214 replies to this topic

[Dalin]

Quote

Recommended Stats

Crit: 45% crit
APoC: 18-20
LoH: 800-900
APS: 2.51
Armor: 3500-4000
Resists: 500-600
HP: 30-40k
DPS: 50-100k
MP: 5-7
Budget: 20-100 mil


For all MP I recommend around 30-40k HP, though lower MP can likely be done with fewer, and more is fine. The Damage Reduction column is based on 35k hp. The armor and resists are just approximations that give the appropriate EHP with the given HP. There are any number of Armor/Resist combos that will reach the given DR% so feel free to mix and match as needed. Also, I recommend you have over 2.5 APS for this table, so if you have less you probably want higher EHP.

Quote

MP	EHP (k)	Damage Reduction %	Armor	Resists
1	140.5	75.1	2850	350
2	153.9	77.3	3000	395
3	168.7	79.2	3100	450
4	184.9	81.0	3250	500
5	202.7	82.8	3500	550
6	222.1	84.2	3700	600
7	243.4	85.6	4000	650
8	266.8	86.9	4300	700
9	292.4	88.0	4600	755
10	320.5	89.1	5000	800

Are those stats with Energy Armor on?

[Loroese]

Yes, those stats are buffed stats, so including whatever buffs you use, be it energy armor, Barb shout, or glass cannon. However, I highly recommend only using energy armor for Ubers and using Storm Armor - Shockng Aspect for farming, even if you have to lower the MP level. It adds from 50-100% dps over energy armor so it makes farming much more efficient.

[warkosh]

Fantastic job you have done here! Thanks for the guide and all the people here with constructive comments. I was playing barb for long. I also tried a WD but mp0 speed farming just isn't my style. This build completely satisfy my needs on high mp farming, with a reasonable budget (100-150m). Looking forward to 1.07 and the xp boost on high mps

[lodftw]

what do you think about zunimassas chest as the non ias item? so you can get the 2 piece bonus with boots.

[Bagstone]

lodftw, on 29 January 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

what do you think about zunimassas chest as the non ias item? so you can get the 2 piece bonus with boots.

I really don't think that the Zuni set is a perfect fit for CMWW. If you use Chantodo's, the non-black weapon makes the Zuni boots useless; the Zuni ring has the most useless of the trifecta stats fixed (crit damage), which makes a good roll insanely expensive; and I think both the Tal chest (for DPS/IAS) or Blackthorne's chest (for EHP/damage reduction/set bonus) are better suited than the Zuni chest, plus a bit cheaper since not many people consider the Blackthorne's chest as being useful.

I'd rather go with Natalya boots+ring for DPS/high CC and then Tal's/Blackthorne's chest, depending on what you need next.

[Jaetch]

lodftw, on 29 January 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

what do you think about zunimassas chest as the non ias item? so you can get the 2 piece bonus with boots.

The chest is awesome for EHP. But I suggest you ditch Zuni boots like Bagstone said. You can go the Nat's two-piece (Footprints and IAS/CC Reflection) for the bonus CC or you can run Ice Climbers for the massive EHP and take a rare ring for IAS/CC. Your Zuni bonus can come from an IAS Zuni Pox. Then you can grab bonus IAS on gloves, Lacuni's, Mempo/Andy's, Chant's set, max IAS amulet (Blackthorne's would be awesome here to go with Jousting Mail). It should come out to at least the 2.73 break point with those items.

Edited by Jaetch, 29 January 2013 - 02:30 PM.

[lodftw]

is it intended that zunimassas boots %elemental dmg only works with black weapons?

[Jaetch]

lodftw, on 31 January 2013 - 07:09 PM, said:

is it intended that zunimassas boots %elemental dmg only works with black weapons?

All % elemental bonuses work for black weapons, as the min/max black damage affixes are "unmodified," unlike min/max holy, arcane, lightning, cold, poison, fire damage (Chantodo's Will).

Edited by Jaetch, 31 January 2013 - 08:18 PM.

[Loroese]

lodftw, on 31 January 2013 - 07:09 PM, said:

is it intended that zunimassas boots %elemental dmg only works with black weapons?

It actually works for all weapons, but only applies to the physical damage portion of the weapon and OH (if applicable). In other words you get more dps out of the affix using a black weapon.

[Aypnos]

Hello everyone and thank you for this excellent guide.I must have read it like 100 times,since i switched from the boring archon(at least for me) spec to cm,also watched tons of videos...im quite frustrated on how much life on hiti need to be able to survive mp10 decently and how it does scale with the rest of the stats.Also i spent enough gold trying to gear and it seems like my only choice is to keep my rings or get a unity thats extremely expensive to raise my dps.I would appreciate any feedback and help in what to change or replace.
thank you in advance

Edited by Aypnos, 04 February 2013 - 03:19 AM.

[Aypnos]

the link of char is http://eu.battle.net...85/hero/9034392

[Jaetch]

Aypnos, on 04 February 2013 - 03:18 AM, said:

Hello everyone and thank you for this excellent guide.I must have read it like 100 times,since i switched from the boring archon(at least for me) spec to cm,also watched tons of videos...im quite frustrated on how much life on hiti need to be able to survive mp10 decently and how it does scale with the rest of the stats.Also i spent enough gold trying to gear and it seems like my only choice is to keep my rings or get a unity thats extremely expensive to raise my dps.I would appreciate any feedback and help in what to change or replace.
thank you in advance

You don't fully benefit from Zuni Trail and Tal Rasha'a Allegiance if you're running Chantodo's Will.

- Replace Tal Rasha's Allegiance with Blackthorne's Duncraig Cross with max IAS and CC, and either high int or CD.
- Replace Zuni Trail with either high-tier Ice Climbers or int Nat's Footprints along with Nat's Reflection (swap out rare ring) with high CC and IAS.
- If you replace the boots, swap out Zuni Pox with a high IAS and CC rare ring. If you don't swap out Zuni Trail, replace your current Pox with one with high IAS and CC.

Your goal shouldn't be DPS first. Your current APS is 2.67 with 43% CC. You really need to pump those up to run an efficient CM/WW. Second to that is higher EHP. At melee range, your 345K EHP could be better (better safe than sorry, anyway). You have enough HP, but you need more mitigation.

Try Deep Freeze or Bone Chill for your Frost Nova (the former for solo runs and latter for ubers). Once you get your EHP and CC up a little more, you can run SNS for more EDPS.

Edited by Jaetch, 04 February 2013 - 04:22 AM.

[Aypnos]

First of all thank you very much for the quick reply,really appreciate ur time taking to inspect and advice.Just have some quotes about what you said and would like some more feedback.
1)About replacing neck with Blackthorne's neck,i ve browsed for it the auction house several times,for hit int high cc and either ias or cd as you mentioned and except the fact im loosing enough dps(nvm about that) also the prices are insane.
2)Same thing exactly appllies for natalya's reflection ring with high cc and ias?maybe 2 overrated?should i better get ice climbers with high int and get another ring?if yes which one?any rare with cc,cd,ias,high int?
3)You mean about taking a trifecta zuni then?ias,high cc,cd ofcourse?

thank you again for any response

p.s. oh and something last,how much loh do i need?actually?

Edited by Aypnos, 04 February 2013 - 04:48 AM.

[Loroese]

Aypnos, on 04 February 2013 - 03:18 AM, said:

the link of char is http://eu.battle.net...85/hero/9034392

As an alternative to what Jaetch recommended, if you want to keep the high dps going, I'd replace your chanto set with a black dagger with IAS and socket and an APoC Triumvirate. If you get a dagger with 9% IAS or higher you'll stay above the 2.5 APS breakpoint which works just fine for farming, imo. That's the setup I'm running right now if you want to take a look for comparison, though I'm still trying to decide on an amulet. If you're really patient or lucky, you can try getting a dagger with Life Steal also, which would help your life gain a lot.

As for LoH, the recommendation is 800 LoH per 100k dps, so about 1600 LoH for you. Also, for MP10 I highly recommend 89-90% mitigation (5k armor and 800 resist = 89% mitigation). Then again, unless your running Ubers, I recommend dropping the MP to a level you can survive while using SA since it basically doubles your effective dps. For me that's around MP7-8, since I'm short 1k armor and 100 resist from my MP10 recommendation.

[RasAlgethi24]

My Zuni's boots still gives me more dps than a 300 total intel ice climbers when I switch to Chantodo's set (and BT ammy) for CM.  I wouldn't recommend swapping that Zuni's boot out unless you can afford a 350 total intelligence ice climbers which are ridiculously expensive.

Edited by RasAlgethi24, 04 February 2013 - 12:59 PM.

[Bagstone]

RasAlgethi24, on 04 February 2013 - 12:47 PM, said:

My Zuni's boots still gives me more dps than a 300 total intel ice climbers when I switch to Chantodo's set (and BT ammy) for CM.  I wouldn't recommend swapping that Zuni's boot out unless you can afford a 350 total intelligence ice climbers which are ridiculously expensive.

That's because you have the Zuni chest as well (giving you the 130 int set bonus) and quite high DPS with 300k+. A typical Chantodo's gets about 70% of its damage from the fire damage bonus. That leaves you with about 2% damage bonus from the Zuni boots' poison damage. For your 300k+ DPS this is still a lot, but if you don't consider the Zuni set bonus and your DPS is lower (and to be fair, most people looking for help won't have 300k DPS) they are better off with other alternatives.

In your gear range almost every upgrade needs to be one of the BiS items, which makes upgrades expensive but also easier because there's not much variety for BiS items once you reach a certain DPS.

[Aypnos]

RasAlgethi24, on 04 February 2013 - 12:47 PM, said:

My Zuni's boots still gives me more dps than a 300 total intel ice climbers when I switch to Chantodo's set (and BT ammy) for CM.  I wouldn't recommend swapping that Zuni's boot out unless you can afford a 350 total intelligence ice climbers which are ridiculously expensive.

Do you think i need a unity which boost my dps by average by 10k+ dmg but i drop to 700loh?

[Aypnos]

Bagstone, on 04 February 2013 - 01:09 PM, said:

RasAlgethi24, on 04 February 2013 - 12:47 PM, said:

My Zuni's boots still gives me more dps than a 300 total intel ice climbers when I switch to Chantodo's set (and BT ammy) for CM.  I wouldn't recommend swapping that Zuni's boot out unless you can afford a 350 total intelligence ice climbers which are ridiculously expensive.

That's because you have the Zuni chest as well (giving you the 130 int set bonus) and quite high DPS with 300k+. A typical Chantodo's gets about 70% of its damage from the fire damage bonus. That leaves you with about 2% damage bonus from the Zuni boots' poison damage. For your 300k+ DPS this is still a lot, but if you don't consider the Zuni set bonus and your DPS is lower (and to be fair, most people looking for help won't have 300k DPS) they are better off with other alternatives.

In your gear range almost every upgrade needs to be one of the BiS items, which makes upgrades expensive but also easier because there's not much variety for BiS items once you reach a certain DPS.

Are you referring to me on the upgrades?cause if you are that would be excellent good to know that i need certain items,but according to bagstone's guide and this guide i am a bit frustrated which exactly are the Bis for Cm

[Jaetch]

Aypnos, on 04 February 2013 - 05:42 PM, said:

Bagstone, on 04 February 2013 - 01:09 PM, said:

RasAlgethi24, on 04 February 2013 - 12:47 PM, said:

My Zuni's boots still gives me more dps than a 300 total intel ice climbers when I switch to Chantodo's set (and BT ammy) for CM.  I wouldn't recommend swapping that Zuni's boot out unless you can afford a 350 total intelligence ice climbers which are ridiculously expensive.

That's because you have the Zuni chest as well (giving you the 130 int set bonus) and quite high DPS with 300k+. A typical Chantodo's gets about 70% of its damage from the fire damage bonus. That leaves you with about 2% damage bonus from the Zuni boots' poison damage. For your 300k+ DPS this is still a lot, but if you don't consider the Zuni set bonus and your DPS is lower (and to be fair, most people looking for help won't have 300k DPS) they are better off with other alternatives.

In your gear range almost every upgrade needs to be one of the BiS items, which makes upgrades expensive but also easier because there's not much variety for BiS items once you reach a certain DPS.

Are you referring to me on the upgrades?cause if you are that would be excellent good to know that i need certain items,but according to bagstone's guide and this guide i am a bit frustrated which exactly are the Bis for Cm

He was referring to RasAlgethi's stats. As for BiS items for CM, I think Bagstone summed it all up pretty well in the gear choices section of his guide. You want X amount of attack speed to hit the required breakpoints that Loroese has summed up in this guide. You also want to stack as high CC as you can to proc CM as much as possible then stack EHP so you can stay in fights without even thinking about kiting.

There are only so many items that can give you attack speed in non-standard IAS slots like your chest and helm. Those are the ones you want to pick up in order to reach breakpoints.

[JKlimek]

so... ugh
I missed the part where you can't get to 3.001 without Inna's Pants, IAS Chantodo's want, or the IAS rune of slow time.  I just got done upgrading all of my pieces to max ias only to find I'm ONE fracken % short!

Anyway, I wanted to post here a little better strategy on SK/Mag.  I have been having a lot of good luck lately with stun locking them both "permanently" and wanted to share.  What I do is ignore SK and focus only on freezing Mag.  Don't use any of the other abilities, just freeze and wicked wind.  At some point SK will teleport to you and get stuck right on top of Mag and then you can lock them both until SK is dead.

A couple notes: I dunno if my CC is too low or what, but I can't really get a permalock on Mag by herself.  Once SK comes in tho, I can freeze both of them.  This is important because it prevents mag from doing anything and it also prevents the SK's invulnerable "strut" that we've all died to.