198 replies to this topic

[Stephenk291]

she_wolf, on 10 December 2012 - 09:17 AM, said:

I don't think it's dying. I just started playing Diablo 3 and i believe that many of people does the same.

then how would you even know about the prior player bases at release..the subsequent patches..etc if you just started playing? ...move along.

Edited by Stephenk291, 10 December 2012 - 01:18 PM.

[Hazy]

Ameko, on 10 December 2012 - 12:39 AM, said:

So I was offering MP10 uber boss run as long as people provide minimum 3 machines in both trade chat and general chat. I would be able to get spammed by people who wanted to come along a month ago, but yesterday I got 0 reply. That's says alot about the game population now.

I wouldn't be using that as an example of game population. I could argue that a lot of people are probably satisfied with their current hellfire rings and aren't bothering to try to farm up more, and that they would prefer to do MF runs. I could also argue that a lot of people are able to do Ubers at MP7+ with friends and just don't need someone to run them through that content anymore. I think this is a poorly thought out example and people should stop coming up with unfounded and illogical conclusions from their small samples to try and impose their silly ideas onto others.

What i would like to see is people coming up with ideas and sharing their feedback with Blizzard directly instead of trying to feel better about themselves by reading people agreeing with their opinions because they are frustrated with the game and feel the need to tell everyone that the game they are playing sucks.

Edited by Hazy, 10 December 2012 - 01:30 PM.

[Mantius]

Just want to throw in my $.02...

I played Diablo 2 beginning with its release, and still played as recent as this year  It was easily my favorite game of all time, only tied by Classic WoW with friends in its prime.  I can't tell you how many characters and different specs I leveled through Hell...  And had fun everytime I played it.  (I started 2 HC characters this time last year in anticipation of D3 coming out and had a blast - even with no mods!)

I got bored with D3 by the June/July, and don't even play anymore now.  None of my friends play anymore.  We play TL2 and SW:TOR.


I check DiabloFans everyday hoping for news of a major revamp coming to itemization...  If they do that - there is hope for this game for me.  As it stands, the game is dead to me and my friends.

In my opinion, D3 is not a true sequel D2 - at it's fundamental levels, it just seems to be missing what made D2 great.  It might be a great game by itself, but it is not just a game by itself...  It is Diablo 3...

Edited by Mantius, 10 December 2012 - 01:39 PM.

[WhiskeyDex420]

Hazy, on 10 December 2012 - 01:26 PM, said:

Ameko, on 10 December 2012 - 12:39 AM, said:

So I was offering MP10 uber boss run as long as people provide minimum 3 machines in both trade chat and general chat. I would be able to get spammed by people who wanted to come along a month ago, but yesterday I got 0 reply. That's says alot about the game population now.

I wouldn't be using that as an example of game population. I could argue that a lot of people are probably satisfied with their current hellfire rings and aren't bothering to try to farm up more, and that they would prefer to do MF runs. I could also argue that a lot of people are able to do Ubers at MP7+ with friends and just don't need someone to run them through that content anymore. I think this is a poorly thought out example and people should stop coming up with unfounded and illogical conclusions from their small samples to try and impose their silly ideas onto others.

What i would like to see is people coming up with ideas and sharing their feedback with Blizzard directly instead of trying to feel better about themselves by reading people agreeing with their opinions because they are frustrated with the game and feel the need to tell everyone that the game they are playing sucks.

I went to do an act 3 run in public games. A tumble-weed rolled slowly across my screen. The spider queen covered the entire place in cobwebs. Must have been a storm from the Desolate sands as well; everything was covered in dust.

[Dwello]

I'm not 100% convinced the game is dying. The community on EU is a bit scare, but then i jump on US and its' still booming. For me the game is far more enjoyable NOW then on release. I do find "non-hardcore" boring as bat shit, but after the switch to only hardcore where you dont' have cashed up monkeys and there "OMG 5 SECOND ASMO KILL" it's still enjoyable.

[Boss_Hogg]

Been playing, and still playing, since 5/15/12 (well...more like 5/16/12 if you think about it).  It's not dead in my eyes, but I think it will need an X-pac or 2 before people can raelly judge the game to that extent.  We all remember vanilla D2, and off it was.  LoD fixed a lot of things, and brought new content to the table...and now look, it's a classic.  Will D3 be that?  Who the hell knows ?!

[KillDiablosMom]

AudioCG, on 07 December 2012 - 10:28 PM, said:

The same reason people lvl'd to 99 in D2?

Diablo is NOT an MMO, there is no monthly fee, im not sure why you would think there would be constant new content without a full expansion release?

Once they add PvP, Diablo 3 will literally have more endgame content then D2:LoD ever did.

Also, fun fact:

There are already more Diablo 3 players then Diablo 2 players. (imagine what will happen when the first x pack hits.)

^^^^^
Dumb peice of shit fact!


heres the fun fact...
D2 was more underground than bullshit D3 wow pop

Edited by KillDiablosMom, 10 December 2012 - 06:42 PM.

[incy1987]

i wouldn't have the slightest idea if it's dieing or not. even though my friendlist became completely empty after only a few months of playing.
i couldn't care less aswell as i'm not even playing it myself anymore. and why is that? simple, it doesn't live up to the expectations i had from it.
its a good game and it could keep you busy for a while. but that's it it's just a good game.

d2:lod wasn't a good game, it was an extraordinary good game.

if it was only possible i would definatly give 200 bucks for a remake of d2. just pollishing the graphics and deal with botters
so much was promised so much was hyped. and so little was delivered. i guess we can only blame ourselfs for that.

Edited by incy1987, 10 December 2012 - 07:35 PM.

[Gheed2010]

The front page of this topic list and the main d3 one at incgamers goes back two days.

D3 standard is selling under flight simulator, barely in the top 20, despite cutting the price to $52.

So, uh, maybe.

[AudioCG]

KillDiablosMom, on 10 December 2012 - 06:41 PM, said:

AudioCG, on 07 December 2012 - 10:28 PM, said:

The same reason people lvl'd to 99 in D2?

Diablo is NOT an MMO, there is no monthly fee, im not sure why you would think there would be constant new content without a full expansion release?

Once they add PvP, Diablo 3 will literally have more endgame content then D2:LoD ever did.

Also, fun fact:

There are already more Diablo 3 players then Diablo 2 players. (imagine what will happen when the first x pack hits.)

^^^^^
Dumb peice of shit fact!


heres the fun fact...
D2 was more underground than bullshit D3 wow pop

Spelling errors, check.

Incoherent sentence structure, check.

Retard who just referred to one of the most recognized games in PC history as "underground"............ check.

Is it physically painful to be that stupid?

Edited by AudioCG, 10 December 2012 - 07:46 PM.

[AudioCG]

Gheed2010, on 10 December 2012 - 07:44 PM, said:

The front page of this topic list and the main d3 one at incgamers goes back two days.

D3 standard is selling under flight simulator, barely in the top 20, despite cutting the price to $52.

So, uh, maybe.

How many games in said top 20 ranking have been out as long as Diablo 3? (Just wondering...)

Edited by AudioCG, 10 December 2012 - 07:51 PM.

[Mantius]

Boss_Hogg, on 10 December 2012 - 06:23 PM, said:

Been playing, and still playing, since 5/15/12 (well...more like 5/16/12 if you think about it).  It's not dead in my eyes, but I think it will need an X-pac or 2 before people can raelly judge the game to that extent.  We all remember vanilla D2, and off it was.  LoD fixed a lot of things, and brought new content to the table...and now look, it's a classic.  Will D3 be that?  Who the hell knows ?!

Not to pick on you in particular, but I really don't like this excuse/reasoning for why D3 isn't good.

Why do we give a free pass to the D3 devs for ignoring 10 years of Diablo 2 gameplay ideas, mechanics, itemization and feature improvements?  It's like they set out to re-create the wheel and created a square-shaped tire instead of the round one we're familiar with - and WORKS well.

[Gheed2010]

AudioCG, on 10 December 2012 - 07:47 PM, said:

How many games in said top 20 ranking have been out as long as Diablo 3? (Just wondering...)

It's the Amazon current list, which changes fast and has a healthy hardware presence (though neither or those stopped D3 from totally owning it until release).

Skyrim, Flight Simulation X, to answer your question.

To be fair, D3 has done very well as a stand-alone commercial release.  But, in the bigger picture, it's a train wreck.  We could reference many things, but the -20% trip ATVI stock took from release day of D3 to the release day of BLOPS2 says it all.  Or, at least, says something similar to the metacritic user score and near-total blackout during awards season.  The remarkable thing is that the stench from it even carried over to other titles, in:re the "game of the decade" snub towards WoW this past weekend.

[AudioCG]

Mantius, on 10 December 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

Boss_Hogg, on 10 December 2012 - 06:23 PM, said:

Been playing, and still playing, since 5/15/12 (well...more like 5/16/12 if you think about it).  It's not dead in my eyes, but I think it will need an X-pac or 2 before people can raelly judge the game to that extent.  We all remember vanilla D2, and off it was.  LoD fixed a lot of things, and brought new content to the table...and now look, it's a classic.  Will D3 be that?  Who the hell knows ?!

Not to pick on you in particular, but I really don't like this excuse/reasoning for why D3 isn't good.

Why do we give a free pass to the D3 devs for ignoring 10 years of Diablo 2 gameplay ideas, mechanics, itemization and feature improvements?  It's like they set out to re-create the wheel and created a square-shaped tire instead of the round one we're familiar with - and WORKS well.

#1 complaints about D2, from the community;

Stat points all distributed the same, Synergy skill point system forces cookie cutter builds, Bots and y u no captcha, HC death due to lag.

They changed stuff because the community asked them too.

Did they get it right?

In some ways yes, and in some ways no.

[Gheed2010]

Mantius, on 10 December 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

Why do we give a free pass to the D3 devs for ignoring 10 years of Diablo 2 gameplay ideas, mechanics, itemization and feature improvements?

Well, they weren't there during Diablo 2 development.  None of them, except one who joined late in a junior capacity.  So we couldn't reasonably expect them to know about iterative processes that happened hundreds of miles away with people they've never met.

Maybe we could expect them to know about them as players, but companies with the size of blizz are more about politics than knowledge or competence.

[Bagstone]

incy1987, on 10 December 2012 - 07:34 PM, said:

if it was only possible i would definatly give 200 bucks for a remake of d2. just pollishing the graphics and deal with botters
so much was promised so much was hyped. and so little was delivered. i guess we can only blame ourselfs for that.

Mantius, on 10 December 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

Why do we give a free pass to the D3 devs for ignoring 10 years of Diablo 2 gameplay ideas, mechanics, itemization and feature improvements?  It's like they set out to re-create the wheel and created a square-shaped tire instead of the round one we're familiar with - and WORKS well.

Sure, they could've just upgraded D2 to state-of-the-art graphics and I would be fine with it. In fact, after they introduced re-spec, all I needed was a resolution upgrade, and D2 would still be the best f***ing game out there. But Blizzard wanted to go even further. They wanted to take it to the next level. Create a new game which is even better than the old one. Not just a copycat, because that's what EA and all the other stupid publishers do, but take an existing franchise and re-invent it.

Evaluating the status quo at release time, the verdict definitely was "they failed". 7 months after release my take is "they're not quite there yet, there's work to be done". But: I think they can make it. While itemization is flawed, inflation is killing the fun for many, crafting is f***ed up, there's no gambling and almost no endgame - all this can be fixed. In fact, I think it will be fixed eventually. Oh, and they'll even introduce the crap called PvP (couldn't care less about that, but hey, to each his own). They already improved one thing: while in D2 the most efficient way for progress was to kill one single boss over and over again, to be more exact about 1200 times killing Baal just to go from 98 to 99, the "most efficient thing" in D3 is to clear a whole level (act 3), about 20% of the game's content. Which means, the replay value of D3 is already much better than that of D2, at least to some extent. But as I mentioned, there's still work to be done.

Look at it from another perspective: if they would've always just copied an existing system and never try to invent something new, there would've never been a D2 in the first place. They would've just sticked to everything from D1 "because it worked". :-)

Edited by Bagstone, 10 December 2012 - 08:42 PM.

[Gheed2010]

Bagstone, on 10 December 2012 - 08:39 PM, said:

While itemization is flawed, inflation is killing the fun for many, crafting is f***ed up, there's no gambling and almost no endgame - all this can be fixed.

That's just the most obvious design flaws, and I'd include non-ignorable "story" speech and the need to play through for twenty hours before one gets to a non-newbie difficulty with it.  I don't expect either of those to be fixed, though both would take seconds.

Material that involves content (the linear, predictable levels with almost no randomness, the bland atmosphere that has a small fraction of the personality of D/D2, bizarre character design choices like Sheablo, generally horrible writing and story elements) aren't so easy to fix.  In fact, they're just about impossible to fix.

[brx]

Gheed2010, on 11 December 2012 - 06:05 AM, said:

Bagstone, on 10 December 2012 - 08:39 PM, said:

While itemization is flawed, inflation is killing the fun for many, crafting is f***ed up, there's no gambling and almost no endgame - all this can be fixed.

That's just the most obvious design flaws, and I'd include non-ignorable "story" speech and the need to play through for twenty hours before one gets to a non-newbie difficulty with it.  I don't expect either of those to be fixed, though both would take seconds.

Material that involves content (the linear, predictable levels with almost no randomness, the bland atmosphere that has a small fraction of the personality of D/D2, bizarre character design choices like Sheablo, generally horrible writing and story elements) aren't so easy to fix.  In fact, they're just about impossible to fix.

I agree there are things that can't be fixed anymore. The story, the lore and now the plot holes, sheablo, all of this is done. This is no surprise the atmosphere is not here, they have not been able to clone that. Listen to the music in new tristram then compare it to the one in the rogue camp act1 then...cry.
All that can be saved is gameplay, taking into account there is the rmah as priority n1 when dealing with a lot of game designs, and that it basically play against "fun".
The possibility of d3 redeeming itself is very small at this point.

Edited by brx, 11 December 2012 - 09:21 AM.

[Bagstone]

brx, on 11 December 2012 - 09:20 AM, said:

Listen to the music in new tristram then compare it to the one in the rogue camp act1 then...cry.

Err... this is sooooo subjective. None of the music in D2 actually ever brought the same feeling/atmosphere of D1 music. Just pure epic. But still I acknowledge that D2 is a better game in many ways and the unique experience was created in different ways.

Besides, what you talk about is not an objective assessment of the quality of music, but a subjective perception of a sound file paired with lots and lots of nostalgia.

Story "can't be fixed" is your opinion, which I share, but many others might not - especially those who don't have this big nostalgic feelings about Diablo. To be fair, video games are mostly targeting teenagers and people in the mid-20s, and these people haven't played D1 at all. So while I don't like the way the story turned out, I also acknowledge the fact that I'm not the main target audience for Blizzard...

[Mantius]

I agree that they can make D3 better and knowing Blizzard, they will try.  In my opinion though, they can't make it "great" without a complete refresh.  It will never be 'there' without starting from scratch in certain areas.  (Which is possible - if Blizzard is willing to admit their mistakes and spend the resources to do it...)

The following is my opinion...
3 systems need to be completely revamped from scratch:

• itemization
  
• randomized areas
  
• the auction house/drop rates

Itemization - as this has been pointed out numerous times, even in this thread ( http://imageshack.us...fographic.jpg#1 ) - I don't need to say too much more.  Items are boring, not interesting, and too specific.  It's a loot hunting game without the reward of interesting loot...  It was ok to have "main stat" type items in WoW.  Your reward is the epic boss fight and camaraderie among your party/guild.  This is Diablo though - the items themselves HAVE to be interesting...

Randomized areas - I think they went the right direction to farming Acts instead of farming single bosses.  HOWEVER, they then created new problems along the way - the game feels way too linear with the non-randomized outdoor zones and the fact that we can't jump around the game world without following the in-your-face-horribly written story ( ).  Bring randomization back to the world so that it feels like we're exploring along the way instead of already knowing exactly where we need to go all the time...

The Auction House/Drop rates - I know that Blizzard has claimed that the drop rates are not affected by what's on the Auction House at the time.  Don't worry, you won't need your tinfoil hats to read the rest of this...  My complaint is that they adjusted the drop rates BECAUSE of the fact that the Auction House simply exists.  (Granted, if they don't fix the itemization problem to begin with, this is a moot point...)  What was wrong with the D2 drop rate of sets and uniques?  I liked that I could play a character at level 1 and know within an hour, chances are good 1 set or unique will have droppped.  Just because we have access to an Auction House in D3 the drop rates need to be exponentially lower?  Where is the reward for my time?  Which manager or pencil pusher thought that idea up?  It obviously wasn't a gamer...

If 1 and 3 are addressed - I will come back and play.  Heck, if just 1 is addressed I'll probably come back...  There are other areas I would love to see addressed (skills, specialization, 1 click all items identify, etc) - but to me, the elephant in the room is itemization - and until they get that right, D3 is dead...

Edited by Mantius, 11 December 2012 - 01:20 PM.