114 replies to this topic

[Kyoob]

Only thing I found out questionable is the part where you mention buying out echoing furies, to easier sell your others (if I understood correctly).

Other then that, there is nothing wrong with what are you doing.
All the people here getting angry? You are just getting angry, because you can't buy items cheaper.
Anyways 6.000 e's not much, but making it through a game? Why not.

But I have a question, sort of legal one, is the money you get from RMAH already been taxed in some country? If not, what kind of law would make you tax that income when you technically didn't make the income in your country? I mean if I go to other country, get a job there, it makes sense not to tax it in my home country...

[Huminator]

It would be under the same law as lotteries, sport bets etc are under.. And theese thigns are not taxed here.

[synci]

Good Job, really awesome !

[WhiskeyDex420]

This is why D3 failed. Greed Greed Greed Greed Greed. Not like i am saying it is 100% the OPs fault. He was just one of the many jerks who ruined something that could have been good. More Blizzards fault for giving these failed buisness men a platform to take advantage of people who just want to play a game.

[Kyoob]

WhiskeyDex420, on 08 December 2012 - 03:56 PM, said:

This is why D3 failed. Greed Greed Greed Greed Greed. Not like i am saying it is 100% the OPs fault. He was just one of the many jerks who ruined something that could have been good. More Blizzards fault for giving these failed buisness men a platform to take advantage of people who just want to play a game.

Sure, like there wouldn't be any market even without RMAH by Blizzard. It worked just perfectly in D2. Also, you are just insulting the OP without reason, you just lost respect from here (not that you care much, probably).

At least explain how are they "taking advantage of people, who just want to play a game".

[WhiskeyDex420]

Kyoob, on 08 December 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:

WhiskeyDex420, on 08 December 2012 - 03:56 PM, said:

This is why D3 failed. Greed Greed Greed Greed Greed. Not like i am saying it is 100% the OPs fault. He was just one of the many jerks who ruined something that could have been good. More Blizzards fault for giving these failed buisness men a platform to take advantage of people who just want to play a game.

Sure, like there wouldn't be any market even without RMAH by Blizzard. It worked just perfectly in D2. Also, you are just insulting the OP without reason, you just lost respect from here (not that you care much, probably).

At least explain how are they "taking advantage of people, who just want to play a game".

Because in D2 people had to break the rules and go to a 3rd party to buy gear. It was not a part of the game and everyone who bought/sold knew that. With the RMAH, buying and selling is now part of the game. For the OP to have made 6k, others lost 6k. That's what people fail to understand when they line up to say "grats man".

Had the OP legitly farmed every piece of gear he sold, it would be a different story. he didn't though. He browsed the auction house constantly looking for idiots who were under valuing their gear, then he would buy it out and resell it for more. He is not like a traditional buisness man who buys a product in bulk, stores it, and retails it out for a profit. He is a preditor preying on the ignorance of sellers. Blizzard should have seen this coming and done something LIKE make all items bought on GAH or RMAH bound to the buyers account. That's why i say Blizzard is most to blame, for allowing the OP to do what he did.

[ballon]

WhiskeyDex420, on 08 December 2012 - 04:29 PM, said:

Blizzard should have seen this coming and done something LIKE make all items bought on GAH or RMAH bound to the buyers account. That's why i say Blizzard is most to blame, for allowing the OP to do what he did.

Without the reselling value why bother with buying stepping-stone gear? You can't resell it and it's not the piece you desire at the end. To make that work they'd need to change crafting, providing worthy reagents out of those bought items. But how to determine that 12 dps axe bought for 1000 gold is less worth than that 12 dps axe bought for 500 million? There's a large tail behind that, a lot to think through. The actual system is more transparent, easy to understand and it won't take a higher education level to get the whole grasp of it.

If someone decides to sell 5 eggs way under it's regular price because he either need space or quick cash (seeing another item he want) - where's the big deal? He got his gold, the reseller made a nice profit and Blizzard earned 15% from the RMAH transaction. Is there really anyone to blame? The reseller must do his homework, know the market. It's not like he bought ALL 12 dps axes and relisted them for 500% of it's orginal market price.

You might can argue about people spending 250€ for an virtual item while there are starving people around the globe but we're all sitting in front of our computer in our warm, cozy homes and spent 50€ on a game as well. And that's something Blizzard definately can't fix.

Edited by ballon, 08 December 2012 - 04:52 PM.

[Kyoob]

WhiskeyDex420, on 08 December 2012 - 04:29 PM, said:

Kyoob, on 08 December 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:

WhiskeyDex420, on 08 December 2012 - 03:56 PM, said:

This is why D3 failed. Greed Greed Greed Greed Greed. Not like i am saying it is 100% the OPs fault. He was just one of the many jerks who ruined something that could have been good. More Blizzards fault for giving these failed buisness men a platform to take advantage of people who just want to play a game.

Sure, like there wouldn't be any market even without RMAH by Blizzard. It worked just perfectly in D2. Also, you are just insulting the OP without reason, you just lost respect from here (not that you care much, probably).

At least explain how are they "taking advantage of people, who just want to play a game".

Because in D2 people had to break the rules and go to a 3rd party to buy gear. It was not a part of the game and everyone who bought/sold knew that. With the RMAH, buying and selling is now part of the game. For the OP to have made 6k, others lost 6k. That's what people fail to understand when they line up to say "grats man".

Had the OP legitly farmed every piece of gear he sold, it would be a different story. he didn't though. He browsed the auction house constantly looking for idiots who were under valuing their gear, then he would buy it out and resell it for more. He is not like a traditional buisness man who buys a product in bulk, stores it, and retails it out for a profit. He is a preditor preying on the ignorance of sellers. Blizzard should have seen this coming and done something LIKE make all items bought on GAH or RMAH bound to the buyers account. That's why i say Blizzard is most to blame, for allowing the OP to do what he did.

That's your opinion, which I don't agree with to some extent, but that's the point of forums - discussion. I just wanted to ask you to keep it civilized. Calling each other jerks wont help anyone and it might make you look, well, not good. Also it may sometimes start flame wars.

For me, a bussinessman, in essence, buys cheap and sells expensive, thus creating profit. People didn't lose that 6k, they willingly paid 6k. He did not steal it, because people are able to see the price beforehand. Also I don't think his prices were high, it's just that some people don't know the value of items.

If everyone was aware of the market and every item would be priced correctly, within a reasonable margin, then there would be no snipers etc. I still don't see how it ruins game experience for the others. AH in D3 is a market, and as any other market, the prices are driven by supply and demand. If the prices were ridiculous, nobody would buy it. Ofcourse, monopolization can happen and is a bad thing (punishable by law in real-life market) but it is really hard, if not impossible, to pull off in D3, as the number of items is very high.

So, I don't view the OP as villain, I think people listing items on extremely low prices are only hurting themselfs. And that is not Blizzard's fault.

[WhiskeyDex420]

ballon, on 08 December 2012 - 04:47 PM, said:

WhiskeyDex420, on 08 December 2012 - 04:29 PM, said:

Blizzard should have seen this coming and done something LIKE make all items bought on GAH or RMAH bound to the buyers account. That's why i say Blizzard is most to blame, for allowing the OP to do what he did.

Without the reselling value why bother with buying stepping-stone gear? You can't resell it and it's not the piece you desire at the end. To make that work they'd need to change crafting, providing worthy reagents out of those bought items. But how to determine that 12 dps axe bought for 1000 gold is less worth than that 12 dps axe bought for 500 million? There's a large tail behind that, a lot to think through. The actual system is more transparent, easy to understand and it won't take a higher education level to get the whole grasp of it.

If someone decides to sell 5 eggs way under it's regular price because he either need space or quick cash (seeing another item he want) - where's the big deal? He got his gold, the reseller made a nice profit and Blizzard earned 15% from the RMAH transaction. Is there really anyone to blame? The reseller must do his homework, know the market. It's not like he bought ALL 12 dps axes and relisted them for 500% of it's orginal market price.

You might can argue about people spending 250€ for an virtual item while there are starving people around the globe but we're all sitting in front of our computer in our warm, cozy homes and spent 50€ on a game as well. And that's something Blizzard definately can't fix.

They wouldn't have had to do anything different. The market would have adjusted so perfectly to bind on buy. Nothing aside from Good Game Godly Gear would be on the RMAH, and it would be extreme expensive. Everything else would be sold cheap on the GAH. You would have no flippers driving the prices up to insane sick amounts. The 75mil mempo with no crit would be 100k or something. You would get next to nothing for 99.9% of your drops, but you could mostly always find a small upgrade for next to nothing. The godly gear would be end game. You slightly get upgrades pretty much every time you play, very small. You hope to find that one gg item, or save save save for it. people who want to p2p would have to pay out their ass. Game would have thrived.

[Kyoob]

Making items bind to account would probably only increase the prices, as items could not be recycled. Demand would be the same, supply would be lower, thus prices must be higher.

Your idea of flippers driving prices is flawed as it is actually the buyer who sets a price.

[ballon]

WhiskeyDex420, on 08 December 2012 - 04:57 PM, said:

They wouldn't have had to do anything different. The market would have adjusted so perfectly to bind on buy.

My guess? We would have adjusted and stopped using the AH for all worthwhile trades, went back to forum trades as we did successfully in D2. Diablo is about items, it always was it always will. Finding and trading items. If you just want to find upgrades for yourself you're free to play selffound but don't make restrictions on anyone just because it's not your personal way to enjoy it. But rebuilding the whole AH from scratch just because of some flippers? Sounds unreasonable to me.

Edited by ballon, 08 December 2012 - 05:16 PM.

[TheSeanis]

Psychatog, on 07 December 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

His gloating is great in that it has split the community in a very positive way. I now know all the people that are incompetent hipsters that don't understand the basics of economics or capitalism, and thus who to avoid talking to, as I may get infected with their stupid.

I think its a pretty basic concept that almost everyone here can follow. In fact, if everyone had a spare $1000 or so laying around they could do quite a bit for themselves in the AH just through buying and reselling alone. That specifically is all I want addressed. Sure, if you trade for some stuff or find something and want to sell it, go for it! But by all means, lets get a grip on this repetitive and perpetual buying and reselling thing. It sucks you have to draw the line somewhere, if you wanted to buy an item and later decide you dont want it and sell it. The issue is that people abuse that. Moreover, people go to great lengths to corner the market, which is unfair. Roughly $8,000 is a hefty chunk of dough, anyone who says otherwise clearly has no concept of money, truly, I can appreciate the effort that was put in. However, I think this sort of thing is getting out of hand.

edit into 2nd part

Also, as an interesting corollary to bind on purchase, I think that would encourage people to trade more, if they saw a nice deal and sniped it, go into the trade chat, forums, what have you, and try and trade it for something. I know everyone feels cool with billions of gold... But I'd rather have 50 million gold and be able to buy more with it than having to spend 1 billion gold (seriously, what the fuck) to upgrade my shit one piece at a time.

Edited by TheSeanis, 08 December 2012 - 05:30 PM.

[TheSeanis]

Kyoob, on 08 December 2012 - 05:09 PM, said:

Making items bind to account would probably only increase the prices, as items could not be recycled. Demand would be the same, supply would be lower, thus prices must be higher.

Your idea of flippers driving prices is flawed as it is actually the buyer who sets a price.

I actually disagree with this statement because items have no actual value in this game other than their relative value like some housing markets (an items value is most significantly impacted by the prices of its neighbors) This means that the value will have a fluctuating value depending on how the supply is impacted on a day to day basis. By removing all of the cheaper competition and reselling them for even higher prices it makes your items look attractive, sure it can dig into your profit, but you're effectively eliminating your competition almost ensuring the sale of your item, and once its gone, you can re-price all of the items you threw in.


You can argue that a buyer sets the price that he is willing to pay for, but the seller and the structure of the AH at large offer a lot of room for manipulation. If a buyer says "I really want to get a nice weapon, I'm going to get 100m gold and get the best item I can" because of the way that bots and people alike manipulate the prices his money just wont go as far as it used to. That being said, the quality of the item he could get for all of that 100m will vary LARGELY on a day to day basis.

[WhiskeyDex420]

Kyoob, on 08 December 2012 - 05:09 PM, said:

Making items bind to account would probably only increase the prices, as items could not be recycled. Demand would be the same, supply would be lower, thus prices must be higher.

Your idea of flippers driving prices is flawed as it is actually the buyer who sets a price.

If that was the only factor, you would be onto something concrete. People pay $200 for an item because they expect to be able to resell it for close to $200 when they are done with it. Take the resell aspect away and they are going to have a different look at cost.  You just got to focused on thinking about how the supply would go down, to relize how much more the demand would drop. Even more important than supply and demand for this is accept value. These are virtual items, they only hold the value the community accepts.

[Krat0s]

Well,you made a really nice profit there thought these days making profit is harder but backthen was way more easy...

[Huminator]

The difference betwen now and back then is, back then you could get away with selling garbage on rmah. This is not the case today, if you sell the correct items, they will sell at a decent speed. Its all about getting those items to sell. I get em from the gold ah via sniping. If there isnt anything to sell, i just sell the gold instead. There is obvious more bang the buck investing gold in items, to sell the items. But if there is not items to take, i sell the gold instead. Gold in my purse is useless anyways. And gold keep coming in a steady pace via flipping.

[zeroRooter]

kk  bro, i'll make a deal with you

send me 5k $ and i will give you free Cookies ^.^

[patricio]

That's beautiful bro, teach me

[Markco_Polo]

I don't know if people here remember me anymore, but I made a post a while back about how you could easily make $1,000 in the first month of Diablo 3. I even boasted that it would be possible to earn $25 per hour playing the game.

It has tens of thousands of views, and eventually was removed from the site because public opinion was such that I was lying to try and make money. In actuality, I was trying to open up people's minds to what was really going to be possible.

People like this guy have blown my predictions out of the water and enjoy making money off the same people who said it would be impossible to earn this much.

Congratulations to you on your 6,000 Euros, and I hope to see you around my blog to share your ideas
!

[Huminator]

Thank you. For me the whole AH stuff, is just like a mini game within the game. Ive made another 425 euro since i started this thread. Again just by flipping things, purchasing things on gold ah and re-selling it on rmah. Else selling gold as it comes in via flips and snipes. Could have made more, but decided to toss 399 million after, the most like best neck for wd farming.

Edited by Huminator, 13 December 2012 - 10:53 AM.