237 replies to this topic

[Loroese]

IMO LoH reduces the EHP requirement considerably. With 1k LoH I can run MP10 pretty well with around 320k EHP, though I haven't tried Ubers yet. That's where my EHP table came from, and why I mention it assumes you have a decent amount of LoH. I'm up to 370k EHP now with full SNS, but only 100k dps, so I can farm MP10, it's just a bit slower than I'd like.

That is an interesting table for 0 LoH and LS, though I would never want to try it because I find the LoH to be cheaper than the extra EHP requirement. I just can't imagine trying to play CMWW without LoH.


I decided to re-run your stats, using your actual fight time instead of 60s as well as 200ms latency, and got the following results:

EA:
CR = 36.6259
White = 1.532
WW = 61.8421
eDPS multiplier = 3.3097
eDPS = 572.2k (2.3% difference)

SNS:
CR = 20.7763
White = 1.7901
WW = 34.5699
SA = 26.6624
StormA = 9.3882
DS = 6.7381
eDPS mult = 5.3628
eDPS = 927.2k (10% difference)

So I'm still underestimating the SNS dps, which I attribute to the inexplicable interaction of SA and WW. I really need to do another round of testing sometime and include the 3.01 breakpoint to get a better formula for SA procs from WW. Still, the results aren't too bad.

[Jaetch]

I just picked up a few pieces and now run 3.01 APS. Given my past experience with RD, I kept Crystal Shell instead of Shards, Prismatic instead of Storm.

I'll contribute something later on after I take a break. Running ubers and clicking nonstop is really takings its toll on my fingers (and my keyboard/mouse).

[JKlimek]

Jaetch, on 21 December 2012 - 06:04 PM, said:

Running ubers and clicking nonstop is really takings its toll on my fingers (and my keyboard/mouse).

#1 reason to find a friend that does CM and not do it yourself

I think any CM wiz that does an uber run with you shouldn't have to provide their own portal!  It's exhausting!

[Fateq]

This thread was great and helped me get a good start on my gear.

I do have a question if anyone would care to help.


My stats at the moment are:
2.77 APS
47.5% Crit chance
275% Crit damage
Lowest res is 425 highest 494
1507 LoH
27 APoC, due to storm crow and apoc chant force.

I currently have 88 mil, when looking at my gear, link here:
eu battle net/d3/en/profile/Fateq-2885/hero/16104225
What piece or pieces would you recommend I try to buy with my 88 mil? I am EU so I think the AH prices are more expensive than US so that may need to be taken into account.

If anyone can give some tips that would be great.

[Loroese]

Fateq, on 21 December 2012 - 09:07 PM, said:

This thread was great and helped me get a good start on my gear.

I do have a question if anyone would care to help.


My stats at the moment are:
2.77 APS
47.5% Crit chance
275% Crit damage
Lowest res is 425 highest 494
1507 LoH
27 APoC, due to storm crow and apoc chant force.

I currently have 88 mil, when looking at my gear, link here:
eu battle net/d3/en/profile/Fateq-2885/hero/16104225
What piece or pieces would you recommend I try to buy with my 88 mil? I am EU so I think the AH prices are more expensive than US so that may need to be taken into account.

If anyone can give some tips that would be great.

You're at a point where you have to decide which direction to take in gearing. The way I see it, you have 2 main options: 1) Increase DPS to make Key farming faster, and 2) Increase survivability for higher MP.

With option 1, you could still tackle higher MP ubers, you'd just need to use energy armor and maybe force armor for MP10. With this direction you'll want to start looking at trifecta pieces, probably rings first, like a crit damage nat's ring (I assume a CC nat's ring is over your budget) or just rare trifecta ring. The idea of this option is to maintain your EHP but try to raise your dps where you can. You can lose a bit of LoH for now, so replacing your helm might be an option (mempo with armor and int should be cheap and will give you a lot of EHP, plus should raise dps a bit).

With option 2 the idea is to maintain your dps but raise your damage mitigation via armor and resists. Swapping to a mempo helm is one option, or upgrading your chest, belt, or pants to AR+armor versions are other options. If you switch to a mempo, you can swap your bracers for rare bracers with high resist, int, crit and some amount of armor and/or vit to increase your EHP a bit, though you'd lose some movement speed, but I find movement speed not as important for the build since you can use wormhole for farming. That's pretty much where I am at now, running around 5k armor and 800 resist with 100k dps (370k EHP). With that I should be able to run full SNS for MP10 Ubers, though for key farming I'm probably best to stick with MP6-7 for optimal efficiency.

In short, Option 1 is for increasing key farming efficiency while Option 2 is more for making it easier to run Ubers. With both options I think you should be able to run Ubers at high MP (might need Force Armor for MP10), so it's really up to you.

JKlimek, on 21 December 2012 - 06:24 PM, said:

Jaetch, on 21 December 2012 - 06:04 PM, said:

Running ubers and clicking nonstop is really takings its toll on my fingers (and my keyboard/mouse).

#1 reason to find a friend that does CM and not do it yourself

I think any CM wiz that does an uber run with you shouldn't have to provide their own portal!  It's exhausting!

Totally agree. I haven't run Ubers much lately due to lack of free time and lack of people looking for MP10 when I'm online, but the one day I ran 3 times in a short time period my arms were tired enough that I didn't even consider running a 4th. I really want to just use my razer naga macros but I don't want to get banned for "automation of gameplay".

[Forock]

Thank you for the awsome/ifnormative thread/post(s). This is a great read.

CM/WW is basically my main spec. I use two builds, one for farming and one for ubers. Tested the most recent uber gear and spec set-up last night against MP10 and only got gibbed once by Maghda (and thankfully quickly ressed to win). The rest we completely dominated with little to no trouble.

I'm running ~2.8 APS unbuffed. For ubers, I used the 20% Time Warp and Crystal Shell, but did not swap out Storm Armor. I think Storm Armor is just too sweet to swap out - and correct me if I'm wrong - but it does also help a bit with survivability and getting your opening attack string off (not as much as others, but still) in the form of the extra base Arcane Power. Diamond Shards on the other hand I sacrificed for Crystal Shell cause it's just such a huge boost in survivability, or at least to me it feels that way. So basically I think what I'm trying to say is Crystal Shell > Prismatic and we don't need both to survive MP10 (if well geared). That's why I always keep Storm Armor. My armor may be a bit low (only ~3470) but it wasn't a big problem at all, maybe cause I have decent LoH (~1500) with ~47k life and ~222k DPS.

Question: I use a 1.65 Chantodo and have 71% AS from gear. If I pull another 9% out of my ass, will I reach 3.0 breakpoint unbuffed? I'm trying to achieve a 3.0 speed + 20% bubble spec for MP10s. I used a few calculators and some told me I'd make it, and some gave me 2.98 or 2.99 (which made me wanna cry).

For normal farming I go MP6 and use Teleport (Safe Passage) instead of Slow Time. I also go full SNS with Shards included and have no survivability issues mostly. Teleport makes you a LOT faster and more efficient, makes you laugh at mobs running away instead of getting frustrated and can also save your butt mid-fight. The Safe Passage rune is nice when there's maybe a very strong mob pounding on you where you can teleport in place or very close, slightly adjusting your position while gaining the damage mitigatin at the same time.

Also, a tip for all you guys who said Reflect Damage gives you problems: Don't Explosive Blast. They'll take a little longer to die with just WW and novas, sure, but you'll still emerge victorious (without suicide bombing yoruself).

[Loroese]

Forock, on 22 December 2012 - 06:31 AM, said:

Thank you for the awsome/ifnormative thread/post(s). This is a great read.

CM/WW is basically my main spec. I use two builds, one for farming and one for ubers. Tested the most recent uber gear and spec set-up last night against MP10 and only got gibbed once by Maghda (and thankfully quickly ressed to win). The rest we completely dominated with little to no trouble.

I'm running ~2.8 APS unbuffed. For ubers, I used the 20% Time Warp and Crystal Shell, but did not swap out Storm Armor. I think Storm Armor is just too sweet to swap out - and correct me if I'm wrong - but it does also help a bit with survivability and getting your opening attack string off (not as much as others, but still) in the form of the extra base Arcane Power. Diamond Shards on the other hand I sacrificed for Crystal Shell cause it's just such a huge boost in survivability, or at least to me it feels that way. So basically I think what I'm trying to say is Crystal Shell > Prismatic and we don't need both to survive MP10 (if well geared). That's why I always keep Storm Armor. My armor may be a bit low (only ~3470) but it wasn't a big problem at all, maybe cause I have decent LoH (~1500) with ~47k life and ~222k DPS.

Question: I use a 1.65 Chantodo and have 71% AS from gear. If I pull another 9% out of my ass, will I reach 3.0 breakpoint unbuffed? I'm trying to achieve a 3.0 speed + 20% bubble spec for MP10s. I used a few calculators and some told me I'd make it, and some gave me 2.98 or 2.99 (which made me wanna cry).

For normal farming I go MP6 and use Teleport (Safe Passage) instead of Slow Time. I also go full SNS with Shards included and have no survivability issues mostly. Teleport makes you a LOT faster and more efficient, makes you laugh at mobs running away instead of getting frustrated and can also save your butt mid-fight. The Safe Passage rune is nice when there's maybe a very strong mob pounding on you where you can teleport in place or very close, slightly adjusting your position while gaining the damage mitigatin at the same time.

Also, a tip for all you guys who said Reflect Damage gives you problems: Don't Explosive Blast. They'll take a little longer to die with just WW and novas, sure, but you'll still emerge victorious (without suicide bombing yoruself).

With a 1.65 APS weapon you need 82% IAS to reach the 3.0 breakpoint. I have a table with IAS for each breakpoint in my DPS/EHP spreadsheet if needed.

[Fateq]

Loroese, on 21 December 2012 - 10:11 PM, said:

Fateq, on 21 December 2012 - 09:07 PM, said:

This thread was great and helped me get a good start on my gear.

I do have a question if anyone would care to help.


My stats at the moment are:
2.77 APS
47.5% Crit chance
275% Crit damage
Lowest res is 425 highest 494
1507 LoH
27 APoC, due to storm crow and apoc chant force.

I currently have 88 mil, when looking at my gear, link here:
eu battle net/d3/en/profile/Fateq-2885/hero/16104225
What piece or pieces would you recommend I try to buy with my 88 mil? I am EU so I think the AH prices are more expensive than US so that may need to be taken into account.

If anyone can give some tips that would be great.

You're at a point where you have to decide which direction to take in gearing. The way I see it, you have 2 main options: 1) Increase DPS to make Key farming faster, and 2) Increase survivability for higher MP.

With option 1, you could still tackle higher MP ubers, you'd just need to use energy armor and maybe force armor for MP10. With this direction you'll want to start looking at trifecta pieces, probably rings first, like a crit damage nat's ring (I assume a CC nat's ring is over your budget) or just rare trifecta ring. The idea of this option is to maintain your EHP but try to raise your dps where you can. You can lose a bit of LoH for now, so replacing your helm might be an option (mempo with armor and int should be cheap and will give you a lot of EHP, plus should raise dps a bit).

With option 2 the idea is to maintain your dps but raise your damage mitigation via armor and resists. Swapping to a mempo helm is one option, or upgrading your chest, belt, or pants to AR+armor versions are other options. If you switch to a mempo, you can swap your bracers for rare bracers with high resist, int, crit and some amount of armor and/or vit to increase your EHP a bit, though you'd lose some movement speed, but I find movement speed not as important for the build since you can use wormhole for farming. That's pretty much where I am at now, running around 5k armor and 800 resist with 100k dps (370k EHP). With that I should be able to run full SNS for MP10 Ubers, though for key farming I'm probably best to stick with MP6-7 for optimal efficiency.

In short, Option 1 is for increasing key farming efficiency while Option 2 is more for making it easier to run Ubers. With both options I think you should be able to run Ubers at high MP (might need Force Armor for MP10), so it's really up to you.

JKlimek, on 21 December 2012 - 06:24 PM, said:

Jaetch, on 21 December 2012 - 06:04 PM, said:

Running ubers and clicking nonstop is really takings its toll on my fingers (and my keyboard/mouse).

#1 reason to find a friend that does CM and not do it yourself

I think any CM wiz that does an uber run with you shouldn't have to provide their own portal!  It's exhausting!

Totally agree. I haven't run Ubers much lately due to lack of free time and lack of people looking for MP10 when I'm online, but the one day I ran 3 times in a short time period my arms were tired enough that I didn't even consider running a 4th. I really want to just use my razer naga macros but I don't want to get banned for "automation of gameplay".

Thanks for the help, I purchased a mempo and now only have 45% crit chance with scoundrel, i've looked at increased armor chest/belt/higher cc ring to replace my current rare one but they're out of my 65 mil budget, I was looking at a neck with CC as my blackthornes has crit damage and not cc, I found this one : http:// i.imgur.com/uUgpl.png but not sure if its worth paying 55mil for 9% crit chance or whether I should keep my gold and hope for some good drops to increase my money allowing me to buy a better chest/belt/ring.

Thanks again.

[Qoffee]

Fateq, on 21 December 2012 - 09:07 PM, said:

Thanks for the help, I purchased a mempo and now only have 45% crit chance with scoundrel, i've looked at increased armor chest/belt/higher cc ring to replace my current rare one but they're out of my 65 mil budget, I was looking at a neck with CC as my blackthornes has crit damage and not cc, I found this one : http:// i.imgur.com/uUgpl.png but not sure if its worth paying 55mil for 9% crit chance or whether I should keep my gold and hope for some good drops to increase my money allowing me to buy a better chest/belt/ring.

Thanks again.

i'd take one with a slightly lower crit chance (8/8.5), anything above 50 crit is really good still and would save you about 30 mil which you can use on other upgrades. Some more resists would probably help a lot on higher mp's

[Goldroger_82]

very nice guide

[Loroese]

Qoffee, on 22 December 2012 - 11:48 AM, said:

Fateq, on 21 December 2012 - 09:07 PM, said:

Thanks for the help, I purchased a mempo and now only have 45% crit chance with scoundrel, i've looked at increased armor chest/belt/higher cc ring to replace my current rare one but they're out of my 65 mil budget, I was looking at a neck with CC as my blackthornes has crit damage and not cc, I found this one : http:// i.imgur.com/uUgpl.png but not sure if its worth paying 55mil for 9% crit chance or whether I should keep my gold and hope for some good drops to increase my money allowing me to buy a better chest/belt/ring.

Thanks again.

i'd take one with a slightly lower crit chance (8/8.5), anything above 50 crit is really good still and would save you about 30 mil which you can use on other upgrades. Some more resists would probably help a lot on higher mp's

I agree. I'm using an 8.5% CC blackthorn, and there seems to be quite a jump in cost from 8/8.5 to 9/9.5. I'm just under 50% crit when in group and I think it's fine. Any higher is mostly for extra DPS purposes, so it's more of an extravagence to me while still gearing for EHP and IAS breakpoints.

[TheDemokin]

Btw guys, if you are playing CM and using a razer mouse - make a macro assigned to one of the mouse buttons to spam 1,2,3 for you. I have been using this for months, no bans of any sort. This is also a part of the razer official mouse driver and all it does is emulates the button clicks, which basically means - there's nothing to detect to begin with.

[Loroese]

TheDemokin, on 22 December 2012 - 07:13 PM, said:

Btw guys, if you are playing CM and using a razer mouse - make a macro assigned to one of the mouse buttons to spam 1,2,3 for you. I have been using this for months, no bans of any sort. This is also a part of the razer official mouse driver and all it does is emulates the button clicks, which basically means - there's nothing to detect to begin with.

I don't do that because they CAN ban you since it's automating game play. Whether they can detect it, and whether they will actually ban you if you can do it is another issue, but I'd rather not take the chance after 500 hours or so of game play.

[Bagstone]

Agree with Loroese - it's basically bannable. Some blue posts said earlier that macros decrease the amount of keypresses and therefore simplify the game, giving some players an unfair advantage. I would not risk that, and I also disagree that it's not detectable. It's actually pretty easy to detect, since all your actions are always in the same order with the exact same delay between keystrokes (probably zero or just the minimum based on your latency).

Just because you haven't been banned doesn't mean you're safe.

[Forock]

It is indeed bannable I believe, to force a macro from a mouse onto Diablo 3 for gameplay advantage. That's why the game was designed without such a feature; otherwise you would have seen a macro feature in-game (such as the one in World of Warcraft).

...but no, it can't be detected. The "order" in which your buttons are pressed doesn't matter. Even if Blizzard wasted time and money (which they don't) on calculating how far apart every player's key strokes are and then found someone with an extremely repetetive pattern it would prove nothing. How are they gonna prove you weren't performing that pattern with your fingers on a keyboard? Besides, not all your clicks go through. You don't DS, EB, and FN at the same time which makes this even more irrelevant.

I use a Razer Naga Hex but still don't use macros on it though. Not because of bans or anything like that... but because I wanna control what I click. Sometimes I'll run inton reflect damage for example, and then I wanna only nova and DS without EB; or maybe I wanna just nova something specific. If I had a macro I wouldn't be able to do that. I admit I don't get much use out of its 6 buttons playing CM/WW except for maybe having shift and potion on my mouse; however it's actually pretty sweet to use for specs like Blizzard/Hydra. You don't even need the keyboard for some specs (ex: Archon).

[Willyum]

This guide completely just re-motivated me

[dao72785]

this is a great guide i am now running 925 AR/6400 Armor/40k HP (490k ehp), 50.5% chc, 2.74 aps NO STRETCH TIME!/54% +IAS, 18 apoc, 634 loh, but only 45k dps . i couldnt afford to have high survivability + high dps so i went with just the survivability so i can stay alive while freezing in mp8+ ubers/elites. im sure it would cost a good 200m+ to get good dps + high ehp but i only spent about 60m on my character and do just fine just need others to do the killing while i keep the elites/ubers in check. the only thing im having trouble with is tanking act 2 kw im going to have to keep my distance from him while freezing.

big ticket items

1.78 aps chantodo's will 15m
9% ias/+202 armor witching hour 9m
634 loh/8.0 chc/9.0 ias ammy 15m

and those were a STEAL! everything else is around 1-3m each

this guide has motivated me to get back into ubers and im pretty sure plenty of people would love to have me freeze for them because most fail wiz with +ias gear and no AR/Armor to back it up cant stay alive.

Edited by dao72785, 08 January 2013 - 08:00 AM.

[RasAlgethi24]

Thank you for the awesome guide.  Followed it and and built one for under a 100mil.  Some quick numbers:

100k DPS
3 APS w/ time stretch (72IAS+1.65 Chanto)
50%CC
19 APOC
45k hp
3900 armor
600 all resists
920 life on hit


http://us.battle.net...1/hero/30377838

Any  suggestions are welcomed.  I want to improve survivability for higher mp levels but don't want to drop below 100k dps.  Tough with my budget.

Edited by RasAlgethi24, 11 January 2013 - 01:47 AM.

[Loroese]

RasAlgethi24, on 11 January 2013 - 01:35 AM, said:

Thank you for the awesome guide.  Followed it and built a 3aps (with time stretch) one for under a 100mil.

http://us.battle.net...1/hero/30377838

Any other suggestions are welcomed.

That's a pretty good set for under 100 mil, considering you can probably sell the amulet+bracer+weapon for about that much or more.

If you want to farm higher MP, I'd say look into raising armor and resists. If you are fine with MP5-7 or so, then just raise dps since you should have enough EHP for around there, and can always swap to Force Armor for higher MP Ubers.

[RasAlgethi24]

Loroese, on 11 January 2013 - 01:45 AM, said:

RasAlgethi24, on 11 January 2013 - 01:35 AM, said:

Thank you for the awesome guide.  Followed it and built a 3aps (with time stretch) one for under a 100mil.

http://us.battle.net...1/hero/30377838

Any other suggestions are welcomed.

That's a pretty good set for under 100 mil, considering you can probably sell the amulet+bracer+weapon for about that much or more.

If you want to farm higher MP, I'd say look into raising armor and resists. If you are fine with MP5-7 or so, then just raise dps since you should have enough EHP for around there, and can always swap to Force Armor for higher MP Ubers.

I edited my post to provide more detail.  Yeah I spent a lot of time in the auction house looking for good deals, waiting for ones to end and got some really good deals.