almost anything in your path.

Edited by Jaetch, 04 February 2013 - 09:02 PM.

[Aypnos]

Loroese, on 04 February 2013 - 08:09 PM, said:

Aypnos, on 04 February 2013 - 07:18 PM, said:

Thx again for ur tips Loroese i have 2.67 aps at the moment,enough hp(at least my opinion),and 43cc without the buffs,just 2 questions that i have if you can answer,should i swap my ring with loh for a unity gaining 10k dps about but loosing 100loh reaching to 700?is it worth it?cause unity's with 8as are about 120-150mil
Also should i just keep my gear as it is and just start to collect gold for the same ones but with higher dmg?thats what i was wondering... for example better vile wards,witching hour,better zuni with av dmg,also zuni boots all resist,tal rasha all resist?
thank you again in advance

I'd be careful about losing LoH. As you raise your dps you actually need more LoH to compensate against RD (and based on the feedback on PTR, the RD 'nerf' won't change that too much). However, if you have a lot of damage mitigation, you don't need as much LoH, thus more to the balancing act. This is especially true at lower APS since you don't have as much LoH returns as higher APS.

For example, at 160k, with 4k armor and 700 resists, I got torn apart by RD+electric mobs on MP7 with some 850 LoH. Increasing my hp from 35-40k or so and adding 450 LoH didn't do much to my survivability (i.e., BT amulet). However, switching to a high str amulet did help a lot because I gained a decent chunk of extra mitigation in addition to 500 LoH. The extra 170 armor was very noticable (and about 2% less damage taken, roughly).

As far as what to do about gear, I'd recommend upgrading EHP as you try to raise DPS. Raising DPS alone will get you into trouble on higher MP because you'll take more damage due to mobs hitting harder. Raising EHP alone won't help you farm much faster, though higher EHP never hurts. Unfortunatelly doing either is going to start costing you a lot. With my gear, I actually need to raise my EHP since I still take a lot of damage from elites. My DPS is pretty decent for MP7 farming (I could probably bump it to MP8 but my EHP is a bit low for that) and higher mitigation would definitely make MP7 easier. I can really use another 500 armor or so...

Thank you for the feedback and the advice,i ve read it all carefully and completely understood how cm works,as,loh and damage mitigation. If you got some time,take a look at the link i posted with my character and tell me what could be a ponential replacement in gear, in terms of raising dps and not loosing survivability.

thank you

Edited by Aypnos, 05 February 2013 - 12:33 AM.

[Rilko]

Just wanted to say thanks for this awesome guide. Really helped me a lot getting back into the game after a long break and to get my wizard going.

[Rolfe]

Coming back after a long haitus away from this game, this guide has helped me tremendously. I'm having a lot of fun with this build and with D3 in general again!

[lodftw]

do we switch to a ruby in our weapon?

[Bagstone]

lodftw, on 13 February 2013 - 07:13 PM, said:

do we switch to a ruby in our weapon?

I think it depends, for me emerald is still much better, both in Archon and CMWW gear. I guess ruby is good for low crit builds. Still working on my Blizzard spec though.

Since this is the CMWW thread and CMWW relies on high crit chance I think the answer is "no" :-)

[lodftw]

ok ty